duh!! everybody already knows the shit was a set up!

You're a moron. Put smoke in a tube then push pressure down and see where the smoke comes out. Those "explosions" are floors begining to collapse. Omg Choppers? Ya could be news choppers could they? Maybe they are ufo's? :1orglaugh

Thats the dumbest video ever. What a joke.

Thats the difference between protecting the institutions of our democratic way of life or just plain politics. The Clinton waste of money and time fiasco was all about politics. And, by the way, he WAS impeached, he just wasn't convicted by a majority in the Senate to remove him from office.
Ok, the sand is waiting for you to stick your head back into it.

within 9 sec the whole steel infrastructure was taken down from a fire? This is not common sense and it never happened in any building in the world before or after wtc while many such fires had occured and even bigger ones. Here it happened twice and I don't see the reason to laugh to valid questions.

the word conspiracy is used to make real issues sound light and often not valid. What exactly is a conspiracy? We are talking about an act and a series of possible lies that followed it. Your biggest mistake is to take things as granted. What's more? To believe your freedom and life has value those above you. Well guess what, it doesn't.

Ehm.... he's capable to read maps?!?

That's what I hate about conspiracy people, they won't ask the obvious questions. Instead they pick some off the wall bullshit to start in about.

If ignorance is bliss you must be one happy motherfucker. No that is not "common fucking sense" it's exactly what has been fed to you by the media / government and is in fact the opposite of common sense.

if you are interested in that 9/11 thing
take a look at MM Farenheit 911

you have to be kidding...no one can be as dense as you are trying tolook here

lol I love the part "the weight accumulated". Where did the weight come from, it wasn't there already? :1orglaugh

its not like they are in on the crime so why refuse to see it.

what about the part where pieces of metl weighing hundreds of tons were ejected and sent hundreds of meters away..lol
falling objects fall straight down...not up and out

Well, it's always been pretty obvious the building were brought down. Trying to get that through somebody's head who takes what the media says as gospel is impossible though. Fires do not make buildings collapse. Even big fires at the top of buildings don't make buildings collapse. If you had this discussion on September 10th there would be 1000 experts laughing at the idea. :upsidedow

Err, not exactly.

There are a LOT of holes in the theories suggested by this video, but the most obvious is simply that for all the excellent points there IS no smoking gun. If you critically analyze the points they make, the cracks will appear.

The film suggests nothing short of a massive conspiracy that if you break it down, there is no possible way it could have been pulled off without one shred of *indisputable* evidence it occurred. (Windows blowing out of the WTC and explosion noises are *not* indisputable, for example!)

The plane that went down in the field is the most ridiculous example - do you really believe all of that scenario they suggested could have been pulled off, including the fake phone calls to families, making the real plane disappear, and shooting a missile into the Pentagon? Come on.

Remember, this is the same gov't that couldn't save a few thousand people from New Orleans ...
:Oh crap

Even if this is true, who's to say the terrorists didn't plant the explosives before the attack? Perhaps to be sure the planes collapsed for the most dramatic (and lethal) effect?

Y'know Mr. Cheney, you should stop coming to GFY disguised as a pornmeister. It just isn't working anymore.

9/11 is NOT a government conspiracy. It's a CRIMINAL conspiracy. The only government conspiracy is in covering up the facts to cover up asses who were incompetent.

There IS overwhelming evidence and now PROOF that SOME governments and our own government had people who were using their positions of influence who LET 9/11 happen. These people are members of specialized groups OUTSIDE of government control who used their positions to take advantage of the situation. Bush and his administration got caught in the maelstrom and took advantage of it to further these groups' and their plans at domination. These are money groups and narcotics and weapons dealers. People who make their money from chaos and mayhem. The terrorists planned their assault by looking at the lax of competence and security already in place. Why were their laxes in security? Because it was profitable to launder money, sell and transport narcotics and weapons and slave/prostitution labor. If any of you are old enough to remember the old GI Joe cartoon series where COBRA had an international group of gangsters you get the picture.

Everybody was doing something dirty and letting somebody slide. While our attention was on Clinton getting a blowjob and what rap star shot who, what Britney and Justin were doing, we got fucked up the ass with both flags waving.

A conspiracy of stupidity is at hand.

It was nothing more than a big ass bank robbery like the Depression, WWI and WWII. Events shaped and orchestrated by people and groups within and without government to undermine the citenzry for profit and position.

Two massive buildings collapsing from a fire? Are you on medical drugs or something? There are buildings 500 years old that have been gutted by fires and none collapsed. Buildings do NOT collapse from fires. The twin towers were built in THREE sections each to triple protect them from collapse. The explanation of fire and weight causing them to collapse is so absurd it's not even worth entertaining. If those towers were that vulnerable then for the past 30 years since their construction that means every fucking inspection, state and federal were inadequately performed. 30 years of fucked up inspections? Who paid whom?

The explosions that brought those towers down came from only one or two sources. Either built in at some point to make sure if a disaster occured they could be pulled or someone planted precise explosives prior to 9/11 or the planes had bombs on board. None of these makes sense but neither does how every safeguard fell apart at that time.

On the contrary, there IS a smoking gun. I've posted it any numerous times:


http://www.democracynow.org/article..../08/10/1346254

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibel_Edmonds

http://www.justacitizen.com/

This is the ONLY explanation that makes sense and it's true because it's been validated by our own government by their admission that the information entailed is valid.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...6357&q=history

And here's another one detailing the history of conspiracies regarding money and especially the Federal Reserve which is about as 'Federal' as the crack of my ass.

Ground Zero http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie....+BAKER%2FFEMA

Pentagon
http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...ENT+OF+DEFENSE

From PM
FACT: Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"
************************************************** ****
Conspiracy Wackjobs please read: http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...tml?page=6&c=y
(Note the photos are are sourced as well as the commentary. Each quote is verifiable by individual and organization.

Can you say the same for your stupid video???????

I thought this crap with the banning of the the chksht.. Apparently there are an endless supply of nutjobs on GFY to replace him.

Why is it so hard to believe that there are a bunch of Islamo Facists who want to kill us .... rather than a vast conspiracy involving the government, media , and airlines. Pretty obvious that most people in politics are incapable of keeping ANY secret given the amount of leaks these days.

:disgust

Does it matter? The government has denied 4000505 times ANY explosives. Instead they stick to their retarded story that is near impossible to swallow. You also mentioned making planes disappear above, I think it's a lot easier to make one disappear when nobody is looking for it than to make one disappear at a crash site.

Yes i did. I watched this video made with wikipedia, google earth and blog articles. What a joke. Not a single evidence in this video. He is just filming some documents, no real witnesses, nothing ... just some stupid theories to entertain wackos addicted to conspiracy delusions.

And if the hijackers are alive and well, just bring them in front of a camera. It's been 5 years and none of them appeared on TV. With all these conspiracy theorists and anti-american journalists around the world, if they were alive we would have seen these guys already. It would be so fucking easy to prove this.

good post gregb

this is not a govt crime, this is a crime commited by criminals and it doesn't even require the corruption of more than a dozen people in certain positions. When you get after this attack your president and vice president straightfully and with no-doubt show a single direction, with no evidences and you know there's something wrong you swallow it and you do not question it.

Republicans are in fault because they do not question the simplest things and they limit themselves on making smart ass comments. You fools this is your own country, what kind of patriotic bs you've been claim when you put your personal ego above your country?

Unless there were explosives planted on specific placements of WTC towers these 2 buildings would be impossible to collapse in 9 sec or so like they did. Airplanes or whatever it was it didn't touch more than small sections of the upper part of them. Under normal conditions both towers would have been reconstructed regardless the size of the damage.

We'tr all fucked.. Time to over throw the Goverments.

I've read 10000 pages on both sides of the argument. I think conspiracy theorists are nuts that have to dillute their films with so much bullshit even open minded people blow them off. However, there are points mixed in all that garbage that cannot be argued. The fact that the WTC buildings could not have collapsed from an impact / fire of a plane is 1 of many.

i was just waiting someone to comment on wiki pedia used. If out of all these the only thing you have to tell me is that wikipedia was used to reffer on 3 occurrences with no real value then be it.

Now we got the antiamerican comments again. The easy gateway. This reminds me a redux of 2001 gfy posts. I think you are living in a televised reality. If your attitude reflects that you don't really give a shit on what really happened/s, but what you want to hear; bear in mind the rest and largest part of the world doesn't give a pile of shits for it.

people who refuse to believe the truth are beneath us...we should look for ways to exploit them...they obviously dont mind

:thumbsup thhough not being a structual engineer i dont really know if its possible or not , but i do know it hasn't happened before or since 9/11

Some of the funny "false" facts on the video, really dilute the message. When they are talking to an eyewitness to the flight 91 crash he is saying " no wreckage no smoke" meanwhile the video in the background shows both wreckage and smoke..

The airlines stock thing is another "misinformation". Stocks dont really do "averages" well some do , but airlines stock doesnt really do "averages" one day they might be up 10% the next down 10% ( in trading not price ). Its clear that whomever made those stock sells only profited 2 million.. not exactly incentive to kill thousands of people i would like to see the average "puts" on american airlines throughout the year. If it did show a "trend" then i might re-think that theory , but it doesnt hold up under scrutiny

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

You're fucking joking right? :1orglaugh

Imagine that. Simple logical explanations to wacko conspiracy nutjubs tinfoil hat theories. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Read this page for why they collapsed.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...tml?page=4&c=y

who knows just sucks what happend

What are Gitmo and Bagram for ???

Why are there some " ghost" prisoners in " secret" prison ... operated by a nation promoting freedom and democracy ????

i agree with the first part of your statement... the last however is wrong. it can be argued.

the video points out that no building like this has ever collapsed due to fire... but the video also fails to admit that no building of this size has ever experienced this type of fire and this type of fire fueled by 1000's of gallons of aviation fuel. the b-52 that crashed into the empire state building is a much smaller plane, with only a fraction of the fuel and there is no comparison structurally between the WCT and Empire State Building being that the WTC is very unique in its design. you don't have to be a noble prize winning scientist to know that you can't say its not possible because its never happened when there are no direct and similar comparisons to be made.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
The collapse of both World Trade Center towers--and the smaller WTC 7 a few hours later--initially surprised even some experts. But subsequent studies have shown that the WTC's structural integrity was destroyed by intense fire as well as the severe damage inflicted by the planes. That explanation hasn't swayed conspiracy theorists, who contend that all three buildings were wired with explosives in advance and razed in a series of controlled demolitions.






Widespread Damage
CLAIM: The first hijacked plane crashed through the 94th to the 98th floors of the World Trade Center's 110-story North Tower; the second jet slammed into the 78th to the 84th floors of the 110-story South Tower. The impact and ensuing fires disrupted elevator service in both buildings. Plus, the lobbies of both buildings were visibly damaged before the towers collapsed. "There is NO WAY the impact of the jet caused such widespread damage 80 stories below," claims a posting on the San Diego Independent Media Center Web site (sandiego.indymedia.org). "It is OBVIOUS and irrefutable that OTHER EXPLOSIVES (... such as concussion bombs) HAD ALREADY BEEN DETONATED in the lower levels of tower one at the same time as the plane crash."

FACT: Following up on a May 2002 preliminary report by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), a major study will be released in spring 2005 by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), a branch of the U.S. Department of Commerce. NIST shared its initial findings with PM and made its lead researcher available to our team of reporters.

The NIST investigation revealed that plane debris sliced through the utility shafts at the North Tower's core, creating a conduit for burning jet fuel--and fiery destruction throughout the building. "It's very hard to document where the fuel went," says Forman Williams, a NIST adviser and a combustion expert, "but if it's atomized and combustible and gets to an ignition source, it'll go off."

Burning fuel traveling down the elevator shafts would have disrupted the elevator systems and caused extensive damage to the lobbies. NIST heard first-person testimony that "some elevators slammed right down" to the ground floor. "The doors cracked open on the lobby floor and flames came out and people died," says James Quintiere, an engineering professor at the University of Maryland and a NIST adviser. A similar observation was made in the French documentary "9/11," by Jules and Gedeon Naudet. As Jules Naudet entered the North Tower lobby, minutes after the first aircraft struck, he saw victims on fire, a scene he found too horrific to film.


"Melted" Steel
CLAIM: "We have been lied to," announces the Web site AttackOnAmerica.net. "The first lie was that the load of fuel from the aircraft was the cause of structural failure. No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC."

FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength--and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."

the list of prisoners has been released by court order. get over yourself. seems the democracy and legal system work pretty well and bush is not actually the undisputed ruler of the universe.

After court battles, SOME names have been released from Gitmo, but only those that were subject to procedures . If nothing was done in respect for a detainee, nothing shows. Check it out.

Since this administration has lost most of its battle after courts render decisions ( still amazing that you have to sue for everytrhing ...), they now ship prisonners in Bagram ( Afghanistan ) where they are out of jurisdiction ....

" Heck of a job, democracy " :thumbsup

almost all names were released. i was just listening to a story about it on NPR yesterday. don't you get tired of hating america on messageboards all day everyday? do you ever break up the monotony with a nice walk or good meal or actually stepping away from teh computer?

1) FYI, I am just back from 3 weeks holiday.
2) I posted less than you in this and other threads, and less than Shittyfingersdotnet...
3) Why is stating facts that you acknowledge considered " Anti-American" ? Are you ashamed ?

Now you say " almost " .. that is what I pointed to after your claim that :

I just corrected your erroneous information and spreading of it...

Now, for my point on Bagram:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlates...648878,00.html

So is showing this anti-american... If so, this means that America stands for torture, deprived rights, kidnapping , murder and so on...

Fine with me, just stop abusing the words FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY, ok.

Did a plane fly into the third tower too? I won't even argue with you about this because I am way too tired to go dig up information on the subject of steel beams melting from heat or how buildings fall in real life but it is out there. So simply list their explanation for the third building collapsing, I'll roll around on the floor laughing and we'll call it a day. :1orglaugh