100....... :Hollering

...well, im too lazy to look it all up again, but we had this debate a few months back i believe... i shed some new light on many of the statistics you qouted. including the kellerman findings where kellerman himself was later interviewed by the N.R.A., and kellerman was asked about the "3x more likely to be killed or know someone who would be killed by a gun in the home" statistic. he said that the numbers were mostly made up of irresponsible gun owners who had children get to them, and acidentally shoot someone...(not domestic violence or things of that nature)... now, i agree that that is too much irresponsiblity as far as gun owners go... but that in itself does not mean that husbands are shooting thier wives or vice versa... this statistic does not stem from gun VIOLENCE in the home... only gun ACCIDENTS... but i do agree that that is still to many accidents.

...now, as far as the amount of civilians shooting an attacker compared to the amount of violent gun crime attacks goes... the amount of people who THWART an attack far outwieghs the number of poeple who ACTUALLY HAVE TO SHOOT an attacker... many incidents where an attack was about to be initiated, and the victim either pulled a gun or made reference to having a gun, the acting criminals would not continue with thier attack on said victim. also police departments stated that thier was no way to determine how many poeple were able to keep an attack from happening because they felt many poeple would not report the attemped attack due to the attitudes that police in general have towards armed civilians. various law enforcement heads were asked about this very question and in general, the above statement was pretty much thier response across the board.

... a person who is goin to try and attack you for either money, or to rape, or to just have a thrill by rolling someone then beating thier ass, isnt going to stick around and see what happens if you pull a gun on them... they are gonna hual ass... unless that person has reason to do you harm, they are not gonna try to get into a blazing gun battle or try to beat the gun situation they are in. period....

therefore you, nor anyone else can say how many times per year, honest people go about thier business and end up having to pull a gun or threaten to pull a gun to keep from being a victim of violent crime.

as far as statistics that x amount of violent crime happens involving guns, the N.R.A. posed this statistic that he had quoted to him and kellerman said that the numbers were correct, but that it didnt account for the amount of incidents where it was gang related, meaning gang on gang violence, and incidents of mostly inner city shootings involving drugs and basically that type of bullshit... the amount of this tyoe of shooting incidents far outwiegh any types of other shootings... combined...

now i dont know about you, buy as far as im concerned, all the dope pushers and wanna be thugs and gang bangers can off themsleves as fast as they want.... but, that is where your overwhelming stats are coming from.

yeah, i agree that too many poeple who have guns are irresponsible with them... i dont want to hear about a kid shooting himself or someone because he got hold of a gun any more than you do... actually, i hate hearing about it WORSE than you do because it means that it gives the anti gunners more propaganda for thier position... as where you gleefully accept yet another statistic for your bielief.

it boils down to this..... yes, the world would be safer without guns...(happy that someone who is pro-gun said it?)... but the cold hard truth is that guns do exist... and as long as they exist, criminals will use them as power over victims. that being the case, it is my choice whether or not i choose to be a victim or not... i choose not.

my mom raised me by herself... my dad was a vietnam veteran who died of being infected with agent orange... when i was 17 years old, someone tried to break in the backdoor of our house around 11 pm one night... i owned a ruger 10/22 that was mine and mine alone... i was raised in the country until i was older before moving into the city... i jumped up, and ran to get my gun and when i got to it, i grabbed it, and yelled as loud as i could that i had a gun, and had called the cops... whoever it was, ran off... i never called the cops... i suspect that happens alot.

true story, dont give a fuck if you believe it or not.

I have to hand it to you Franck, that is some good research you did.

Aside from all that is something I won't ever understand, why do people need to own a gun? What is the fun in that? What do they do with it? Really, can some of the gun owners explain that to me. And I'm not talking about people who need it for a job or anything (like policemen, hunters, etc.). Just the guys that have one "for fun".

I don't understand why people like to watch Star Wars, but a lot of people do. I can't believe the people here who disagree with something and automatically dismiss it as something that is stupid or absurd. I can think of another group that doesn't agree with something and wants it outlawed, take a wild guess at what group that is?

When the only people allowed to posess firearms are agents of the 'state'... it might be time to start thinking of yourself as a subject rather than a citizen.

:glugglug

Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen,
ich war ja kein Kommunist.

Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen,
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.

Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert,
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.

Als sie die Juden holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert,
ich war ja kein Jude.

Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr, der protestierte.

Amen! You got that right, broke.

And in English.

First they came for the communists,
I did not speak out,
because I was not a communist.

When they came for the social democrats,
I did not speak out,
because I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out,
because I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out,
because I was not a Jew.

And when they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Am I the only one that can see the relevance to this?

in chicago we fear this ;) that's stone cold pimpin

Agreed, an dbuying a fast car makes it more likely you will drive fast with it as well