kmanrox

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,48781,00.html

WASHINGTON ? Eight major corporations are expected to be named Tuesday in an unprecedented lawsuit that seeks payback for the companies' historical ties to the slave trade over 137 years ago.


New York slave reparations activist Deadria Farmer-Paellmann is seeking unspecified damages in a suit that names Aetna Inc., CSX Corp. and FleetBoston Financial Corp., among others, as unjustly profiting from the slave trade before the Civil War ended in 1865.

"We targeted these industries because the plaintiff can show a direct linkage between the plaintiff and her descendants," said attorney Ed Fagen of Fagen and Associates, one of the firms working for Farmer-Paellmann. Farmer-Paellmann would not take any questions, referring all calls to another firm, Thomas, Wareham & Richards.

"I don't think that it will prevail," said Fox News senior judicial analyst Andrew Napolitano. "It's inconceivable that someone alive or enjoying this wealth today had anything to do with it 150 years ago."

Fagen said three complaints will be filed Tuesday in New York and New Jersey implicating eight companies. Among the three already named, Hartford-based Aetna, at the prompting of Farmer-Paellmann, has admitted that it insured slaves for slave owners.

Two years ago, the company, which has given over $36 million to the black community and hosts an annual symposium on race at its corporate offices, apologized.

"Aetna has long acknowledged that for several years shortly after its founding in 1853, that the company may have insured the lives of slaves," the firm said in March 2000. "We express our deep regret over any participation at all in this deplorable practice."

On Monday, Aetna responded to the news of the pending lawsuit. "We do not believe a court would permit a lawsuit over events which ? however regrettable ? occurred hundreds of years ago," a statement released by the company said. "These issues in no way reflect Aetna today."

CSX also issued a statement late Monday.

"The claimants named CSX because slave labor was used to construct portions of some U.S. rail lines under the political and legal system in place more than a century before CSX was formed in 1980. The lawsuit to be filed in federal court in New York City against CSX and other corporations demanding financial reparations is wholly without merit and should be dismissed," it said.

A spokeswoman for FleetBoston said the company would not comment until it has seen the lawsuit.

Though Farmer-Paellmann's suit is the first of its kind, it's unlikely to be the last. According to reports, a Washington-based group that includes O.J. Simpson attorney Johnnie Cochran, Harvard University professor Cornel West, and Columbia scholar Manning Marable, has already developed a list of targeted corporations.

Those include New York Life, AIG, J.P. Morgan Chase Manhattan Bank, as well as Aetna and FleetBoston.

Media publishers who once printed ads for slave owners have also been fingered by reparations advocates, as have major colleges and universities ? including Harvard and Yale ? whose many early benefactors were documented slave owners.

"It?s safe to assume that these are the first steps and ongoing research as we speak is being done on a variety of institutions, public and private," said Marable, who said blacks continue to suffer in the private sector by experiencing higher insurance and mortgage rates from companies whose equity was raised on the backs of slaves.

"To me it?s not fundamentally about the money, it is about the truth of history and bringing the truth to light, which will promote a frank and honest discussion across the racial divide," he said.

Critics say the companies being targeted look nothing like they did almost a century and a half ago and that shareholders today weren?t even alive when the slave trade took place so they shouldn?t be held responsible for past evils.

"The real problem is they are publicly traded companies, and they cannot afford the publicity. It?s a form of shakedown, extortion. The companies today are completely different from the companies they are talking about in the past; the people who will get the money are people who aren?t slaves," said scholar David Horowitz, who recently released Uncivil Wars: The Controversy over Reparations for Slavery.

But Joyce A. Ladner, a senior fellow with the Brookings Institute and author of The New Urban Leaders, said even if they don't succeed, the suit will have made its point.

"This case does two things, it educates the larger public about the role that institutions played in slavery," she said, and it "redresses old grievances" by tying specific harm to companies and the government.

"These lawyers ? and they are some of the finest legal minds in America ? know that this is basically a frivolous lawsuit that will not succeed, but to the extent that they can stir the pot and get us to talk about this and maybe create this fund for scholarships and maybe get an apology from Congress, they will have accomplished their purpose," Napolitano said.

12clicks

give them their money and send them home.


then we'll see how bad they really have it.

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Cheshire

Hands down these corporations were involved in something now deemed immoral, but were they ever participating in something that was illegal at the time?

She's have a better chance taking them before Larry Elder on the Moral Court T.V. show, where it pays to be right.
'Your conduct is deemed outrageous, $2000 to the accuser!'

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just a little bit naughty

SykkBoy

hell yes

oops, slavery...I misread that as Slayer....

Slayer fucking owns....Kerry King is God (er, the Devil ;))) was reading on metalsludge.com that he fucks like he plays guitar...I wonder if he wears his Stone Cold 3:16 shirt while boffing Slayer groupies....I wonder what Kerry King thinks of slaver...

WWKKD? What would Kerry King Do?

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AdultWire

I just want my 40 acres. You can keep the mule.

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Slick

Yeah, sure, lets get this court case going. All of the people that were slaves at one time can personally go to court and sue these companies.

It's fucking low how all of these people try to jump on the bandwagon to take in some money. Most of the people that want the money are probably great great grandkids. They weren't put into slavery, so fuck em.

Also, Chesire is 100% right. At the time, there was no law against it and once there was a law, it ended, so what's the crime ??

Dawgy

god im sick of lazy ass fucking idiots trying to profit off the misfortunes of their ancestors. just because some distant relative of their was a slave 200 years ago they think that today's society owes them something.

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FATPad

Yes, I'm responsible.

I'll free the slaves I own tomorrow and give them recommendations for wherever they try to get jobs to help them along.

I hope this makes up for all the hardships I've inflicted upon these people.

Dawgy

yeah... u know most people that i know arent racist. they dont give a damn about skin color or anything else. but they cant help but constantly think about it, because these supposed "victims" of racism are constantly talking about how oppressed they are.

now tell me, who is REALLY prolonging racism?

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Gemini

The courts would be very foolish to set precedence in this case in ANY form of acceptance. If they do, all the rest of the blacks, causcasians, Asians and hispanics among others will pay through the nose. There is a large group that owned this WHOLE freaking country, Canada etc etc that would file suit next. Then we'd ALL go home. Genocide and slavery were commited against them as well.

AdultWire

I dunno.. black people have been trying to get retribution for slavery since it occoured, and were promised retribution, and later denied. Do you really think that just because these companies managed to profit from slavery for 200 years, that they should continue to be able to re-invest that money to earn a living today?

No offense, but I think your heads are in your asses, and I think your ivory tower has left you oblivious to the real world impact that slavery has had on society today.

But I wouldn't expect you to want to understand.

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Frank W

Unlike Holocaust reparations or Japanese internment reparations all of the perpetrators and victims of US slavery are dead. While one can argue that corporate perpetrators [under US Law corporations have infinite lifespans until dissolved] are still around, these entities were working in a historical period and legal system where slavery was legal.

I don't really see much upshot in these talks of reparations except perhaps feeding an attitude that history owes certain segments of the population something for "being oppressed."

Just a brief look at history shows that most cultures were at certain times both oppressors and oppressed. Should there be reparations? Should Italians give reparations to former members of the Roman Imperium? Should Spaniards [modern day descendents of the Vandals--at least in the Andalusian region] give reparations to Italians? Should African tribes give reparations to each other due to hundreds of years of intertribal slave raiding?

Reparation is not rooted in history as much as it tries to prositute it. Reparation is purely political just as foreign aid. As a US cabinet secretary said recently, over the years, the US has poured BILLIONS into "aid" with very little to show for it.

The malcontents that reparations are aimed at satiating will always find another gripe to champion. Instead of thinking in terms of reparations, why not expend that energy into creating a free market of ideas free from bias that readily rewards those who have the cunning, ambition, creativity and drive to rise above regardless of color, gender, sexual orientation, or religion.

Just my

Gary

I own slaves and im not giving them up. They used to work the fields but now they build tgp galleries all day.

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Nedder

Lets pay reparations to SLAYER for being one of the best bands in the last 20 years and never getting their due!!!

Nz

eRock

Just give retributions for any living former slaves....

LiveDose

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daddy bone

a lot of these people who continue to bring up shit like this forget to realize that if it had not been for slavery they would probably not be living in the US today.
I get sick and tired of hearing that me, as a white man, is responsible for what my ancestors did 200 years ago.

Get over it my ancestors were poor and worked the damn fields also.

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PORNKINGS

[illnet]-Romeo

Retribution??
Ever here of affirmative action??? aka reverse discrimination..

And you seem to be missing the point that these companies were involved in a practice that was legal in this country at the time. When it was deemed illegal they had stoped. Seeking retrobution for something done within the law at the time will and should never hold any value in the court of law. just my

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Brian at Jbwebcash.com

12clicks

hey dopey, my ancestors were slaves of the romans. I even think some of my family were eaten by lions.
Italy makes millions of dollars showing off the stadium my ancestors were killed in. Italy owes me reparations but I'm sure your head is so far up your ass that you won't agree.

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Slick

Yeah, very good point there. What we should to to make up for it is to send the ones complaining about it, back over to Africa because if it wasn't for slavery, that's where they'd be, so we'll make it right, that way

Slick

Shit happens, if they don't like it, they can GO FUCK THEMSELVES !!

12clicks

the real world impact is that it doubled the murder rate in the US by adding 10% to its population.

I think the government owes the white man reparations for putting his life at greater risk.

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kmanrox

i have many afro-american close, friends, but i must say, this lawsuit is pretty unmerited....

does this mean that the US constitution should be nullified because it was written by slave-owners? and that the estates of all the authors should be sued as well?

if there are people still alive who participated in these terrible acts, and some of the recipients of these atrocities are still alive, let the doers, PAY the do-ees... by all means....

i mean, if they found out my great grandfather murdered someone a long time ago, i cant get put in prison for what he did can i? why? because i did not do it...

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FATPad

My great grandfather was killed by someone and when I find that someone's descendant I'm gonna own everything he owns right now.

Dualcpu

Correct, I am sure everyone can find a reason to sue the government. Maybe the descendants of the Inca's are going to sue the Spanish government for killing their people in the 15/16th century?

Bulker

Tornado

Slavery may have occurred a long time ago. However, Institutional RACISM is very much alive in our world!! Particularly in the USA. Please keep in mind that any time the US Goverment makes monetary reparations to a specific group, the money is derived from taxes paid by US Citizens. Including members of said group. Just something to think about. As a Black US citizen I think the money would be of more benefit if it is used to bring down the barriers that still exist today. I'd rather have equal access and opportunity today than to be paid off for shit that happened years ago and then be expected to shut the fuck up after i get my check. Just my

GregP

god im sick of lazy ass fucking idiots trying to profit off the misfortunes of their ancestors. just because some distant relative of their was a slave 200 years ago they think that today's society owes them something.

----------------------------
I agree

Thumbelina

I am hoping that no one from the British Isles comes to sue my Viking ass for my ancestors "Love Cruise"

Where does it all end?

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LiveDose

What we should do is just divide up all of the money which jesse jackson has obtained through extortion and blackmail from spineless corporations. Give each of these whiney bitches a piece of the pie.

Then we'll all get together in a big circle and sing "kumbayah".




I have many black, "african american" whatever you wanna say friends and none of them agree with this. As usual it is just a few whiney bitches stirring this up. If you want to live in this country get off your damn ass and get a job or get an idea and get paid. Begging is for the weak of heart and weak of mind and this is begging, plain & simple.

My Dad is Japanese and we are still waiting for our check since some of his countrymen were locked up in internment camps during WWII. Where the fuck is our check!

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LiveDose

1 - 2 - 3 KICK IT!!!


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Oh Lord! Kum ba yah!

Oh I need you, Lord, Kum ba yah!
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Oh I need you, Lord, Kum ba yah!
Oh Lord! Kum ba yah!

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Warphead

Everytime there's an issue like this tons of white people get offended. These are the same white people that hate political correctness, they want everyone to say what they think unless it's something that bothers them. You want to tell racist jokes but if a black guy complains abot slavery you get all shocked and outraged.

Think about it, I mean why are you guys pissed off about it? Do you own stock in these companies? You keep pointing out that these people aren't the ones that were slaves, well you're not the ones that are getting sued.

I don't care at all. I honestly don't give a fuck. They can break those companies up and split them among every black and chinese immigrant whose blood built it and chances are I won't even know it. I don't give a fuck. If anything I like something that fucks the big corporations that our taxes support although they routinely fuck us (the average joes).

You guys need to stop whining about the whining of others. Conversions are down, anything that redistributes the wealth to more people will boost the economy and get my banners clicked.

FATPad

Wait a second...does this mean Men can now file a class action suit against Women for what Eve did to Adam?

If it wasn't for Eve we'd all be living in the Garden Of Eden now and there would be no problems at all.

I think the blacks should sue women instead. Go to the heart of the world's problems and sue the people responsible for getting us kicked out of paradise.

hyper

Let state first i am far from being a racist.

My opinion these people should be happy their ancestors were brought here as slaves.

If they were not, 99% of the people trying to get retribution would still be living in Africa, Starving and dying of AIDS

kmanrox

bawahahahahaha

any lawyers on this board that are down for it, i am ready to file suit, hit me up

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Bulker

WHY THE FUCK DO THEY WANT REPIRATIONS.. I THOUGHT WELFARE WAS BACKPAY FOR SLAVERY??

Zebra

What if you went back in time and killed your great-great-great grandfather and got your great-great-great grandmother pregnant?

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Old School

kmanrox

i htink boneprone is responsible for everything

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AdultWire

This is not a fair comparison. You're comparing individuals to a corporation which under US law is a legal entity, and which HAS flourished from the murder and enslavement of blacks which has led to the current underpriveledge so common in negro communities.

Oh, well what a fucking priveledge. I'm so happy to be allowed to live in this nation that my great grandparents built with their bare fucking hands. Is this your way of saying "go back to africa?"

I don't think you're responsible.. notice that no-one tried to sue YOU.

I'm sorry you didn't get your check.. I guess that means you were unjustly treated, but negroes are just whiney lazy bitches.

Hey, I'm just repeating what the "non racist" people in this thread have actually said.

I think the trivialization of this issue is attrocious. I'm not saying that I think they should win these cases.. I'm too ignorant to the facts of the cases to be able to make a judgement. But I'm not as ignorant as most of you.

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AdultWire

But they should be happy because now they're ducking bullets while they starve and die of AIDS in America the GREAT!

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^R3K^

Pussy

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kmanrox

Pussy

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kmanrox

oops, i just started advertising for freezinebucks, i retract my last for fear of shaving ;-)

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12clicks

I want reparations because the government ENDED slavery.
do you have any idea how much work I could get done with a pack of slaves?

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Steve

that shit cracks me up

I remember working in Bedford Sty. in Brooklyn, and having black people call me "white devil" when I got out of the truck.

I told them to eat me, my family came over here way after they were freed, I don't owe them a fucking thing. Never heard of Italian cotton barons, or Polish slavers down south, did ya?!


Fuck, I'm so tired of this oppression shit. Every wave of immigrants is fucked for the first generation, get over it. The Irish, the Italians, the Germans, Poles, etc in the 1800's now we get to the Chinese, Indians, Koreans, Vietnamese, the Cubans, the Guatamalans....

all these people hit the USA, bust their ass and what do you know, they intergrate into society, and seem to do pretty good. Big fucking difference in Bed Sty and West New York (heavy duty Cuban population - perhaps second only to Cuba)

pornJester

stop crying...

AdultWire

Oh sorry.. Ithought it said slavery.. SLAYER ROCKS.

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Sly_RJ

Amen man.

My best friend is black, and it pisses me off to no end the minute someone starts talking about "blacks". Who the fuck cares! We got all these people (many and most are black) screaming that people need to look past "color", yet every time you turn around their are Black Sororities or Black Groups. And then we have Halle Berry going crazy because she "opened the gates to black children". Fuck that. They aren't closed. Open your eyes and get a grip on reality. And I absolutely loved how she kept saying "black" "black" "black" "African-American". I think "black" people are much more fixated on "color" than "white" people. On top of all that, her mom is "white"!

Somebody stop me before I have a heart attack.

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Sly_RJ

Who's bullets are they dodging? Surely not mine. Where are they getting AIDS? Surely not from me.

You see, black people aren't the only ones who are murdered. Remember Columbine? And of all the black people who are killed, who's killing them? Ever read the statistics? "Races" kill within their own "races". It's somewhat rare to go outside of your "race".

Again, black people aren't the only ones to have AIDS. In fact, most the people that I have ever met with AIDS were white. So what in the hell are you talking about? I realize that you're disputing another post, but come on man!

Ok, let's talk about me for a second. My ancestors were Irish and German. Came over in the late 1800s on ships. They had very, very little money. I'm sure they were starving and treated poorly on the ships, but I can't say for sure. I'm sure as hell glad they moved here. Why in the hell would I want to be in Ireland or Germany (no offence to any Irish or Germans)? But since I've been here in the States, myself and other people like me have been treated like absolute shit, ignored, segregated, locked up for no reason, and given away as babies. Just last week I was segregated. Last week man! Someone set me aside from the others because of certain characteristics that I have. So, who should I sue? I am being directly affected by something here. It wasn't my ancestors. It was ME. But I won't sue anyone. Why? There's no laws against it right now. When there is laws will I sue? Hell no! Why? Because I don't believe that the general population should be held responsible and liable for something that they have little control over. Just like you should and so should everyone else. Don't you fucking people have brains? Or do you just think about yourself and your fucking pocket book? Talk about fucking ignorance.

Am I pissed because I'm "white" and you may be "black"? Fuck no. I've never heard such a false and stupid accusation. You have to be racist to even make a comment like that. I'm pissed because of fucking stupid Americans trying to find a way to screw someone over for an easy buck. Fucking lazy ass bastards.

Go fuck yourself.

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On-top

The "Reparations for slavery" issue is just like so many others, it doesn't have a real "right" or "wrong" answer or solution...and as time goes on it all just gets more blurred. I did see the following article ran in Playboy a while back, though. I'm not sure of it's accuracy, but it points out a different perspective on the subject.




Ten Reasons Why Reparations for Slavery is a Bad Idea


One

There Is No Single Group Clearly Responsible For The Crime Of Slavery

Black Africans and Arabs were responsible for enslaving the ancestors of African-Americans. There were 3,000 black slave-owners in the ante-bellum United States. Are reparations to be paid by their descendants too?

Two

There Is No One Group That Benefited Exclusively From Its Fruits

The claim for reparations is premised on the false assumption that only whites have benefited from slavery. If slave labor created wealth for Americans, then obviously it has created wealth for black Americans as well, including the descendants of slaves. The GNP of black America is so large that it makes the African-American community the 10th most prosperous "nation" in the world. American blacks on average enjoy per capita incomes in the range of twenty to fifty times that of blacks living in any of the African nations from which they were kidnapped.

Three

Only A Tiny Minority Of White Americans Ever Owned Slaves, And Others Gave Their Lives To Free Them

Only a tiny minority of Americans ever owned slaves. This is true even for those who lived in the ante-bellum South where only one white in five was a slaveholder. Why should their descendants owe a debt? What about the descendants of the 350,000 Union soldiers who died to free the slaves? They gave their lives. What possible moral principle would ask them to pay (through their descendants) again?

Four

America Today Is A Multi-Ethnic Nation and Most Americans Have No Connection (Direct Or Indirect) To Slavery

The two great waves of American immigration occurred after 1880 and then after 1960. What rationale would require Vietnamese boat people, Russian refuseniks, Iranian refugees, and Armenian victims of the Turkish persecution, Jews, Mexicans Greeks, or Polish, Hungarian, Cambodian and Korean victims of Communism, to pay reparations to American blacks?

Five

The Historical Precedents Used To Justify The Reparations Claim Do Not Apply, And The Claim Itself Is Based On Race Not Injury

The historical precedents generally invoked to justify the reparations claim are payments to Jewish survivors of the Holocaust, Japanese-Americans and African- American victims of racial experiments in Tuskegee, or racial outrages in Rosewood and Oklahoma City. But in each case, the recipients of reparations were the direct victims of the injustice or their immediate families. This would be the only case of reparations to people who were not immediately affected and whose sole qualification to receive reparations would be racial. As has already been pointed out, during the slavery era, many blacks were free men or slave-owners themselves, yet the reparations claimants make no distinction between the roles blacks actually played in the injustice itself. Randall Robinson's book on reparations, The Debt, which is the manifesto of the reparations movement is pointedly sub-titled "What America Owes To Blacks." If this is not racism, what is?

Six

The Reparations Argument Is Based On The Unfounded Claim That All African-American Descendants of Slaves Suffer From The Economic Consequences Of Slavery And Discrimination

No evidence-based attempt has been made to prove that living individuals have been adversely affected by a slave system that was ended over 150 years ago. But there is plenty of evidence the hardships that occurred were hardships that individuals could and did overcome. The black middle-class in America is a prosperous community that is now larger in absolute terms than the black underclass. Does its existence not suggest that economic adversity is the result of failures of individual character rather than the lingering after-effects of racial discrimination and a slave system that ceased to exist well over a century ago? West Indian blacks in America are also descended from slaves but their average incomes are equivalent to the average incomes of whites (and nearly 25% higher than the average incomes of American born blacks). How is it that slavery adversely affected one large group of descendants but not the other? How can government be expected to decide an issue that is so subjective - and yet so critical - to the case?

Seven

The Reparations Claim Is One More Attempt To Turn African-Americans Into Victims. It Sends A Damaging Message To The African-American Community.

The renewed sense of grievance -- which is what the claim for reparations will inevitably create -- is neither a constructive nor a helpful message for black leaders to be sending to their communities and to others. To focus the social passions of African-Americans on what some Americans may have done to their ancestors fifty or a hundred and fifty years ago is to burden them with a crippling sense of victim-hood. How are the millions of refugees from tyranny and genocide who are now living in America going to receive these claims, moreover, except as demands for special treatment, an extravagant new handout that is only necessary because some blacks can't seem to locate the ladder of opportunity within reach of others -- many less privileged than themselves?

Eight

Reparations To African Americans Have Already Been Paid

Since the passage of the Civil Rights Acts and the advent of the Great Society in 1965, trillions of dollars in transfer payments have been made to African-Americans in the form of welfare benefits and racial preferences (in contracts, job placements and educational admissions) - all under the rationale of redressing historic racial grievances. It is said that reparations are necessary to achieve a healing between African-Americans and other Americans. If trillion dollar restitutions and a wholesale rewriting of American law (in order to accommodate racial preferences) for African-Americans is not enough to achieve a "healing," what will?

Nine

What About The Debt Blacks Owe To America?

Slavery existed for thousands of years before the Atlantic slave trade was born, and in all societies. But in the thousand years of its existence, there never was an anti-slavery movement until white Christians - Englishmen and Americans -- created one. If not for the anti-slavery attitudes and military power of white Englishmen and Americans, the slave trade would not have been brought to an end. If not for the sacrifices of white soldiers and a white American president who gave his life to sign the Emancipation Proclamation, blacks in America would still be slaves. If not for the dedication of Americans of all ethnicities and colors to a society based on the principle that all men are created equal, blacks in America would not enjoy the highest standard of living of blacks anywhere in the world, and indeed one of the highest standards of living of any people in the world. They would not enjoy the greatest freedoms and the most thoroughly protected individual rights anywhere. Where is the gratitude of black America and its leaders for those gifts?

Ten

The Reparations Claim Is A Separatist Idea That Sets African-Americans Against The Nation That Gave Them Freedom

Blacks were here before the Mayflower. Who is more American than the descendants of African slaves? For the African-American community to isolate itself even further from America is to embark on a course whose implications are troubling. Yet the African-American community has had a long-running flirtation with separatists, nationalists and the political left, who want African-Americans to be no part of America's social contract. African Americans should reject this temptation.

For all America's faults, African-Americans have an enormous stake in their country and its heritage. It is this heritage that is really under attack by the reparations movement. The reparations claim is one more assault on America, conducted by racial separatists and the political left. It is an attack not only on white Americans, but on all Americans -- especially African-Americans.

America's African-American citizens are the richest and most privileged black people alive -- a bounty that is a direct result of the heritage that is under assault. The American idea needs the support of its African-American citizens. But African-Americans also need the support of the American idea. For it is this idea that led to the principles and institutions that have set African-Americans - and all of us -- free.