How do I protect my idea when hiring designers/programmers? - GoFuckYourself.com

pood · 04-12-2006, 01:26 PM

So, I've got this idea that I've been thinking about doing since last summer and I'm finally going to finish up school and will have the time to work on it.

I'm thinking about hiring a local designer/programmer to help me do this project.

What kind of contract would I need to protect myself from having my ideas stolen?

I know I'll definetly need an ND so they don't go yapping about it to their friends. what else?

chadglni · 04-12-2006, 01:27 PM

Not a damn thing you can do. ;)

gentmaster · 04-12-2006, 01:29 PM

Get the idea approved by Juicy first.

pood · 04-12-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadglni

Not a damn thing you can do. ;)

that can't be true? there's gotta be someway to protect myself.

I'm going to try to just get one of my friends to do it, but he's just a programmer and doesn't design.

pood · 04-12-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gentmaster

Get the idea approved by Juicy first.

lol, no.

it's mainstream anyways

madawgz · 04-12-2006, 01:34 PM

you cant really do anything, the best think would be to find someone in your area and sign a contract with them...

The Truth Hurts · 04-12-2006, 01:35 PM

confidentiality, non-disclosure, no-compete contracts, and a good lawyer...

DamageX · 04-12-2006, 01:36 PM

Run it by me first, if I can't use it then you can protect it. If I can, well then... tough luck.

TheJimmy · 04-12-2006, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Truth Hurts

confidentiality, non-disclosure, no-compete contracts, and a good lawyer...

and even still there is a risk...

DutchTeenCash · 04-12-2006, 02:12 PM

non disclosure agreement that his balls will be cut off if he talks and walks

Juilan · 04-12-2006, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Truth Hurts

confidentiality, non-disclosure, no-compete contracts, and a good lawyer...

This and if you can patent the methodology.

G-Rotica · 04-12-2006, 02:12 PM

Do it yourself, is the only true way.

detoxed · 04-12-2006, 02:19 PM

Tell him to give you a copy of his family pictures before doing the project

Fah King · 04-12-2006, 02:27 PM

Tell him that your Lawyer is Boris the brick eater

BlueWire · 04-12-2006, 02:27 PM

The only way to protect yourself is to sign an NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement) , read over the developers contract to make sure they dont want join rights (which most do because custom programming without joint rights is kind of dumb. For a programmer that is talented you'll pay 100/hr if you dont want joint rights) , and then maybe request a clause in the contract to state in writing consequences for redistributing code/idea.

The truth of the matter is though that the law is only as good as its enforcement. The odds of you finding out that he/she redistributes the code are slimm to none unless they come out with a huge software release or something that you would take notice of. And even then, would it be worth the legal fees to pursue?

pood · 04-12-2006, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueWire

The only way to protect yourself is to sign an NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement) , read over the developers contract to make sure they dont want join rights (which most do because custom programming without joint rights is kind of dumb. For a programmer that is talented you'll pay 100/hr if you dont want joint rights) , and then maybe request a clause in the contract to state in writing consequences for redistributing code/idea.

The truth of the matter is though that the law is only as good as its enforcement. The odds of you finding out that he/she redistributes the code are slimm to none unless they come out with a huge software release or something that you would take notice of. And even then, would it be worth the legal fees to pursue?

hey bluewire, I might be interesed in using you guys for the design portion of it, you guys are based in seattle right?

I'm going to shop around for a local designer and programmer the next couple months. Won't be able to get it started till summer.

I think what I might do is get a programmer straight out of college and maybe pay them $15/hr or something. Do the same contracts apply when you have a permanent programmer/employee? I'll probably need on going updating.

V_RocKs · 04-12-2006, 04:42 PM

Code:

(a) Definition. The term hahaha8220;Subject Ideas or Inventionshahaha8221; includes any and all ideas, processes, trademarks, service marks, inventions, designs, technologies, computer hardware or software, original works of authorship, formulas, discoveries, patents, copyrights, copyrightable works products, marketing and business ideas, and all improvements, know-how, data, rights, and claims related to the foregoing that, whether or not patentable, which are conceived, developed or created which: (1) relate to the Companyhahaha8217;s current or contemplated business; (2) relate to the Companyhahaha8217;s actual or demonstrably anticipated research or development; (3) result from any work performed by me for the Company; (4) involve the use of the Companyhahaha8217;s equipment, supplies, facilities or trade secrets; (5) result from or are suggested by any work done by the Company or at the Companyhahaha8217;s request, or any projects specifically assigned to me; or (6) result from my access to any of the Companyhahaha8217;s memoranda, notes, records, drawings, sketches, models, maps, customer lists, research results, data, formulae, specifications, inventions, processes, equipment or other materials (collectively, hahaha8220;Company Materialshahaha8221;).

(b) Company Ownership. All right, title and interest in and to all Subject Ideas and Inventions, including but not limited to all registrable and patent rights which may subsist therein, shall be held and owned solely by the Company, and where applicable, all Subject Ideas and Inventions shall be considered works made for hire. I shall mark all Subject Ideas and Inventions with the Companyhahaha8217;s copyright or other proprietary notice as directed by the Company and shall take all actions deemed necessary by the Company to protect the Companyhahaha8217;s rights therein. In the event that the Subject Ideas and Inventions shall be deemed not to constitute works made for hire, or in the event that I should otherwise, by operation of law, be deemed to retain any rights (whether moral rights or otherwise) to any Subject Ideas and Inventions, I agree to assign to the Company, without further consideration, my entire right, title and interest in and to each and every such Subject Idea and Invention.

V_RocKs · 04-12-2006, 04:43 PM

(a) Definition. The term hahaha244;Subject Ideas or Inventionshahaha246; includes any and all ideas, processes, trademarks, service marks, inventions, designs, technologies, computer hardware or software, original works of authorship, formulas, discoveries, patents, copyrights, copyrightable works products, marketing and business ideas, and all improvements, know-how, data, rights, and claims related to the foregoing that, whether or not patentable, which are conceived, developed or created which: (1) relate to the Companyhahaha198;s current or contemplated business; (2) relate to the Companyhahaha198;s actual or demonstrably anticipated research or development; (3) result from any work performed by me for the Company; (4) involve the use of the Companyhahaha198;s equipment, supplies, facilities or trade secrets; (5) result from or are suggested by any work done by the Company or at the Companyhahaha198;s request, or any projects specifically assigned to me; or (6) result from my access to any of the Companyhahaha198;s memoranda, notes, records, drawings, sketches, models, maps, customer lists, research results, data, formulae, specifications, inventions, processes, equipment or other materials (collectively, hahaha244;Company Materialshahaha246;).

(b) Company Ownership. All right, title and interest in and to all Subject Ideas and Inventions, including but not limited to all registrable and patent rights which may subsist therein, shall be held and owned solely by the Company, and where applicable, all Subject Ideas and Inventions shall be considered works made for hire. I shall mark all Subject Ideas and Inventions with the Companyhahaha198;s copyright or other proprietary notice as directed by the Company and shall take all actions deemed necessary by the Company to protect the Companyhahaha198;s rights therein. In the event that the Subject Ideas and Inventions shall be deemed not to constitute works made for hire, or in the event that I should otherwise, by operation of law, be deemed to retain any rights (whether moral rights or otherwise) to any Subject Ideas and Inventions, I agree to assign to the Company, without further consideration, my entire right, title and interest in and to each and every such Subject Idea and Invention.

KRL · 04-12-2006, 04:45 PM

Show them your gun collection.

Fresh · 04-12-2006, 04:46 PM

Come to us. NDA's of all kinds ready to roll. Hit me up 317-160-390

High Plains Drifter · 04-12-2006, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueWire

The only way to protect yourself is to sign an NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement) , read over the developers contract to make sure they dont want join rights (which most do because custom programming without joint rights is kind of dumb. For a programmer that is talented you'll pay 100/hr if you dont want joint rights) , and then maybe request a clause in the contract to state in writing consequences for redistributing code/idea.

The truth of the matter is though that the law is only as good as its enforcement. The odds of you finding out that he/she redistributes the code are slimm to none unless they come out with a huge software release or something that you would take notice of. And even then, would it be worth the legal fees to pursue?

All true, and 100/hr is pretty cheap for a professional programmer. Not to mention that its easy for a programmer to re-implement an idea after they've already done it once - the proverbial "clean room".

griffin · 04-12-2006, 07:18 PM

For $15/hr the programmer should steal your idea.

BlueWire · 04-12-2006, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by griffin

For $15/hr the programmer should steal your idea.

agreed

In our business consulting I say this so often...

A lot of people are out there "looking for a deal". The saying "if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is," should always apply. So when we do our budget and cashflow analysis I tend to be straight with people that if they aren't ready to budget for a REAL development, then perhaps its not the right time to start the business....even if that loses design or programming work for us. I'm always straight with people....but i admit that I kind of worm my way around it to say it in a nice way

With all this being said, I'd love to discuss your project further. And yes, we are based in Seattle; our satellite office is in Manila, although you'd never know it the way we setup

Egomancer · 04-12-2006, 09:59 PM

Postcount++

Egomancer

pood · 04-13-2006, 06:00 PM

What I'm trying to do is hire someone straight out of college so they can brush up on their skills and build a resume...there's plenty of bright people that just wants a chance.

but, I dunno. I've got one person in mind, whose a close friend and he's graduting this winter with CS degree. that's too long of a wait though, so I might look for someone else. Maybe less of a contract job and more of a full-time employee.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueWire

agreed

In our business consulting I say this so often...

A lot of people are out there "looking for a deal". The saying "if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is," should always apply. So when we do our budget and cashflow analysis I tend to be straight with people that if they aren't ready to budget for a REAL development, then perhaps its not the right time to start the business....even if that loses design or programming work for us. I'm always straight with people....but i admit that I kind of worm my way around it to say it in a nice way

With all this being said, I'd love to discuss your project further. And yes, we are based in Seattle; our satellite office is in Manila, although you'd never know it the way we setup

I'll definetly give you guys a call when I'm close to getting all my ideas together and how I want to do this thing. I might contract you guys to do the design portion of it.

dcortez · 04-13-2006, 07:31 PM

Rent the movie Paycheck - they had a great way of dealing with their (reverse) engineering team.

gentmaster · 04-13-2006, 08:02 PM

As a general rule. don't. trust. anybody. Try and get the work done in sections then bring the pieces together when finalized.

If you believe it is truly a winning opportunity you can always begin your own startup. Business 101 comes to mind. That's a whole other message board.

StatsJunky · 04-13-2006, 08:12 PM

If it is part coding part business plan. You should try and make some sort of profit sharing agreement with them. Will make it less likely for them to distribute your code and it will also make them work harder and give more input as they will have a vested interest in the project being successful.

On top of that NDA and non competes should be worked up in the agreement.

minusonebit · 04-13-2006, 11:00 PM

NDA and Non-Compete with provision for hefty liquidated damages in the event of breach.

acctman · 04-14-2006, 01:30 AM

the smart way to go about it is hire multiple coders, give then all certain sections and then piece it together at the end.

Kevin - The PNN · 04-14-2006, 01:32 AM

What is your idea?

IceMaster · 04-14-2006, 01:33 AM

Why dont you Code and design it yourself?

gooddomains · 04-14-2006, 01:43 AM

post it here and we'll tell you if it's worthwile being protected

u-Bob · 04-14-2006, 06:40 AM

send him a file with some pics of his children on their way to school, of his wife/ gf at work/the store...

Manowar · 04-14-2006, 06:41 AM

non disclosure

tyler. · 04-14-2006, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detoxed

Tell him to give you a copy of his family pictures before doing the project

buahah , nice one !

Manowar · 04-14-2006, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRL

Show them your gun collection.

hahahaha nice one

suicidemessiah · 04-14-2006, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRL

Show them your gun collection.

hahaha lol funny

gentmaster · 04-14-2006, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manowar

non disclosure

Won't mean much of anything if you are outsourcing.

Wizzo · 04-14-2006, 08:31 AM

NDAs aren't worth the paper they are written on.

seeric · 04-14-2006, 08:34 AM

all that paperwork shit doesnt help at all.

i've been through all of them. nothing you can really do but hire someone that you can trust.

seriously.

itellectual ideas are some of the most difficult things to protect. there is no real way to prove that YOU came up with anything.

in this situation plausible deniability is a defense that is very successful. when i work on things now, i only involve people that i trust at the highest level. even then, money is a factor that some people can't resist.

gentmaster · 04-14-2006, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pood

What I'm trying to do is hire someone straight out of college so they can brush up on their skills and build a resume...there's plenty of bright people that just wants a chance.

That's what I've done in the past for simpler stuff. Custom presentation installers, kiosks, multimedia frontends. Just hired a high-school nerd with more than enough programming smarts to get the job done. He's enthusiastic about being given the chance, glowing green, and you've just become a good samaritin.

gentmaster · 04-14-2006, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1R3K

all that paperwork shit doesnt help at all.

i've been through all of them. nothing you can really do but hire someone that you can trust.

seriously.

itellectual ideas are some of the most difficult things to protect. there is no real way to prove that YOU came up with anything.

in this situation plausible deniability is a defense that is very successful. when i work on things now, i only involve people that i trust at the highest level. even then, money is a factor that some people can't resist.

Can't agree with you any more. Well said.

i-Affiliate_com · 04-14-2006, 08:48 AM

I always come up with these "great ideas" all the time that are going to earn me millions of dollars. If I go to the USPTO website and do a search, I find several hits where the idea itself or several variations have already been patented.

If you really convinced your idea is original, go and do a quick search and make sure it is really original.

04-12-2006, 01:26 PM	#1
pood Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,609	How do I protect my idea when hiring designers/programmers? So, I've got this idea that I've been thinking about doing since last summer and I'm finally going to finish up school and will have the time to work on it. I'm thinking about hiring a local designer/programmer to help me do this project. What kind of contract would I need to protect myself from having my ideas stolen? I know I'll definetly need an ND so they don't go yapping about it to their friends. what else?

04-12-2006, 01:27 PM	#2
chadglni Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: PEI, Canada Posts: 6,924	Not a damn thing you can do. ;) __________________ Sign up here - Dating Site affiliate program

04-12-2006, 01:34 PM	#6
madawgz 8.8.8.8 Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Noordermarkt Posts: 30,509	you cant really do anything, the best think would be to find someone in your area and sign a contract with them... __________________ TAEMDLRMSKRJIXMRLSMRJ.

04-12-2006, 01:36 PM	#8
DamageX Marketing & Strategy Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Former nomad Posts: 14,293	Run it by me first, if I can't use it then you can protect it. If I can, well then... tough luck. __________________ Whitehat is for chumps If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

04-12-2006, 02:12 PM	#10
DutchTeenCash I like Dutch Girls Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: dutchteencash.com Posts: 21,684	non disclosure agreement that his balls will be cut off if he talks and walks __________________ ICQ 16 91 547 - SKYPE dutchteencash bob AT dutchteencash DOT com ... did you see our newest Sweet Natural Girl Priscilla (18)?

04-12-2006, 01:29 PM	#3
gentmaster So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Rebecca Love=Neanderthal Posts: 432	Get the idea approved by Juicy first.

04-12-2006, 01:35 PM	#7
The Truth Hurts Zph7YXfjMhg Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In Your Skull Posts: 15,420	confidentiality, non-disclosure, no-compete contracts, and a good lawyer...

04-12-2006, 02:12 PM	#12
G-Rotica Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,258	Do it yourself, is the only true way. __________________

04-12-2006, 02:19 PM	#13
detoxed vip member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,798	Tell him to give you a copy of his family pictures before doing the project

04-12-2006, 02:27 PM	#14
Fah King Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: MTL Posts: 676	Tell him that your Lawyer is Boris the brick eater __________________ "I use SplitInfinity Web Hosting and VOIP services" and its Great!

04-12-2006, 02:27 PM	#15
BlueWire Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,628	The only way to protect yourself is to sign an NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement) , read over the developers contract to make sure they dont want join rights (which most do because custom programming without joint rights is kind of dumb. For a programmer that is talented you'll pay 100/hr if you dont want joint rights) , and then maybe request a clause in the contract to state in writing consequences for redistributing code/idea. The truth of the matter is though that the law is only as good as its enforcement. The odds of you finding out that he/she redistributes the code are slimm to none unless they come out with a huge software release or something that you would take notice of. And even then, would it be worth the legal fees to pursue?

04-12-2006, 04:43 PM	#18
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,422	(a) Definition. The term hahaha244;Subject Ideas or Inventionshahaha246; includes any and all ideas, processes, trademarks, service marks, inventions, designs, technologies, computer hardware or software, original works of authorship, formulas, discoveries, patents, copyrights, copyrightable works products, marketing and business ideas, and all improvements, know-how, data, rights, and claims related to the foregoing that, whether or not patentable, which are conceived, developed or created which: (1) relate to the Companyhahaha198;s current or contemplated business; (2) relate to the Companyhahaha198;s actual or demonstrably anticipated research or development; (3) result from any work performed by me for the Company; (4) involve the use of the Companyhahaha198;s equipment, supplies, facilities or trade secrets; (5) result from or are suggested by any work done by the Company or at the Companyhahaha198;s request, or any projects specifically assigned to me; or (6) result from my access to any of the Companyhahaha198;s memoranda, notes, records, drawings, sketches, models, maps, customer lists, research results, data, formulae, specifications, inventions, processes, equipment or other materials (collectively, hahaha244;Company Materialshahaha246;). (b) Company Ownership. All right, title and interest in and to all Subject Ideas and Inventions, including but not limited to all registrable and patent rights which may subsist therein, shall be held and owned solely by the Company, and where applicable, all Subject Ideas and Inventions shall be considered works made for hire. I shall mark all Subject Ideas and Inventions with the Companyhahaha198;s copyright or other proprietary notice as directed by the Company and shall take all actions deemed necessary by the Company to protect the Companyhahaha198;s rights therein. In the event that the Subject Ideas and Inventions shall be deemed not to constitute works made for hire, or in the event that I should otherwise, by operation of law, be deemed to retain any rights (whether moral rights or otherwise) to any Subject Ideas and Inventions, I agree to assign to the Company, without further consideration, my entire right, title and interest in and to each and every such Subject Idea and Invention.

04-12-2006, 04:45 PM	#19
KRL Entrepreneur Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA Posts: 31,429	Show them your gun collection. __________________ If you would like to develop your domains, you can lease inexpensive foreign labor from the leaders in the field at iWebmasters.com TO LOWER YOUR COSTS AND INCREASE YOUR PRODUCTION! * * * * * * * * * * * * Domains Adult News KRL's Newsletter Biz Tips Just Listed Domains

04-12-2006, 04:46 PM	#20
Fresh TubeClicks.com - First Tube Affiliate Program Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: LA Posts: 4,920	Come to us. NDA's of all kinds ready to roll. Hit me up 317-160-390 __________________ Promote ONE Legal Tube Site, Collect Checks from 19 Sponsors Fresh Dave \| Email: [email protected] \| ICQ: 317160390

04-12-2006, 07:18 PM	#22
griffin Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 87	For $15/hr the programmer should steal your idea.

04-12-2006, 09:59 PM	#24
Egomancer Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 2,074	Postcount++ Egomancer __________________ ICQ: 95-239-282 WWW: www.webprogrammers.eu WWW:www.seodev.eu Y!MSN: lord_ender If you want to outsource any work to Romania - here I am !!!! www.anotheranime.com \| www.autotrafic.ro \| www.jocurionline.ro

04-13-2006, 07:31 PM	#26
dcortez DINO CORTEZ™ Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Vancouver Island Posts: 2,145	Rent the movie Paycheck - they had a great way of dealing with their (reverse) engineering team.

04-13-2006, 08:02 PM	#27
gentmaster So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Rebecca Love=Neanderthal Posts: 432	As a general rule. don't. trust. anybody. Try and get the work done in sections then bring the pieces together when finalized. If you believe it is truly a winning opportunity you can always begin your own startup. Business 101 comes to mind. That's a whole other message board.

04-13-2006, 08:12 PM	#28
StatsJunky Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Checking My Stats Posts: 639	If it is part coding part business plan. You should try and make some sort of profit sharing agreement with them. Will make it less likely for them to distribute your code and it will also make them work harder and give more input as they will have a vested interest in the project being successful. On top of that NDA and non competes should be worked up in the agreement. __________________ erik AT suthnet.com

04-13-2006, 11:00 PM	#29
minusonebit So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: [email protected] Posts: 7,391	NDA and Non-Compete with provision for hefty liquidated damages in the event of breach.

04-14-2006, 01:30 AM	#30
acctman Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 2,840	the smart way to go about it is hire multiple coders, give then all certain sections and then piece it together at the end.

04-14-2006, 01:32 AM	#31
Kevin - The PNN Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: ICQ: 306431492 Posts: 1,364	What is your idea? __________________ www.ThePNN.com The Porn Niche Network

04-14-2006, 01:33 AM	#32
IceMaster Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 8,920	Why dont you Code and design it yourself?

04-14-2006, 01:43 AM	#33
gooddomains Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 10,127	post it here and we'll tell you if it's worthwile being protected

04-14-2006, 06:40 AM	#34
u-Bob there's no $$$ in porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: icq: 195./568.-230 (btw: not getting offline msgs) Posts: 33,063	send him a file with some pics of his children on their way to school, of his wife/ gf at work/the store...

04-14-2006, 06:41 AM	#35
Manowar jellyfish Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 71,528	non disclosure

04-14-2006, 08:31 AM	#40
Wizzo 2011 GFY Hall of Fame! Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Back in Texas! Posts: 15,224	NDAs aren't worth the paper they are written on. __________________ Looking for Opportunity!

04-14-2006, 08:34 AM	#41
seeric .......... Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: .......... Posts: 41,917	all that paperwork shit doesnt help at all. i've been through all of them. nothing you can really do but hire someone that you can trust. seriously. itellectual ideas are some of the most difficult things to protect. there is no real way to prove that YOU came up with anything. in this situation plausible deniability is a defense that is very successful. when i work on things now, i only involve people that i trust at the highest level. even then, money is a factor that some people can't resist.

04-14-2006, 08:48 AM	#44
i-Affiliate_com So Fucking Banned Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 181	I always come up with these "great ideas" all the time that are going to earn me millions of dollars. If I go to the USPTO website and do a search, I find several hits where the idea itself or several variations have already been patented. If you really convinced your idea is original, go and do a quick search and make sure it is really original.