sponsor credit checks

[Enchantress]

I just got a copy of my credit report and saw that a sponsor I had been using ran a credit check on me. I thought that was really odd. Is this a common practice, and does anyone know exactly why?

[Kimmykim]

Never heard of it, care to let us know which sponsor it was?

[headly669]

who is the sponsor so i know not to use them

thats just wrong

[RaGe]

Originally posted by headly669
who is the sponsor so i know not to use them

thats just wrong

Its probably not a sponsor that allows spamming anyway

[Dawgy]

its illegal to check someone's credit unless they ive you written permission.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally posted by Dawgy
its illegal to check someone's credit unless they ive you written permission.

If its in the TOS somewhere that they'll check it, then they can check it. By you signing up you've agreed to the TOS whether you've read them or not.

I've applied for and received credit cards online. Since it was online I obviously didn't sign anything, and I know they didn't send me a credit card without checking my credit history.

[dailydirt]

Originally posted by RaGe


Its probably not a sponsor that allows spamming anyway

cool cuz i only mail for sponsors with an agreement inplace

why mail for someone who will just keep your money?

[Rich J.]

This whole Daily Dirt guy just doesnt sit well with me. We run a super clean double opt-in email newsletter that is world famous with over 9 million total subscribers which just so happens to be called The Daily Dirt (and has been called that for over 5 years). Then there is this guy running around calling himself Daily Dirt and bragging about drug use and spamming. Do I have a right to be concerned about this or am I totally off base?

[dailydirt]

sue me

[Rich J.]

Originally posted by dailydirt
sue me

Dude... get real. Instead of being a punk and burning bridges why not just take a minute and ask yourself if its really worth it to get a C&D over a message board user name. I know... its fucking lame but the stupid little shit you say in your posts could do alot of damage to the reputation we have built on this list over the last 5 years.

[dailydirt]

blow me

[dailydirt]

then you can blow my attorney cause you dont have a leg to stand on with this

I know... so C&D away

i have hundreds and not 1 have stuck yet

u should have registered the name if you were so worried about future repricutions

[ProgGod]

Its not legal to run a credit check on you without your permision..

[Chris R]

Originally posted by Dawgy
its illegal to check someone's credit unless they ive you written permission.

They only need a legitimate business interest. It is not illegal in most cases.

Not that it is fair.

They do not usually need your written permission.

It would be a little bit iffy in this case - as it would have to be a transaction initiated by the webmaster.

Most likely - they did not check your credit, but checked the header on your credit report. This still show up as inquiries for you, but not for others. Many phone companies do this to verify someones identity. Usually you can see on the report that it is in a special section of inquiries.

This isn't your credit history, but your name, dob, address, TIN, ...

If it was your full history - I would be a little suprised.

[Kimmykim]

Checking credit without permission is indeed against the law.

An inquiry into the non payment portion is allowable and many credit bureaus sell that information, nicely sorted demographically to boot.

[Chris R]

It is not against the law:

http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra.htm#604

Section C has 5 parts that don't need your permission.

there must be a legitimate business need - as car dealers used to do this a s a matter of course - and the FTC has stated they can't under all circumstances, but neither must they get permission in all circumstances:

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1998/9802/coffeypr.htm

"[A]n automobile dealer may obtain a report only in those circumstances in which the consumer clearly understands that he or she is initiating the purchase or lease of a vehicle and the seller has a legitimate business need for the consumer report to complete the transaction."

Nothing that reuires permission when the business need is clear. Just that the intention to purchase or lease the vehicle.

Plenty of places put it in their contracts, but that doesn't mean it is required.

--

They must give permission usually only in cases where it is used for employement or medical reasons:

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1997/9709/fcra929.htm

Again - nothing requiring permission in all cases.

--
"Credit card issuers, likewise, often choose to notify applicants that a consumer report will be obtained, even though they are not required to do so."

http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra/shibley.htm

--

Whether this would be a permissible purpose in this case is hard to say, but if it is - and not for a job or medical reasons - there is no general requirement of consent.

[Wiredoctor]

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Checking credit without permission is indeed against the law.

An inquiry into the non payment portion is allowable and many credit bureaus sell that information, nicely sorted demographically to boot.

No it is not against the law. !!!!

I would write all the reasons for you but I see Chris just did a pretty decent job and saved me a bunch of time and typing. Nice research Chris

[Chris R]

Thanks - I am glad I am not the only one

I think it should be the law, but it is not.

[Wiredoctor]

Well I know first hand from being in the construction business for many years. I've had employees, and contractors and suppliers etc..that I've had to do credit checks on, and our legal department did it all the time. Yes I agree it should not be legal and should not be so easy to do, but it is Not illegal, at this time.

[Enchantress]

I'm a little nervous about saying who the sponsor is because It's very widely used. I was mostly just wondering if I'm justified in being angry. I checked the TOS page and they don't state anywhere that they have any intention of running a credit check on me. It is completely unnecessary. I stopped using the sponsor a while back after a few check bouncing incidents, so it's even more irritating that they have that kind of extensive information about me.

[Wiredoctor]

Originally posted by Enchantress
I'm a little nervous about saying who the sponsor is because It's very widely used. I was mostly just wondering if I'm justified in being angry. I checked the TOS page and they don't state anywhere that they have any intention of running a credit check on me. It is completely unnecessary. I stopped using the sponsor a while back after a few check bouncing incidents, so it's even more irritating that they have that kind of extensive information about me.

Seems kind of unfair of you to bring this to the public, and then not tell us who??? Do you want this to happen to the rest of us??..we are suppossed to be sharing this info and helping each other??

[Snake Doctor]

Originally posted by Enchantress
I'm a little nervous about saying who the sponsor is because It's very widely used. I was mostly just wondering if I'm justified in being angry. I checked the TOS page and they don't state anywhere that they have any intention of running a credit check on me. It is completely unnecessary. I stopped using the sponsor a while back after a few check bouncing incidents, so it's even more irritating that they have that kind of extensive information about me.

Hmmmmm.....widely used, bounced checks.....that's a hard one to figure out

[Enchantress]

Originally posted by Wiredoctor

Seems kind of unfair of you to bring this to the public, and then not tell us who??? Do you want this to happen to the rest of us??..we are suppossed to be sharing this info and helping each other??

You're probably right, I just don't want people jumping down my throat. It was webpower (Clickcash). The credit report says this "SEC Software Solutions on behalf of Webpower inc."

[Pathfinder]

KimmyKim:

Checking credit without permission is indeed against the law.

Can you provide info why you think it is against the law?

I agree with some of the others. It is not against the law per se.

[Pathfinder]

Bump.

[12clicks]

Originally posted by Pathfinder
KimmyKim:



Can you provide info why you think it is against the law?

I agree with some of the others. It is not against the law per se.

its against the law if there is no business need. In this case, there is no business need. its illegal.

[Pathfinder]

12clicks:

I agree with your statement, but KimmyKim made a flat statement.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checking credit without permission is indeed against the law.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am curious to know what is the basis for her statement.

[Kimmykim]

§ 604. Permissible purposes of consumer reports [15 U.S.C. § 1681b]

(a) In general. Subject to subsection (c), any consumer reporting agency may furnish a consumer report under the following circumstances and no other:

.....

(2) In accordance with the written instructions of the consumer to whom it relates.

.....

(2) Disclosure to consumer.

(A) In general. Except as provided in subparagraph (B), a person may not procure a consumer report, or cause a consumer report to be procured, for employment purposes with respect to any consumer, unless--

(i) a clear and conspicuous disclosure has been made in writing to the consumer at any time before the report is procured or caused to be procured, in a document that consists solely of the disclosure, that a consumer report may be obtained for employment purposes; and

(ii) the consumer has authorized in writing (which authorization may be made on the document referred to in clause (i)) the procurement of the report by that person.

(B) Application by mail, telephone, computer, or other similar means. If a consumer described in subparagraph (C) applies for employment by mail, telephone, computer, or other similar means, at any time before a consumer report is procured or caused to be procured in connection with that application--

(i) the person who procures the consumer report on the consumer for employment purposes shall provide to the consumer, by oral, written, or electronic means, notice that a consumer report may be obtained for employment purposes, and a summary of the consumer's rights under section 615(a)(3); and

(ii) the consumer shall have consented, orally, in writing, or electronically to the procurement of the report by that person.

.......

(c) Furnishing reports in connection with credit or insurance transactions that are not initiated by the consumer.

(1) In general. A consumer reporting agency may furnish a consumer report relating to any consumer pursuant to subparagraph (A) or (C) of subsection (a)(3) in connection with any credit or insurance transaction that is not initiated by the consumer only if

(A) the consumer authorizes the agency to provide such report to such person; or

.....

(3) Information regarding inquiries. Except as provided in section 609(a)(5) [§ 1681g], a consumer reporting agency shall not furnish to any person a record of inquiries in connection with a credit or insurance transaction that is not initiated by a consumer.

.....

[Pathfinder]

KimmyKim:

Thanks for the info.

[Chris R]

"initiated by a consumer" does not mean you have to give permission. It means the consumer started the transaction.

The only thing in that quote that requires permission by the consumer is the employment section. All the rest they do not need permission.

Unless it is for medical or employment reasons - as long as YOU start the process - they generally don't need your permission.

[Kimmykim]

Chris R, obviously you don't seem to understand the word disclosure.

[Enchantress]

Look, here's the thing. Whether it's permissible by law or not, it's really scary to me that this company has that kind of information about me. It's just not right. I know for a fact that I'm not the only one they've done it to which makes me wonder what they are doing with the information. If you used them and want to know if they ran a check on you, you can find out by going to this site: http://www.experian.com/consumer/index.html That's the credit agency they went through so if they ran one on you it will be on the report you get from them.

[Kimmykim]

You know the other problem with credit checks is they temporarily lower your credit score -- every inquiry counts as points off your total.

Doesn't hurt most people but if you happened to have a marginal beacon score a few inquiries could cause you to be denied credit, since an inquirer has to assume that you may have been approved for recent credit that hasn't shown up on your report yet, thus impacting your ability to pay.

[boneprone]

are you gunna tell us who it was?

[DamnFineOnline]

Originally posted by boneprone
are you gunna tell us who it was?

she said it was clickcash

[Chris R]

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Chris R, obviously you don't seem to understand the word disclosure.

I understand it fine, perhaps you need to look it up.

Disclosure means to LET THE CONSUMER KNOW AFTER IT WAS REQUESTED

It has nothing to do with permission - which is what you were saying.

"Checking credit without permission is indeed against the law."

I already posted the links showing this was wrong. If you bothered to read the FTC links - you would see that it is not required in all cases.

I notice how the parts you quoted left out everything in section 3 - nothing of which requires permssion:

"(a) In general. Subject to subsection (c), any consumer reporting agency may furnish a consumer report under the following circumstances and no other:

(1) In response to the order of a court having jurisdiction to issue such an order, or a subpoena issued in connection with proceedings before a Federal grand jury.

(2) In accordance with the written instructions of the consumer to whom it relates.

(3) To a person which it has reason to believe

(A) intends to use the information in connection with a credit transaction involving the consumer on whom the information is to be furnished and involving the extension of credit to, or review or collection of an account of, the consumer; or

(B) intends to use the information for employment purposes; or

(C) intends to use the information in connection with the underwriting of insurance involving the consumer; or

(D) intends to use the information in connection with a determination of the consumer's eligibility for a license or other benefit granted by a governmental instrumentality required by law to consider an applicant's financial responsibility or status; or

(E) intends to use the information, as a potential investor or servicer, or current insurer, in connection with a valuation of, or an assessment of the credit or prepayment risks associated with, an existing credit obligation; or

(F) otherwise has a legitimate business need for the information

(i) in connection with a business transaction that is initiated by the consumer; or

(ii) to review an account to determine whether the consumer continues to meet the terms of the account."

Plenty of places can legally check your credit without your permission. Their either have to give permission OR have to have a legitimate business purpose THAT WAS STARTED BY THE CONSUMER.

How ANYONE can believe otherwise is beyond me. Collection agencies will check credit reports. They even have a seperate section for it. Please let me know when the last time was someone gave a collection agency permission to look at their credit report.

Just as pointed out by the FTC:

"Credit card issuers, likewise, often choose to notify applicants that a consumer report will be obtained, even though they are not required to do so."

http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra/shibley.htm

You are correct about it lowering your credit score, however - this may have just been a header check - and if so those inquiries are only seen by the consumer - and no other creditors.

Lots of places do this - and usually it indicates this on the credit report (which ones are this type). If I get a chance later today I will see if they pulled one on me - and if so what type it was.

If it was a header check - they only get ID info.

Plenty of places put this in their contract, but it isn't usually required. Just as some sponsors put in if you cheat - you will be kicked out. They don't need to do this to kick someone out.

This is a common misunderstanding, and very well may have been illegal in this case, but it certainly is not in most cases.

[Mr.Fiction]

Nice legal argument going here.

My question is why would they have run the check in the first place?

Did your account have a high number of chargebacks or stolen cards or something?

Were you sending them 100's of signups a day?

I want to know why they did it.

[Chris R]

Oops - the dislosure part KK was refering to was for the employment section - which I already pointed out was an exception.

In general - even in nation security reasons - they must disclose to the consumer AFTER that a report was requested if you are denied credit or benefits.

The "disclose" in her quote has only to do employment.

[Enchantress]

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
Nice legal argument going here.

My question is why would they have run the check in the first place?

Did your account have a high number of chargebacks or stolen cards or something?

Were you sending them 100's of signups a day?

I want to know why they did it.

No, I didn't have any chargebacks, and I was not making much with them at that time. They ran the check in March of this year, after I'd been promoting them for over 8 months already, so I can't imagine it was an ID verification issue. I'm willing to bet that if other people who promote them ran their report through experian they would find that they had run a check on them as well. I don't believe I was singled out.

[Chris R]

Ok - I just check mine - as I suspected - this was not a standard credit inquiry.

If you check your report with the link provided - it specifically states that:

"Requests Viewed Only By You



The section below lists all who have a permissible purpose by law and have requested in the recent past to review your information. You may not have initiated these requests, so you may not recognize each source. We offer information about you to those with a permissible purpose, for example, to:

other creditors who want to offer you preapproved credit;
an employer who wishes to extend an offer of employment;
a potential investor in assessing the risk of a current obligation;
Experian or other credit reporting agencies to process a report for you;
your existing creditors to monitor your credit activity (date listed may reflect only the most recent request).
We report these requests only to you as a record of activities. We do not provide this information to other creditors who evaluate your creditworthiness."

under this is:

SEC SOFTWARE SOLUTIONS



Address:
PO BOX 30125
TUCSON AZ 85751
Date of Request:
03/18/2002



Comments:
WEBPOWER INC

******THIS IS NOT IN THE REGULAR INQUIRY SECTION******

Which is labeled as such:
"Requests Viewed By Others

We make your credit history available to your current and prospective creditors and employers as allowed by law. Personal data about you may be made available to companies whose products and services may interest you.

The section below lists all who have requested in the recent past to review your credit history as a result of actions involving you, such as the completion of a credit application or the transfer of an account to a collection agency, application for insurance, mortgage or loan application, etc. Creditors may view these requests when evaluating your creditworthiness."

The request they made will not harm your credit score.

Notice it says "You may not have initiated these requests, so you may not recognize each source."

How you can give permission for something you don't initiate is beyond me. Just as I said.

[Enchantress]

But why? Why do they need to run a credit check? Doesn't it bother you at all, because it bugs the hell out of me.

[Chris R]

Yes - it bother me, but it may have not been a CREDIT CHECK - it was most likely just a verification of the NON CREDIT stuff on your report - such as your name, address, SSN, and stuff like that.

I think they should let people know they are going to do this.

If they did what I think they did - they ONLY saw this stuff and not your credit history. This should only be the info you already gave them, except for your DOB and previous addresses.

I would have to know what they got exactly, but the report doesn't say, but it is in the section that supports my original theory. If they got your full credit info - they should put it in the other section and are skirting some rules by doing it this way.

I have to run or I would go into more detail. I will try and find out more info later if you want.

[Kimmykim]

Good thing you are running out, I'm sure your mother likes her privacy.

The first line of my cut and paste was the very first line of section 604.

As far as the rest of your nonsense, anyone legitimately checking your credit should have already disclosed it to you beforehand -- except for the national security type stuff.

You don't go get a car loan without telling them they can check your credit. Same thing with a mortgage, a credit card, etc.

[Chris R]

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Good thing you are running out, I'm sure your mother likes her privacy.

The first line of my cut and paste was the very first line of section 604.

As far as the rest of your nonsense, anyone legitimately checking your credit should have already disclosed it to you beforehand -- except for the national security type stuff.

You don't go get a car loan without telling them they can check your credit. Same thing with a mortgage, a credit card, etc.

Should have, could have, would have...

If you could READ - you would see they don't have to.


"Credit card issuers, likewise, often choose to notify applicants that a consumer report will be obtained, even though they are not required to do so."
http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra/shibley.htm

What part of NOT REQUIRED TO DO SO dont you get?

I don't know how to make it any more clearer. I suppose the FTC is not good enough for you.

The first line you copied was followed by the rest of the law which shows they don't need to.

The only nonsense is the BS you posted with your nixon like cut and paste job.

if you had included what was in the ..... it would have been obvious.

No biggie - I did.

I am a big fan of privacy - I don't like people checking my credit without my permission.

However I can seperate what I DON'T LIKE from what is ILLEGAL.

"Good thing you are running out, I'm sure your mother likes her privacy."

What are you and 12Clicks related? You two are about the dumbest two posters on here. No matter what links are posted - you continue to spew your nonsense.

[Lensman]

Originally posted by Enchantress


You're probably right, I just don't want people jumping down my throat. It was webpower (Clickcash). The credit report says this "SEC Software Solutions on behalf of Webpower inc."

That's amazing, I wonder how many of their affiliates are aware of this practice.

[Milton]

hmmm

[DemonWolfe]

I just thought I would stop in and say that I found them on my credit report as well.

It shows up on Experian credit report
Experian
NCAC
P.O. Box 9595
Allen TX 75013

http://www.experian.com/consumer/

1-800-583-4080


It appears on the report under the heading:

Requests viewed only by you


Here is their description:

You may nothave initiated the following requests for your credit history, so you may not recognize each source. We offer credit information about you to those with a permissible purpose, for example to:
* other creditors who want to offer you a preapproved credit;
*An employer who wishes to extend an offer of emplyment;
*a potential investor in assesing the risk of a current obligation;
*Experian Consumer Assistance to process a report for you;
*Your current creditors to monitor your accounts (date listed may reflect only the most recent request).

We report these requests ONLY to you as a record of activities, and we do not incluse ANY of these requests on your credit reports to others.


---

Now, I have many such inquiries listed in this area of my report, all of them being companies who offered me pre-approved credit cards. A couple were current creditors at the time of their inquiry (such as AT&T)

I am under the impression that inquiries listed in this area have obtained credit information of a full disclosure. This information was supposed to be used as noted above, and only full disclosure would allow companies to warrant pre-approving you for major loans.

I would like to know
WHY the inquiry into my credit was made.

They offered me no loan (and my credit is very good) and I was never their employee. I feel that this is an improper use of my social security information, which was provided strictly for tax purposes. (Since they never filed a W4 I have to wonder why they requested this information for in the first place)

I am sure that Webpower is aware that people are inquiring as to the purpose of these credit checks. I know at least two emails have been sent to their "support", so it will be interesting to see if they reply with an explantion.

I could find no information about
SEC Software Solutions

[mule]

Originally posted by dailydirt
repricutions

!!
How come spammers all seem to be either illiterate or dyslexic? Do they spam because they're in denial? Is it to practise their spelling and grammar? Shit, if I ever get a decently written spam-mail, I might be tempted to check out what it's offering.

[Wiredoctor]

Chris, you did a hell of a good job with your legal investigations. It's to bad Kimmy Kim had to throw in the childish comment about your mother???...Oh well, must be that time of the month.

As far as click Cash goes, they better come up with some damm good reasons why they are doing this, and fast.



to Chris

[Pathfinder]

As usual (at least for me), it is difficult to read through legal documents and make sense of them, but as I read it; KimmyKim's statement as quoted below is not patently true, which was my prior understanding from my limited knowledge on this subject.

Checking credit without permission is indeed against the law.