Fucking always some bullshit!!! Legal advice!!

[spacedog]

Fucking circus my life is becoming. Having a bad day & I need legal advice.

Yeah, yeah, I know this isn't no place for that sort of thing, but figured i'd ask for opinions anyway, just in case anyone's ever been in a similar situation.


Here's the scoop.

My wife & I made a verbal agreement to purchase this minivan from one of her coworkers. I told her, this woman I was unable to purchase the vehicle as I had a choice to either pay my current active insurance policy on my existing vehicle which was a shitbox that needed to be replace, hence the need to buy the minivan. So, told her, If I buy the van, then the insurance don't get paid, & I wouldnt be able to use the van, therefore, no point in buying it if it was going to create such problems, so, she agreed to accept a payment plan. Great, but then she refuses to sign over & furnish the title. I tell her I need the title to transfer my insurance & plates from the shitbox to the van. She tells me the insurance & registration in her name on the van is legal & valid & that she will keep it registered & insured until she gives me the title when I finish with my final payment.


Ok, now to the problem. I'm a little more than half paid. The van is having transmission problems & the transmission may end up failing completely & need replacement & cost over $1200.
When took possession of this van, she says absolutely nothing was wrong with it. I had this van since the day before thanksgiving.

Now to the part where I need legal advice... Today the police showed up at my house because earlier a neighbor witnessed my wife & I yelling at each other outside, before leaving in van... (Pregnant mood swings & hormonal ) So, police run plate as result of nosy neighbor creating drama & shit, & so police are telling me that I may be charged with driving unregistered & uninsured. Now, I am pissed upon hearing this, as this was the sole motivating factor in causing me to change my mind about agreeing to buy this van..

I just got off the phone with her, & now she is giving me a ration of shit about a payment, and mind you I would actually be a full payment ahead & paid up to date til this coming friday had she not been so fucking retarded & stupid in regards to not knowing how to cash a money order I presented to her. She gave me the money order back, so now I am actually a week behind on payments because I told her she now has to wait for me to get refund on the money order as it was already written and signed, etc...

Now, I decided I am not paying another single cent until I get the title, & she is threatening on coming to take the van, and also claims if we do not give it back to her, that she will report it stolen??

I told her if she wants the van back, I want my money back, no exceptions.. she said no, that she does not have it??


what do you think? What options do I have? Can she really report it stolen, when I didnt even steal it? Now I can't do shit with it.. Can't drive illegally with no registration and insurance, can't get this in my name without her giving me the title!

Help!!??!?

[Sly]

She could report it stolen. Then you can go to court and straighten everything out, where the judge will mutter under his breath how stupid you both were.

So she kept the title and insurance as "collateral" so you pay up? I guess she didn't think about what would happen if you got in an accident and killed somebody.

[spacedog]

Originally Posted by Sly

She could report it stolen. Then you can go to court and straighten everything out, where the judge will mutter under his breath how stupid you both were.

So she kept the title and insurance as "collateral" so you pay up? I guess she didn't think about what would happen if you got in an accident and killed somebody.

Yeah, i figured if it ever came down to that, the judge would sort it all out, but in the mean time, I need to figure out the options & my rights legally so I don't have to go through no life wrecking ordeal like getting arrested for auto theft... It's not like she takes me to court, they'll just come arrest my ass I think, if she just calls & reports it stolen?


Maybe I should take the monetary loss & go put sawdust in the oil & fuck the transmission up some more & tell her to come get it.. I'm fucking mad as hell.. I need that van.. I junked the shitboxes & my 69 pontiac isnt running.

[lazycash]

Did you write down any kind of an agreement with her or was everything oral? I can see her point in keeping the title, but don't think it was smart to just keep her as the insurer on it. Why not just write her a check and cash the money order yourself. Also sounds like the transmission is a tough thing and that maybe you and her should split the cost.

[studiocritic]

the time to get a lawyer was before you entered into an unwritten sales agreement. if you're in the US, the uniform commercial code will govern most of this (depending on the amount, i forget the threshhold).

call an attorney and ask if he can just give you a free phone consultation for a case that you're "about to need representation for".

honestly im quite sure he's going to tell you you're screwed. what kind of records do you have of the payments?

you gave her money orders, apparently, not checks - so you have little to no evidence you paid her.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by spacedog

Maybe I should take the monetary loss & go put sawdust in the oil & fuck the transmission up some more & tell her to come get it.. I'm fucking mad as hell.. I need that van.. I junked the shitboxes & my 69 pontiac isnt running.

Do that and the judge will make you buy her another van.

[biftek]

i'd say your pretty much screwed if she pulls the "stolen vehicle " did you get receipts for payements made even though they wont help much unless it states on the receipt what the money was for

the transmission is more your problem , her story was saying that it was running fine until it screwed up while in your possesion

[stevo]

Verbal agreements mean absolutely nothing in the court of law. She could say there is nothing wrong with the vehicle, but if you don't have that in writing that fact does not matter. You should always have a used vehicle checked before purchasing it. There is nothing in writing so you basically buy the vehicle as is, but im not sure about lemon laws on used vehicles. You have no evidence that the transmission went bed before you purchased it, so she could claim you caused it to go bad.

Was the payment plan in writing? If so, than you are forced to pay, otherwise she has the right to take the vehicle back without returning any funds. And if she sells it for less, she can even sue you for deficiency!

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/carrepo.htm

[WebDork]

Cant afford it, dont buy it ?

[Baker Rd]

Couldn't you have listed her as a leinholder and registered the vehicle in your name? Very stupid move on your part to take the vehicle under those circumstances. And you have absolutely nothing in writing?

[GigoloMason]

Either way a verbal contract won't hold for the sale of goods over $500. Legally that needs to be in writing, unless you can estblish criteria estopping her from denying the contract you're fucked

[Relish XXX]

YOu as good as brought it as seen so the transmission has nothing to do with her. In court she would say that she thought it was alright but then she isnt a mechanic. She did try to help you by letting you pay in installments. In my opinion she did you a favour.

What pecent of the total payments have you made to her?

[baddog]

First things first, where do you live? Most of what you are saying makes it sound as though you are not in the US, and neither of you have much legal knowledge.

A brief analysis says if you don't pay, she can take it back. Almost sounds to me like you should probably bail, give it back and consider the monies paid to date as rental fees.

Used cars are usually sold AS IS, so if the transmission takes a dive 2 or 3 months later, she has no liability.

[SmokeyTheBear]

you basically as everyone is pointing out , did everything wrong..

Insurance/registration despite what many people believe dont cover "anyone" to drive it.. insurance only usually covers the driver who is the insurer , nobody else, otherwise people with shitty driving records would just get other people to insure their car..

Verbal agreements are almost useless , unless it was said in front of a judge . dont even bother trying.

I dont blame her for wanting her cash before the title is handed over , but if you dont trust a person to do so then dont make financial agreements verbally. Why would you expect her to sign over the title without you paying... i realise you feel gyped about the mechanical problems , but shit happens , its very likely if the vehicle is over 5 years old that it worked fine and did just happen to break while you used it.. cant charge her for that , its not like she told you or you expected that every piece on the car came with a warranty.

Its a minivan if its anything older than 10 years its not worth 2k just consider it an expensive lease and tell your friend to take it back you cant afford it.. it sucks but besides the financial burdone being released an emotional burder ( the lady ) will also vanish.. dump iut , dump her , dont do verbal financial agreements of any kind..

[Baker Rd]

I would also agree, cut your losses now and dump the car back on her. It will mostly likely cause her more grief in the end especially if the transmission is about to go. You don't have a leg to stand on.

[baddog]

As far as signing over the title before it is paid in full, are you nuts? Would you?

[Deej]

Ouch man.... your out a minivan.... baddog is right, give it back and consider it rent.....how much have you payed on it already??

hopefully you can find something else to buy and make it a legit deal with writting ;)

[iwantchixx]

give the van back, wash your hands of her and buy another vehicle.

[Linguist]

You're screwed bro, should have taken a lien on the van... much simpler and less problems for both parties involved.

[BVF]

Originally Posted by stevo

Verbal agreements mean absolutely nothing in the court of law.

wrong...if it can be proven that a verbal agreement was made then it's just as binding as a written contract..

You never studied basic contract law?

[spunkmaster]

"Verbal agreements mean absolutely nothing in the court of law."

If he was smart enough to pay her with some checks and not just money orders and he can prove she cashed the checks then he can win in court no problem.

If he was really smart he would have sritten on the checks (payment #1 of 24 on Van) etc..

[lyn1]

You're a dead man walking on this deal.

Firstly, a contract whether it be verbal or written, if it is illegal or improperly drawn-up, the contract will fail any test. With the issues on insurance and registration the contract is very grey unless you don't drive the vehicle.

Second point - The fact that you have been making regular payments (and no doubt you have proof of this with cheques or electronic transfers), you can establish a basis for a verbal contract, especially if it come down in court that you say/she say basis.

The gearbox isn't an issue - have you heard of 'caveat emptor' (let the buyer beware).

Thirdly. If you listen to Jesus H Christ and leave the car in a bad area and the car is damaged then you are responsible as blind freddy (including a judge) would understand your intent. A no no. Shame on you Jesus for this ridiculous advice.

Fourth and final point - If you can establish a verbal contract, the seller can as well and is within her rights to reposses the car if you fail to meet payments. If you make a payment outside the agreed arrangement, then you suffer the penalty. If the car is repossessed and it is damaged - all the losses are recoverable from you.

Nasty stuff as you can see. I would put on my diplomatic outfit and go and try to negotiate out of this mess. If I was a betting person. My money would go on the person that has title.

Lyn from oz.

[stevo]

parol evidence rule - if there is evidence in writing (such as a signed contract) the terms of the contract cannot be altered by evidence of oral (parol) agreements purporting to change, explain or contradict the written document.

Anything said orally leading up to the contract, can't be used in a courtroom.

Verbal agreements are hard to prove. Make sure you have all the details in writing.

[spacedog]

well, she came today, started arguing about wanting my next payment, which is not due til friday, when I told her she's not getting shit from me til I find out what's going on with the police who have not made a decision yet regarding wether or not I am going to be charged for driving unregistered & uninsured. She got mad, told me she wants it back. I told her no, that she will not get it back without going to court because she has been getting paid, and that all payments are up to date. She then says she's calling the police.

Now I am one step ahead of her. I called the police myself. According to the detective I spoke to, as long as I have one reciept for any of the payments, this establishes the fact that I was making payments to her for the vehicle and if she files a report claiming the vehicle stolen, she will be arrested for filing a false report , as the vehicle is not by legal definition, stolen.

[circlekhabib]

so the van is a little2rich4u?