PHP programing where to go to get jobs - GoFuckYourself.com

foe · 05-24-2002, 03:43 PM

Hey, I just entered the adult scene not to long ago, anyways I program PHP/Mysql and are pretty good at it.
I coded for a couple of years for people and could show work.

Anyways Does anyone know where I could turn too for jobs, I work at a pretty low rate Just have clue where to start out now, thanks. If you can help my aim is mysteryfoe and my icq is 74637813, thanks.

Brian911 · 05-24-2002, 05:50 PM

elance.com

Babaganoosh · 05-24-2002, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brian911
elance.com

Yeah, elance.com is a great place to get a job. You'll need to bid the jobs at about $1.50 per hour so you can compete with all of the kids and russians that are there trying to undercut everyone. The only people that will hire you are those that understand that you get what you pay for and/or have had bad experiences with the cheap, wannabe programmers.

reddawg · 05-24-2002, 06:02 PM

http://scriptlance.com

NzDesignz · 05-24-2002, 06:03 PM

SPAM

G Sharp · 05-24-2002, 06:06 PM

Foe,

Post your email. I may have a project for you.

Pipecrew · 05-24-2002, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by G Sharp
Foe,

Post your email. I may have a project for you.

talk to Mike503 first

best programmer anybody knows, guaranteed

foe · 05-24-2002, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by reddawg
http://scriptlance.com

site has same problems with kids undercutting everyone as elance.

foe · 05-24-2002, 09:45 PM

Got a couple of people to contact me, nothing really but thanks for your help anyways.

Babaganoosh · 05-24-2002, 11:19 PM

If you are decent with Perl, I can probably put you to work part time. I don't really have any use for PHP programmers, but if you are familiar with Perl, hit me up and we'll talk.

mike503 · 05-24-2002, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pipecrew

talk to Mike503 first best programmer anybody knows, guaranteed

aww thanks pc

yeah, all those freelance job sites are shitholes with desperate teams of foreign workers undercutting the market. team that with the over-abundance of supply vs. demand, and you have some shitty fucking wages. decent php development should go no lower than $45/hour - and that's cheap as it is. i see shit on these sites for $10-15... not even worth the time.

ProgGod · 05-24-2002, 11:31 PM

Hit me up on icq, we may have some work for you

ADIDAS · 05-25-2002, 01:21 AM

Just keep pluging away and asking people if they know people!

Every time I hear of something and someone is looking I let em know!

kmanrox · 05-25-2002, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NzDesignz
SPAM

you are spam

im icqing this guy to see what hes all about, low priced programmers looking for work are always an asset...

Fletch XXX · 05-25-2002, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kmanrox

you are spam

im icqing this guy to see what hes all about, low priced programmers looking for work are always an asset...

Words of wisdom...

foe · 05-25-2002, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mike503

aww thanks pc

yeah, all those freelance job sites are shitholes with desperate teams of foreign workers undercutting the market. team that with the over-abundance of supply vs. demand, and you have some shitty fucking wages. decent php development should go no lower than $45/hour - and that's cheap as it is. i see shit on these sites for $10-15... not even worth the time.

Currently Im willing to go 20-25 dollars per hour becuase I simply have no work and need the money.

YDG · 05-25-2002, 07:09 AM

Where are you based, may have some work for you.

mike503 · 05-25-2002, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fletch XXX

Words of wisdom...

other words of wisdom. "you get what you pay for" - lower priced programming usually tends to be poorer quality. why would someone invest more energy into something if they're only making half as much as they should? you, the buyer of the services won't be able to tell the difference for the most part. just four months down the road when the shit breaks because it doesn't scale correctly... that's when you'll notice.

i'm not saying "the more you spend the better it will be" - i am saying go with reputation. if it's going to cost more to get someone good who will do the job right and give you a sustainable product, it's worth the extra cash.

foe · 05-25-2002, 10:16 AM

I understand however I am in a cituation where I dont currently have any jobs, thereby I lower my price to attract customers, who will after seeing that I do the same job for less come back in the future, with more work. Its called building a customer base.

http://essayfarm.com
http://excessivehits.com

are two of my sites. Check them out.

mike503 · 05-25-2002, 10:26 AM

so you're saying that even when you drop your prices you are delivering 100% of your quality and putting in full energy on it?

i expect the answer is going to be "yes" - especially with a captive audience watching...

foe · 05-25-2002, 10:32 AM

Wow so your saying I am a bad programer just becuase I charge less than you, can you take a look at my previous work and examples rather than making an assumption on how much I charge, currently I am not that busy which is why I am offering to work for 25 dollars per hour, which isnt little. If someone charges 100 dollars per hour does it mean they are better or that they are simply ripping you off.

Babaganoosh · 05-25-2002, 10:48 AM

Well, if they can charge $100 per hour and still stay in business, they must be good. I lose jobs all the time because they found someone to write their program for 50% (or more) of what I quoted. I would estimate that 80% of the time, they come back to me. Generally, if someone is expensive and has been in business a long time, they are good.

Also, the PHP market is saturated. It's a relatively simple language to learn and seems to be just one step up from HTML so your general, run-of-the-mill newbie moves right into PHP after he has outgrown his FrontPage sites. After they gain a little experience with PHP, they move right into their own little wannabe programming business, thus producing a serious over-abundance of PHP programmers willing to work for peanuts. My only advice is to learn another language or two and get a job with an established company. Over time, collect clients. Someday you'll hit the point where you are making more money in your spare time than you are at your real job. That's when you should kiss your 9-5 buh-bye.

mike503 · 05-25-2002, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Armed & Hammered
Well, if they can charge $100 per hour and still stay in business, they must be good. I lose jobs all the time because they found someone to write their program for 50% (or more) of what I quoted. I would estimate that 80% of the time, they come back to me. Generally, if someone is expensive and has been in business a long time, they are good.

Also, the PHP market is saturated. It's a relatively simple language to learn and seems to be just one step up from HTML so your general, run-of-the-mill newbie moves right into PHP after he has outgrown his FrontPage sites. After they gain a little experience with PHP, they move right into their own little wannabe programming business, thus producing a serious over-abundance of PHP programmers willing to work for peanuts. My only advice is to learn another language or two and get a job with an established company. Over time, collect clients. Someday you'll hit the point where you are making more money in your spare time than you are at your real job. That's when you should kiss your 9-5 buh-bye.

i've found that many people who claim to know php can vary from beginners to advanced. normally they produce shitty code and have no idea how to make it modular, sustainable and scalable. but hey, that's just in my experience.

foe · 05-25-2002, 11:05 AM

Again just look at my previous work, I am also going to give links for a job that i did for a pornsite after I message the person and ask him.

I also will guarantee my work 100% and I have been coding for around 2 years.

About learning another language first I know some perl, just didnt work in it for a while and prefer not too, additionally php is a simple language but there are topics that start to seperate real php programers from beginers, for example regular expressions complex file handling etc. These topics are not important for your simple sites but get extremely important when your faced with issues like checking to see if a site posted into a tpg is real.. here are some examples

1. Regex to check whether it has several files ending in .jpg, Popup javascripts etc
2. Array and headers to load several of those sites up and indeed check if they are images not redirects.

These arnt neccessary but they do create a much better backend and in the end lead to much less maitanance for the client. Additinally I believe php is faster and uses less resources than other programing languages like perl and yes its easier than perl but this also cuts down on dev time and in the end the client gets a better product for less money.

mike503 · 05-25-2002, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by foe
Again just look at my previous work, I am also going to give links for a job that i did for a pornsite after I message the person and ask him.

I also will guarantee my work 100% and I have been coding for around 2 years.

About learning another language first I know some perl, just didnt work in it for a while and prefer not too, additionally php is a simple language but there are topics that start to seperate real php programers from beginers, for example regular expressions complex file handling etc. These topics are not important for your simple sites but get extremely important when your faced with issues like checking to see if a site posted into a tpg is real.. here are some examples

1. Regex to check whether it has several files ending in .jpg, Popup javascripts etc
2. Array and headers to load several of those sites up and indeed check if they are images not redirects.

These arnt neccessary but they do create a much better backend and in the end lead to much less maitanance for the client. Additinally I believe php is faster and uses less resources than other programing languages like perl and yes its easier than perl but this also cuts down on dev time and in the end the client gets a better product for less money.

remember, this isn't a personal attack at you, this is just a broad generalization. to people purchasing services: try to get references, past work experience, etc. the more important and costly the project is, the more you should scout out the best resource you can possibly find.

foe · 05-25-2002, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mike503

remember, this isn't a personal attack at you, this is just a broad generalization. to people purchasing services: try to get references, past work experience, etc. the more important and costly the project is, the more you should scout out the best resource you can possibly find.

I completely Agree with you If you are interested in work contact me by aim / icq and I will provide you with references, examples of previous projects etc. Additionally I do not need to be paid for the full project upfront. And will not request full payment of the project until the job is completely finnished and you have accepted the work.

spanky · 05-25-2002, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by foe

http://essayfarm.com
http://excessivehits.com

are two of my sites. Check them out.

http://www.essayfarm.com/search.php

cheers

Babaganoosh · 05-25-2002, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spanky

http://www.essayfarm.com/search.php

cheers

Warning: Unable to access /home/foe/www/include/login.php in /usr/local/psa/home/vhosts/essayfarm.com/httpdocs/include/member_check.php on line 4

Warning: Failed opening '/home/foe/www/include/login.php' for inclusion (include_path='.:') in /usr/local/psa/home/vhosts/essayfarm.com/httpdocs/include/member_check.php on line 4

Warning: Unable to access /home/foe/www/bottom.php in /usr/local/psa/home/vhosts/essayfarm.com/httpdocs/include/member_check.php on line 7

Warning: Failed opening '/home/foe/www/bottom.php' for inclusion (include_path='.:') in /usr/local/psa/home/vhosts/essayfarm.com/httpdocs/include/member_check.php on line 7

boldy · 05-25-2002, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Armed & Hammered

Warning: Unable to access /home/foe/www/include/login.php in /usr/local/psa/home/vhosts/essayfarm.com/httpdocs/include/member_check.php on line 4

Warning: Failed opening '/home/foe/www/include/login.php' for inclusion (include_path='.:') in /usr/local/psa/home/vhosts/essayfarm.com/httpdocs/include/member_check.php on line 4

Warning: Unable to access /home/foe/www/bottom.php in /usr/local/psa/home/vhosts/essayfarm.com/httpdocs/include/member_check.php on line 7

Warning: Failed opening '/home/foe/www/bottom.php' for inclusion (include_path='.:') in /usr/local/psa/home/vhosts/essayfarm.com/httpdocs/include/member_check.php on line 7

$120 an hour, im all yours

foe · 05-25-2002, 02:18 PM

Sorry bout that moved the site from Hostrocket.com to my server 3 days ago, One more thing bout that site its one of my earliest sites and hasnt been update in a while.

The error is becuase I never changed the paths when moving but updated config.php so its all good.

spanky · 05-25-2002, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mike503

to people purchasing services: try to get references, past work experience, etc.

I agree, and don't be afraid to check them. If someone gives you a portfolio take the time to look at it, test it. If you are hiring an employee and they provide sample code then compile it and test it. I've been programming for a long time and there is no word I hate more than the word 'cheap'.... well, maybe the words 'segmentation fault' :-) both make the hairs on the back of my wallet stand up on end.

cheers

foe · 05-25-2002, 02:37 PM

Notice I never said cheap, and I have no idea why people here consider 25 dollars per hour a cheap rate, to me it seams pretty reasonable.

Babaganoosh · 05-25-2002, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spanky

...there is no word I hate more than the word 'cheap'.... well, maybe the words 'segmentation fault' :-) both make the hairs on the back of my wallet stand up on end.

cheers

How about "I'm pregnant"?

dipshit moron retard · 05-25-2002, 02:45 PM

It kind of sucks how in all of the threads like this the experienced and established people always try to step in muscle out the new person. If you're so successful and awesome then you don't need yet MORE extra work, right? The "i'm just trying to help people out" facade when youre directly competing with the person in question isn't really believable. There was a point where you were making $20-25 an hour too, even if it was reflected in a full-time salary instead of contracting wages.

Were you a complete disaster who fucked up every project and churned out tons of broken shit people regretted having you write? There are rates which are pure bullshit, like $10/hr to have some guy in a teepee in kashmir write you stuff, but $25/hr for a person new to the community without a whole lot of experience who isn't claiming to be yahoo's chief architect isn't undercutting you or taking away your business. In some parts of the country $25/hr is a damn good living. If you really believe in the quality of your work and the worthness of your rates and you're that bigtime, let it all speak for itself. Turning it into a dickwaving thread because a new guy with less experience is looking to do work cheaper than you is a weak thing to do.

mike503 · 05-25-2002, 02:52 PM

my response isn't about newbies to the industry, it's about well-established people and other such groups on the freelance sites undercutting the industry. team that with too much supply and the rates have been diluted, even though they shouldn't be. the quality of work should stay the same as is the price for that.

lowering your prices is just playing the bidding war game. if people want to pay for a $10/hour hackjob done by 30 east indian programmers who don't really know english too well and will turn out some complete mess, they should go for it.

most experienced and well-versed people will not drop their rates too much, even in a recession environment. business is always business and people will continue to need services. some things may go on hold, but businesses don't freeze all their plans because they're making less than before. establish your name and you'll cross over the cost boundary.

not to say that taking on a smaller-scoped project at the beginning for less money is bad, it helps you get your foot in the door with the company. i'd go for fixed bid projects, not hourly rates.

spanky · 05-25-2002, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Armed & Hammered
How about "I'm pregnant"?

hehe, right up there...

foe, I did not mean to single you out. you posted some example code, I took a look and it was broken. it happens. otherwise your work looks good with an eye for an intuitive gui. if someone needs a little php work done consider giving him a shot.

When I was hiring a programmer for a company near the end of the dot bomb implosion I was amazed at some of the candidates we got. We got people who really ought not have applied in the first place.

I don't generally contract out for adult business so I don't really know what is standard for adult contracts. fyi, you've placed your rate at under 1/2 of our maintenance rate.

cheers

foe · 05-25-2002, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spanky

hehe, right up there...

foe, I did not mean to single you out. you posted some example code, I took a look and it was broken. it happens. otherwise your work looks good with an eye for an intuitive gui. if someone needs a little php work done consider giving him a shot.

When I was hiring a programmer for a company near the end of the dot bomb implosion I was amazed at some of the candidates we got. We got people who really ought not have applied in the first place.

I don't generally contract out for adult business so I don't really know what is standard for adult contracts. fyi, you've placed your rate at under 1/2 of our maintenance rate.

cheers

'

Ive explained the error sry about that notice it took me less than a minute to fix, it was simply from moving the site over to a new host.

My rate - I am not looking for fultime work, simply want to build up my perfolio for now, infact I have been contacted by two people too work fultime. Anyways I completly guarantee my work or I will give you your money back. Its that simple I am not looking to make a ton of money now, and am doing other things this is just a side job, but do not get me wrong I build quality code. Hopefully in the near future ill be able to provide you with some more examples.

foe · 05-26-2002, 08:12 PM

Ok I checked with some people I did work for and now can give you more references if you contact me.

cgiGeek · 05-26-2002, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Armed & Hammered
If you are decent with Perl, I can probably put you to work part time. I don't really have any use for PHP programmers, but if you are familiar with Perl, hit me up and we'll talk.

Hello, I am a professional Perl programmer; perl and mod_perl, over 5 years of hands on experience, I can provide US/Canada references on request, and could sure use some work.
Also, I can do pretty much anything you want or need,
installation, modification, custom shopping carts, payment integrations, membership systems, datatabases, database migrations, on the fly images and pdf generation and manipulation; I feel at home in Unix or Windows systems alike.

I code mainly in Perl but Senior level savy on ASP ,PHP and ActionScript as well as Junior level savy in Unix and Windows sys admin.

if you need or want something quoted, just ring.

B.

foe · 05-27-2002, 06:23 AM

Hey atleast im not the onlyone looking for work.

Brujah · 05-27-2002, 11:37 AM

foe, mike..
what kind of scripts do you guys have ? any portfolio's we could see ?

Thanks

a1ka1ine · 05-27-2002, 11:51 AM

try monster.com ;-)

mike503 · 05-27-2002, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brujah
foe, mike..
what kind of scripts do you guys have ? any portfolio's we could see ?

Thanks

i've done random small shit for pipecrew.. mostly under the hood stuff. but i do have some mainstream sites http://camgirldirectory.com and http://ratemythong.com (and associated) that i built from scratch.

i can basically build anything that's needed though. i have some other things in the works, but nothing completed and live working good enough to show =)

foe · 05-27-2002, 12:07 PM

Ive done

http://essayfarm.com was a site I built about a year ago, still running havent touched it for a couple of months houses 20 thousand essays good example of managing large amount of data, uses both mysql and files, has approximately 5000 members
Dont really make any money with it, so its for sale

http://excessivehits.com more recent site a traffic exchange was built fast, but has 3000 members 300k hits per day 3000 members and uses mysql mixed with files to optimize performance.
Right now its hosted on a very crappy host, will move early next month to my server.
Good example of work if your looking into something like managing/selling traffic etc.

Have experience with coding all types of scripts, so just message me and Ill give you a quick estimate.

Mike just because I charge less than you doesnt mean that I am less than experienced. I also have more examples of client work, however do not want to post that on forum, so message me for details.

mike503 · 05-27-2002, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by foe
Mike just because I charge less than you doesnt mean that I am less than experienced. I also have more examples of client work, however do not want to post that on forum, so message me for details.

you don't have to sell me man, i'm a coder too. sell people who will buy your services. and i never attacked you personally. just keep plugging at getting work.. don't waste time defending yourself to me.

Brian911 · 05-27-2002, 12:19 PM

just bid for the right projects and you can make good money with elance!
not my fault if "russian wannabe coders" get the projects and not you

foe · 05-27-2002, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mike503

you don't have to sell me man, i'm a coder too. sell people who will buy your services. and i never attacked you personally. just keep plugging at getting work.. don't waste time defending yourself to me.

Not trying to attack you personally at all Im just saying that I disagree with your notion that price is the only thing that determines a good coder, you need to look at a persons previous projects, references etc and base your decision upon that.

mike503 · 05-27-2002, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by foe

Not trying to attack you personally at all Im just saying that I disagree with your notion that price is the only thing that determines a good coder, you need to look at a persons previous projects, references etc and base your decision upon that.

i never said you were attacking me personally, nor did i say the rate determines the skill. that means anyone could charge $250/hour and be considered good. i just was warning people to watch what they're paying for and a lot of the times the people who won't slash their rates dramatically are a more solid buy in the long run. in programming it would be a "warning" - not an "error" - don't take this as an attack, okay? just try getting some business for yourself, don't waste time defending yourself against me here, because i don't need your services

foe · 05-28-2002, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mike503

i never said you were attacking me personally, nor did i say the rate determines the skill. that means anyone could charge $250/hour and be considered good. i just was warning people to watch what they're paying for and a lot of the times the people who won't slash their rates dramatically are a more solid buy in the long run. in programming it would be a "warning" - not an "error" - don't take this as an attack, okay? just try getting some business for yourself, don't waste time defending yourself against me here, because i don't need your services

K so we are cool? BTW I do agree with you that there are many people who claim to work for 10 dollars per hour or so, even had a guy say that he will work minimum wage, so yeh people are getting undercut.

foe · 05-30-2002, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brujah
foe, mike..
what kind of scripts do you guys have ? any portfolio's we could see ?

Thanks

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...threadid=62145

05-24-2002, 03:43 PM	#1
foe Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: CT Posts: 5,246	PHP programing where to go to get jobs Hey, I just entered the adult scene not to long ago, anyways I program PHP/Mysql and are pretty good at it. I coded for a couple of years for people and could show work. Anyways Does anyone know where I could turn too for jobs, I work at a pretty low rate Just have clue where to start out now, thanks. If you can help my aim is mysteryfoe and my icq is 74637813, thanks.

05-24-2002, 05:50 PM	#2
Brian911 Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 654	elance.com __________________ - Brian [ a directive occured while processing this error ]

05-24-2002, 06:02 PM	#4
reddawg Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Paradise Posts: 1,837	http://scriptlance.com Last edited by reddawg; 05-24-2002 at 06:06 PM..

05-24-2002, 06:03 PM	#5
NzDesignz Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Korea Posts: 422	SPAM __________________ ICQ: 93319989

05-24-2002, 11:19 PM	#10
Babaganoosh ♥♥♥ Likes Hugs ♥♥♥ Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: /home Posts: 15,841	If you are decent with Perl, I can probably put you to work part time. I don't really have any use for PHP programmers, but if you are familiar with Perl, hit me up and we'll talk. __________________ I like pie.

05-24-2002, 06:06 PM	#6
G Sharp So Fucking Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,343	Foe, Post your email. I may have a project for you.

05-24-2002, 09:45 PM	#9
foe Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: CT Posts: 5,246	Got a couple of people to contact me, nothing really but thanks for your help anyways.

05-24-2002, 11:31 PM	#12
ProgGod Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 155	Hit me up on icq, we may have some work for you __________________ Premium Tier1 Hosting/bandwidth $65/megabit: $.20/gig Way2Fast Hosting ICQ: 69658209, AIM: ProgGod123, Email: [email protected]

05-25-2002, 01:21 AM	#13
ADIDAS Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: San Diego CA USA Posts: 638	Just keep pluging away and asking people if they know people! Every time I hear of something and someone is looking I let em know! __________________ <img src="http://www.sunlightcontent.com/images/sl_but.gif" border=0> Professional Video Encoding As Low As $2.00 Per Minute ICQ # 125084296

05-25-2002, 07:09 AM	#17
YDG Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Dordogne Posts: 1,614	Where are you based, may have some work for you. __________________ Promote the webs Highest Rated Teen Paysite TeenDreams.com. #1 Teen Paysite at almost every review site on the internet. Over 4,500 FHG's and 100's of Hosted Flash Movies and FLV dump Tool.

05-25-2002, 10:16 AM	#19
foe Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: CT Posts: 5,246	I understand however I am in a cituation where I dont currently have any jobs, thereby I lower my price to attract customers, who will after seeing that I do the same job for less come back in the future, with more work. Its called building a customer base. http://essayfarm.com http://excessivehits.com are two of my sites. Check them out.

05-25-2002, 10:26 AM	#20
mike503 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: oregon. Posts: 2,243	so you're saying that even when you drop your prices you are delivering 100% of your quality and putting in full energy on it? i expect the answer is going to be "yes" - especially with a captive audience watching... __________________ php/mysql guru. hosting, coding, all that jazz.

05-25-2002, 10:32 AM	#21
foe Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: CT Posts: 5,246	Wow so your saying I am a bad programer just becuase I charge less than you, can you take a look at my previous work and examples rather than making an assumption on how much I charge, currently I am not that busy which is why I am offering to work for 25 dollars per hour, which isnt little. If someone charges 100 dollars per hour does it mean they are better or that they are simply ripping you off.

05-25-2002, 10:48 AM	#22
Babaganoosh ♥♥♥ Likes Hugs ♥♥♥ Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: /home Posts: 15,841	Well, if they can charge $100 per hour and still stay in business, they must be good. I lose jobs all the time because they found someone to write their program for 50% (or more) of what I quoted. I would estimate that 80% of the time, they come back to me. Generally, if someone is expensive and has been in business a long time, they are good. Also, the PHP market is saturated. It's a relatively simple language to learn and seems to be just one step up from HTML so your general, run-of-the-mill newbie moves right into PHP after he has outgrown his FrontPage sites. After they gain a little experience with PHP, they move right into their own little wannabe programming business, thus producing a serious over-abundance of PHP programmers willing to work for peanuts. My only advice is to learn another language or two and get a job with an established company. Over time, collect clients. Someday you'll hit the point where you are making more money in your spare time than you are at your real job. That's when you should kiss your 9-5 buh-bye. __________________ I like pie.

05-25-2002, 11:05 AM	#24
foe Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: CT Posts: 5,246	Again just look at my previous work, I am also going to give links for a job that i did for a pornsite after I message the person and ask him. I also will guarantee my work 100% and I have been coding for around 2 years. About learning another language first I know some perl, just didnt work in it for a while and prefer not too, additionally php is a simple language but there are topics that start to seperate real php programers from beginers, for example regular expressions complex file handling etc. These topics are not important for your simple sites but get extremely important when your faced with issues like checking to see if a site posted into a tpg is real.. here are some examples 1. Regex to check whether it has several files ending in .jpg, Popup javascripts etc 2. Array and headers to load several of those sites up and indeed check if they are images not redirects. These arnt neccessary but they do create a much better backend and in the end lead to much less maitanance for the client. Additinally I believe php is faster and uses less resources than other programing languages like perl and yes its easier than perl but this also cuts down on dev time and in the end the client gets a better product for less money.

05-25-2002, 02:18 PM	#30
foe Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: CT Posts: 5,246	Sorry bout that moved the site from Hostrocket.com to my server 3 days ago, One more thing bout that site its one of my earliest sites and hasnt been update in a while. The error is becuase I never changed the paths when moving but updated config.php so its all good.

05-25-2002, 02:37 PM	#32
foe Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: CT Posts: 5,246	Notice I never said cheap, and I have no idea why people here consider 25 dollars per hour a cheap rate, to me it seams pretty reasonable.

05-25-2002, 02:45 PM	#34
dipshit moron retard Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 667	It kind of sucks how in all of the threads like this the experienced and established people always try to step in muscle out the new person. If you're so successful and awesome then you don't need yet MORE extra work, right? The "i'm just trying to help people out" facade when youre directly competing with the person in question isn't really believable. There was a point where you were making $20-25 an hour too, even if it was reflected in a full-time salary instead of contracting wages. Were you a complete disaster who fucked up every project and churned out tons of broken shit people regretted having you write? There are rates which are pure bullshit, like $10/hr to have some guy in a teepee in kashmir write you stuff, but $25/hr for a person new to the community without a whole lot of experience who isn't claiming to be yahoo's chief architect isn't undercutting you or taking away your business. In some parts of the country $25/hr is a damn good living. If you really believe in the quality of your work and the worthness of your rates and you're that bigtime, let it all speak for itself. Turning it into a dickwaving thread because a new guy with less experience is looking to do work cheaper than you is a weak thing to do.

05-25-2002, 02:52 PM	#35
mike503 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: oregon. Posts: 2,243	my response isn't about newbies to the industry, it's about well-established people and other such groups on the freelance sites undercutting the industry. team that with too much supply and the rates have been diluted, even though they shouldn't be. the quality of work should stay the same as is the price for that. lowering your prices is just playing the bidding war game. if people want to pay for a $10/hour hackjob done by 30 east indian programmers who don't really know english too well and will turn out some complete mess, they should go for it. most experienced and well-versed people will not drop their rates too much, even in a recession environment. business is always business and people will continue to need services. some things may go on hold, but businesses don't freeze all their plans because they're making less than before. establish your name and you'll cross over the cost boundary. not to say that taking on a smaller-scoped project at the beginning for less money is bad, it helps you get your foot in the door with the company. i'd go for fixed bid projects, not hourly rates. __________________ php/mysql guru. hosting, coding, all that jazz.

05-26-2002, 08:12 PM	#38
foe Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: CT Posts: 5,246	Ok I checked with some people I did work for and now can give you more references if you contact me.

05-27-2002, 06:23 AM	#40
foe Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: CT Posts: 5,246	Hey atleast im not the onlyone looking for work.

05-27-2002, 11:37 AM	#41
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	foe, mike.. what kind of scripts do you guys have ? any portfolio's we could see ? Thanks __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

05-27-2002, 11:51 AM	#42
a1ka1ine Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 3,387	try monster.com ;-)

05-27-2002, 12:07 PM	#44
foe Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: CT Posts: 5,246	Ive done http://essayfarm.com was a site I built about a year ago, still running havent touched it for a couple of months houses 20 thousand essays good example of managing large amount of data, uses both mysql and files, has approximately 5000 members Dont really make any money with it, so its for sale http://excessivehits.com more recent site a traffic exchange was built fast, but has 3000 members 300k hits per day 3000 members and uses mysql mixed with files to optimize performance. Right now its hosted on a very crappy host, will move early next month to my server. Good example of work if your looking into something like managing/selling traffic etc. Have experience with coding all types of scripts, so just message me and Ill give you a quick estimate. Mike just because I charge less than you doesnt mean that I am less than experienced. I also have more examples of client work, however do not want to post that on forum, so message me for details.

05-27-2002, 12:19 PM	#46
Brian911 Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 654	just bid for the right projects and you can make good money with elance! not my fault if "russian wannabe coders" get the projects and not you __________________ - Brian [ a directive occured while processing this error ]