Business Thread: Your Wishlist for paysites.

[Paul Markham]

The idea for this was given to me by another thread about what affiliates want.

So post here what you think the guys surfing and signing up (And paying for all this.) want from us guys.

And tell me more then "Exclusive"

Come on, tell us what can we do as an industry to improve our image with our customers?

[scottybuzz]

sleep with the customers

[quiet]

exclusive, and sleep with customers.

[2HousePlague]

Fewer threads about them --

2hp

[2HousePlague]

Jeez, I was just kidding. He didn't have to storm out like that...

"Come back, Paul!!!!

2hp

[Antonio]

well, many sponsors laugh when I say this, but I'm going to say anyway:

NON-watermarked content - I don't want your exclusive pics and movies, but if you can get shitload of 'filler' non-watermarked content for your webmasters you'll get a sale or two !!!

[Matt_WildCash]

Originally Posted by Antonio

well, many sponsors laugh when I say this, but I'm going to say anyway:

NON-watermarked content - I don't want your exclusive pics and movies, but if you can get shitload of 'filler' non-watermarked content for your webmasters you'll get a sale or two !!!

What is the advantage to the affilate to have unwatermarked content?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by 2HousePlague

Jeez, I was just kidding. He didn't have to storm out like that...

"Come back, Paul!!!!

2hp

I went out for the day.

Seems few have a clue what the surfer needs to make him happier.

Many know what they need but who knows what the surfers need in 2006.

[psili]

- A lot of quality video; large & long data stream, not filmed in a shitty hotel room on grainy film, offering multiple format choices, etc.

- A decent UI that enables easy access to content. One where you don't have to think about how to get to where you want and is not peppered with third party content that doesn't meet the criteria for quality the host site should be offering.

- A searchable library of video & / or photos that actually works

- Updated daily

- Ability for user to store favorites, ability to rate and comment on content, and if possible, engage is a community experience in so much the host site thinks a community could be evolved ( i.e. try forums, chats, shareable favorites if the community of members you have will partake in such things).

- Clear, understandable, efficient and working ways to join and cancel.

- Email support with a decent turn around for answers ( say < 24 hours for business days ).

- A members area that matches or exceeds all expectations any selling / pitch materials claimed.

- Basically, no bullshit, give me what I was fucking sold and more members area that I'll be rebilled for at least 1 & 1/2 months.

[spacedog]

Originally Posted by Matt_WildCash

What is the advantage to the affilate to have unwatermarked content?

watermarked content generates alot more type in sales off galleries than it does clicked traffic through the reflink.

[frank7799]

Originally Posted by Matt_WildCash

What is the advantage to the affilate to have unwatermarked content?

No branding for a specific sponsor, room left for own webmaster branding. But if I would be a sponsor and would give out free content, my content would be watermarked as well - for branding of course.

[2HousePlague]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I went out for the day.

Seems few have a clue what the surfer needs to make him happier.

Many know what they need but who knows what the surfers need in 2006.

Paul, you drip wisdom --

2hp

[psili]

Originally Posted by 2HousePlague

Paul, you drip wisdom --

2hp

He also seems to think for 2006+ rather than try and repackage 2000 stuff like a lot of programs seem to do.

[HizAzPhun]

Originally Posted by psili

- A lot of quality video; large & long data stream, not filmed in a shitty hotel room on grainy film, offering multiple format choices, etc....

Good post psili. And make sure to make those full length videos downloadable as well as streaming and let the user pick.

If you are worried about your content getting stolen, drm it and have a sales-effective license acquisition page which will not only help you retain members but potentially bring in new ones.

[2HousePlague]

Originally Posted by psili

He also seems to think for 2006+ rather than try and repackage 2000 stuff like a lot of programs seem to do.

Come to Vegas. If you'll give me a few minutes, I'd love to share some thoughts on packaging and re-purposing for multi-lateral profit --

2hp

[psili]

Originally Posted by 2HousePlague

Come to Vegas. If you'll give me a few minutes, I'd love to share some thoughts on packaging and re-purposing for multi-lateral profit --

2hp

I'm sure we could throw down a bunch of verb on what to do with what. Unfortunately, I won't be attending a show any time soon but let's leave this discussion open-ended for a good day in the sun, on a laptop and ICQ / IM / phone windows open for some interstate brain dumping.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Antonio

well, many sponsors laugh when I say this, but I'm going to say anyway:

NON-watermarked content - I don't want your exclusive pics and movies, but if you can get shitload of 'filler' non-watermarked content for your webmasters you'll get a sale or two !!!

Let me see if I have this right, I give you a "Shitload" of content non watermarked and you give me two sales.

When you finish with that pipe pass it over please.

Seriously I will give you an affiliates set non water marked for ever two sales you send me, on top of your 60% or Rev Share payout.

The worse thing affiliates ever did was take free content, it reduced them to little but low paid submitters of adverts for the sponsor, it tied the traffic the content generated to the sponsor. it increased the number of affiliates and "TGP" type sites ten fold and it increased the amount of free content on the Internet.

[DaddyHalbucks]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The idea for this was given to me by another thread about what affiliates want.

So post here what you think the guys surfing and signing up (And paying for all this.) want from us guys.

And tell me more then "Exclusive"

Come on, tell us what can we do as an industry to improve our image with our customers?

A very insightful question.

But, you are asking the wrong group. It's like asking the attacking lion how the dying zebra felt.

It might be worth doing a focus group on adult customers, run by an expert. Alot could be learned.

I can look into costs if people are interested. Perhaps a group of us could split the costs.

[bigdog]

Originally Posted by scottybuzz

sleep with the customers

Why should the consumer have all the fun, sleep with webmasters also

[psili]

Simple questionnaires in a member's area could also do it.

I'd be interested to see an aggregation of answers between many different sponsor programs in regard to the same user question form. I'd be willing to bet, regardless of niche the quantitative data would be similar.

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

A very insightful question.

But, you are asking the wrong group. It's like asking the attacking lion how the dying zebra felt.

It might be worth doing a focus group on adult customers, run by an expert. Alot could be learned.

I can look into costs if people are interested. Perhaps a group of us could split the costs.

[PinkElectric]

Originally Posted by scottybuzz

sleep with the customers

[jayeff]

Not by any means comprehensive, but here goes...

Most of us - whether or not we realize it - are trying to convince the customer that we can deliver his fantasy. Of course we cannot, so inevitably our customers will be disappointed. The Playb*y clubs certainly made mistakes, but one of the things they did very well was to create a fantasy which they could deliver. Ho*ters do much the same thing.

To bring that around to the customers' point of view, the most basic thing is to deliver what we promise, but sites also need individual personalities, themes, whatever you want to call it, so that they can be distinguished one from another and enjoyed for their own sake. "Thousands of pics", "hours of full-screen video", "every perversion know to man", etc... these are elements of the fantasies people seek in porn, but not the fantasy itself and if they are not molded into a whole they will disappoint. Well-done solo sites and some fetish sites, by their nature do provide a deliverable fantasy and that is a major reason for their success. Sites like MET Art also have a very clear theme/style which, as much as that indefinable thing called "quality" is why they roll on, year after year while many other sites last only as long as the current flavor of the month.

Second, we need to define our market because if you do not know to whom you are selling, you cannot focus your marketing. To mention Playb*y again, it aimed for the (upper) middle class, an economically attractive group, but a relatively small one. H*stler did a brilliant job of positioning itself for the working man, guys with less money to spend but far more numerous. But most porn sites are simply out there, making no attempt to define themselves or their audience clearly. As a result, online porn has largely ended up like those sleazy strip clubs in London's Soho, where the girls pop in and out of the back doors of the different "clubs" to do their shows.

When the West-end pubs empty out there are always guys who have had too many drinks willing to believe the doormen outside these dives who promise "the girls show everything inside guv". But if you want me to spend $30-$50 each and every month I want to be getting something I can enjoy sober.

Last for today, a big appeal of the 'Net is its potential for interactivity while at the same time, we collectively deal with millions of customers and totally lack the feedback we would normally benefit from in almost any other sales environment. We base our businesses almost entirely on assumptions - they buy it, they must want it - but that is very dangerous, particularly since for most of the past 10 years demand has far outweighed supply.

As a customer I want to be able to get back quickly to the pics and movies I have enjoyed most, so favorites definitely. I'm not sure I can be bothered to fill in ratings and so on, but if you as a webmaster cannot track what your members are viewing most, tune your content and layout accordingly, well I guess you are in the wrong business.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

A very insightful question.

But, you are asking the wrong group. It's like asking the attacking lion how the dying zebra felt.

It might be worth doing a focus group on adult customers, run by an expert. Alot could be learned.

I can look into costs if people are interested. Perhaps a group of us could split the costs.

Good idea, but do we know what the customer wants, well enough to supply his needs or are we more interested in ours.

Maybe attending more to the surfers needs we might not be converting them at a rate of 1:1000.

Will try it on the tour, because once they are inside the site it's too late it's all about what "MY MEMBERS" want and not the general surfer. Who else wants to help me organise this, well I can organise it but who would like to put links to the questionnaire on their sites. It will not be linked to anything else and all info will be shared by those participating.

[jayeff]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

questionnaire...

Just bear in mind that the Edsel was one of the biggest automotive flops ever and it was produced specifically to provide what car buyers had told Ford they wanted.

It's no simple matter to construct surveys such that you are told the truth, rather than what people know they should say or you want to hear. If you want the exercise to be of value, you really need to talk to someone with knowledge in that area.

[gooddomains]

interesting reading

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by bigdog

Why should the consumer have all the fun, sleep with webmasters also

Any webmaster who sends me 100 sign ups a month will get laid. So that's them sorted.

Now back to surfers.

[Garou]

Originally Posted by jayeff

Not by any means comprehensive, but here goes...

Most of us - whether or not we realize it - are trying to convince the customer that we can deliver his fantasy. Of course we cannot, so inevitably our customers will be disappointed. The Playb*y clubs certainly made mistakes, but one of the things they did very well was to create a fantasy which they could deliver. Ho*ters do much the same thing.

To bring that around to the customers' point of view, the most basic thing is to deliver what we promise, but sites also need individual personalities, themes, whatever you want to call it, so that they can be distinguished one from another and enjoyed for their own sake. "Thousands of pics", "hours of full-screen video", "every perversion know to man", etc... these are elements of the fantasies people seek in porn, but not the fantasy itself and if they are not molded into a whole they will disappoint. Well-done solo sites and some fetish sites, by their nature do provide a deliverable fantasy and that is a major reason for their success. Sites like MET Art also have a very clear theme/style which, as much as that indefinable thing called "quality" is why they roll on, year after year while many other sites last only as long as the current flavor of the month.

Second, we need to define our market because if you do not know to whom you are selling, you cannot focus your marketing. To mention Playb*y again, it aimed for the (upper) middle class, an economically attractive group, but a relatively small one. H*stler did a brilliant job of positioning itself for the working man, guys with less money to spend but far more numerous. But most porn sites are simply out there, making no attempt to define themselves or their audience clearly. As a result, online porn has largely ended up like those sleazy strip clubs in London's Soho, where the girls pop in and out of the back doors of the different "clubs" to do their shows.

When the West-end pubs empty out there are always guys who have had too many drinks willing to believe the doormen outside these dives who promise "the girls show everything inside guv". But if you want me to spend $30-$50 each and every month I want to be getting something I can enjoy sober.

Last for today, a big appeal of the 'Net is its potential for interactivity while at the same time, we collectively deal with millions of customers and totally lack the feedback we would normally benefit from in almost any other sales environment. We base our businesses almost entirely on assumptions - they buy it, they must want it - but that is very dangerous, particularly since for most of the past 10 years demand has far outweighed supply.

As a customer I want to be able to get back quickly to the pics and movies I have enjoyed most, so favorites definitely. I'm not sure I can be bothered to fill in ratings and so on, but if you as a webmaster cannot track what your members are viewing most, tune your content and layout accordingly, well I guess you are in the wrong business.

Any real samples would make it more practical, though there are very good points here. For example u say:
"But most porn sites are simply out there, making no attempt to define themselves or their audience clearly" - name them, and name the ones that did and can u proove their success and the fact that what you said played the major role?
Metart must be great but not for all affiliates. One can be happy with topbucks/pimproll/tcg and send 2-5 sales a day to their sites or convert 1:150 on galleries (i know they count uniques though, but u know what i mean) while be at 1:6000 on metart for example. To top it off, is there always a perfect dependance between the factors you mentioned and the revenue an affiliate can generate promoting a certain site?
The top record i had with an aff program was FatPockets (pps and even revshare) though their sites were close to crap. And the free content they provided was shit.

[Garou]

sorry for emphasizing affiliate-sponsor link rather than paysite-customer

[jayeff]

Originally Posted by Garou

is there always a perfect dependance between the factors you mentioned and the revenue an affiliate can generate promoting a certain site?

The thread asked for answers from the customer's point of view: not the affiliate's. Okay, so I cheated a bit, a little like a lawyer will make a speech to a witness and tack "Did you?" on the end. Still, there was no mention of affiliates in the question or my answer.

In addition, you are trying to create a direct cause/effect link between specific aspects of how a site does/does not operate and affiliate results. It cannot be done, because there are simply too many other factors in the way: how many affiliates are selling a particular site relative to the demand for it; are a particular affiliate's traffic sources and sales techniques appropriate for that site; etc.

And honestly, except in so far as a site's overall success might have a marginal impact, I don't think the points I made would affect affiliates one way or another. The common point was that we are reaching the end of being able to simply stick up a collection of content loosely labelled "porn" and make instant fortunes. New sites in particular are going to have to start applying the marketing lessons learned by other industries from here on in. They are very well documented: it's just a matter of time and a question of who goes first.

[Paul Markham]

Giving it a bump.

[MaddCaz]

one that sells live pussy

[Paul Markham]

Great post identifying a lot of problems.

Originally Posted by jayeff

Not by any means comprehensive, but here goes...

Most of us - whether or not we realize it - are trying to convince the customer that we can deliver his fantasy. Of course we cannot, so inevitably our customers will be disappointed. The Playb*y clubs certainly made mistakes, but one of the things they did very well was to create a fantasy which they could deliver. Ho*ters do much the same thing.

To bring that around to the customers' point of view, the most basic thing is to deliver what we promise, but sites also need individual personalities, themes, whatever you want to call it, so that they can be distinguished one from another and enjoyed for their own sake. "Thousands of pics", "hours of full-screen video", "every perversion know to man", etc... these are elements of the fantasies people seek in porn, but not the fantasy itself and if they are not molded into a whole they will disappoint. Well-done solo sites and some fetish sites, by their nature do provide a deliverable fantasy and that is a major reason for their success. Sites like MET Art also have a very clear theme/style which, as much as that indefinable thing called "quality" is why they roll on, year after year while many other sites last only as long as the current flavor of the month.

Second, we need to define our market because if you do not know to whom you are selling, you cannot focus your marketing. To mention Playb*y again, it aimed for the (upper) middle class, an economically attractive group, but a relatively small one. H*stler did a brilliant job of positioning itself for the working man, guys with less money to spend but far more numerous. But most porn sites are simply out there, making no attempt to define themselves or their audience clearly. As a result, online porn has largely ended up like those sleazy strip clubs in London's Soho, where the girls pop in and out of the back doors of the different "clubs" to do their shows.

When the West-end pubs empty out there are always guys who have had too many drinks willing to believe the doormen outside these dives who promise "the girls show everything inside guv". But if you want me to spend $30-$50 each and every month I want to be getting something I can enjoy sober.

Last for today, a big appeal of the 'Net is its potential for interactivity while at the same time, we collectively deal with millions of customers and totally lack the feedback we would normally benefit from in almost any other sales environment. We base our businesses almost entirely on assumptions - they buy it, they must want it - but that is very dangerous, particularly since for most of the past 10 years demand has far outweighed supply.

As a customer I want to be able to get back quickly to the pics and movies I have enjoyed most, so favorites definitely. I'm not sure I can be bothered to fill in ratings and so on, but if you as a webmaster cannot track what your members are viewing most, tune your content and layout accordingly, well I guess you are in the wrong business.

[Paul Markham]

In an industry that converts as low as 1:1000 do we need to think more about what our customers want?

[Garou]

Originally Posted by jayeff

The thread asked for answers from the customer's point of view: not the affiliate's. Okay, so I cheated a bit, a little like a lawyer will make a speech to a witness and tack "Did you?" on the end. Still, there was no mention of affiliates in the question or my answer.

In addition, you are trying to create a direct cause/effect link between specific aspects of how a site does/does not operate and affiliate results. It cannot be done, because there are simply too many other factors in the way: how many affiliates are selling a particular site relative to the demand for it; are a particular affiliate's traffic sources and sales techniques appropriate for that site; etc.

yep, i've mentioned that in a couple of posts above. sorry, just wanted to stress on that too

Originally Posted by jayeff

And honestly, except in so far as a site's overall success might have a marginal impact, I don't think the points I made would affect affiliates one way or another. The common point was that we are reaching the end of being able to simply stick up a collection of content loosely labelled "porn" and make instant fortunes. New sites in particular are going to have to start applying the marketing lessons learned by other industries from here on in. They are very well documented: it's just a matter of time and a question of who goes first.

So who went first (if any) in your point of view or you just declare that things will go other way in the nearest future?

As for now what common i see in successful sites is:
1. money/skills/money&skills (they can be quite aggressive in ad campaigns to brand their name, to find affiliates and so on. Otherwise you can be successful too but when?)
2. quantity (they have a bunch of content named porn, frequent updates, lots of promo content and so on)
3. quality (nice model who attracts surfers, exclusive and stuff)
4. live pussy (posted about this above)
5. personality (nice model who gets paid no matter what happens and works hard)

I can name the new sponsors that seem to be successful among surfers, webmasters or both (which is the goal) 'cause they meet those criteria. One thing i want to add is that it's not the site being popular&successful (like it was before) but it's rather management that makes it popular and successful nowadays.

[$5 submissions]

Why not a full user customized paysite? ie., they pick the content, they pick the layout, they pick the delivery mechanism, they pick the price packages, etc. CHOICE + INTERACTIVITY + QUALITY CONTENT = RETENTION?

[Garou]

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

Why not a full user customized paysite? ie., they pick the content, they pick the layout, they pick the delivery mechanism, they pick the price packages, etc. CHOICE + INTERACTIVITY + QUALITY CONTENT = RETENTION?

i doubt that

[jayeff]

Originally Posted by Garou

So who went first (if any) in your point of view or you just declare that things will go other way in the nearest future?

I have no idea who "went first". There are sites as different as MET Art and Nawa Shibari which, because one is themed very tightly and the other very narrowly niched, could go on doing what they are doing for years. But observing sites from the outside, it is impossible to know what decision processes shape them and whether they include any of the factors about which I wrote.

As to the "nearest future", even young industries like this do not change overnight. You can only really appreciate how much change actually takes place if you compare the beginning and end of, say, a five-year period. Earlier I was attempting to illustrate the kind of changes we can expect over the next 5-10 years. I'm not anticipating a sudden revolution

What I was attempting to get across was that we have pretty much wrung out the competitive value of most of the techniques we have applied to date (as regards customers and affiliates). Consolidation and investment can extend their lives and those who have sufficient momentum may also be able to carry on for years using those techniques. Otherwise people who have hit a ceiling and those who want to break into the business without facing established competitors head on at their own game, really don't have a choice except to find new ways to succeed.

You can ignore the specifics that I dreamt up. I was really saying nothing more than that to date we have barely scratched the surface of Marketing 101 and that must inevitably change as people seek a competitive edge. The five components of a successful site that you listed are all well and good, but anyone can provide them who chooses to do so. Packaging, presentation and pricing are the things which ultimately separate one business from another.

[Paul Markham]

This is a revolving market, keep the surfer on the merry go round because he likes the ride and we all make more money. Disappoint him and we all lose.

[gandalfuy]

Originally Posted by scottybuzz

sleep with the customers

that would be nice.

[DaddyHalbucks]

Originally Posted by psili

Simple questionnaires in a member's area could also do it.

I'd be interested to see an aggregation of answers between many different sponsor programs in regard to the same user question form. I'd be willing to bet, regardless of niche the quantitative data would be similar.

A questionaire will NOT work.

The focus group sessions that I am talking about take the better part of a day, at LEAST 3 hours before the customer starts opening up about what they REALLY want.

[Antonio]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Let me see if I have this right, I give you a "Shitload" of content non watermarked and you give me two sales.

When you finish with that pipe pass it over please.

Seriously I will give you an affiliates set non water marked for ever two sales you send me, on top of your 60% or Rev Share payout.

The worse thing affiliates ever did was take free content, it reduced them to little but low paid submitters of adverts for the sponsor, it tied the traffic the content generated to the sponsor. it increased the number of affiliates and "TGP" type sites ten fold and it increased the amount of free content on the Internet.

ok, since you're slow kid, I'll spell it out for you

1. Go to any TGP or Link LIst ans see how much of the content there is watermarked - what is it 10 %?

2. 80% of your affiliates have no other means of generating traffic than TGPs or link lists

3. If you give them UN-watermarked content they have I'd say about 80% higher chance of getting listed than if you give them watermarked content

4. Of course if you're on a very tight budget you CAN NOT afford to give your webmasters UN-watermarked content

5. Did I make it simple enough for you???????

6. Please read my original post again - I DON"T WANT YOUR EXCLUSIVE PICS/MOVIES - for you to do that it would be suicidal

hope that helps

[Antonio]

and as for the I give you 2 sales a month comment that simply shows that you have NO IDEA how this business works

the best affilate of the BIGGEST programs brings them about $5000.00 per month, which means that thay make their millions because they have THOUSANDS of SMALL affiliates, not because they have 5 affiliates that make them $100 000.00 per month

I hope that was not too difficult for you to grasp either

[Paul Markham]

I hear what you're saying. The problem I have is I'm not giving my content out for free without watermarks on it.

Especially to go on TGP sites.

And as for not being accepted I call TOTAL BULLSHIT. You forget I have people submitting for me. I will show you tomorrow the galleries with our coded CCBILL link in them.

In fact can't remember a refusal based on a watermark. Or maybe our content is so good they put up with the watermark. Yes you do have a good point.

Like I said 1 free affiliates set for every two sign ups plus your payout.

I will think it through and might have a section for those who proved themselves in some way to get un watermarked old content, but the new stuff stays watermarked.

[shiloh451]

Guess I should jump in here since this is supposed to be my area of expertise.

I feel like the TGP/MGP gallery formula has evolved into the something like the old carnivals, (man does that date me!)that used to come into town. Walk down the center aisle and all the hawkers are yelling and waving to come see the wonders of his wares.

Sensory overload, can't trust that any link you click on is going to take you where you thought you were supposed to go.

One of my pet peeves is to hit a link on a TGP and end up on another TGP. When I surf I alway open a new window for this reason. It is not unusual for me to open 8-10 windows and they are all TGPs. I understand to advantage for the TGP owners PR rating, but it doesn't do anything for me as a surfer but piss me off.

What do I want as a surfer.

1.Don't treat me like a moron with a CC in one hand and my dick in the other who will fall for any flashy tour.

2.Deliver what you promise. I personally usually only join a site for 1-3 months find the specific content I want and add it to my collection. If its a good site that updates regularly I will come back in 6-9 month and join again to get the new stuff.

3.NO FUCKING CONSOLES. Especially ones that defeat my blocker. That is just bad business it, rings my shyster alarm, and I am gone forever. I mentioned this in another thread. My personal take on this is, you may make some sales off the consoles, but how do you know how many sales you have lost for good? Its a matter of respect. You want me to trust that you have the real deal and get my $$. That is no the way to earn it.

4.Pricing. Would you rather have me for a month or so at $25-$35 per month or maybe an extended stay for $10. I was a menber of a site for 3 yrs. They had a nice sized update once a week and charged $9. It was cheap enough and the updates were big enough that the cost was a not issue.

5.IMHO the real growth area the web is high bandwidth. If I can afford that then I can probably afford a descent machine also. Don't just cater to the lowest common denominator. Offer me mulitple choices for the content. Offer me more than 800 X 600 and the 3" X 3" vid window. Someone told me in San Deigo that 250,000 people were joining the web either every week or every month and that was mostly dialup. Isn't that growth mostly overseas where it can be hard to collect?

6.DRM really bad idea. As soon as I discover that is what you are offering I will not join. Besides it can't stop me from doing screen capture so what's the point?

7.I have also discovered as the years go by my taste in porn also changes. The things that used to excite are common place. I mean really, who gets turned on by just seeing a bare breast anymore? Hair used to be the norm and shaved was the niche. Now? Even Playma*es are shaved full frontal. So the formula that was cutting edge yesterday will not work today. I my mind that means more niche based content, but again with quality and quantity always a main criteria.

8.The personal touch. Webcams, solo sites with TRUE personal involvement, and community based sites will always be around.

For some of the newer webmasters,I guess yall have noticed that none of things I have mentioned can be accomplished by any get rich quick scheme that I know of.

I'm sure there are more points I could cover but this is gettin kinda long, so.

[Paul Markham]

Great post Shiloh. Well other swill see it different.

1. So very true, if a sponsor treated an affiliate like some treat surfers he would go broke.

2. One of the best things for this industry would be CC processors saying sites have to state exactly what the customer is getting for his money. And no small print.

3. Why do people use them? They piss off more than they convert and if the original tour did not convert them fix it. Offering an alternative site in the tour or on exit is polite and accepted. Beating pop up blockers is downright insulting and rude. The surfer installed or enabled the blocker and you think you can convert more than you piss off, please where did you learn that? Affiliates should be asking why his original tour does not work and is he the kind of sponsor they should be encouraging.

4. Not everyone wants to spend $30 to jerk off, what does the industry offer him, free porn and PPV. The problem with free porn is the industry does not compete with it. I will not start on the number of sites simply not worth $30.

5. Agreed 100%. While we are so keen on converting the guy on an old computer, small screen and dial up connection we are losing the people who are prepared to spend money. Again another idiot idea from those grasping for sales. Affiliates think about it, if the guy is trying to convert at the lowest level are you losing out at the highest level?

6. Surfers want to download to their computers, let them. It's the "Buyer is always right" mentality. Or tell them in the tour, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DOWNLOAD THE CONTENT TO YOUR COMPUTER.

Good post.

[DaddyHalbucks]

Originally Posted by jayeff

Just bear in mind that the Edsel was one of the biggest automotive flops ever and it was produced specifically to provide what car buyers had told Ford they wanted.

It's no simple matter to construct surveys such that you are told the truth, rather than what people know they should say or you want to hear. If you want the exercise to be of value, you really need to talk to someone with knowledge in that area.

Exactly... what they *TOLD* Ford they wanted.

A deep focus group doesn't listen to what customers say they want. It finds out what they really want.

Look at the PT Cruiser. It was a junky car on the merits. Customers would have told you they wanted something else. But it resonated with American's sense of nostalgia and need for independence, and became a surprise hit.

Yes, an expert is recommended.

[Madame0120]

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Great post, partner!

[shiloh451]

Thanky Madame.