profit margins on pay per signup programs?

[bigdog]

what do you guys think are the profit margins of the large pps programs?
$5,$10,$15 a join?

[donnie]

$35 if they pay you $35

Every join is worth around $70

[kmanrox]

im sorry but real business threads are not tolerated here



lol

[bigdog]

Originally Posted by donnie

$35 if they pay you $35

Every join is worth around $70

that would be a tidy profit

[David - PG]

Somebody bump that Jason and Alex thread. It undeniably explained how making money w/ PPS was a fairy tale lol

[Nicky]

The way they make money is cross sales upsells and shaving.....

[Manowar]

Originally Posted by David - PG

Somebody bump that Jason and Alex thread. It undeniably explained how making money w/ PPS was a fairy tale lol

[bigdog]

Originally Posted by David - PG

Somebody bump that Jason and Alex thread. It undeniably explained how making money w/ PPS was a fairy tale lol

haha i have bumped that thread twice

[Alex From San Diego]

You all mock what you don't understand...LOL

[Phoenix]

profit margins are not as high as some would think.

a join is worth 70 bucks?

maybe 4 years ago

[PR_Dave]

Originally Posted by donnie

$35 if they pay you $35

Every join is worth around $70

I WISH LOL!!

5 years ago yes.

Today, hell no.

[Alex From San Diego]

70.00 applies to the old saying of "One for you, two for me."

[donnie]

Originally Posted by PR_Dave

I WISH LOL!!

5 years ago yes.

Today, hell no.

I speak from the experience.
This is the number for our sites:
Gross per member $68.37

[donnie]

Originally Posted by David - PG

Somebody bump that Jason and Alex thread. It undeniably explained how making money w/ PPS was a fairy tale lol

When "jason and alex" was sold, the new owner said a join is worth about $70 and that is why he bought it

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by donnie

I speak from the experience.
This is the number for our sites:
Gross per member $68.37

you have no trials.

[Dalai lama]

Depends per site/program/members area.

[Toolz]

$68 for no trials sounds doable, $39.95 per w/ 1.7 avg retention.

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by donnie

$35 if they pay you $35

Every join is worth around $70

maybe with no trials and some extreme niche

[AmateurFlix]

Sponsors make alot of their sales from type-ins, expired cookies etc from traffic that affiliates have introduced to the site and later don't get credit for - having run a paysite myself I saw this firsthand.

If all they're looking at is the revenue from each tracked signup, of course it's going to be a low number... but this isn't taking into account all the 'free' untracked sales that are sent which they never have to pay an affiliate fee for.

I had even considered bumping my program up to 100% payouts at one point because I knew all of the untracked referrals would still have generated a nice profit - so I think it's safe to say that PPS sponsors are probably doing quite well, with the exception of the ludicrously high payouts ($50-70) or PPS on 3.95 trial memberships etc.

[sfera]

goog shit to know

[bigdog]

Originally Posted by AmateurFlix

Sponsors make alot of their sales from type-ins, expired cookies etc from traffic that affiliates have introduced to the site and later don't get credit for - having run a paysite myself I saw this firsthand.

If all they're looking at is the revenue from each tracked signup, of course it's going to be a low number... but this isn't taking into account all the 'free' untracked sales that are sent which they never have to pay an affiliate fee for.

I had even considered bumping my program up to 100% payouts at one point because I knew all of the untracked referrals would still have generated a nice profit - so I think it's safe to say that PPS sponsors are probably doing quite well, with the exception of the ludicrously high payouts ($50-70) or PPS on 3.95 trial memberships etc.

Another way to make money is from returninig members.When you have great content like a bangbros or perfectgonzo you got a lot of members returning to join every couple months.

[Gator]

Originally Posted by Nicky

The way they make money is cross sales upsells and shaving.....

And don't forget the consoles on ENTRANCE.

[AmateurFlix]

Originally Posted by bigdog

Another way to make money is from returninig members.When you have great content like a bangbros or perfectgonzo you got a lot of members returning to join every couple months.

lightspeed credits affiliates for those sales

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by AmateurFlix

Sponsors make alot of their sales from type-ins, expired cookies etc from traffic that affiliates have introduced to the site and later don't get credit for - having run a paysite myself I saw this firsthand.

I pay affiliates if the surfer signs up within 3 months...so I dont get much from the above revenue.

[AmateurFlix]

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

I pay affiliates if the surfer signs up within 3 months...so I dont get much from the above revenue.

not to imply that you're doing anything deceptive, because this is just the nature of tracking mechanisms, but there's still a ton of no cookie traffic, people who've cleared cookies, people with privacy programs, etc; not counting the occasional glitches at the processor that for whatever reason don't credit a valid referral...

so lenthening the cookie expiration is helpful to affiliates (and you should be commended for doing so), but there's still a ton of 'unmarked' traffic

btw, regarding my example above, I had cookies on my program set to the maximum ccbill allowed

[bigdog]

Originally Posted by Alex From San Diego

70.00 applies to the old saying of "One for you, two for me."

thats funny

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by AmateurFlix

not to imply that you're doing anything deceptive, because this is just the nature of tracking mechanisms, but there's still a ton of no cookie traffic, people who've cleared cookies, people with privacy programs, etc; not counting the occasional glitches at the processor that for whatever reason don't credit a valid referral...

so lenthening the cookie expiration is helpful to affiliates (and you should be commended for doing so), but there's still a ton of 'unmarked' traffic

btw, regarding my example above, I had cookies on my program set to the maximum ccbill allowed

ccbill doesnt use the cookie method only, but also the IP method. So both together they are pretty accurate. For sure more than most of the cascading programs out there.

[pornguy]

Originally Posted by donnie

I speak from the experience.
This is the number for our sites:
Gross per member $68.37

* coughing into hand * Bullshit! ** Cough Cough **

[pornguy]

The best way to pay the aff a high amount, is to still make some yourself. on a 24.99 sale the aff makes 20, and we make 4.99. Then on the rebill of 34.99 the aff gets 20 again, and we get 14.99

Works well for both of us, and the aff gets the rebill for the life of the customer. And we have two affiliates that have several customers each that have rebilled for 6 months plus each.

[AmateurFlix]

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

ccbill doesnt use the cookie method only, but also the IP method. So both together they are pretty accurate. For sure more than most of the cascading programs out there.

the IP tracking doesn't help with the instances of type-ins, bookmarks etc that I mentioned... I suppose a few people might have static IP's but most of them change every time someone logs on to their ISP, or every few hours; so that really doesn't help very much.

Cascading systems like NATS will at least encode tracking into the url if someone bookmarks a site, such as domain.com/trackingcode/ - this way it is not dependant on a cookie or an IP. It doesn't help with type ins, but since most sites have the cookie expire after 3 days (unlike yours) the cookie tracking is not very effective anyway for most sites.

I've always had better ratios as an affiliate with cascading systems than any direct to ccbill program, even for programs that still use ccbill as a primary processor within their system.

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by AmateurFlix

I've always had better ratios as an affiliate with cascading systems than any direct to ccbill program, even for programs that still use ccbill as a primary processor within their system.

but isnt that interresting? Even with a back-up processor, you cant make more than +10%, because denials arent that high. So more likely, its a different way of counting hits with the cascading software.

[bigdog]

Originally Posted by pornguy

The best way to pay the aff a high amount, is to still make some yourself. on a 24.99 sale the aff makes 20, and we make 4.99. Then on the rebill of 34.99 the aff gets 20 again, and we get 14.99

Works well for both of us, and the aff gets the rebill for the life of the customer. And we have two affiliates that have several customers each that have rebilled for 6 months plus each.

you have a unquie payout structure

[AmateurFlix]

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

but isnt that interresting? Even with a back-up processor, you cant make more than +10%, because denials arent that high. So more likely, its a different way of counting hits with the cascading software.

no, my point was that cascading systems like NATS usually get superior ratios because they encode the affiliate code in the URL, this has nothing to do with the matters of processing denials - though as you say it can be improved with a backup processor, or better yet a watchful sponsor that switches the primary and secondary processors when one appears to be scrubbing more on any particular day...

[pornguy]

Originally Posted by bigdog

you have a unquie payout structure

Not really. there are others that do this as well. But it is the lure of easy money that brings in the people that promote the bigger programs. They just cast all thought of shaving etc out the window, because 30 to 50$ is alot more appealing.

[chadglni]

Originally Posted by AmateurFlix

Sponsors make alot of their sales from type-ins, expired cookies etc from traffic that affiliates have introduced to the site and later don't get credit for - having run a paysite myself I saw this firsthand.

If all they're looking at is the revenue from each tracked signup, of course it's going to be a low number... but this isn't taking into account all the 'free' untracked sales that are sent which they never have to pay an affiliate fee for.

I had even considered bumping my program up to 100% payouts at one point because I knew all of the untracked referrals would still have generated a nice profit - so I think it's safe to say that PPS sponsors are probably doing quite well, with the exception of the ludicrously high payouts ($50-70) or PPS on 3.95 trial memberships etc.

Finally. Please tell these people what % of your sales come from no referrer traffic. Thanks.

[AmateurFlix]

Originally Posted by chadglni

Finally. Please tell these people what % of your sales come from no referrer traffic. Thanks.

well I haven't had my site up since that 2257 stuff passed last june (it was just too much paperwork for a small site like mine), however if memory serves it was somewhere around 60% or so.

On a per click basis I was making about 8x as much as the best affiliate program I was promoting at the time; not that my site was that great of quality (it was mostly bargainbasementcontent photos and sobe videos - stuff I could easily afford at the time), but because of the reasons I mentioned above.

I was constantly trying to improve the tour, making changes etc, and when I would finish with a stage I'd test it out by posting galleries for a few days in a row to generate some quick sales and compare to prior results. Usually I'd have some memberships come in during that first week or so of getting listed on TGP's, however the vast majority of sales would come in during the weeks following with no referrer.

I could only conclude that people were viewing the galleries, checking out the tour, maybe bookmarking the site or making a mental note of the url, then coming back weeks later to buy a membership.

[chadglni]

Originally Posted by AmateurFlix

well I haven't had my site up since that 2257 stuff passed last june (it was just too much paperwork for a small site like mine), however if memory serves it was somewhere around 60% or so.

On a per click basis I was making about 8x as much as the best affiliate program I was promoting at the time; not that my site was that great of quality (it was mostly bargainbasementcontent photos and sobe videos - stuff I could easily afford at the time), but because of the reasons I mentioned above.

I was constantly trying to improve the tour, making changes etc, and when I would finish with a stage I'd test it out by posting galleries for a few days in a row to generate some quick sales and compare to prior results. Usually I'd have some memberships come in during that first week or so of getting listed on TGP's, however the vast majority of sales would come in during the weeks following with no referrer.

I could only conclude that people were viewing the galleries, checking out the tour, maybe bookmarking the site or making a mental note of the url, then coming back weeks later to buy a membership.

Yes they do. I've argued this fact in several threads discussing how PPS programs just have to shave to make a profit but of course no program owners are going to back up the statements. Thank you.

[TheHatchet]

initially, (-30.25) - Based on a 4.75 trial. Its what you do with it after that makes the difference.

[donnie]

Originally Posted by pornguy

* coughing into hand * Bullshit! ** Cough Cough **

Why is it a bullshit???

If you can get anyone from CCBILL into this thread I give them my permission to verify/deny the number I posted.

I have no reason to give you fake numbers. We don't have an affiliate program and I don't want any affiliates.

[slapass]

The average signup has to be worth about 60-70 bucks or how would all these hot cars get sold? Not to mention paysites have expenses other then affiliates.

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by AmateurFlix

however if memory serves it was somewhere around 60% or so.

I hope you are not serious...or is nats crediting that bad?

[chadglni]

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

I hope you are not serious...or is nats crediting that bad?

What does Nats have to do with it? Different IP's, different locations, direct type ins, months later = no credit.

[AmateurFlix]

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

I hope you are not serious...or is nats crediting that bad?

this was for my own ccbill processed site, NATS had nothing to do with this

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by AmateurFlix

this was for my own ccbill processed site, NATS had nothing to do with this

you said you did credit the affiliate within the max. period of time, thats 180 days, correct? 60% is impossible then even for the best site in the world.

[TheJimmy]

I think Nick or Brad, or one of the old timers put it well the other day in a discussion about mainstream counting more sales, whereas in adult there are 'accidental' misses in counting signups, call it planned technical ineptitude, or whatever you like, but it exists lol

........and of course the almighty branding/typein/return traffic acquired as stated in post #36 here seriously

[AmateurFlix]

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

you said you did credit the affiliate within the max. period of time, thats 180 days, correct? 60% is impossible then even for the best site in the world.

please read the post more thoroughly - my point is that cookies get lost, not tracked correctly, deleted, etc and are a very unreliable method of tracking previous visitors... that is why so many unreferred visitors show up in the stats when "in theory" they should have been tracked by a cookie

I'm not saying this to slam ccbill or any programs using them, it's just a limitation of the technology - and it benefits site owners.

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by AmateurFlix

please read the post more thoroughly - my point is that cookies get lost, not tracked correctly, deleted, etc and are a very unreliable method of tracking previous visitors... that is why so many unreferred visitors show up in the stats when "in theory" they should have been tracked by a cookie

I'm not saying this to slam ccbill or any programs using them, it's just a limitation of the technology - and it benefits site owners.

thats what made me curious...10% of my sales are not tracked and most has to be returning visitors or my own sales, when I send the surfers directly to the main page without a link code...so the tracking is almost perfect. epoch US and epoch EU has to work the same way

[TheDoc]

If you have a site that half retains, a recurring program and a pps program will profit about the same amount of money. The only difference is the pps program has to have the cash to pay the money up front and be able to wait many many months to start earning a profit.

It is easier to get webmasters to push and continue to push a pps program.

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

If you have a site that half retains, a recurring program and a pps program will profit about the same amount of money. The only difference is the pps program has to have the cash to pay the money up front and be able to wait many many months to start earning a profit.

It is easier to get webmasters to push and continue to push a pps program.

But you need much more sales for a PPS program to be as profitable as a recurring program + a PPS program has to be a program with trials, that means, less $$$ first(much more less, lets compare a $2 membership with a $30 membership), if you dont make enough (much above the average or you have to fuck the surfer over some way) rebills, you are fucked.

[AmateurFlix]

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

But you need much more sales for a PPS program to be as profitable as a recurring program + a PPS program has to be a program with trials, that means, less $$$ first(much more less, lets compare a $2 membership with a $30 membership), if you dont make enough (much above the average or you have to fuck the surfer over some way) rebills, you are fucked.

so the ones that don't use trial options and have a PPS payout that is only slightly above the normal cost of a membership are still going to make out very well because of all the no referrer traffic that gets sent to them from affiliates