MacDaddyPlaya

And a merry go fuck yourself to you as well. Enjoy your lunch and get used to eating at McD's if you are counting on iBill.

__________________
Sigless

NetRodent

It certainly seems suspicious, due to the fact that you're not known in the industry, you just registered today and you've only
posted about how great iBill is.



I think we've heard this one before. "No really, this time we mean it."



This is very suspicious wording, if you're not an agent of iBill.




Aren't the old owners the same as the new owners?




Then perhaps you should listen to those who have been around the block a time or two.




I'm happy for you. However if you're new, like you say, then the fact that you haven't
had problems doesn't count for much. A few on time payouts does not build much of a
reputation for reliability in light of iBill's continuing payment issues.



For someone who just processes with iBill, you sure seem awfully ferverant about spreading this message.



Your analogy is flawed. The Ford Pinto would be much more accurate...

The rush of the Pinto from conception to production was a recipe for disaster. Many studies have been
concluded by Mother Jones on Pinto accident reports which have revealed conclusively that if a Pinto being
followed at over 30 miles per hour was hit by that following vehicle, the rear end of the car would buckle
like an accordion, right up to the back seat. The tube leading to the gas-tank cap would be ripped away
from the tank itself, and gas would immediately begin sloshing onto the road around the car. The buckled
gas tank would be jammed up against the differential housing (the large bulge in the middle of the rear
axle), which contains four sharp, protruding bolts likely to gash holes in the tank and spill still more
gas. Now all that is needed is a spark from a cigarette, ignition, or scraping metal, and both cars would
be engulfed in flames. If a Pinto was struck from behind at higher speed say, at 40 mph chances are very
good that its doors would jam shut and its trapped passengers inside would burn to death.
(From: http://www.fordpinto.com/blowup.htm)


Of course not EVERY pinto blew up and killed its passengers, so lets give the Ford Pinto a second chance!!!!




So the forty two million dollars iBill owes is due to incorrect banking information? iBill would undoubtably
be aware that checks are getting returned and wires not going through, shouldn't they contact their customers when
they know there's a problem sending the payments?




But you're already admitted you're new. Plus nobody knows you, so unfortunately you don't have much credibility. Its good you're
had no problems with them, but don't expect other people to give what you say as much credence when it runs contrary to
the testimony of other people who are known and respected. The one post that Tony404 made saying he has been paid, does FAR more
to help iBill's case than ALL of the posts you've made.



For someone who just processes with iBill you're taking this awfully personally.



Why do you care so much?

I'd love nothing for there to be more than two viable North American IPSPs, however iBill is damaged goods. It will take
a lot for them to be credible again. They may be able to come back, but with the outstanding debts and the similarity
in management they're not looking too good.



At one time we accounted for about 1% of iBill's revenue and we've been paid most of what we're owed (except of course the web900).
However that doesn't change the fact that the way iBill handled the whole situation left a very bad taste in our mouths. We're
happy we got paid, but we're not particularly happy with iBill. This doesn't mean we are opposed to doing business with iBill again, but
its not worth the risk when there are other viable options out there.

__________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
--H.L. Mencken

SilentKnight

Bullshit.

Right now I'm SO tempted to publically post these so-called "answers" you allude to - in the form of a dozen email exchanges I've had over the course of the past month with a myriad of jackass iBill reps.

If iBill is ripe with answers - what's the answer to "WHY HAVEN'T I GOTTEN MY FUCKING MONEY?!"

How many times must this question be asked? How many vanishing reps must I ask this question of? What's the timeframe involved? How much more of my time must I waste chasing this fabled payment?

Answer the above, or fuck off. Its simple, really.


SilentKnight

Kastle Archives Productions Inc.

Nasty

I hope all my competitors start using ibill, thats a recurring wet dream I have been having since last year when they stopped paying me what they owe me but continued to rebill

__________________

“Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. If we continue to develop our technology without wisdom or prudence, our servant may prove to be our executioner.” ― Omar Bradley (1948)

TheLegacy

its one of those places I cant even recommend to an enemy, for all I know this was a major halloween joke

__________________

scoreman

Thanks for pointing out that IBD released their latest 10k. There is alot of information there that I was unaware of.

For those who are considering a trade of stock for debt you might want to consider how much IBD is diluting their stock:

<From the 10k statement>:
On July 14, 2004, we approved the issuance of 4,000,000 shares of our common stock to Oak Street Ventures, Inc. in connection with a Settlement and Termination Agreement dated July 14, 2004. Oak Street Ventures, Inc., a third party consultant, participated in the acquisition of iBill. The 4,000,000 shares are subject to a one-year lock up agreement. Gary Spaniak, Sr. is a principal of Oak Street Ventures, Inc. Gary Spaniak; Sr. is the father of Gary Spaniak, Jr. (an officer and director of our company)

On August 26, 2004 we agreed to issue 40,000 shares of common stock to. Northbound, Inc in consideration for business consulting services provided to our company during 2004. These consulting services included services related to our insurance coverage. The services were valued at $5,800. The principal of Northbound is the son of Gilbert Singerman, a director of our company.

On October 5, 2004, we also approved the issuance of 503,680 shares of common stock to Corporation First, Inc. for certain business consulting services valued at $73,034. The shares were issued on December 3, 2004. Voting control of Corporation First is held by the mother of Gary Spaniak, Jr.

On October 5, 2004, we also approved the issuance of 503,680 shares of common stock to Corporation First, Inc. for certain business consulting services valued at $73,034. The shares were issued on December 3, 2004. Voting control of Corporation First is held by the mother of Gary Spaniak, Jr.

On December 20, 2004 we approved the issuance of 200,000 shares of our common stock to Children's Academy of Pompano Beach, Inc. The shares were issued to Children's Academy of Pompano Beach, Inc. in consideration for the termination of our lease agreement for our former executive offices and release of any potential claims under the lease agreement. The lease agreement was through December 2007 and the remaining obligations under the lease were approximately $307,500. The principal of Children's Academy of Pompano Beach, Inc. is the mother of Gary Spaniak, Jr.

IBD also traded 6,700,000 shares of stock for cel animation.

1,198,000 shares were given to a individual to convert his preferred stock.

__________________

Screaming

i dont think they are a good company

__________________

scoreman

4TheMoney you seem to want us to believe that iBill is a brand new company, with new owners. The 10k says this


NUMBER OF SHARES
NAME AND ADDRESS BENEFICIALLY OWNED
Granite Management Company, LLC(1)(3) 15,000,000
Summit Trading Limited(2)(3) 15,000,000
Monarch Pointe Fund LP(3)(4) 10,680,280
CCI II, L.L.C.(3)(5) 12,030,417
Steve Markley 517,117
Gary Spaniak, Jr. 1,701,667
Steven Robinson 500,000
Gilbert Singerman 2,000
Robert Dolin 62,500
PHSL Worldwide, Inc.(6)(10) 100,930,171
Luis Enrique Fernando Molina Galeana(6) 100,930,171
Jason Galanis(6)(7)(8)(10) 39,037,120
Charles Samel(6)(7)(9)(10) 54,004,720
All Officers and directors as a group,
(5 individuals) 2,783,284


This seems to be a list of the same people who were present when iBill was driven into the ground in 2004.

__________________

SilentKnight

I predict 4themoney's posting spree of yesterday was a one-day non-recurring event.

No reps (or supporters) from iBill carry on a sustained defense for more than a few posts. Its been illustrated time and time ago they don't have answers for our questions - and all they spew is rhetorical lies and false promises.

Yesterday one individual (Tony404) made a singular post that he'd received revenues owing - but then never answered when asked if he'd gotten payments dating back to Sept. '04.

The fiasco continues...


SilentKnight

Kastle Archives Productions Inc.

webmeister

Ibill stock has (IBDI) has dropped to an all-time low of 9 cents a share. About a year ago, it was almost a dollar a share. Doesn't that tell you something about the future of this struggling company?

Even Enron stock was above 9 cents at the end.


Crunch time comes in March when all the promised payments are set to be mailed out. What happens if there isn't enough money to pay monies owed?

Maybe they will issue more stock? By the way, if you remove your buttons after signing a settlement contract, you are automatically issued stock instead of monies owed.

MacDaddyPlaya

That seems to be the M.O. I guess the new employees don't stick around too long at that place once they realize what is going on. I'm just glad they come on every now and then to help remind us of their true colors.

__________________
Sigless

scardog

Bump so 4themoney can comment on your revelation that the New Ibill, is also the Old Ibill. His silence is deafening. ;)

andrewatibill

In fact I am still here. I started on GFY about 4 months ago, but I am generally too busy to check it. Mostly I am busy putting together payment arrangements for webmasters who ARE getting paid. Several of them HAVE posted here to say they were paid, but were generally lambasted so they chose not to come back.

If you are a CLIENT who iBill owes money to for BILLING, you can contact me for information about a payment arrangement.

[email protected] (still here, still answering emails, still sending people money)

...and yes, I AM an iBill employee

FOR THE RECORD: Most of the bashing that goes on here is from affiliates who were unable to collect money owed to them, even though that money HAS been paid to the webmaster to which they were sending traffic. Some of the other iBill bashing posts come from former iBill employees (some sales reps, some former management). Now if you want to know who you should be REALLY angry with...

imageman

This post is so full of shit i can smell it from here. Still no one has posted that they got paid for money owed before the Sept 2004 closing of Ibills merchant account by First Data.

You post is full of supposition and conjecture....

The fact is Iball's put people out of business due to withholding payments that First Data released months ago, i personally heard of people losing their homes. People reading this should remember a company like Ibill is responsible for putting people out of there homes and onto the streets, cars being repossessed and many business relationships destroyed between sponsors and affiliates. There is no way in hell anyone should ever trust this company again. As has already been pointed out in this thread Iball's is still owned by the same people who sent it down the tubes in September, nothing has changed just a lot of new false promised and lies.

No webmaster or affiliate should consider ever again using Ibill and even though we paid all our affiliates all outstanding monies due by Iball's the overwhelming consensus is they will never again risk signing up with a company that has such a blatant disregard for its clients well-being!

TheLegacy

thats been almost a 2 day trip to McD's did the check bounce from IBill so you have to work to pay off your tab?

__________________

Fetish

I can't believe an Ibill thread still lasts this long. They are such old news it is rediculous (as I am posting on it too). Move on already poeple.

MacDaddyPlaya

Please enlighten us all...who should people be angry with over everything that happened, and is still happening at iBill?

__________________
Sigless

imageman

No way! I intend to keep Iball's threads current so that any new affiliate or webmaster can see the results of this companys dealings with online billing and how they treat clients.

TheLegacy

__________________

SilentKnight

Bullshit. Other than 'Tony404' who posted a brief message a few days ago, there's been no one else that I've been able to find here on GFY that supports your above claim.

ALSO FOR THE RECORD (since this last bit was specifically aimed in my direction):

My company Kastle Archives Productions had used iBill since approx. 1999, and during that time we received revenue payments directly from iBill through a revshare sub-account. We own the websites that generated the revenue that put the food on your table. The master account at the time was held by the webhosting company we were using and they received separate revenue payments.

And now that iBill is making questionable overtures about paying what is owed, they suddenly decide to pay the money to master account holders only, bypassing the revshare sub-account holders.

Andrew - this is not "bashing". This is black & white fact that can't be denied. Belittling this by labeling it "bashing" is complete and total ignorance on your part. We have copies of iBill's own revshare sub-account webpage that indicates the amount owed directly to us - NOT THE MASTER ACCT HOLDER. Even the master account holder is in agreement with us on this fact and has corresponded this to you on numerous occasions.

Yet still you play these silly games both in public and behind-the-scenes.

Why is that?

Yes, do tell us Andrew. Who is it this week?


SilentKnight

Kastle Archives Productions Inc.

Webby

I won't be holding my breath waiting for enlightenment.

And, no... don't bother with how evil everyone else was before you arrived on the scene. Pouring fresh milk into a barrel of sour is pointless.

FOR THE RECORD - More bullshit and still trying to blame others. You seriously think GFY is some totally anonymous board of people who have never met? Get a clue.

On the "bashing" topic - I will bash iBill till all clients are paid - so fuck off and be too "busy putting together payment arrangements for webmasters".

__________________
XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.

imageman

Time for a "BUMP"

4TheMoney

Still, not working for iBill, but having been back from McD's for quite some time, I think that it is entirely funny how some of you can only see that front of my middle finger... What's written on the back is worse than the gesture. Still ranting, Still raving... STILL ASSUMING. Andrew at iBill is actually a nice guy, give him a call. (and No, I'm still not an iBill rep!) Fume, vent, do whatever you feel you need to do. Convince the world that Bush is a woman for all I care, but I can only speak of what I know. Although McDonalds might be a bad choice for lunch, and chicken heads have been in place of chicken "fingers" they still rebounded and have over how many billion served? There is a market for everything, and your opinions will not change the world, or even the internet (as a whole). So, Please, Pardon my interruption and continue bitching. We're all just little people, punching little keys, on small computers trying to achieve large goals. In the words of my brother, "Can't we all just hit a bong?" Oh that's right, can't do anything else when you spend all day long on GFY trying to change the world.

TheLegacy

so how much does IBill pay their lawyers/employees to post for them? this must be a full time job for you

obviously you havent read the other threads showing webmasters demanding payments and proving they havent been paid by your buddies.

If you can get off the floor from giving blowjobs from your boss's at IBill you will see just how much they are hated, disrespected and will not be given a chance by anyone. We are here to guarantee that newer webmasters are always steered clear of your buddies. How are your stock options doing? Not even enron sold so poorly after the shitstorm hit them.

__________________

SilentKnight

Was someone standing on your oxygen hose at birth? You come across as one of the most moronic fucks I've seen slide down the pipe in a while.

Your solution to resolving the ongoing situation between iBill and webmasters owed revenues is to give us all the finger and suggest we all go smoke weed.

Many of us have already gone the route of attempting to privately negotiate for what is legally ours - to no avail. Therefore the forum of public opinion becomes the last option.

But congrats are in order. Every assinine post you make here serves us opportunity to keep iBull's mismanagement in the forefront.

Ironically, in that respect, you're actually a useful peon.


SilentKnight

Kastle Archives Productions Inc.

scardog

Why did 4themoney not mention the Old Ibill/ New Ibill revelations that they are one in the same. Instead chose to talk about his middle finger, George Bush, and Mcdonald's. I guess that tells us what we need to know.

SilentKnight

imageman

Bump for the night shift

jpoker

I noticed recently that an old ibill affiliate account that I have still had a bunch of outstanding unpaid moneys and just for fun I decided to e-mail iBill
to ask about it

Here is their response:

Webby

For someone who is not "working for iBill" or, by implication, has no vested interest, - you sure write a load of rambling "words".

These based on your extensive history of trading with iBill?

Ask your good friend Andrew if iBill is owned by IBD and if Galanis and Molina still own his ass - and yours.

__________________
XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.

Webby

Don't ya just love the helpful reponses,- read avoidance and deviancy in almost all iBill email?

Any *normal* debtor simply pays a debt. With iBill, creditors need to contact "Andrew" and tell him how much is owed (He don't know?? What's iBill paid for??) and he promises to work out "payment arrangements". Is Deerfield Beach on another planet????

Try establishing how much is owed and that's gotta be 50 emails to get the account ID correct - that's before ya start talking about account balances.

I got to get all the iBill emails together and publish the garbage on GFY! It's more entertaining than "Would you hit it pics".

__________________
XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.

webmeister

Be careful, if you guys become too insulting, Ibill may declare bankruptcy and you will get nothing!! Best thing is to play along with them

Fetish

Why would anyone work for Ibill? I would rather work in telemarkieting than for them.

imageman

Be careful of what ! telling the truth ?
Iball's has not paid anyone so what's to lose?
Iball's is full of empty promises.
Don't you realise these promises of payment are just lies to get you to send sign ups.
Good luck finding any affiliate program who still use Iball's and even better luck finding any affiliates stupid enough to send any Iball's program traffic.

SilentKnight

After 14 months and no revenues - I go along with Imageman and say there's not much to lose anymore (except potential clients for these assholes).

Besides, I hardly think they're going to "declare bankruptcy" because of public insults on a webmaster forum. The insults are factually based and we can back up everything we say with iBill's own documentation, emails and copies of their webpages and revenue stats.

We tried "playing along" for 14 months behind-the-scenes. We got nowhere. Now its time to take off the gloves and make it a public spectacle.


SilentKnight

Kastle Archives Productions Inc.

MacDaddyPlaya

I don't think that will happen. When you declare bankruptcy, you have to open up "the books". This is something I really don't think they want to do. Otherwise, I'm sure they would have chosen this option a long time ago.

__________________
Sigless

SilentKnight

Exactly...and then we'd all get to see the skeletons come tumblin' out. That certainly wouldn't be in their best interests.


SilentKnight

scardog

I heard that they won't pay you the money they took from you, unless you make them your primary processor. Is this true Andrew? This sounds like B.S. since they owe the money, and to save their reputation, I don't think they will force anyone to use them to get their own money, right?

4TheMoney

Glad to see I'm not the ONLY one out there that doesn't hate iBill. Since you guys like me so much, I figured I'd interject just one more time.(Still not iBills attorney, or employee) Stocks are great, money is better, and GFY is fun for the whole family. Everyone who hates iBill, you've already said "I". We get it! But if you want your money, go after your money. Get serious, pick up a phone, call andrew at iBill. GET ANSWERS! Your failed attempts to get YOUR money could be a lack of effort on YOUR part from a company that seems to have been "Slightly Corporately Restructured" in an effort to not declare Bankruptcy. If that had happened, you'd have nothing to bitch about, your money would be completely gone, and we'd all have to process with another IPSP. Quick Question: When your customers don't get their refunds on time, I'm sure you've all told a lie or two. Just so happens you din't have as many customers as iBill to lie to. Had your memberships been for almost a half a million customers who didn't get refunds, you probably would be trash talked all over GFY, XBiz, and any other forum for bitching. Scale the issue, seperate yourself, and realize - no matter how many names you name, and how many shareholdes are still there, the "Company" is presenting itself as new. New policies, new payout days, new services... If you still don't understand MY SIDE of the story, well then you will all take this hate for iBill to your grave. If you don't give a tree sunlight it won't grow - if you don't call iBill, your money might not show. Cat in the hat is the shit... Keep the bitching alive!! Oh yeah, and occasionally update the content of your sites!

SilentKnight

scardog

4themoney, the currency IPSPs work in is trust and money. Can I trust the 3rd party with my money is the question when choosing an IPSP. Can you agree that trust has been lost in the Ibill team, no matter what you call it? Can trust be restored? I believe yes. But, only through paying every penny you owe. Is Ibill gonna be able to get people to process with them to get the money they are owed? The answer is, can the webmasters TRUST them with their money. They did once. How did that work out? No so well for many webmasters. It is not hate for Ibill, it is anger at a betrayal of trust.

SilentKnight

Simple hypothetical scenario:

You owe $100k on a mortgage with your local bank. You default on the monthly payments. Instead of paying, you call your bank and ask for another $50k because you've restructured your accounting and now "you're good for it."

Show me a bank manager that wouldn't die laughing in your face at that point.

Webby

And why do you give a flying fuck whether iBill are reincarnated or not?? I don't.

Shuffling corps and shares does not mean a "new" company. Until they pay their creditors there is nothing "new" about them.

Ask the Galanis family if they plan to repay all the funds they defrauded and give the the homes he stole back to the rightful owners. Can ya also remind him, it's not a good idea to present $2mill in cash on the table when trying to buy malls - it makes folks twitch.

Fuck iBill - They are a waste of time

__________________
XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.

andrewatibill

That is true. Everyone will be paid in full although, not surprisingly, this will take time. As a Sales Rep, what I can do in some cases is help expedite payment arrangements for my clients. Everyone will be paid.

BTW: For all the bashers who talk about the one-time posters who then disappear, I am still here, and I still get back to GFY once every week or two.

Andrew
[email protected]

4TheMoney

SilentKnot, you have all day to play. And crafty with graphics too! Must mean you have everyone else wiping your ass for you. I love self-sufficient people! And why do you call yourself Silent, you never shut the fuck up! And to answer the question if I trust iBill with my money, as far as I can see through all their documentation, the money is held by a company other than iBill, IBD, or any other companies that you can associate with iBill. So then your trust issue is with them, Not iBill! Do a little more than scratching the surface on your research. And who cares about $2Mil for a mall... what the fuck does that have to do with the price of a golden shower in kentucky?

4TheMoney

You guys give me something to do when I'm not eating at McDonalds or waxing my Pinto... Thanks for taking up my spare time.

4TheMoney

Myself included, I think scoreman is the only one in here that makes any factual sense. He's ok in my book even if he wanted to gun down everyone at iBill, CCBill, Paycom.... Facts are Great! But iBill pays me on time, so why switch?

4TheMoney

From iBills Terms and Conditions :
iBill and gkbill act as facilitators to help you accept payments from and make payments to third parties, including facilitating the load transaction. We act as your agent based upon your direction and your requests to use our Services that require us to perform tasks on your behalf. Acting on behalf of gkbill, iBill will at all times hold your funds separate from its corporate funds, will not use your funds for its operating expenses or any other corporate purposes, and will not voluntarily make funds available to its creditors in the event of bankruptcy or for any other purpose. You acknowledge that (i) iBill is not a bank and the Service is a money transfer and payment processing service rather than a banking service, and (ii) iBill is not acting as a trustee, fiduciary or escrow with respect to your funds, but is acting only as an agent and custodian.

I'm sure someone will say that this is not true as well, RIGHT?

scardog

"That is true. Everyone will be paid in full although, not surprisingly, this will take time. As a Sales Rep, what I can do in some cases is help expedite payment arrangements for my clients. Everyone will be paid."

So to get the money you are owed, you have to agree to use Ibill as your processor?

Shouldn't you say everyone that is owed money and uses Ibill as their primary processor will be paid? What happens to the money you owe people that don't use Ibill as a primary (for very good reasons) ?

scardog

It may be true 4themoney, but what if the people telling you this have lied to you in the past? Do you believe it?