that kind of sounds like ynot payment, but they call you

I signed up with them right when they started. After a week i startet to check my fhg database for 404's and guess what :) All MM FHG's were 404 for me. I didn't change the links to new ones, i just deleted MM from my database.

about 99.9% of sponsor programs fuck their affiliates over with that! :disgust

Yeah, I found a few who were setting cookies to expire too quickly too - that's a fucking rip off. They should go to jail for that shit. Especially when like 50% of your unique traffic will return the next day. I've been using google analytics on a few sites to analyze how traffic behaves, and you'd be amazed at how much return traffic is still viable for sales...It can be as low as 25% return the next day, but still...

without the dirty little secrets most programs would just simply die! They wouldn't make money at all. The only reason a ton of shitty programs are still around is because they use those little tricks and gimmics, they make money of your traffic and they don't credit you.

Most webmasters think that US traffic is the only GOLD traffic, that is the only traffic that purchases memberships and etc. They are fed this bullshit story that only people in USA have VISAs/Mastercards that are approved by merchants online.

A lot of sponsors out there use DIALERS on their pages. Me and you never see those dialers but belive me people in Europe; Germany, Italy, Britan, Switzerland... (some of the ones with best rates per call or per minute) see those dialers. Yes those MODEMS do dial long distance phone numberS!!!

You never see any credits for dialers and minutes and connections. While a guy from Italy can be connected for 20 minutes, Lets say Italy is $2 EURO per minute. You do the calculations. Do some re-search, get some proxies, meet some people in europe, get'm to check pages :) ...

Not many DIALER programs still around? WHy? Cuz they are the fuckign secret of this business. Most sponsors use them and they know how well they are worth it.

e-mail boxes don't bother me, 2257 pages links don't bother me, cookies don't bother me AS MUCH as the no credit for Dial-up sales bother me!

Agreed on the dialers! Here's another one. If a program has unexpected downtime, sometimes even expected downtime due to scheduled server maintenence, many will often not bother to notify affiliates before, during or after it happens. Every notice a period in the day, or god forbid a few days, when your stats just show nothing - bingo.

I suspect some programs just think that most of their affiliates will not notice it so why bother letting them know about it. Others might be afraid that affiliates would pull their links and not put them back up. Probably their biggest concern is that affiliates will expect or request compensation for downtime and their running on too tight a margins to afford to offer such.

If it is a short outage, it is usually not too big a deal for most affilaites but if you are spending 100s or 1000s a day on PPC ads or elsewhere and you are not periodically monitoring their servers, you can be screwed pretty quick by such a routine occurance.

I know I get way more sales then usual on RAINY days (big Rain over US/Canada), when most people are @ home and on their PCs! I hate it when a sponsor's sites "go down" on rainy days even if they admit it or not. Just the un-credited money they make that day is enough for months.

my pet peeve is websites that put a "WEBMASTERS" link at the bottom of your linking pages but dont pass along your ref code..

It's getting to the point where we have to

1. Download their tours and host them ourselves, cleaning up all the leaks, errors and crap and then link to their join page. Then if we wanted we could put in our own pop-ups with our own link codes.

2. Download all the FHGs, clean them up and then link to our own tours.

That would cut out a lot of the crap they pull.

Gee.. Sort of sounds more and more like the old days. i.e. as they've been doing more and more work for the affiliates, they've been screwing them in the process... :1orglaugh

I discovered quite a few, not only using dialers, but redirecting foreign traffic to another site out of the network. I have been using proxies & I am making a list. Every single sponsor I find redirecting foreign traffic is going to be published on this list, and that list is getting posted on every single webmaster board on the net. I was extremely fucking pissed when I found out that one of the larger, more well known companies was doing this and made it my personal oath to personally hand check every single one of them using reflinks & proxies, and bet your fucking ass that if it is redirected, they're going on the list & the whole industry is going to find out. They have no fucking business doing anything at all with my traffic except selling a fucking membership to the site I sent it to. But, no, they fucking send it off elsewhere and that pisses me fucking off real bad. As far as I'm concerned, GONE are the programs that promote ANYTHING AT ALL that is not their own sites!!! I'm done promoting shit sites designed to upsell to somebody else's shit.

Woj. :upsidedow

I know of one very big GFY poster (that everyone here seems to love) who operates a program that has in the past fucked around with affiliate cookies when he ran big payout bonus days. This is especially problematic since the type of site in question usually isn't sold on the first visit.


Another fairly well known program overwrites affiliate cookies if the surfer comes back through a typein. As soon as they click enter on the warning page, the affiliate cookie is changed to their in-house code.


Paysite URLs on banners. This isn't pay per impression, so I don't know why so many affiliates go along with giving them free brand building.


Non-recurring billing option on revshare sites. $30/mo recurring, or $35-$40 non. The idea here is that a really good paysite knows the non-recurring member will join again right away, and they'll only have to pay the affiliate for that first month. This scam has really started to grow among sponsors recently.


Cascading billing, but affiliate payouts limited to the main biller. There can also be secondary billing options that affiliates don't see credit for.


Severe over-branding on FHG's. They put the URL all over the pace hoping the surfer will just do a typein so they can defraud affiliates out of their traffic.


Ref ID doesn't appear in the bookmarked URL. This is a HUGE problem.


No pay for join page upsells. I don't really have a problem with this on PPS, but revshare needs to be paid out if the upsells go to the same sponsor.


No affiliate notification when a revshare site isn't going to be updated any longer.


Revshare sites that aggressively promote other sites in their network in the members area, but affiliates don't see credit if the surfer leaves for one of these other sites. I just had to deal with a revshare site that apparantly hasn't been updated in months, so they are upselling one of their good sites to it's members.


A links page pointing to various offerings from other companies. The idea here is that everyone in the ring puts up a similar page, and they each get stolen affiliate traffic from one another. This can also be done in the form of sending affiliate traffic to seemingly innocent link lists and whatnot.

You pointed out two of my biggest pet peeves:

High minimum payouts. 100$ is usually no big deal unless I figure out their conversions suddenly suck ass once you are getting near the minimum payout and it takes 5,000 uniques for one sale! That is what gets me.

Anything over 100$ minimum payout is truly ridiculous. Read what I found in an affiliate program I signed up for. Don't get me wrong, it's a pretty good program. But it's going to take me at least a few months to hit their minimum payout, especially since I'm new:

The minimum payout is $500. If this amount is not reached in one month the amount will be carried over to the next month(s) untill it is reached.

If you can believe that!

And my other pet peeve is putting their site URL on the banners. BIG NO NO. If they are clicking the banner and going to your site with my code, that is the way it should be. They should not be seeing your URL and typing it in. NOT when it's coming from my pages! I DO NOT put banners with the URL on it anywhere on any of my sites

lotsa great ones there , program owners take note..

Why don't you just get some bulk content deal from me, use my free hosting you can get when you order content, take some of the more than 200k in traffic we get to our network, and even get hooked up with billing through me and you are all set. YOu are now your own boss and your future is in your own hands. Click the sig to get started.

Switch to a lower limit.....pimproll.com is $25 minimum - weekly payout.

what he said.

my main gripe is constant changing of console chain..........

one day its one pop - next its 6 - hard as hell to get out of.

If a surfer dont buy on first pop i want him back to use him for my benefit.

a couple of things I 'don't like':

* Minimum payouts. If there isn't an option to set it to '0', I hate it. (Some sponsors even have different minimums for US and international webmasters: $100 minimum for US webmasters, $200, $500 or higher minimums for international webmasters...)

* Putting a 'webmaster' link on your paysites without my ref code <-- hate it.

* Some sponsors sell your details to spammers. Recently I found out A*P*C* and W*W*C* were doing this. dropped them immediately .

* 'broken' FHGs.

* Adding a 'Logo'-watermark to your content is fine, adding a url-watermark to your content (FHGs) is not.

* redirects of any kind.

* using cookies to track sales. (not getting paid for nocookie traffic)

* Some sponsors like P*P* won't pay you for webmasters referrals if you don't actively promote them yourself.

I hope Lars paid for your sig, because I just typed-in the urls I saw on the banner ;-)))

You should have said that programs wheren't allowed to post befor page 2 or 3, that would have made it much more interesting *lol*

Anyways, nice twist to have to write about what we dont have..
At RewardThem :
-we don't have mail collection boxes.
-we don't have popups.
-we don't have minimum payouts.
-we don't have any changing of your reff codes.
-we don't have redirects by country or otherwise.
-we don't have traffic leaks or promotion of other sites.
-we don't have exits, and no crosssells eigther.
-We haven't shut any sites or tours down, or redirected any links.
-we don't have anything in frames.
-we don't use dialers (Do use CCbill's phone billing though)
-Refferal link passes on to all sites, including our program site so if surfer goes from paysite1 to paysite2 you still get credited, or if a webmaster clicks your reff code to paysite1 then go to program site, you will get credit for a reffered webmaster.
- We don't change affiliate cookies or cut your affiliate id out (we even encurage in our faq's to check up on us, by checking for your affiliate ID on the join page, and by doing test signups)
- we don't have "dead" members areas, we constantly buy new content for our sites and keep them updated with new stuff.

We are "guilty" of :
- putting url's on our banners.. This is for the simple reason that if we just had a banner saying "Go To Hot Asian Site" this banner could be used to any asian site out there instead of being used to promote the site it was made for, however If you don't like this you are welcome to make your own banners with our promo content.
- Having a Non-recurring billing option, this is higher priced than the normal join though and due to that rarely used, this is in such a low number that i must admit i haven't checked If any of those have later rejoined, but even if so we are talking about something bellow 1% of total revenue so it would be pretty much unnotisable at the affiliate end anyways.

Actually the reason for starting RewardThem was that i at the time was so fed up with sponsor programs and all the bullshit (Mail collecting and Popups where much used then) and wanted to make a program concentrated on selling the site landed on instead of bombing the surfer on to the next site.. naturally all the things i was pissed at in programs at that time I have done everything to avoid adding to RewardThem, keeping in mind to respect both customers and affiliates and don't cut edges to make a few extra bucks on their expence.
We don't give you all the bells and whistles other programs might do, you do have to do some work yourself to make money off our program and we don't run huge promos giving away cars and shit for free, as in the end we all know that someone will still be paying for it.

Well, hope i didn't miss any, even though not many will probably read this long a post anyways :1orglaugh

I Never Ever Ever Ever Ever Ever Ever Promote Paysites That Steal Your Back Button And Trap You In A Endless Loop. That Shit Should Be Considered "unethical Business Practices"! I Can Name Many Many Many Many That Do This Bullshit!

because everyone knows that sobe is a scamming fuckwad and will take anything you don't tie down

I'm still confused about what a "unique" hit is.
I'm even confused what a "raw" hit is sometimes.

What I show in my own stats, custom built for click tracking, are 50-80% off from what many affiliates show. I've just learned to try and ignore it, because it's so prevalent, and, well.... perhaps what my idea of a "unique" is different from what a "unique" really is.

*shrug*

Good one. As has been previously suggested in another thread, take the time to setup a "catchall" type email address at one of your domains and when you sign up for a new sponsor, provide an address such as programname[randomnumber]@yourdomain.com so you can track which program sold your address or had its database "stolen".

On a related note, some sponsors will provide ratios based on 2nd page or join page "hits" instead of uniques to the landing page in order to make your ratio look better. If they provide ratios like this in addition to ones ratio of unques to the landing page that is helpful but to do it instead of a ratio for uniques to the landing page is just silly and obvious to even the newest webmaster.

reading this thread again makes me happy I am doing more and more out of the "affiliate arena".

I hate stats-shaving. Most of the sponsors count 2nd page hits or even join hits. You can never understand if a sponsor is converting good or not.

Now i use a script that counts all hits to all galleries, so i don't care :)
For me it's gallery-hits/1$ rate. But i was shocked that some of the sponsors that were my favorite turned out to be rather bad...

can't wait for the list, thats gonna be major drama, make sure to include proof, ie screenshots :)

using someone elses host. let me see. FUCK NO!! :1orglaugh nice try :)

How about sponsor popups that take over the original browser window your site was in. Most surfers will simply close the window out of habit before realizing they closed your site. Or launching a popup offset far to the right so the close button is missing knowing that some users will not know how to close the window. Or shaking the window quickly so that it is hard to move your mouse over the X to close it.

Some surfers will assume your site had something to do with these things and thus will never return to your site while others may realize it is not your site doing it but may not return either thinking that you linked to these sponsors knowing this was taking place.

Our sites at Adult Elite are 100% console free, period.

We have no email collection boxes.

You get primary or secondary processor credit.

No GeoIP or Dialer redirection ever.

Low minimum payout threshold, and weekly payout.

Track real first page Raws and Uniques.

Use NO COOKIES. None. Ever. Cookies suck. If you send the sale, you close the sale, you get credit for the sale. Thats how it should be. Can someone here even answer: how many of your sales have ever been from cookied traffic?

Branding on creatives is not prominent. Its there sometimes, but it's not blinking in red in size 7 font.

The only link on our 2257 page is a clickable link to our legal dept. email.

Our "looking for something else" link on the tours carries your code, with a campiagn code too so you can track if people even click it.

Our "webmastes" link on tours does not carry any code. We want you to refer new webmasters, not new surfers. Traffic from these links is far less likely to generate a webmaster than your own webmaster pages. FAR less likely.

We dont even email our members past the initial email after a successful join. We could, but choose not to! Email is more troublesome than it is profitable. We dont allow even can-spam compliant mailers to send traffic, and we dont email our own members.

The only issues I've seen with any of our FHG's is broken images when a server is choking or something. Annoying, but no nasty popup hells to everywhere in the world.

Hmm what else.. damn people theres a lot of points in this thread lol.
BTW: all of these points applies to PimpRoll as well, except with PimpRoll you can choose console, or console free. And on the point of exit consoles, the person who said that linking to other sponsors on an exit is a dirty trick, should realise that sponsors trade exit traffic! It's why payouts are higher on console links. It's something you can choose, or not choose as you see fit.

:pimp

This is what I want in a sponsor:

SPONSORS WANTED:

I'd like to find someone who will recruit hot new 18 year old girls that are willing to model nude, then pay her and take her pictures, then update her website regularly and host it on a super reliable, ultrafast server. Also, you'll need to buy lots of extra picture and video content so I won't lose a rebill too soon. Can you also make sure I get credit if my signup quits but comes back later as a typein?

I'd also like you to cover all the legal expenses, processing costs, and pay the visa registration fees. But don't send me a 1099, I don't want all that tax liablility!

I'd like you to provide full page ads, banners (odd-sizes work best for me), and maybe even agree to pay my hosting bill. And I'll need lots of free content. Not the same free content you give everyone, I need new exclusive content just for me. I'll need hosted picture and movie galleries too, on a fast server. Can your hottest girl make me a fansign? I want to tell all my buddies I fucked her! Better yet, can I just have sex with her first, to see if she's worthy of my traffic?

On your free content, don't write your url anywhere. and don't put too many ads on them, my surfers don't like ads. Can you submit all your newest hosted galleries to all the TGPS with my affiliate code for me?

I'd like you to throw huge parties where I can drink myself silly, while I oggle your hot girls and generally make an ass of myself. I'm gonna need a rug to put out my cigarette on. And a wall to kick a hole in. I get silly sometimes.

I want you to take me to strip clubs, and I want you to buy me lapdances all night long. If I host a convention, I'll expect you to sponsor it (and if there aren't enough of naked chicks, I'm going to tell everyone it was a sausage fest!)

I'll need you to buy a banner spot and post regularly on my obscure message board.

I want you to do all that for no more than 40% of the net revenue that her site generates. I don't want a minimum payout, send me a check for 25 cents if I earned it. Instant payouts would be best, I don't like to wait for my money. I don't care if you have to, thats your problem.

I might even ask you to prepay me even if I can't get her site to convert. And you can pay me by check, but I tend to lose them, so you'll need to be willing to re-issue the ones I lose. But going to the bank is such a hassle, could I just have a wire instead? You'll need to eat the wire fees. Or Epassporte, can you set me up with an account? I don't want to pay for it though, so just add their fees to my payout too, ok?

Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention that I'm going to accuse you of shaving and cheating if I can't convert any traffic at 1:500 or better. If you are a day late on my payment, I will publicly crucify you. And I'm gonna need a constant supply of new sites from you, I get tired of looking at the old ones after a couple weeks.

And you better not take a day off, if I try to icq you and you are not there within a few minutes, I'm dropping my links! And no matter how few sales I send, I expect you to drop everything and talk to me as long as I want. I'll need lots of advice and support, you don't mind do you?

I want reward points and christmas cards are nice too. Fly me to a convention and pay for my room. But it better be a suite, I need space. Give me bonuses and prizes. And hookers, lots of 'em. Don't forget I'll also need a non-expiring password to your sites too for "educational" purposes. When I promote your site, I want to be able to say anything to the surfer to make a sale, I don't care if its true or not, pleasing the surfer is your problem.

I'm gonna need a cool baseball jersey customized with my name and favorite number on the back...

And no matter what you do for me, I might just decide to try someone else's program for a while, cuz you are probably making too much money anyway on typeins and upsells... And if you get someone else pushing your sites, I'm going to drop you completely, because then you'll be "over saturated".

Oh yeah, and you are gonna need lots of sites, and I want to be paid on sales to all of them from your exits. Better yet, I'll require no-console linking codes, cuz I hate popups. But don't even think about paying me less for my joins. And FUCK crosssells, unless I'm paid for those too.

You'll need to join the lawsuit against Acacia, I don't care how much it costs. But if you settle, I'll tear you apart on the boards and recommend that everyone boycotts you. Can you cover my membership to FSC too?

And I want to lump you in with all the scammers and scumballs that have ever made money on the net. I don't care if you are honest, I have to blame someone for a bad week, and its gonna be you.

Oh yeah, and for your 40%, I want to be able to break my promises anytime, I really don't want you to be able to rely on me. I'll send you traffic when I fucking feel like it. But if you break one of YOUR promises to ME, I'll drop you and move on. Actually, I'll just move on anyway, cuz my attention span is short, and there is always someone willing to do more for me than you.

i think the biggest problem with many of the items listed in this thread is disclosure.

Having a 500 minimum payout is not the problem, but if it's not prominently listed during the signup, it's a trick.
Same goes for exit consoles.. just like PR Tom said, your payout is higher, everyone who's been in the biz for a while would know that, but it would still need to be stated in the terms.. that you don't get 100% exit credit (if you do not)

In the end it's about choice from each affiliate, YOU choose a partner in an affiliate program, so you should do the due dilligence, and not rely on the information that is fed to you with promo days, and nice flash banner ads :)

My :2 cents:

Yes these programs are banking on thousands and thousands of webmasters only earning $99

Well said.
Reminds me of the "bigdog" post about affiliates wanting sponsors to lick their ass (paraphrased).

And I have to agree with the sarcasm.

I do a "sideline" site (in sig) for shits and grins and to teach myself stuff. I only know of working with sponsors from what I do from that. I do most of the "work" myself and sometimes feel embarrassed when I read about affiliates requesting so much.

Yes, affiliates provide traffic and joins to sponsors. But I also think, out of the thousands of affiliates who "demand" additional stuff from a sponsor, only 1 or 2 or worth additional effort.

However, some of the shady / shifty shit some sponsors pull is just wrong.

hehehe nice rant

www.adultlabel.com doesnt do anything bad apart from the owners participating in gang bangs in hotels in Vegas. Although affiliates are more than welcome to participate in the depravity.

wow did someone snap? are you being sarcastic?

This is a huge issue with me. Nothing irritates me more then sending a days worth of paid traffic to a program that is down. 90% don't bother to even let you know about it. Either they fear issues like you mentioned above or just assume every single affiliate just sends TGP traffic. I expect to be compensated in some way for even a couple hours of down time. Sadly I am usualy the first person to even notify programs that they are down (they don't even realize it).