BusterBunny

50
i will battle any bot to the death like john henry

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vvq

i am not pro soul. i am simply open minded and believe there is much more to be learned about life and this world. science has changed over the past 1000 years. you're ignorant if you think humanity has reached its evolutionary peak in terms of understanding life, reality, and the universe. i'm not arguing that a soul exits or it doesn't exist, i'm simply saying there is a lot we do not know.

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BigasMoe

I was wondering if I was alone on that one. Actually I can't find the words to describe an ass of that nature except for that white womans illness
" No-Ass-a-tall "!

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ddfGandalf

The Defender of Empires, the swallower of Oceans, the Thief of Years, the Ultimate Reality, the Harvester of Mankind, the Assassin against Whom No Lock Will Hold, the only friend of the poor and the best doctor for the mortally wounded. An anthropomorphic personification. Almost the oldest creature in the universe (obviously something had to die first...) He is a 7-foot-tall skeleton of polished bone, in whose eye sockets there are tiny points of light (usually blue). He normally wears a robe apparently woven of absolute darkness - and sometimes also a riding cloak fastened with a silver brooch bearing his own personal monogram, the Infinite Omega. He smells, not unpleasantly, of the air in old, forgotten rooms. Death's scythe looks normal enough, except for the blade, which is so thin you can see through it - a pale blue shimmer that could slice and chop sound. His sword has the same ice-blue, shadow-thin blade, of the extreme thinness necessary to separate body from soul. His face, of necessity, is frozen into a calcareous grin. His voice is felt rather than heard. He is seen only by cats, professional practitioners of magic, and those who are about to die or are already dead - although there is some evidence that he can be glimpsed by those in a heightened state of awareness, a not uncommon state given the Discworld's normal alarums. When he needs to communicate with the living (i.e. those who are going to continue living) he is perceived very vaguely by them in some form that does not disturb them. There was a period when he made an effort to appear in whatever form the client expected (scarab beetles, black dragons, and so on). This foundered because it was usually impossible to know what the client was expecting until after they were dead. He decided that, since no one ever really expected to die any-way, he might as well please himself and he henceforth stuck to the familiar black-cowled robe. His horse, though pale as per traditional specification, is entirely alive and called BINKY. Death once tried a skeleton horse after seeing a woodcut of himself on one - Death is easily influenced by that sort of thing - but he had to keep stopping to wire bits back on. The fiery steed that he tried next used to set fire to the stables. Despite rumour, he is not cruel. He is just terribly, terribly good at his job. It is said that he doesn't get angry, because anger is an emotion, and for emotion you need glands; however, he does seem to be capable of a piece of intellectual disapproval which has a very similar effect.

He is a traditionalist who prides himself on his personal service, and, despite the absence of glands, can become depressed when this is not appreciated. Humanity intrigues Death. He is particularly fascinated by mankind's ability to complicate an existence which, from Death's point of view, is momentary. He appears to spend a lot of time trying to learn, by logical deduction, the things that humanity takes for granted. In the process, he seems to have developed what can only be called preferences and likings - for cats, for example, and curry. He has tried to take up the banjo, but lacks any skill with such a living thing as music. Death has a property not locatable on any normal atlas, on which he has called into being a house and garden. There are no colours there except black, white and shades of grey; Death could use others but fails to see their significance. And, because he almost by definition lacks true creative ability - he can only copy what he has seen - no real time passes in his domain. Nor do things live or grow in the normal sense, unless they are brought in from out-side, but they exist in an apparently unchanging, healthy state.

He appears to derive his opinion of how he should live by observing people, but the nuances consistently escape him. He has a bedroom, for example, because although Death never sleeps, it's right that houses have bedrooms. He also has a bathroom, although the ablutionary fixtures were supplied by a plumber from Ankh-Morpork because plumbing is among those activities where Death's constructive abilities find themselves cramped; he was not aware the pipes were hollow inside, for example. On his dressing table he has a pair of silver-backed hairbrushes and a little glass tray for cufflinks, despite having neither hair nor cuffs. He thinks that's what he ought to have. As with all creatures that have existence, Death has an hourglass/lifetimer that measures the length of his days. His is several times the size of normal people's glasses, and is black, thin and decorated with a complicated skull-and-bones motif. It has no sand in it. There is a strong suggestion in the books that Death is somehow on our side.


-- Terry Pratchett (Discworld novels)

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PussyTeenies

nice pics..

death is futile

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Canibal-7

He's retarded?

Cars are not alive. Machines are not living beings.

MrChips

When you look out there into space - and see the trillions of stars, and the absolute vastness stretching out towards infinity - then - when you understand the meaning of that - and how strange and varied the universe is - you will realise that the concept of "life after death" is not a very strange , or indeed complex, possibilty after all.

If there were life after this life - then seeing what the fuck goes on out there anyway (as percieved by my mind and eyes in this life) - makes me feel that it would be stranger that we should not continue.

Indeed - seeing what I see - how bizzare would it be to end just down here on this ball of shit?

Canibal-7

I'm actually more afraid of Time than of Death. Afraid that time will not let me do all the things I want to do, will pass by too fast and will not let me enjoy myself as much as I want.


I believe that humans fear of death lies in the fear of nothingness. Can you imagine NOTHING? Just absolutely nothing? It's too powerful to even begin to imagine.

MrChips

Yes - I can imagine nothing.

The closest you will get to it whilst alive is being under general anesthetic in surgery.

What you will find is that there is zero waiting and zero perception from the point you are knocked out to the point you come round.

The inbetween is instant. This is nothing.

When you sleep for all eternity - you do not know you are sleeping, and therefore can pass through eternity in a percieved instant. In theory, you could die into nothing - pass through 100000000000000000000000000000 years - wake up and not realize anything happened before.

(Although I believe anything is possible out there - just look (as i say) at space - its fucking MASSIVE - anything is possible)

MrChips

Canibal - dont worry about the time aspect.

Think about it - the only time you can worry (if death is NOTHING) is whilst you are alive. You wont lie in your grave thinking "fuck - i never got time to do this or that".

Therefore - get living and you cannot go far wrong

Dirty F

Your brain is your soul idiot. No brain = no soul. Stop taking acid you fuckig hippie.

Dirty F

Oh man, if you only knew how many times ive been trying to explain this to people.

Dirty F

People like krl love to believe. Its the same people who believe in ghosts, aliens, god, etc. Weak minded people. Its fear. Its not knowing why they are here. They need to believe or their live will be even more fucked up than it already is. I feel sorry for people like him.

Canibal-7

Good advice, Thanks

Lazonby

Being 'open minded', when this means accepting everything as a possibility, is not a good thing.

Science has not changed over 1000 years. Our understanding of it has. This understanding allows us (if we are able) to discard such absurdities as souls. And leprechauns, Allah and pixies.

The fact that we do not understand everything does not make it any more likely that souls exist. They either do or they don't. Our understanding of science would indicate that they don't.

Lazonby

It's quite an interesting concept. It means that murder is not so much a crime against the individual, more a crime against society.

Death really isn't a bad thing at all (for the individual concerned), since when you're dead you don't know that you are dead. So you cannot feel regret or pain.

Lazonby

No, you cannot imagine nothing. When you were under anaesthetic you were not imagining anything, so you couldn't have been imagining nothing because you were not in 'imagining mode'. If you see what I mean.

KRL

Wow, too many closed minds in this thread to even bother going further with enlightenment.

You're simply not ready yet to grasp knowledge of the higher levels of existence.

We tried. You shut the door.

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Dirty F

WebairGerard

Many Generations shall come and go before the Rays win a World Series. You won't be alone!

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CDSmith

You speak with such certainty it seems as if you've been dead before and know first-hand what it's like.


To be so smug as to presume to know with no room for uncertainty that everyone else's beliefs in the world are shams and foolish is.... well, not the kind of empty faithless existance I'd enjoy.


Hey, wouldn't it be great if everyone could just be happy in their own beliefs and respect those of others rather than criticize and belittle everyone who doesn't think their way?

:D

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KRL

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CDSmith

Lanzonby knows all. Ergo, Lanzonby is God.


Praise be to the holy Lanzonby!

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KRL

Has anyone on GFY been technically dead and rescecitated back?

Curious to hear your experiences if so.

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CDSmith

Death..... is inevitable.

Being afraid of something that is inevitable is a huge waste of time and a needless empty useless worry. Period.

Of course, to understand what I'm saying you really must have a good understanding of the meaning of the word "inevitable".

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Michaelious

i just think time passes so quickly it wont be long till its our turn. we really should not worry about now it cant be worse than not existing

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CDSmith

One of my patients back in the late 80's was pronounced dead by a physician, then came back to life 20 minutes later.

He is on the books as a documented resurrection.

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Canibal-7

I doubt it, but many have in the past. There are many books written on the subject, of which I've read more than a few. So should we believe the "long dark tunnel with the light at the end" theory"?

Canibal-7

Do you know if he or she remembers anything?

Lazonby

I'm not saying that everyone else's beliefs are shams and foolish. The only belief we have really covered in this thread is the belief in souls. We can start another thread if you'd like me to have a go at all the people who believe in fairies, Allah and leprechauns.

Which is exactly why people believe in absurdities - because they want/ need to.


I was hardly belittling people; just defending myself on the charge of being 'ignorant' and 'closed minded'.

People can believe what they want as long as it doesn't inspire them to violence. However, when people believe in absurdities they can and should be called on them. It's how we progress. How can people be expected to discard belief in absurdities if they are never taught how to?

CDSmith

He was a little old guy from India, spoke very little English. His family reported what he said about the experience though, and yes, he did say some things about it.

I recall the incident, but I don't remember the specifics as to what he might have seen though.

Actually, in my 15 year career as a health care worker I could tell you of several incidents that I would call "freaky".

Let me just say this...No way in hell would I ever presume to sit on my high horse and proclaim that I know with 100% certainty about anything to do with death or dying or eternity etc etc.

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CDSmith

Who gets to decide what is absurd and what isn't? You?

THAT is what's absurd in this thread. Your posts come off like you know without a doubt the answers to all these questions, but the fact is you're like the rest of us.... you don't.

Thus you are basically talking out your ass.

My belief at this moment is to just shut up and respect the beliefs of others. No one is asking you to think their way. Speak about your own opinions/beliefs if you must, but I'm recommending that you start stating your opinion as just that... YOUR opinions. Your posts come off like cut & dried fact with no room for doubt or differing opinions, and that to me smacks of a smug, close-minded know-it-all.

I wouldn't go presuming that you are the enlightened one here. That's all, carry on.

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Lazonby

Without going into detail, when I was in my final year at school my heart stopped beating before I was revived. I can still remember what went through my mind before I lost consciousness. The memory is very clear.

Whilst I was 'dying', my hearing began to fail until I couldn't hear the screams of those around me. At the same time I lost my sight until it went black, then when I could no longer breathe, although I think my eyes were closed all I could see was bright white light. I must have fallen unconscious then as that's the last I could remember, apart from thinking 'this is it'. It was quite peaceful even though my lungs felt like they were burning. Then I was revived and everything returned to normal very quickly.

Afterwards, I was no more tempted to believe in god/ fairies/ souls/ Jesus than I was before. A religious friend of mine did however use the experience to try to convert me to Christianity.

Lazonby

People who can.

It is known that souls do not exist. The same as it is known that the gods of Christianity and Islam do not exist and that there is no such thing as magic. Or fairies.

It doesn't matter which orifice I talk out of. It's the content which matters.

Why do we have to respect the beliefs of others? We can only respect the respectable. What's resectable to one person may not be to another.

When talking about absolute truths such as souls/ fairies/ purple unicorns/ Allah/ etc, opinions are neither here nor there. Opinions have value when there are grounds to dispute the answer or when talking about one's favourite colour or type of music.

I think you're right about me sounding smug. We've already covered the closed-minded thing though, and we discovered it was the other way around. And I don't know it all. You got one out of three.

Hmmmm. Scientific fact might have to differ with you on that one

Teodora

it is very silly to talk about death as u cannot avoid it, that's for sure... the girls are nice anyways

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CDSmith

You aren't one of them.


yes, but when it comes out of your ass it's worth shit.


Never said you had to. I recommended that you do though, that's all. An intelligent person would be able to see the difference, and understand the greater benefit of that advice, and would already know that people tend to get offended when some know-it-all tries to crap all over their personal beliefs.


Last I checked, science has not disproved the existence of God.


In case you're not getting it, I'm not trying to crap on YOUR beliefs either. Nor am I necessarily disagreeing with everything you've said. I'm only taking issue with your tone of arrogance and ridiculous certainty.

Basically put, unless you've died and come back somehow and can now proclaim to the world "what it's like", you may as well shut the fuck up. :D


Now, if you don't mind I have to go walk my unicorn....

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Lazonby

But when it comes to distinguishing souls, fairies, Allah and leprechauns as absurdities I am more than qualified. Along with most other people.


Except if I had already done a colonic irrigation then stuffed a tape recorder full of true words up there first before pressing play.


I'll say it again. We can only respect the respectable. Each person has their own standards when it comes to that. It turns out that I don't respect any beliefs which state that souls, fairies, Allah or leprechauns are fact. Other people might. That is their choice.


You slipped up there. The 'existence of god' was not part of that particular quoted reply chain. Your original "I wouldn't go presuming that you are the enlightened one here. That's all, carry on." to which I replied "Hmmmm. Scientific fact might have to differ with you on that one" to which you replied "Last I checked, science has not disproved the existence of God." made no mention of the existence of god. That was a different part of the conversation.

In any case, science would appear to prove the existence of a 'creative entity' (although the decision to call it god rests entirely with the individual). However, science/ maths/ logical reasoning have proven beyond any doubt that the gods of Christianity and Islam do not, and cannot, exist.


This is GFY. You're upset because someone has come across as arrogant to you? Christ on a friggin' bike, you'd have a full time job addressing each and every post on this forum in which you detected the slightest bit of arrogance.

It can be, and is, known that there is no such thing as a soul, without having to die and be revived to find it out.


No you don't.

vvq

And you for some reason think our understanding of science will not change over the next 1000 years? The fact that we do not understand everything (if anything) means everything is possible. Look at the universe my friend. We're a small speck in something that goes on for infinity.

Look at it like this. A human is raised inside of a completely empty room his entire life. No contact with the outside world or other humans, ever. To this human being the world is this room. There is nothing more. He will never learn or understand there is a world outside of this room. Now apply this to us. We live on a planet, contained within this universe. Is there something else out there? A bigger world beyond our universe that we just don't have a means of understanding or even fathoming?

Look at animals. We don't consider them intelligent. You think human beings are the highest form of intelligent life in a universe that goes on for infinity? You have much to learn.

Does this have anything to do with a soul? No, not really. I'm just saying we don't know everything. And it's foolish to think to yourself you know exactly what happens to people when they die, because no one does.

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Hollywood Horwitz

first off,those chicks are shwag,maybe 4 out of 10 at best...

as far as death,i always say its better to not think about what happens when we die cuz were never gonna know,thus you can speculate and create theories all day,but thats pointless.live for the now and dont stress on death,things live and die, what happens before or after is irrevalent to currect issues...

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KRL

Good points.

The very fact that we can not truly comprehend infinity says a lot also to validate the fact that the unknown is just that.

This week scientists came out with the theory that the Universe expanded from the size of a marble to 13 Billion miles in one trillionth of one trillionth seconds. That is simply mind boggling.

But it still brings you back to the chicken and the egg dilema. What came first? If the Universe at its birth was the size of a marble what was it existing within at that point? They say the Universe is now 13.7 Billion light years in size. Still you can't answer the question ok lets say it is that, then what is on the outside of the Universe?

Basically nothing computes when you start talking infinity. Same problem if you go in the other direction too. They say Quarks are so small they can't even be precisely measured. Yet to have a quark it still has to be composed of something else to exist. What is that something then?

Again your mind can not compute that either.

So if there is so much that is incomprehensible it leads us to the distinct propbability that there is a lot of stuff we aren't able to compute with our minds. Maybe dimensions within dimensions. Parallel dimensions. Anti-matter. Time displacements. Space warps. How about black holes?

Got to remember our eyes are extremely limited in what they can see. Its common knowledge that the electromagnetic spectrum is significantly larger and the visible light portion is just a fraction of it. Maybe there are conscious energy fields around us of people who have died in the physical sense but really only shed their physical body.

What about self awareness? How can that be explained without acknowledging that you have a soul, life force, etc. How can you think of your self without looking inward? If you are looking inward than it is from something outward. Where is the center of one's self? Close your eyes and ask that question. What are you seeing now? Its nothing but an energy force. And that in fact is what each of us really is.

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RuthB

wow what a heavy topic for a Friday, and St Patricks Day to boot! Though it's been interesting to read the discussion so far.

All I know for sure is that it hurts a LOT when people you love die, nothing I've experienced so far has compared to this kind of loss.

It can make it easier if you believe in life after death; to keep up the hope that at some point you may be reunited with those people who have meant something to you. For some it helps to believe that these dead loved ones are 'watching over you' as you go through the rest of your life.

To be honest, I'm not sure where I stand on all that - souls, heaven/hell, etc etc. Personally I'm just trying to enjoy the time I have with the people I care about WHILE I still HAVE life. Life can be extinguished at ANY point, you never can tell.

Who'd have thought there'd be such deep philosophical debate on GFY??!! Did I come to the right place?

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CDSmith

You're obviously new. Upset? Please. Whatever gave you the idiotic notion that I was upset?

I'm just sitting back, posting, and letting you convince me you're a dope, that's all.

No upset here.

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Mr.Right - Banned For Life

WOW, so many different views on this subject.

SuckOnThis

Actually numbnuts its the other way around. People like you choose to believe what you do out of fear and in order to keep your sanity. Who would be comfortable with the thought of paying the price for being YOU?

KRL

"Music wakes us up to the fact that we are not our body,
we are not our mind.

We are infinite, immortal energy.

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience,

We are spiritual beings having a human experience."

Michael Sembello

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vvq

in a way heaven and hell are real. i don't believe in a sense that they're a place you go when you die, but they symbolize the two polar extremes of what humanity can become. just my take on heaven/hell.

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Lazonby

I've not said once that I think that our understanding of science will not change over the next 1000 years.

No it doesn't. Everything is governed by the rules of natural law. Nothing which violates those rules can exist. Natural law is constant throughout the universe.

No it doesn't. Infinity does not exist. It is just a concept. The universe has a fixed volume at any one time.

There is most probably a multiverse. However, it is unlikely that we can test this by experimentation.

We don't know.

But less to learn that others. Which is why I can state that souls do not exist whereas others have yet to learn that souls do not exist.

Not knowing everything does not mean that we cannot know that souls do not exist.

Like I've already pointed out in this thread, there is no reason whatsoever for us to suspect that they is anything after death.

KRL

Souls don't exist. Infinity doesn't exist. Only natural laws exist.

What the fuck dude, I think its you that doesn't exist. Never seen such a closed mind.

Wake up, go to the ocean and watch the sun set and then tell me we're all there is.

Fucking christ . . . . how young are you? Not to sound jerky, but it doesn't sound like you've experienced a lot of things in life yet.

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Lazonby

Self-awareness was explained rather well by a Japanese research team who constructed a robot which was self-aware. It did not require the creation of a soul. All it required was the creation of artificial neurons within the software which controlled the robot.

Lazonby

There's no reason whatsoever for us to suspect that they exist, no.

Infinity doesn't exist. It is a concept.

Correct, and they are unchanging. The natural laws which govern us here on Earth, for example the laws of gravity, weak nuclear forces, etc, are the same right across the universe.

If I didn't exist I would not have been able to post in this thread. Perhaps I died 10 years ago and my soul has been posting for me. Perhaps science will show in 1000 years time that souls in the year 2006 did not need to use keyboards in order to produce words on a forum, since souls cannot type what with them being ghosts or whatever.

You don't understand what a closed mind is. It's open-mindedness which allows one to be able to discard the false and acept the real.

Why would I want to do that? What would that add to a discussion about the existence of souls? If you don't like the idea that humans are nothing more than intelligent primates then that's up to you, but it has no bearing whatsoever on actual reality. Reality doesn't change itself to cater for whims.

Young or old enough to be your younger or older brother.

Usually the prelude to a jerky-sounding comment.

It can sound like however you want it to sound. However, what it 'sounds like' to you may or may not coincide with actual fact. In this case it doesn't.