Raven

The movement to have abortion declared illegal has grown strong since 1973.

If it's overturned and abortion becomes illegal, what do you think the impact will be on our society?

Will there be legislation for DNA testing to identify the father?

What legal rights will be given to the identified father?

What rights will the mother have if it were, let's say, a one night stand, she doesn't even know who the father is...will she still have the final say if she decides she doesn't want the responsibility and wants to give the baby up for adoption?

Those who are against abortion....what would you put into place? That helps the unborn child have a chance to live a quality life? I realise there are no guarantees, under the best of circumstances....even when the child is wanted...but take abortion away.....and what will happen, do you think?

__________________

sperbonzo

uhhhhh..... Raven. You do realize that if Roe v Wade is overturned it will simply mean that it is no longer a federal law legalizing it.

It just means that it would be up to each state individually. So in some states it will be legal and in others it will not.

Just a point of law.

__________________
Michael Sperber / Acella Financial LLC/ Online Payment Processing

[email protected] / http://Acellafinancial.com/

ICQ 177961090 / Tel +1 909 NET BILL / Skype msperber

Raven

Yeah, but Michael, that raises a whole slew of questions, now, doesn't it?

Will certain states allow non residents to cross the 'border' for an abortion? Will you have to have proof of residency to abort in the state that allows it?

__________________

sperbonzo

I'd say that what you are suggesting would be almost impossible.

It would be a blatent violation of the 9th and 10th amendments and would almost certainly be overturned, especially by the kind of constitutional constructionists that have been appointed lately.

__________________
Michael Sperber / Acella Financial LLC/ Online Payment Processing

[email protected] / http://Acellafinancial.com/

ICQ 177961090 / Tel +1 909 NET BILL / Skype msperber

Matt 26z

One problem that comes to mind is the fact that more than a few women will claim false rape just to get an abortion. That in turn will end up hurting legit rape cases because the standards of evidence will probably go way up.

Viewfinder

Most conservative states will ban elective abortion, while most liberal states will pass state versions of the Freedom of Choice Act which would virtually allow abortion for any reason. Middle class and wealthy women in conservative states will travel to liberal states when they desire abortions, or get them performed at a gynecologist who opens up an under-the-table abortion practice, which was common before Roe V. Wade. Poor women in conservative states will either visit a cheap "back alley" provider where they may die or be maimed, or they will give birth and likely raise their children in somewhat less than ideal conditions, creating additional burdens on the welfare and criminal justice system.

Raven

Ok. Let's make this a hypothetical question, since it is not out of the realm of possibility, if not probability.

What if abortion were federally illegal, now leaving it up to individual states?

What legislation would be necessary for the parents and the unborn baby, regardless of how it was conceived....to give the kid a shot at some kind of life, other than foster care and state homes.

__________________

Peaches

Abortions happened before Roe vs. Wade, they will happen if it gets overturned.

Raven

True dat. There was a time before Roe vs. Wade, that a woman needed the recommendation from three psychiatrists for a 'therapeutic' abortion...

'Course, there was also quite a few mortalities from the back alley practitioners.

__________________

C_U_Next_Tuesday

We will see what we did, but even more so ,when abortions were illegal.. back alley and home induced abortions..things will get bloody for sure.

Rebecca Love

Time for a revolution.......

__________________


Kisses,
Rebecca Love
"Skinemax BQueen of Late-Nite"
www.RebeccaLove.com

kane

there are many things that would help like improving the adoption system and the foster care system is some states. More sex ed in schools and making birth control more readily availible to people who are either poor or underage etc...sadly none of these will happen. The largest group that is pro life are also the hardcore religious right. There are more moderate people that are pro life, but they tend to not speak up. the religious right wants no abortions and only abstinace tought in school. They all care about getting the child born, but care very little about what happends to it from there.

psili

I think everyone's going about this all wrong. We shouldn't even have to worry about abortion.

What should be legislated are anti-procreation laws.

People shouldn't have a "right" to procreate. There's too many irresponsible people out there having children. For example, what right does an HIV positive woman have in getting pregnant and giving birth to a baby who is then prone to being infected with the disease? Not to mention all the destitute people out there having too many children and becoming a burden to society.

[/rant]

Seriously though. There's too many people, man. Too many.

__________________
Your post count means nothing.

GatorB

There are many minority kids that never get adopted because well they are minorities. Rich people are mostly white and want white babies. If they want a non-white baby they usually go to Asia. As much as people like Pat Robertson preach "adoption not abortion" I see that he himself has NEVER adopted even ONE child. So that's a bit hypocritical. Seems a little "do as I say not as I do".

The same people than want abortion made illegal also do not want sex ed in schools. ironically banning abortion( which most unwanted pregnancies are by poor girls ) and lack of sex ed. will lead to more babies born to poor people which means increasing the amount of money spent on welfare to care for these kids. Which of course republicans are anti-welfare yet they will get an INCREASED welfare state if they ever got their way.

Of course NONE of this would be an issue of people would use birth control.

GatorB

Seriously though WHO makes that decison on who can and can't have kids? Bush? You'll find that once you go down that slippery slope the person they may wanted banned from having kids may be YOU.

baddog

I predict a rise in miscarriages.

psili

Don't know.
Maybe you answered it right there: WHO - World Health Organization.
*shrug*

__________________
Your post count means nothing.

Viewfinder

Utopia would be the only thing that would solve that problem. Women usually have pretty good reasons for getting abortions (ie they know that they're not ready for children, don't have a responsible husband, don't have financial stability, etc.) If the state somehow is able to force them to give birth, those children will not have a fantastic chance at a normal life. The sad reality is that the infant adoption waiting list would be exhausted within the first couple of years after an abortion ban. Most of these children would either be raised in poverty, or in orphanages which is worse. And there would be a real cost to society, both financially and socially. Crime would almost certainly go up and so would transfer payments.

I think the question we should ask ourselves is why do we seem to be so concerned with the lives of embryos? I want to be careful here because I myself used to be very much against abortion, so I know what the emotions are behind that position and I respect them. But, upon further thought, I realized that we're really only talking about a life in the barest biological sense. The first trimester embryo has no ability to think, feel, or be aware of anything including it's own life. When it dies, nothing has been lost except flesh. It had no relationships, it didn't love, it didn't hate, it didn't exist as a person. Anti-abortionism is really rooted in a fundamentalist Christian hatred of sexuality, in my opinion. They oppose abortion because they oppose the kind of sex that usually creates the need for abortion (premarital, extra-marital, teenage, you name it). In fact, if you look at the major political issues that the religious right is most riled up about, they all have something to do with sex (abortion, gays, porn, prostitution, TV indecency), so we know these people are absolutely obsessed by sex, almost to the exclusion of concern for anything else.

Further proof that their opposition to abortion is almost completely about sex is the fact that they have not lifted a finger to advocate for state or federal bans on all private and public scientific research that destroys human embryos. If their fight against abortion is really all about "saving the babies" then why not pressure legislatures and Congress to ban this form of experimentation which results in scores of dead embryos every year? Might the reason be because it has nothing to do with sinful sex? And remember that their opposition to embryonic stem cell research funding was essentially forced, that is they were forced to take a position on it defensively after Bill Clinton created the issue by suggesting that the research be funded by the federal government. They opposed it because they had to in order to remain consistent.

So, basically, I believe that the opposition to abortion is primarily prudish in nature, but secondarily sentimental in nature. All of the pro-life activism in this country over the years has created a popular sentimental sympathy in the general public for embryos and fetuses. But people don't stop to think that an abortion destroys a life that doesn't even know it's alive. Farm animals have far greater awareness and consciousness than embryos or fetuses, but most people don't sit around worrying about the fact that thousands of them are slaughtered everyday so that we can enjoy tasty food. I don't either. It's not pretty, but it's a necessary part of life and it's not murder because we're not talking about thinking, reasoning, aware beings. Same with abortion, in my opinion.

kane

This is very true. I know a hand full of people who are very anti-abortion and of all of them only one of the couples has ever adopted a baby. And they did it because after they had their kid he got a vasectomy and then 9 years later they decided to have another kid and the doctor told him that the proceedure could be reversed, but it had about a 70% of not taking nad still not working right so they ended up adopting.

also you are correct. It it more the poor and the minorities that have abortions. Without we will see a rise in the amount of poor people and a rise in the amount we spend on welfare.

Kevin - The PNN

Raven - I do not think you have to worry about this. For you to have an abortion - that means a man would have to have sex with you.

I do not see that happening.

__________________
www.ThePNN.com
The Porn Niche Network

SuckOnThis

You want the govt deciding who can and cannot have kids? No wonder this country is so fucked up.

GatorB

Which means if the conservatives want to ban abortions taxes will need to be increased. More irony. Republicans better decide which they want more. Banning abortion or less taxes and less welfare becuase you don't get both.

jonesy

i hope roe vs wade gets overturned.

itll be a well needed wake up call this country's been needing since viet nam.

and our country has been asleep since then.

99% of those that vote republican have no fucking idea or clue as to who, what and why they vote republican.

__________________
.
Shooting Bikini Girls

Kevin - The PNN

WTF ???????

__________________
www.ThePNN.com
The Porn Niche Network

CC

I think that he is saying that it would show America/the voters how crazy the people in office really are....I THINK, lol.

RawAlex

Three words:

More Pregnant Content.

Alex

bringer

oppps, this is already happening

__________________
333-765-551

GatorB

Right now that the idiots of America voted in Bush TWICE. I want Bush to get everything he wants. That way when the country gets really fucked up the idiots out there will finaly wake the fuck up. See some people need to learn the HARD way. Sad, but true. See if Bush gets his way and the country is really fucked up who can he blame? NO ONE, but himself.

directfiesta

Rape is not considered a valid reason for abortion under the new legislation that is getting imposed.

Only the health of the mother is .

__________________
I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

pocketkangaroo

Gator does make a point. If this does get overturned, the backlash on Bush and Republicans would be more than they could possibly take. They would get destroyed at the next elections. Then again, lying about why we went to war, handling the war like an idiot, and being completely incompetent didn't sway anyone.

jonesy

gatorb

usually i dont agree with you on most of what you post but you nailed it on this one..

__________________
.
Shooting Bikini Girls

GatorB

Just remember 35% of the electorate will vote for Ossama if he had an R next to his name. So it's convincing the 15% of the idiots that are thinking about it to change their minds.

bringer

the two party system is the problem. you think anyone who a R next to their name is an idiot and anyone with a D is a genious which puts you on the same level as the "idiots" who vote republican. One can only hope that some day the two party system will disappear and people will vote for the person who forms their own opinions instead of repeating what they read in their parties news letter.

__________________
333-765-551

stickyfingerz

This thread has so much wrong information. Sheesh.

Ok so if its a womans choice why does she need over 30 weeks to think about it?
2 month cap should be it.
If she is raped why does she need 30 weeks to think about it?
2 month cap should be it.
Those that say minority babies are not adopted are just silly. People fly to China, and Romania and Africa to adopt children. There are long waiting lines for any newborn baby.

And again why do we need more than 2 months to make this decision? Why does the father have 0 say in the 'decision'? 44 FUCKING MILLION dead babies and some of you think thats a good thing? For shame. How many of those were rapes, or done to save the mothers life?
MAYBE 5% if that.

How many were done out of simple selfishness not wanting to take care of their responsiblity? 95% I have no problem with the 5% that have good reasons. Reduce the total by 95% and the other 5% should be legal.

stickyfingerz

Wow your stupidity didnt just peak through the clouds there, its was a fucking cloudless day and the sun just scorched the earth to a smouldering pile of rock. Your a fucking idiot for saying that.

directfiesta

I presume you are also on Windows 95 ...

Upgrades are good sometimes. Update your info, mainly after claiming:

__________________
I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

jonesy

your right - the backlash will be like an atomic bomb.

most people that voted for bush didnt really think he was really anti-abortion, just a guy who stood for traditional family values. whatever the fuck that means.

BUT GUESS WHAT - the voters thought wrong.


The reason lying about Iraq isnt getting Bush Impeached is because iraq doesnt affect ALL of us on a personal level, so its almost like it doesnt exist.

so now one gives a shit.

gas went up in price - people bitched - then it went back down. people were passified.

if our economy went into say depression or gas stayed at the prices over the summer or went up more because of the war you would see reaction.

EXXON'S profits in the last quater in 2005 totaled more than any previous YRLY profit the company had.

__________________
.
Shooting Bikini Girls

directfiesta

Read it on .....

So go back to "your 2 months, who's the daddy, people want to adopt" fill of crap.

__________________
I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

CC

No, it's pretty easy to adapt an African American baby....those are the babies that no one wants to adopt. Sad, but true.

Because it is the WOMAN'S body that has to go through 9 months of pregnancy and then labor itself. Pregnancy is NOT without physical consequences for a woman's body....a one-time sperm deposit into a woman's pussy IS without consequences for a man's body.

A lot of women don't even realize they are pregnant until after 2 months....I'm not saying these are the brightest bulbs in the world, but it is true.

jade_dragon

so 99% of the republicans vote that way for no reason? Which I suppose you will say is far less intelligent than the widely accepted practice of voting democratic because you are a minority? that figure is about as off the wall as my next point.

I see a lot of facts and figures here and I am wondering where they came from. So the MAJORITY of abortions are coming from a MINORITY, but in other posts and reports it is the MINORITY that is having the MAJORITY of the kids? With your speculative breeding schedule of minorities, I have to ask you, how is it they are still a minority? Likewise you are saying that minorities are probably breeding 10:1 to whites to cover being the races with the most kids born and the most kids killed.

Being no stranger to logic that made no sense to me, so I asked google and google told me this.

The Centers for Disease Control, which has began tracking the number and characteristics of women obtaining legal induced abortions since 1969, gives us these numbers. White women, who make up 75% of the female population in the U.S., account for only 55% of all U.S. abortions. Black women, who make up 12.3% of the females in the U.S, account for 35% of all U.S. abortions. "Other races" of women fill out the remaining 12.5% of the female population and account for 10% of all U.S. abortions.1

Now the funny thing is the majority of women here in America, being white or the non minority have more than half of the abortions, putting them in the MAJORITY but the world "only" is used...... So the rest of the races which are the minority make up the other 45% of abortions or the MINORITY of abortions. So by capita, yes a greater percentage of blacks are having abortions than non blacks, BUT the greatest number of abortions flat out are STILL being done by whites. This reminds me of how whites have been spouting off about welfare like blacks have ALWAYS been the problem, when in fact up untill 1996 the majority of welfare recipient were likewise white. Simple google searches people.......

I hope this is a wake up call to some of you and your thought processes. Not only are you not dealing in logic, your mind is clouded by what you THINK is going on because someone with an agenda is telling you to think like that. Smoke and mirrors people, what you think you see is not always what is really going on.

White girls are getting more abortions than any other race, plain and simple, they are just more discreate about it, they are hiding it because white america fights more than any other race to keep an image of superiority and more holy than thou, because of this societal "no-no's" fall on the heads of minorities even if they are not to "blame". Time to wake up

__________________
even ADULTS need TOYS
icq: 3 6 3 2 6 6 6 7 | aim: conglomorateman
open for business, affiliates and friendships

GatorB

And I agree with you. I'm no a democrat by any means. I have been a registered republican before though so I feel I can speak on how they are. Fact is though many more Dems are more willing to vote for the Green Party than Republicans are wiling to vote Libertarian. In which TRUE Republicans should be voting Libertarian and not the sham that is the current GOP which was highjacked by the Jesus freaks many years ago.

kane

I really don't think it would be that bad for him. His approval rating is already at or around 35%. Really the only people left that think he is a doing a good job is religous right. I saw an article a while back that showed around 41% of the country is pro life and 54% of the country is pro-choice ( I guess the last 5% are undecided) so I don't think those that are pro-life would be all to upset to see abortion made illegal.

GatorB

Do you even READ before responding? As I said those people that want non-white babies go to other countries. WHY, when there are many non-white babies HERE in America? The majority of people that adopt are WHITE they do not want BLACK babies. At least not AMERICAN black babies. Now if you go by the stat someone posted that 35% of abortions are by black women and there are 1 million abortions performed a year and you ban abortion then who is going to pay for the care of the 350,000 black babies that will NOT get adopted because no one wants them? The TAX PAYER.

sherie

This is an excellent post!

__________________
AIM sherierocks
ICQ 127-296-286
Skype traffichor

spunkmaster

This thread has turned in to a Democrat convention

Both Parties are 90% retards and have a bunch of sheep following
them and it's the rest of the 20% who decide any national election.

__________________

kane

Also lets not forget that the election is what it really seems. You have to take a few things into consideration. About 20% of the country is on the far christian right and about 20% are on the far hardcore left and the rest fall somewhere in the middle. the main difference is that the far right is organized and they vote. Where the left often does not. Kerry is a great example of this. He boasted about how they registers a record number of new voters during the last campaign expecting them to do as they did Clinton and vote for him. They didn't vote against him, they just didn't vote. Only about 50% of the people eligible to vote actually do so.

Example: If you have 100,000 people that are eligible to vote around 20K of them are on the far right 20K on the far left and the remaining 60K are in the middle. So only 50K of these people will vote so the candidate only needs to get 25,001 votes to win. You have to assume that around 80-85% of the far right will vote so that puts 16K in the republican pocket where the left will only end up with 10K right out of the gates. So the repubs always have less ground to make up. There is a reason that the republicans (at least in the last couple of elections) hope for low voter turnout. the fewer voters the better their odds because they know their base will turn out.

If anything a ban on abortion would give the base of the party a shot in the arm and fire it up again. they are getting what they want, a conservative court, a ban on abortion, money given to faith based charities instead of netrual charities, why would the waver from this?

What I'm getting at is that to say the country elected bush twice is not 100% accurate. the conservative right elected bush and the rest of the country didn't care enough to stop it.

GatorB

The other 20% vote for one of the 2 idiotic parties so they aren't any less of sheep. 50% don't even vote, yet bitch when things don't go their way. So they are stupid too. So basically most Americans are in fact stupid.

stickyfingerz

That is one state. I was saying the way I 'thought' it should be. Are you blaming Bush for a bill that was written solely to challenge and hopefully overturn Roe v. Wade? written not by Bush?

stickyfingerz

So I guess you are saying you like the fact that Bush cut taxes then right?

GatorB

Does Bush support it? yep.

Just like if you said you supported CP. Even though you may never even have seen or particpated in CP or done anything with a child ever it still makes you just as sick. PERIOD.