Porn UNION !! discuss..

[SmokeyTheBear]

Why dont we have a porn union ? There are a few but they dont seem to have any huge influence on how things are being run or protect us from the mainstream thrashing we get on a daily basis..

Porn runs the internet and it has for years , it got us where we are today , and without it , the internet would just be a clever little calculator ( because we funded it indirectly )

We can clean up the internet alot better than the government and make alot more money for ourselves by having a voice..

Unions also have there downfalls, so i was hoping if anyone else had any brainstorming on this you wanted to share im all ears.

I think we could do a VERY effective job of increasing revenue and getting alot more respect on the net if we stood together..

Now of course one of the major hurdles is , how do we get a majority of webmasters to agree on anything

Would you join a porn union ?

[chupacabra]

damn, no replies? aye aye, a longshot perhaps but would be a good thing for us paysite owners regardless (not to mention the talent themselves)..

[pornguy]

I think that it could be a great idea. BUT. We would need at least 85% of the people.

[Libertine]

I'd join.

[Pleasurepays]

all the idiot scumbags of the world should get together to form a club and make themselves an easier target.

thats a good idea.



NOT!

[Theo The Theologian]

Bless you Brother Smokey. I fear there are far too many scabs in porn to make a union viable.

On a side note is cheese just another way to force us to get more calcium?

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

all the idiot scumbags of the world should get together to form a club and make themselves an easier target.

thats a good idea.



NOT!

ok we add a sign that says " no idiot scumbags"
infact that would be our motto

[NoWhErE]

Its an AWESOME idea bro, but as mentioned, it'd be hard to form a union for an industry compromised largely of low life scum.

Now... if Porn was a GUILD, that would be a different question.

For those that don't know, GUILDS were mostly popular during the renaissance period. There were guilds for alot of different practices, like painter's guild, carpenter's guild, etc.

And if you wanted to practice your trade, you needed to be accepted by one of the guilds. They had standards, and you needed to be sponsored by a member, etc etc. It was tough to get into, but provided quality members.

And if someone decided to practice a trade without being part of a guild, they were hunted down by the guild and austrasized from the community. And this was legal practice, Guilds had dominion over their practice.


The porn industry, imo, could use such a system

[NoWhErE]

But then it all comes down to that one eternal question : Who will police the police?

Catch my drift?

[devilspost]

just create one to shake down stupid noobs and dogooders ;)

[L-Pink]

Smokey,

On the net there is no face-to-face between customers and merchants, or accused and accusers .... this allows the dishonest and weak to engage in practices that would have angry customers, police, and ass-kickers crowding a traditional retail operation.

Don't worry about invading personal property and it's operation or, defending obviously predatory money making schemes ... WHY?
Because they can pretend they're honest, pretend they are someone important, get the last word in, while hiding weakly behind email customer service and TOS legalize.

KNOWING IT DOESN'T PASS THE SMELL TEST

Stand face to face and tell a customer he has to pay for a "free trial" that he doesn't want. (just a current example)

[iwantchixx]

A union in any industry is a BAD thing.

Prices for services/employment get way out of hand and cause companies that should be thriving to never grow more. As well, puts a lot of people out of work while the non-union workers get all the work at stupid low prices.

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by NoWhErE

Its an AWESOME idea bro, but as mentioned, it'd be hard to form a union for an industry compromised largely of low life scum.

Now... if Porn was a GUILD, that would be a different question.

For those that don't know, GUILDS were mostly popular during the renaissance period. There were guilds for alot of different practices, like painter's guild, carpenter's guild, etc.

And if you wanted to practice your trade, you needed to be accepted by one of the guilds. They had standards, and you needed to be sponsored by a member, etc etc. It was tough to get into, but provided quality members.

And if someone decided to practice a trade without being part of a guild, they were hunted down by the guild and austrasized from the community. And this was legal practice, Guilds had dominion over their practice.


The porn industry, imo, could use such a system

thats a better idea

[Libertine]

Originally Posted by iwantchixx

A union in any industry is a BAD thing.

Prices for services/employment get way out of hand and cause companies that should be thriving to never grow more. As well, puts a lot of people out of work while the non-union workers get all the work at stupid low prices.

Then we will call it a cartel instead and all become immensely rich.

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Smokey,

On the net there is no face-to-face between customers and merchants, or accused and accusers .... this allows the dishonest and weak to engage in practices that would have angry customers, police, and ass-kickers crowding a traditional retail operation.

Don't worry about invading personal property and it's operation or, defending obviously predatory money making schemes ... WHY?
Because they can pretend they're honest, pretend they are someone important, get the last word in, while hiding weakly behind email customer service and TOS legalize.

KNOWING IT DOESN'T PASS THE SMELL TEST

Stand face to face and tell a customer he has to pay for a "free trial" that he doesn't want. (just a current example)

Originally Posted by iwantchixx

A union in any industry is a BAD thing.

Prices for services/employment get way out of hand and cause companies that should be thriving to never grow more. As well, puts a lot of people out of work while the non-union workers get all the work at stupid low prices.

diff topics but both valid points , and maybe we could all learn something from "nowhere's" post

[MarkTiarra]

We tried that with the UAS years ago. Seemed like a good idea but you need money to make it effective and only the big players usually understood the need and they got frustrated paying to fight things for everyone else's benefit.

http://web.archive.org/web/200102051...//www.uas.org/

Some of what you guys are talking about above is a little different though but this is the closest thing I've seen to an attempt at anything like it.

[NoWhErE]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

diff topics but both valid points , and maybe we could all learn something from "nowhere's" post

I would honestly like to see that happen. An Online Pornorgrapher's Guild.

Soooooo many scammers would be booted and things would get cleaned up pretty fast.

[SilentKnight]

While most agree we could all use some form of better representation and clout these days - I've been around long enough to see the results of unions in the non-adult industries. Greed, loss of jobs, companies relocating due to high costs of labour, unproductive strikes, scab labourers...the list goes on.

Not only that...but a lot of adult producers these days are relatively shoestring budget - who likely couldn't afford to pay annual union dues.

And while the option of a 'guild' might sound good on the surface, it could also lead to elitist policies, unsubstantiated industry blacklisting and favouritism.

[MarkTiarra]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

While most agree we could all use some form of better representation and clout these days - I've been around long enough to see the results of unions in the non-adult industries. Greed, loss of jobs, companies relocating due to high costs of labour, unproductive strikes, scab labourers...the list goes on.

Not only that...but a lot of adult producers these days are relatively shoestring budget - who likely couldn't afford to pay annual union dues.

And while the option of a 'guild' might sound good on the surface, it could also lead to elitist policies, unsubstantiated industry blacklisting and favouritism.

Vey insightful commentary.

[Pleasurepays]

i grew up with commercial fisherman in alaska (my family owned several companies - owning many boats). fisherman are a lot like pornographers... they do what they do because they are rugged individualists. ... and history continued to prove again and again in that lies the greatest problem to organization.

you can't organize people for the good of the whole, that are selfish by nature
you will never convince the public that you are "the good pornographers"

[Zester]

i will post more about how this union should be shaped and why every adult webmaster would want to join it, but just for now I want to say: I would join and contribute to it.

[Mr.Right - Banned For Life]

Sounds like a great idea.

[WarChild]

I'll run the protection racket.

[reynold]

that could be a good idea ofcourse and all it needs is a proper guidelines and people that will lead the union very well. bump for the good of the biz.

[LaoTzu]

I posted about this last weekwith no response. With more heat on the industry these days maybe more WMs would be willing to shell out some coin for worthy representation... I know I would.

https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/608442-pay-dues.html

[seeric]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

Why dont we have a porn union ? There are a few but they dont seem to have any huge influence on how things are being run or protect us from the mainstream thrashing we get on a daily basis..

Porn runs the internet and it has for years , it got us where we are today , and without it , the internet would just be a clever little calculator ( because we funded it indirectly )

We can clean up the internet alot better than the government and make alot more money for ourselves by having a voice..

Unions also have there downfalls, so i was hoping if anyone else had any brainstorming on this you wanted to share im all ears.

I think we could do a VERY effective job of increasing revenue and getting alot more respect on the net if we stood together..

Now of course one of the major hurdles is , how do we get a majority of webmasters to agree on anything

Would you join a porn union ?

i'd be with you on this buddy.

i'm strongly for us uniting. unfortunately, there will be that % of renegades, bandits, and overall asshats that will antagonize it and use it to their alterior motives, but overall, it is a great idea.

[Dirty Dane]

Very good idea! Some lawyers would love it

[RobbieRye]

We already have one.

GFY Local 1983

[Jensen]

I don't really care that much about the us government and you won't care a bit about ours so not likely to join anything..

[madawgz]

its a great idea

[Zester]

Originally Posted by MarkTiarra

We tried that with the UAS years ago. Seemed like a good idea but you need money to make it effective and only the big players usually understood the need and they got frustrated paying to fight things for everyone else's benefit.

http://web.archive.org/web/200102051...//www.uas.org/

Some of what you guys are talking about above is a little different though but this is the closest thing I've seen to an attempt at anything like it.

well, most of what I had in mind is there.....

[Buzz]

My idea is a professional league paying attention to legal support and public work (up to lobbying the industry interests in political sphere).

The league's members vote for a board of directors, who hire professional lawers, PR managers etc. to work for the league.

It ain't cheap, but I'm sure that there are few dozens of the industry's top companies which can afford the league maintaining.

"Free Speech Coalition" is a nice example (not exactly as I describe maybe) of such a league.

[baddog]

We used to have one a very long time ago . . . the only thing I recall accomplishing was making Persian Kitty really mad at me.

[Pornwolf]

Originally Posted by baddog

We used to have one a very long time ago . . . the only thing I recall accomplishing was making Persian Kitty really mad at me.

You made the sweet kitty mad at you?! *bop*

[spideriux]

yes, I'd would

[Major (Tom)]

because we cant decide who our so called leaders are.. i believe our so called leaders tried to get .xxx approved and are for censorship.
Well they aint my leaders. and I am sure i speak for more than a few people here with that sentiment.

A union in adult will turn corrupt fast. Especially one that is for online based webmasters.
And who would it benefit? just how we are perceived in the public eye? Hate to break it to ya skip... We peddle porn. Its like trying to convince a christian there is no god. It's just a moot point. After all the rhetoric, fire and brimstone we can throw at our cause, we are still pushers of smut.
then we can say this: "well lets form a union to stop all these paid spots that cut into our bottom line." Well doing that cuts into someone elses bottom line. This business is too mulit-faceted to ever form a union.. It's not like we are iron workers and thats what every single one of us do. Our dynamic is vast, and cannot be covered by one union. So that leaves us with several. A union for program owners, a union for submitters, a union for adult board owners, a union for people who sell traffic, a union for outsourcers, and even a union for can spam mailers... get my point? Now lets try putting that all together in a meaningful and business condusive environment. Wont happen. wont ever happen.

</rant>
Duke

[nancycash]

as for me, our job must be in silence without any unions.

[redHOTrage]

Originally Posted by nancycash

as for me, our job must be in silence without any unions.

Union = noise?

[Zester]

there must be something we can do with this idea

[kane]

nothing like this will ever happen.

Why?

Just look at all the bitching that went on when people were having to join the FSC to be covered by thier lawsuit to stop 2257 or any number of the threads that cover when people are asked to help someone or something out. There were even people who were bitching about sending an email to tell ICANN that they didn't want .xxx.

the only way it could happen is if some really big players formed something and basically made it so that you had to join the union if you wanted to use the big sponsers. there were still be some that wouldn't join, but it force most to join. Most unions are not formed because people want them, but because a few people want it and others are forced to join.

[american pervert]

no way, there will be too many scabs, this is a scmmy biz

[Damian_Maxcash]

Im in - and being British I will instantly call a strike.

I want better pay and conditions - a 3 hour working week and 26 weeks paid annual leave.

[vvq]

im all for it. but i don't think it will happen.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Pornwolf

You made the sweet kitty mad at you?! *bop*

really, really mad

[PersianKitty]

Originally Posted by baddog

really, really mad

haha.. I'm getting old.. I had to really really think about that for a bit.

I don't get mad though.. I just stop purring when petted and the claws come out ;)

[Zester]

bumpjjjjj

[G-Rotica]

#1 Unions are evil.
#2 No way in hell could you get 2 of these idiots to agree on anything, much less 85% of the industry.

[Mr. Soul]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

I've been around long enough to see the results of unions in the non-adult industries. Greed, loss of jobs, companies relocating due to high costs of labour, unproductive strikes, scab labourers...the list goes on.

You're right, it does go on... health care, pensions, the 40 hour work week, minimum wages, healthy working conditions, paid vacations, sick days, maternity leave.

If we didn't have unions America's work force would have it about as good as China's does. Read the People's History of America if you're interested in finding out what working conditions were like here a couple hundred years ago before unions and other populist/socialist groups fought and died to win us the rights all workers take completely for granted these days. These rights weren't just given to workers because the shareholders were feeling generous. If it weren't for unions nobody in America would have any of the benefits or rights I just mentioned. If all unions disapeared tomorrow, we would lose every one of them within a decade.

Obviously, you haven't been around quite long enough.

I'm not saying anything about a union being good for this business, I think we're too international for that to work. I just don't agree with your assessment that unions have been a negative force in the non adult world.

Although, notice that almost no adult industry workers have many of the rights I mentioned before. People in most industries take them for granted these days.

[Mr. Soul]

Originally Posted by Mr. Soul

Obviously, you haven't been around quite long enough.

Ask your great-grandfather.

[Mr. Soul]

50?

......