Clay, you said that Epoch won't be affected at all by this because you don't tolerate this sort of content anyways.
But according to what you posted "simulated" beastie sites are no longer going to be processed for either.

You process for Python, CEN, and Silver Cash, all of whom have fake beastie sites. Are these sites no longer going to be processed for?
Or is there a difference between "fake" and "simulated"? And if so, where's the line drawn at?

Epoch is paycom.net right?

http://www.girlranch.com/

Processed by paycom.net.

:winkwink:

Interesting.

Amputate your Head,

I don't sport-fish, I currently have not formed an opinion about it as I have insufficient information about it.

And no I am not going to eleborate on that because it would keep me occupied for the entire evening.

It was good talking to you, this clearly is a subject you and I look upon differently.

I think he meant they wont process for small sites. DO enough business with them and they'll hook you up.

Yet you have all these opinions on beast! How is that possible? Have you had sex with animals? How did you arrive at these opinions without that data? (Assuming you're going to say no), you can comment on the morality of beast sites without having had sex with animals, yet you can't comment on the morality of sport-fishing????

Come the fuck on dude. I'm not 4 years old.

How the hell do you know you're not harming it? Did you ask the plant? It's idea of harming it and your idea of harming are quite likely worlds apart.... how the hell do you know what a plant interprets as harm?

How about the trees used to build your house? Were they harmed? Did they consent to being turned into 2x4's and bad paneling?

Well, i have had sex with animals, frequently. Nothing wrong with it at all. Now, if you'll excuse me, my dog is barking, and i think we know what he wants.

Amputate your Head,

No Sir, I did not have sexual relations with that dog ;-)

On a serious note, my previous message(s) states that normaly I base my opinions on data from resources that have done studies on the subject. I also wrote that at this time I have no data about the harm human-animal sex does to an animal. I do however have the right to disagree with it without having this information available to me.

Well, like Kimmy said, it's really not about the morality of it. Nobody likes the morality police. It's about a huge corporate entity deciding what we, as consenting and paying adults, can see and what we can't. Notice I did not say GOVERNMENT entity.... nobody voted on this.... this is not "the people" speaking out against it.... it's a corporate entity.

What's next? Microsoft gonna decide they don't want anyone looking at porn at all and build that into their operating systems?

um, I think you have barely legal teen sites confused with the nonude teen sites ;)))

should've also said, "except the self-rightous morality fanatics".

Funny you'd mention that Amp... actually MS is going to take the stance that you can't look at porn unless you pay the piper ;)

If Microsoft did that, another OS would come along and people would switch to that.

Visa can not process for whoever they want to not process for.

nice.....


That's actually not necessarily a bad thing. It is, in and of itself, but that is the kind of mass censorship that simply won't be tolerated, and always inspires the creative people to produce alternatives. I would expect shortly after the implementation of such a drastic move to see numerous alternatives (or work-arounds) to the Microsoft Empire.

Remember when the government tried like hell to gain complete control over digital encryption methods? They almost won. But the no-name underground cyphers got busy & went to work and that is the only reason we have levels of encryption available today that are still uncrackable by the government. They don't like it.... but they can't stop it either.

So KK, can I pull all my links for any beast partnership I am involved with that uses ccbill? This is gospel yes?

No ifs ands or buts, today is the day? Tomorrow will see no beast signups thru ccbill?

Yes, I already emailed and icqd the programs webmasters and they have no clue either. Nobody knows what the hell is going on.

Yeah this is true... The money will just move around -- and out of VISA's pocket and into ours... hopefully it's VISA's loss... As soon as they stop processing something major... I'm sure more payment systems will spring up and take root out of necessity... and think of the affiliate programs ;) The same thing happened for gambling sites as KimmyKim mentioned... surfers deposit money into their accounts -- then spend it however they want --electronic money should help our industry... The credit companies need to go away eventually -- credit cards = old, inefficient technology -- this change needs to take place anyway -- and even better at the expense of some sick perverted individuals.

On the other hand the US govt. is on a witch hunt looking for money laundering terrorists or whatever so new electronic money systems may have problems... Look at all the problems PayPal has had. Maybe VISA's censoring will give PayPal a huge boost.

uh oh, I'm thinking Roger Corman and Sean Cunningham are going to jail for a very very very very very long time ;)))))

I'm not a preacher Labret, so I don't spout gospel. The site owners will be notified as to what's going to happen, and the resellers after that.

As for the MS thing Fatpad, perhaps you aren't understanding the marketing potential that MS is offering here. The average Joe Surfer won't be able to steal porn anymore, the newsgroups won't be able to give away the farm, and content providers will have some protection -- this isn't just an adult thing either. All those bootleg copies of Photoshop will stop working...

I'm not confused -- I don't like teen sites that misrepresent age -- and that's about 95% of them. "young teens" is suggestive of CP -- and most teen sites use this text in their advertising. Hopefully VISA will stop processing these fuckers. I'll make a lot more money ;)

Free speech is good.

Censorship is bad.

I still can't believe there are adult webmasters who support CC censorship of legal material.

If VISA decides to censor everything that people find offensive, then we all better go looking for "real" jobs. Maybe some of you can go work at a church and preach to all the sinners out there.

Animals can't talk -- and neither can you with a horse dick in your mouth eheh...

I like that stuff. :) I was referring more to Amp's remarks about MS blocking porn in general through their OS. :)

I'd love to see all the stolen shit get blocked somehow.

and when they stop processing for adult altogether? have fun at burgerworld....

can i still date with a dog? Will my Visa work when i'll try to pay for the restaurant or the hotel?

please show me the way.i'm scared

Fatpad -- are you going to be out here for the Phoenix Forum? They'll be doing some beta releasing on the programming -- should be way fun.

Oh and I hate cats.

Microsoft and any sort of security measures should not be mentioned in the same sentence.

I hope they unveil some new super technology to prevent people from sharing porn and pirate copies of shit. Just so I can watch a 14 year old Norwegian kid make a fucking fool out of them while he guts it when its still in beta.

Bondage will be next.

Bondage porn is illegal in quite a few places in a similar way to beast.

Poof.

Animals CAN talk - they got their own language :winkwink:

:1orglaugh

Yes free speech is good but when has beastiality been "legal" in the u.s...except for maybe in the 70's and early 80's.

I have been playin devil's advocate all morning and no one wants to address this issue.

But we have so called artistic lolita nude sites and the fact is the supreme court has ruled that some of these pics are constitutionally protected free speech.

And then we have bestiality sites that are considered obscene.

Both walk a thin moral and legal line...but the issue I keep tryint to approach with those who are defending the beastie site is why aren't you defending the artistic nude sites?

It almost seems hypocritical to censore one and not the other especially when one has been proven to be constitutionally protected...if you don't believe me do a search on Jock Sturges.

I am not defending any of these sites...my point and question remains...if one man's garbage is another man's art then who gets to sit and judge what is art and what is garbage?

And is fighting for the right to keep beastie sites online a worthwhile battle? If we lose those will it actually diminish our free speech rights?
If you say yes...then why are you not arguing the same points for something that has already been proven to be constitutionally protected free speech?

As for me...we could do without both.
I don't think the beastie battle is a worthwhile battle. I think going to the mat for this will only hurt our image in the eyes of the public.
It will only serve to justify their cause against us even more.
Save your time and energy for more worthwhile causes like Bukakke and fisting...LOL

My next site is going to be bikini clad 14 year olds "posing" with animals. Epoch will process for it.

HOT TEENS WITH ANIMALS

ROFL

Sorry eros, the general public doesn't see a distinction between a fisting site, a beastie site and a hardcore porn site. They see it all as pornography.

If you don't believe that, how about you give me your urls and I'll see if I can't find a prosecutor in Alabama, Mississippi, somewhere along those lines to prove it to you, at your expense.

Don't be so negative Labrat ;)

Think of the possibilities -- no more members scarfing down member areas on trial and then enjoying the goodies from now til eternity.

Sending out a marketing email where the recipient can't save it to harddrive, view it when he's offline, or pass it to anyone else. Want to let him view it 5 times and then kaput if he doesn't buy?

Content producers have a huge potential here in preventing unauthorized access to their content but the average site owner or reseller can make excellent use of the technology.

Interestingly enough, this is supposed to be at the OS level, and if someone tries to tinker with it, they'll end up having to reinstall the OS.

But the simple fact is Kimmy that the general public is more accepting of mainstream porn now days than in previous years.

Beastie sites hurt our image pure and simple...so do the cp and underage lolita sites...that cannot be denied.

Just because you can find one jury in BFE to convict me on my softcore porn site does not necessarily mean it will stand up through an appeals process.

However if I were promoting a beastie site the outcome would not be the same.

Of course most people couldn't afford a prolonged legal battle either way and that is what they would hope for.

But you guys still have not shown me why we should defend something that is not constitutionally protected while turning our backs on something that is.

It's all about free speech right?

Still in devil's advocate mode :)

Sorry but beastie sites don't hurt 'our' image any more than that average webmasters pictures of his trip to IA.

Try another tact.

Speaking of MS I dont think it would be legal for them to do that but if they did it would really fuck everybody except for whoever cut the deal with MS to serve porn. Maybe I dont understand the deal. Oh yeah and this issue reminds me of the adult webmasters who voted for Bush just for the tax break. Wake up and smell the future.

That utter bullshit.

What is it you hear about on the news day in and day out...cp sites being busted....the underbelly of the internet and how scary it is with it's forbidden sites.

Sure they might lump hardcore porn in there but that's only because of the fact that it's so easily accessible to minors.

You still haven't addressed the legal underage lolita sites issue kimmy....how come you are not defending them?

Why am I not defending them? Because I personally can't stand them. They are legal though, that's long been established. While I don't think they should exist, I don't think it's for Visa to decide what can exist and what can't.

Funny I never heard of any big doggie fucking rings busted, so your comparison of news doesn't really hold water...

Did you by any chance see the PBS special on porn? While they did show some clean cut MBA's in suits, I'm sure the lasting impression on the viewers was of Rob Black and Lizzie Borden -- and that's what mainstream America will remember of you or me, not how arty or softcore your sites may be.

So are you saying you like beastie sites? LOL j/k ;)
But it certainly does seem hypocritical to not defend them when you guys are all arguing about free speech and free commerce.


Yes I did see the PBS special...and you just made my point for me.
They will only remember Rob Black and Lizzie Borden because that's what drives the news....not softcore porn sites or even hardcore porn sites...but the dirty stuff.
So the less fringe sites out there i.e. rape, scat, piss, animal, borderline cp bullshit the better.

Porn is mainstream now...as that pbs documentary proved even the big boys are getting involved such as Ford and AT&T...that's how acceptable it's becoming.

So if we take out the bullshit that the news can sensationalize our jobs only become easier.

Like I said before pick your battles...this just does not seem like the one to go to the mat for.

eros, what will you say when you can no longer buy tickets to a good action flick at the theatre Friday night with your VISA card because VISA deems it unacceptable due to the fact that Arnie is gunning down bad guys in it complete with stage blood and gray matter on the walls.

Oh wait.... that's different right? We're *consenting* to see that stuff.... we're *paying* to see that stuff.

oops.... isn't that what the beast lovers are trying to do?

Oh but that's different.... beast hurts *our* industry and makes us look bad.

but.... I don't like bad guys brains getting splattered on the wall.... I'm opposed to it. I want to boycott it. I think it's immoral. I want it stopped. What? It's fake? I don't care. I think it's bad news and puts the movie industry in a bad light. They should only be making movies about Mary fucking Poppins.

Oh wait.... that's different.... isn't it?

How about when your girl/wife can't buy a dress that's slit up the side because VISA thinks it's too sexually suggestive and may provoke a wayward rapist into action if he sees her wearing it.

Oh.... that's different. We're free to buy whatever we want... VISA can't dicate what we want to buy....

but they can.... and they are.

Oh, but that's different..... a dress slit up the side is not immoral.

But I think it is.... I am offended by all these women wearing clothing like that and exposing their flesh. I want it stopped. I'm going to write to VISA and demand they stop processing transactions for certain clothing. Because you are promoting immorality on the clothing industry as a whole by purchasing such things.

That's ridiculous..... we can buy and wear whatever clothing we want....

or can you? Not if VISA says you can't.

but that's different.... we're CHOOSING to buy and wear those clothes.... it doesn;t matter if you think it's immoral....

isn't that what the beast lovers are trying to do?

but that's different.... beast is immoral and not right....

I think your clothes are immoral and not right. The clothing industry should only make clothes that cover the entire body and they should all be pale green in color. It's only right.

Please..... allow me to force my fucking morality on you some more.
Please.... allow VISA to dicate a little more of what we can and cannot buy.....
Please..... keep giving away MY fucking rights.....

And yes I know that those borderline sites will always be there....but Visa a well renowned company doesn't have to lend their name and process for them and give them credibility.

I can just see the commercials now for a new improved beastie site.

"now taking Visa...Visa everywhere you want to be." LOL

Amp...sorry man but that holds as much water as your leaky jug.

It won't happen.

Not to mention there are my good ol' american greenbacks sitting in my pocket to pay for that movie.

Once again you are choosing to fight for something that has been deemed obscene...why are you not fighting this hard for those artistic lolita sites...something that has been ruled constitutionally protected?

If you choose to fight this beastie battle then go for it man...but I think it's the wrong battle to choose to fight.

When it comes time to actually wage war for our free speech rights this will only come back to haunt us.

Well said...:thumbsup

I can't see why all the talk. mabye do visa ban animalsex.
But it is not the first time a CC have ban porn. and porn will still live on.
when people what to see someting is there away.
I have some people there mail me and ask if the give us there bank info, so we can get the money from there bank if the can get a username and a password.
And try to have a litte fath in ccbill and ibill.
if there are people there will pay for see animalsex. will ccbill and ibill find away.

You still don't get it do you?

I'm not fighting for Beast sites. I'm fighting for the ability to purchase what I fucking choose to with my goddamned VISA card.

If I wanna go buy a fucking arsenal of guns to add to my collection..... I don't want VISA or you or anyone else telling me how fucking wrong it is to own guns. It's MY fucking decision to purchase or to not purchase. Not yours.

If I wanna go to the corner store and buy up every single porn magazine they got on the racks and fill my closet with fuckin' porn... I don't want VISA telling me I can't do it, or you or anyone else in my fucking face telling me how immoral it is to look at pictures of women getting fucking spanked.

Get the idea here?

It's not about beast eros..... I give a flying fuck about beast sex.

It's about VISA telling us what we can and cannot legally buy. And since buying a subscription to a beast site is NOT illegal.... they should not be doing the fucking dictation.

Amp, you're making it sound like there would be no way to pay for that stuff.

In America, as long as there is a demand for a product, and the product is not illegal, there will be a way to pay for it.

Visa stops processing for tickets to action flicks. Dozens of processors pop up who are more than willing to do it. Since there is no law against action flicks, and people want to see action flicks, they will either pay cash, or use the new credit card that allows action flicks to be charged.

Visa will never decide what legal products can and cannot be seen in America.

I do get it amp....

It's about free commerce and the right for Visa to establish their own rules much like you establish the rules for your business..

I see guys all the time on this board jumping in on newbies etc who complain about a tgp's submission rules...about a sponsors tos etc saying all the same thing.

It's their site...it's their program they get to make the rules...you dont' like it go elsewhere.

Well the same here applies man...the same here appllies.

It's Visa's program...they get to make the rules...you don't like it go elsewhere.

Vote with your dollar and stop using Visa..if you truly think it's going to effect your ability to watch a horror movie or buy a gun.

No, I understand that completely FP.... it's just that VISA is undeniably huge..... this is a big deal. If it was Joe Schmucky's CC Processing, no one would give a damn.... but because it's VISA.... it makes it a big deal. Everyone and their sister has at least one VISA card..... I have several. Know what I mean?