"where there's a will, there's a weapon"

Yeah and i can guarantee you there are "certain people" monitoring this board...yes also in Holland :thumbsup

can it spook

And franck is right.

that's a first. I'd love to hear of someone getting raided over a CO2 pistol though... THEY'RE WATCHING!!!! :1orglaugh

Unfortunately, it is impossible to know beforehand if people will or will not have enough self control to deal with stressful situations.

thats why it's not easy to get a concealed carry permit ;). which is also the reason why I'm waiting patiently for mine to arrive. :)

Idiot, i know someone who got raided very recently for something i consider less harmful than a pistol and yes they monitored him on gfy.

Once again you have no clue what youre talking about.

BAHAHAHHAHAHA HAHAHHAHAHAHHA AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA YOU FUCKING TOOL!

careful with that pistol homie... you might scratch my shades!

Thats one thing they don't understand, which is why they're so quick to blame all violent crime on guns in general, as opposed to legal guns versus those obtained/kept illegally. Its a lot like pornographers and those who produce CP, one is a legitimate production done by law abiding producers and the other is illegal done by some fucked up vigilante.

Honestly, you act a little...uhm well...like you need some mental help dude.
You dont seem to understand what people are saying. Must be because of the all the pot you are smoking.

And btw, what pistol "homie"? I dont have a pistol.

damn!!!! i didnt know that everyone in holland would be shooting each other if they all had guns!!!!!???? wtf!!!!????? glad i dont live there lmao.:thumbsup:

... good post actually. i for one have a ccw permit, all my guns are in my name, and they will never be used to commit a crime by me....( and yes they are kept in a safe when not with me, so no, they wont be stolen and sold to bad guys.) i agree that owning guns also means being responsible with them and FOR them, meaning it is your responsibility to keep them from the wrong hands. but to generally state that guns are all bad is an ignorant statement.

Finally someone gets it. Europeans are generally smart, I don't know why they can't grasp this concept.

...too true, unfortunately there will always be people who have guns that are either criminals or just too damn dumb to have them, and in every country as well... even those countries where people "think" there arent any guns.

... i for one like the shooting sports... and due to the fact that i KNOW that there will always be criminals toting guns and looking for victims (no matter what country)... (just look at austrailia)... i will refuse to be a willing victim... i will always be able to defend my family and myself.

... true the world would be safer without guns altogether, but that isnt a reality that exists... the reality that DOES exist is that there are guns, bad poeple will obtain them somehow, and that as a human living in such a situation, it is up to you whether or not you are willing to be a victim...

...and no, i will never commit suicide, shoot my spouse or a loved one, allow my guns to be in the hands of anyone other than me (unless supervised by me)... or use them in the commission of a crime...

... i am what the anti gunners hate most.... a law abiding sensible reasonable person who owns guns...

... oh, and btw, if you have ever had anyone stick a gun in your face, and start asking his homeboys if he should shoot you, then you would understand that it is better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

Funny, EVERY fucking gun owner i speak is a "responsible" gun owner. Every single one of them...

All those accidents must be fables then.

Every hour in America, four people are killed by firearms. (Centers for Disease Control)

A gun in your home makes it three times more likely that you or someone you care about will be murdered by a family member or intimate partner (Kellerman,New England Journal of Medicine v329, n.15 1993)

Gun violence is the second-leading cause of injury-related fatalities in the US after car accidents. In Alaska, Maryland and Nevada as well as D.C., firearm death rates in 1998 exceeded those for car accidents. (CDC & Natnl. Vital Statistics Report, 1999)

One million Americans have died in firearm homicides, suicides, and unintentional shootings since 1962. (Fatal Firearm Injuries in the United States 1962-1994. Violence Surveillance Summary Series, No. 3, 1997; Deaths: Final Data for 1995- 1997, National Vital Statistics Report)

In 1997, for every time that a civilian used a handgun to kill in self-defense, 43 people lost their lives in handgun homicides. (FBI Supplementary Homicide Report data, 1997)

In 30% of handgun-owning households, the gun was stored unlocked and loaded at the time of the survey.

28% of gun-owning households with children do not always keep guns locked in a secure place.

The greatest number of firearm-related accidental deaths occurs in the 15-19 age group; from 1994-1997, 1,634 children died this way.

Look, these are ALL responsible gun owners like all the gun owners on this board.

Funny world we live in.

Frankccccccccccccc

i say give em guns!

http://www2.rnw.nl/rnw/en/currentaff...nds011218.html

The number of Dutch children working in prostitution has increased dramatically over the past five years: from 4,000 to 15,000 according to figures published by the Amsterdam-based ChildRight organization. Dutch police says the numbers are much lower, but acknowledges there is a big problem.

if they let em have guns maybe theyd leave the kids alone!

100....... :Hollering

...well, im too lazy to look it all up again, but we had this debate a few months back i believe... i shed some new light on many of the statistics you qouted. including the kellerman findings where kellerman himself was later interviewed by the N.R.A., and kellerman was asked about the "3x more likely to be killed or know someone who would be killed by a gun in the home" statistic. he said that the numbers were mostly made up of irresponsible gun owners who had children get to them, and acidentally shoot someone...(not domestic violence or things of that nature)... now, i agree that that is too much irresponsiblity as far as gun owners go... but that in itself does not mean that husbands are shooting thier wives or vice versa... this statistic does not stem from gun VIOLENCE in the home... only gun ACCIDENTS... but i do agree that that is still to many accidents.

...now, as far as the amount of civilians shooting an attacker compared to the amount of violent gun crime attacks goes... the amount of people who THWART an attack far outwieghs the number of poeple who ACTUALLY HAVE TO SHOOT an attacker... many incidents where an attack was about to be initiated, and the victim either pulled a gun or made reference to having a gun, the acting criminals would not continue with thier attack on said victim. also police departments stated that thier was no way to determine how many poeple were able to keep an attack from happening because they felt many poeple would not report the attemped attack due to the attitudes that police in general have towards armed civilians. various law enforcement heads were asked about this very question and in general, the above statement was pretty much thier response across the board.

... a person who is goin to try and attack you for either money, or to rape, or to just have a thrill by rolling someone then beating thier ass, isnt going to stick around and see what happens if you pull a gun on them... they are gonna hual ass... unless that person has reason to do you harm, they are not gonna try to get into a blazing gun battle or try to beat the gun situation they are in. period....

therefore you, nor anyone else can say how many times per year, honest people go about thier business and end up having to pull a gun or threaten to pull a gun to keep from being a victim of violent crime.

as far as statistics that x amount of violent crime happens involving guns, the N.R.A. posed this statistic that he had quoted to him and kellerman said that the numbers were correct, but that it didnt account for the amount of incidents where it was gang related, meaning gang on gang violence, and incidents of mostly inner city shootings involving drugs and basically that type of bullshit... the amount of this tyoe of shooting incidents far outwiegh any types of other shootings... combined...

now i dont know about you, buy as far as im concerned, all the dope pushers and wanna be thugs and gang bangers can off themsleves as fast as they want.... but, that is where your overwhelming stats are coming from.

yeah, i agree that too many poeple who have guns are irresponsible with them... i dont want to hear about a kid shooting himself or someone because he got hold of a gun any more than you do... actually, i hate hearing about it WORSE than you do because it means that it gives the anti gunners more propaganda for thier position... as where you gleefully accept yet another statistic for your bielief.

it boils down to this..... yes, the world would be safer without guns...(happy that someone who is pro-gun said it?)... but the cold hard truth is that guns do exist... and as long as they exist, criminals will use them as power over victims. that being the case, it is my choice whether or not i choose to be a victim or not... i choose not.

my mom raised me by herself... my dad was a vietnam veteran who died of being infected with agent orange... when i was 17 years old, someone tried to break in the backdoor of our house around 11 pm one night... i owned a ruger 10/22 that was mine and mine alone... i was raised in the country until i was older before moving into the city... i jumped up, and ran to get my gun and when i got to it, i grabbed it, and yelled as loud as i could that i had a gun, and had called the cops... whoever it was, ran off... i never called the cops... i suspect that happens alot.

true story, dont give a fuck if you believe it or not.

I have to hand it to you Franck, that is some good research you did.

Aside from all that is something I won't ever understand, why do people need to own a gun? What is the fun in that? What do they do with it? Really, can some of the gun owners explain that to me. And I'm not talking about people who need it for a job or anything (like policemen, hunters, etc.). Just the guys that have one "for fun".

I don't understand why people like to watch Star Wars, but a lot of people do. I can't believe the people here who disagree with something and automatically dismiss it as something that is stupid or absurd. I can think of another group that doesn't agree with something and wants it outlawed, take a wild guess at what group that is?

When the only people allowed to posess firearms are agents of the 'state'... it might be time to start thinking of yourself as a subject rather than a citizen.

:glugglug

Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen,
ich war ja kein Kommunist.

Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen,
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.

Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert,
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.

Als sie die Juden holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert,
ich war ja kein Jude.

Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr, der protestierte.

Amen! You got that right, broke.

And in English.

First they came for the communists,
I did not speak out,
because I was not a communist.

When they came for the social democrats,
I did not speak out,
because I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out,
because I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out,
because I was not a Jew.

And when they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Am I the only one that can see the relevance to this?

in chicago we fear this ;) that's stone cold pimpin

Agreed, an dbuying a fast car makes it more likely you will drive fast with it as well