Paysite Tip - Which Video Formats? - GoFuckYourself.com

MarkTiarra · 05-02-2006, 11:36 AM

Well guys, after a few solid months of monitoring numbers on several projects for member retention I have found that some extra hard work on your videos really pays off...

After some tests monitoring sites offering videos in various formats and various combinations of formats, a number of permutations were done and the combination that yielded the best customer retention was as follows:

Offer three sizes of videos: Full size "Broadband", Full Size "Modem User", and "Modem User" Segments. There is a fourth that helped real recently (see below) too.

- Broadband full size version of vid (very high bitrate like 1500) @ at 640 (or more for the Hi-Def vids).

Offer this in WMV for download and as a Flash embedded video (the buffering is SMOKING fast with a Flash vid... I can get a 1/2 gig file to buffer and play on my cable in 2 secs or less.

- Modem User full size version of vid (bitrate lower like 800) @ around 320.

Offering this in WMV only works fine.

- Modem Clips.

Same as Modem full size but use a program like WMV Splitter to cut them into 1.5 or 2mb segments.

And finally the kicker that really made a nice boost to results:

- IPOD Download.

Rip your Modem version to MP4 so people can play it on their Ipod.

I imagine having all these formats listed on the tours would help conversions too but I haven't gathered data on that yet. For any of you who have been in the paysite game long, you know how much money just 5% better retention can give you so this was a nice test to run.

Some notes:

WMV vs. MPEG wasn't all that different but WMV did edge it out. We didn't see any significant plus when offering both.

Embedding flash into pages as the sample video used to be rather in question because a low % of non-flashusing systems but having it with a link to D/L the WMV sample on tours is now showing the best results (see www.tastygina.com).

We had some good returns using DIVX and XVID too but it was inconsistent. Seemed to do well on some sites and not others so I say to stick with the above where we saw no bad returns.

Hope ya'll find it usefull. If anyone else is willing to take part in similar type tests, please contact me. It'll get you some free work and help everyone in return.

MaDalton · 05-02-2006, 11:43 AM

that's cool - we just encoded our whole library of more than 400 clips to WMV at 1500 kbit/s at 640x480

too bad we missed in Phoenix btw

MarkTiarra · 05-02-2006, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

that's cool - we just encoded our whole library of more than 400 clips to WMV at 1500 kbit/s at 640x480

too bad we missed in Phoenix btw

Yeah sorry man.

I forgot to mention that Hi-DEF seems to be making a difference. There is always an argument about that and how Hi-DEF doesn't make a big diff on a computer screen and the files are big, etc... But results don't lie, so regardles of your own perception and logic telling you what's best... it's the PERCEIVED value in a surfer's head that makes the sale and Hi-Def seems to be a plus. Not enough data to be sure yet but early indications are good.

King Adam · 05-02-2006, 12:01 PM

Great information. A couple questions.

What about the use of QuickTime files for MAC users?

What program do you use to encode? Media Cleaner?

And can you provide some links to the encoder you use and the WMV Splitter?

Thanks again Mark ... very good post.

MaDalton · 05-02-2006, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Adam

Great information. A couple questions.

What about the use of QuickTime files for MAC users?

What program do you use to encode? Media Cleaner?

And can you provide some links to the encoder you use and the WMV Splitter?

Thanks again Mark ... very good post.

i jump right in on this question with my very own recommondation: Autodesk Cleaner XL - awesome program for nearly any video format

MarkTiarra · 05-02-2006, 12:30 PM

Cleaner XL is great.

I also use Sorenson Squeeze (http://www.sorensonmedia.com/).

I saw no no measurable increase offering .mov files the few times we had data on it. Most mac users can see other formats since they are so prevelant.

For splitting WMV files: http://www.boilsoft.com/

Stephen · 05-02-2006, 12:34 PM

Nice Post Mark

My wife's experience backs this up. On her video pages, she started offering the short clips we made for MGP galleries as "highlight clips for dial-up users" in addition to the full length, 720x480 (or 640x480) vids, and had a positive response from users.

MarkTiarra · 05-02-2006, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

Nice Post Mark

My wife's experience backs this up. On her video pages, she started offering the short clips we made for MGP galleries as "highlight clips for dial-up users" in addition to the full length, 720x480 (or 640x480) vids, and had a positive response from users.

Cool. =] I've had various arguments from other webmasters as to why this data should be wrong in their view but at the end of the day, the numbers don't lie. We all have our personal preferences and we all have theories about surfer psychology but the only all inclusive truth is the one the results show.

That's the whole basis for how I do my designs and offer my guarantee. I never let my own opinion get in the way of what works. =] Now getting my clients to be open like that is whole other skill!

MandyBlake · 05-02-2006, 12:44 PM

we use high and low bandwidth wmv and ipod mp4 files

King Adam · 05-02-2006, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkTiarra

Cleaner XL is great.

I also use Sorenson Squeeze (http://www.sorensonmedia.com/).

I saw no no measurable increase offering .mov files the few times we had data on it. Most mac users can see other formats since they are so prevelant.

For splitting WMV files: http://www.boilsoft.com/

Thanks Mark again. This might be one of the best biz threads I've seen in awile.

Why do I feel like I know you. Are you in SD? I used to work for Busty-Amateurs.com back in the day. Also counsins to D$ and KB. For some reason, I think we've met.

Morgan · 05-02-2006, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Adam

Great information. A couple questions.

What about the use of QuickTime files for MAC users?

What program do you use to encode? Media Cleaner?

And can you provide some links to the encoder you use and the WMV Splitter?

Thanks again Mark ... very good post.

dont bother with QT, mac users can view WMV just fine.

CleanerXL, hands down.

wmv/asf/mpeg splitter is an awesome splitter program

Tabitha's Toybox · 05-02-2006, 01:04 PM

we have been using, WMV-HI, WMV-LO, MPEG-HI and IPOD-HI for ages now

4 different formats, and each format is in a full downloadable version and also broken into segments

DutchTeenCash · 05-02-2006, 01:06 PM

boilsoft splitter works like a charm true

theres a nonfree mac divx too btw, we dont do quicktime, but im lookin into a prg that plays divx on macs - free, imho you cant require members to buy a 25 bucks codec

MetaMan · 05-02-2006, 01:06 PM

Mark, GREAT and informative posts by you lately,

DutchTeenCash · 05-02-2006, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabitha's Toybox

we have been using, WMV-HI, WMV-LO, MPEG-HI and IPOD-HI for ages now

4 different formats, and each format is in a full downloadable version and also broken into segments

whats the max size you offer for segments?

Luc Lonely · 05-02-2006, 01:08 PM

useful thread

Pete-KT · 05-02-2006, 01:14 PM

Very nice thread Mark

vod · 05-02-2006, 01:43 PM

Encoding will always be an issue...

what media formats will be around in the future? HD DLP DVD. etc..

we encode over 1,000 video's a month in windows and real media formats. we work with over 750 studios and have over 26,000 videos.

I recommend that if your going to encode your own then charge per minute billing PPV style ;-) DRM.

We encode the videos and stream them on our servers in Windows Media and Real Player. we can encode your movies and give you 15 mins free to offer customers to see your exclusive or non-exclusive content.

we can create a theater with just your content for you to promote and make money with us or we can add your content into our system and make money with us, or booth to make the highest commission you can.
affiliate commission = 25%
studio commission = 25%
you commission would be 50%

see sig for more details...

SGS · 05-02-2006, 01:53 PM

Awsome thread Mark and we agree 100% with your points.

Tabitha's Toybox · 05-02-2006, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkx

whats the max size you offer for segments?

max size? doin't think I have ever paid attention

some of the hi clips of full movies are upwards of 800-900mb...that is for archived cam shows that are 60 minutes

MarkTiarra · 05-02-2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabitha's Toybox

max size? doin't think I have ever paid attention

some of the hi clips of full movies are upwards of 800-900mb...that is for archived cam shows that are 60 minutes

I think maybe he meant for the cut up smaller segments like for Modem Users? If that's it I suggest no more than 2mb. 1.5 - 2mb works great. So if you have say:

Broadband full WMV movie = 300mb
Modem Full WMV = 80mb for that usually.
Then you have 40 2mb clips they can download as "chunks". Sounds like a lot but guys on dialup appreciate it.

MarkTiarra · 05-02-2006, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetaMan

Mark, GREAT and informative posts by you lately,

Thanks. I try to spread the love. Balances out the karma for all the people I am choking out getting ready for this tournement. =]

Barefootsies · 05-02-2006, 02:32 PM

Cleaner XL is an AWESOME program for any number of reasons, and well worth the money.

Scott McD · 05-02-2006, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luc Lonely

useful thread

A novelty on here...

chase · 05-02-2006, 02:49 PM

SOOOOOOO bookmarked!

SGS · 05-02-2006, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Cleaner XL is an AWESOME program for any number of reasons, and well worth the money.

Quiet recommended Cleaner to us a couple of years back and we have never looked back. Some of the best advice we ever had and hopefully we will be in a position to return the favour one day.

05-02-2006, 03:49 PM

please do not make serious threads here ever again, shame on you !

Web Lass · 05-02-2006, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luc Lonely

useful thread

Mark has a habit of doing that......

MarkTiarra · 05-02-2006, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Adam

Thanks Mark again. This might be one of the best biz threads I've seen in awile.

Why do I feel like I know you. Are you in SD? I used to work for Busty-Amateurs.com back in the day. Also counsins to D$ and KB. For some reason, I think we've met.

Maybe at a trade show? I haven't been to SD yet. I've been in this biz forever though so maybe you just recognize my name?

MarkTiarra · 05-02-2006, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThumbLord

please do not make serious threads here ever again, shame on you !

I am so banned!

FJIMedia · 05-08-2006, 07:21 PM

Mark, great thread. Thanks for all the info.

sfera · 05-08-2006, 07:43 PM

this is the post of the month thanks man, was curious about this

Nasty D · 05-16-2006, 06:17 PM

Great post, interesting shiz!

ladida · 05-16-2006, 07:26 PM

2 megs for dialup is too low. I was on dialup for majority of my internet life, and when i saw 2 meg chunks i wanted to tare my head apart. You can't really get anything done in 2 meg clip :P, so you have to download several of them anyway.
5 megs is something i always looked for, Up to 10 megs was barable. Above that for chunks is too much. Also, 5 megs on dialup doesn't really take that much to download, and you can get a general feel of the movie if you choose the right segments. At least that's how i did it before.

Another thing lacking in today's paysites i believe is the High definition video. 500 megs + for todays broadband is virtually nothing.

Another thing that is bad for customers = DRM. Damn they hate that.

05-16-2006, 07:38 PM

Very good results. It's nice to see a biz thread on here where people are contributing!

05-02-2006, 11:36 AM	#1
MarkTiarra Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NJ Posts: 3,833	Paysite Tip - Which Video Formats? Well guys, after a few solid months of monitoring numbers on several projects for member retention I have found that some extra hard work on your videos really pays off... After some tests monitoring sites offering videos in various formats and various combinations of formats, a number of permutations were done and the combination that yielded the best customer retention was as follows: Offer three sizes of videos: Full size "Broadband", Full Size "Modem User", and "Modem User" Segments. There is a fourth that helped real recently (see below) too. - Broadband full size version of vid (very high bitrate like 1500) @ at 640 (or more for the Hi-Def vids). Offer this in WMV for download and as a Flash embedded video (the buffering is SMOKING fast with a Flash vid... I can get a 1/2 gig file to buffer and play on my cable in 2 secs or less. - Modem User full size version of vid (bitrate lower like 800) @ around 320. Offering this in WMV only works fine. - Modem Clips. Same as Modem full size but use a program like WMV Splitter to cut them into 1.5 or 2mb segments. And finally the kicker that really made a nice boost to results: - IPOD Download. Rip your Modem version to MP4 so people can play it on their Ipod. I imagine having all these formats listed on the tours would help conversions too but I haven't gathered data on that yet. For any of you who have been in the paysite game long, you know how much money just 5% better retention can give you so this was a nice test to run. Some notes: WMV vs. MPEG wasn't all that different but WMV did edge it out. We didn't see any significant plus when offering both. Embedding flash into pages as the sample video used to be rather in question because a low % of non-flashusing systems but having it with a link to D/L the WMV sample on tours is now showing the best results (see www.tastygina.com). We had some good returns using DIVX and XVID too but it was inconsistent. Seemed to do well on some sites and not others so I say to stick with the above where we saw no bad returns. Hope ya'll find it usefull. If anyone else is willing to take part in similar type tests, please contact me. It'll get you some free work and help everyone in return. __________________ Retired Pornosticator

05-02-2006, 11:43 AM	#2
MaDalton I am Amazing Content! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 39,829	that's cool - we just encoded our whole library of more than 400 clips to WMV at 1500 kbit/s at 640x480 too bad we missed in Phoenix btw __________________ AmazingContent.com - providing only the best content and service since 2003 Monetize your content on Veegaz.com - one of Germanies largest VOD sites Got German traffic? We convert it into money for you! Skype: madalton02826 - Email: oltecconsult [at] gmail [dot] com

05-02-2006, 12:01 PM	#4
King Adam Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Valley of the Sun Posts: 5,408	Great information. A couple questions. What about the use of QuickTime files for MAC users? What program do you use to encode? Media Cleaner? And can you provide some links to the encoder you use and the WMV Splitter? Thanks again Mark ... very good post. __________________ TWISTYSCASH.com - Proven to be One of the BEST Adult Programs Around Promote These Sites : Twistys ~ Busty Ones ~ Nicole Graves ICQ : 9 6 4 4 0 2 2 1

05-02-2006, 12:30 PM	#6
MarkTiarra Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NJ Posts: 3,833	Cleaner XL is great. I also use Sorenson Squeeze (http://www.sorensonmedia.com/). I saw no no measurable increase offering .mov files the few times we had data on it. Most mac users can see other formats since they are so prevelant. For splitting WMV files: http://www.boilsoft.com/ __________________ Retired Pornosticator

05-02-2006, 12:44 PM	#9
MandyBlake The one and only! Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 17,761	we use high and low bandwidth wmv and ipod mp4 files __________________ Mandy's Playhouse Her First Fat Girl If you're interested in promoting my sites, ICQ me! 178411921

05-02-2006, 12:34 PM	#7
Stephen Consigliere Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,771	Nice Post Mark My wife's experience backs this up. On her video pages, she started offering the short clips we made for MGP galleries as "highlight clips for dial-up users" in addition to the full length, 720x480 (or 640x480) vids, and had a positive response from users.

05-02-2006, 01:04 PM	#12
Tabitha's Toybox Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 107	we have been using, WMV-HI, WMV-LO, MPEG-HI and IPOD-HI for ages now 4 different formats, and each format is in a full downloadable version and also broken into segments __________________ Contact me to promote Tabitha Stern 3066-322-17 60/40 Revshare : new hosted galleries every week Last weeks Tabitha's Toybox conversions - 1:573

05-02-2006, 01:06 PM	#13
DutchTeenCash I like Dutch Girls Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: dutchteencash.com Posts: 21,684	boilsoft splitter works like a charm true theres a nonfree mac divx too btw, we dont do quicktime, but im lookin into a prg that plays divx on macs - free, imho you cant require members to buy a 25 bucks codec __________________ ICQ 16 91 547 - SKYPE dutchteencash bob AT dutchteencash DOT com ... did you see our newest Sweet Natural Girl Priscilla (18)?

05-02-2006, 01:06 PM	#14
MetaMan I AM WEB 2.0 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,682	Mark, GREAT and informative posts by you lately,

05-02-2006, 01:08 PM	#16
Luc Lonely Ask me about negative cash flow Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 499	useful thread __________________ HONOR-LOYATY-RESPECT AZN 4 LYFE- FUCK YOU HATERS GFY IS FULL OF RACIST FUCKS Signup Now!

05-02-2006, 01:14 PM	#17
Pete-KT Workin With The Devil Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: West Bloomfield, MI Posts: 51,532	Very nice thread Mark

05-02-2006, 01:43 PM	#18
vod Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,510	Encoding will always be an issue... what media formats will be around in the future? HD DLP DVD. etc.. we encode over 1,000 video's a month in windows and real media formats. we work with over 750 studios and have over 26,000 videos. I recommend that if your going to encode your own then charge per minute billing PPV style ;-) DRM. We encode the videos and stream them on our servers in Windows Media and Real Player. we can encode your movies and give you 15 mins free to offer customers to see your exclusive or non-exclusive content. we can create a theater with just your content for you to promote and make money with us or we can add your content into our system and make money with us, or booth to make the highest commission you can. affiliate commission = 25% studio commission = 25% you commission would be 50% see sig for more details... __________________ Adult Merchant Account

05-02-2006, 01:53 PM	#19
SGS Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mallorca - Nottingham Posts: 5,176	Awsome thread Mark and we agree 100% with your points. __________________ See sig...

05-02-2006, 02:32 PM	#23
Barefootsies Choice is an Illusion Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Land of Obama Posts: 42,635	Cleaner XL is an AWESOME program for any number of reasons, and well worth the money. __________________ Should You Email Your Members? Link1 \| Link2 \| Link3 Enough Said. "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

05-02-2006, 02:49 PM	#25
chase Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 6,019	SOOOOOOO bookmarked! __________________ Need Hosting? Reality Check Network services me purrrfectly!

05-02-2006, 03:49 PM	#27
ThumbLord Guest Posts: n/a	please do not make serious threads here ever again, shame on you !

05-08-2006, 07:21 PM	#31
FJIMedia Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New York Posts: 37	Mark, great thread. Thanks for all the info.

05-08-2006, 07:43 PM	#32
sfera Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: ICQ: 248877409 Posts: 8,597	this is the post of the month thanks man, was curious about this

05-16-2006, 06:17 PM	#33
Nasty D Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: P-Town Posts: 2,563	Great post, interesting shiz! __________________ Pimp Mandy Mayhem, Tabatha Sweet, Kristi Montana and Lexy Lohan @ Hawt Money

05-16-2006, 07:26 PM	#34
ladida Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,167	2 megs for dialup is too low. I was on dialup for majority of my internet life, and when i saw 2 meg chunks i wanted to tare my head apart. You can't really get anything done in 2 meg clip :P, so you have to download several of them anyway. 5 megs is something i always looked for, Up to 10 megs was barable. Above that for chunks is too much. Also, 5 megs on dialup doesn't really take that much to download, and you can get a general feel of the movie if you choose the right segments. At least that's how i did it before. Another thing lacking in today's paysites i believe is the High definition video. 500 megs + for todays broadband is virtually nothing. Another thing that is bad for customers = DRM. Damn they hate that. __________________ agentGFY at gmail.com

05-16-2006, 07:38 PM	#35
shermo Guest Posts: n/a	Very good results. It's nice to see a biz thread on here where people are contributing!