What kind of SE would BEAT Google? - GoFuckYourself.com

$5 submissions · 10-22-2005, 08:40 PM

Is it possible to improve on Google's game? How about a manually indexed, scored, and cross-indexed search engine?

Morgan · 10-22-2005, 08:41 PM

milliondollarhomepage.com will beat google in teh end

TheMob · 10-22-2005, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

Is it possible to improve on Google's game? How about a manually indexed, scored, and cross-indexed search engine?

Like Yahoo Directory Search?

$5 submissions · 10-22-2005, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morgan

milliondollarhomepage.com will beat google in teh end

LOL

$5 submissions · 10-22-2005, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMob

Like Yahoo Directory Search?

not quite. Something with more value added that actually works with the DIFFERING WAYS people search for info and, more importantly, VALUE that info.

Flow · 10-22-2005, 09:24 PM

How about a search engine that ONLY gives you links to matrial that is what you did a search for. If I do a search for double anal fucking, I don't want 2 million links coming back with 1,999,990 being nothing but full page ads sites and not content.

I guess the only way to do this would make it a search engine where every link is verified for content. I would say the submitter is only charged if they get listed or there is a small fee for submitting but then a larger fee if you actually get listed.

Just my

Flow

$5 submissions · 10-22-2005, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flow

How about a search engine that ONLY gives you links to matrial that is what you did a search for. If I do a search for double anal fucking, I don't want 2 million links coming back with 1,999,990 being nothing but full page ads sites and not content.

I guess the only way to do this would make it a search engine where every link is verified for content. I would say the submitter is only charged if they get listed or there is a small fee for submitting but then a larger fee if you actually get listed.

Just my

Flow

Good post, man! I like it a lot but to minimize secondary follow up labor, the submitter must agree not to change the page once they are listed. This should apply not just to the adult and casino sections of the SE but to the mainstream portions as well.

How can such a MANUALLY VERIFIED SE be promoted? Just press releases, target articles, and word of mouth?

Flow · 10-22-2005, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

Good post, man! I like it a lot but to minimize secondary follow up labor, the submitter must agree not to change the page once they are listed. This should apply not just to the adult and casino sections of the SE but to the mainstream portions as well.

How can such a MANUALLY VERIFIED SE be promoted? Just press releases, target articles, and word of mouth?

Here is an idea - if the site is found to have changed once approved, the credit card on file will be charged $1000, all sites posted by that person will be removed and they shall be band forever.

In terms of promotion, all of those and especially word of mouth!

Flow

DateDoc · 10-22-2005, 09:34 PM

I'd have to say any SE that gave you relevant answers to your search would be way better than Google. 9 out of 10 of the Google crap you get are not relevant at all. I used to use Google everyday but now I use Yahoo because the relevance of the results is 10 times better. Everyone wants to be listed on Google so everyone optimizes their sites for Google and spams their sites for Google. Being the so called "#1" SE has more problems than it is really worth.

taibo · 10-22-2005, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flow

How about a search engine that ONLY gives you links to matrial that is what you did a search for. If I do a search for double anal fucking, I don't want 2 million links coming back with 1,999,990 being nothing but full page ads sites and not content.

I guess the only way to do this would make it a search engine where every link is verified for content. I would say the submitter is only charged if they get listed or there is a small fee for submitting but then a larger fee if you actually get listed.

Just my

Flow

couldnt agree with ya more.

TheMob · 10-22-2005, 11:17 PM

You guys are nuts. There is just too much data out there to archive it manually.

dmoz is a pretty good example of good thing that just can't really work.

SmutGiant · 10-22-2005, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMob

You guys are nuts. There is just too much data out there to archive it manually.

dmoz is a pretty good example of good thing that just can't really work.

True, I really can't see it working.

Pornwolf · 10-22-2005, 11:22 PM

Whatever happened to DMOZ. It's what everone on this thread seems to be talking about anyways.

Murderous · 10-22-2005, 11:26 PM

The kind of SE that wields a sword and a shield.

Quickdraw · 10-22-2005, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flow

How about a search engine that ONLY gives you links to matrial that is what you did a search for. If I do a search for double anal fucking, I don't want 2 million links coming back with 1,999,990 being nothing but full page ads sites and not content.
....
Flow

As long as the FPA is about 'double anal fucking', what is the problem?
They want content? They can use the members area like all good paying surfers should do

Mutt · 10-22-2005, 11:29 PM

DMOZ crumbled under the gargantuan task of doing what the thread starter suggests - it's simply not doable - no company is going to invest in the number of human drones to do that job. if Google allows itself to be overrun by spammers like AltaVista did before it a new engine will emerge as king. Then that one will have its day until it loses the war and so on and so on .......

Mr. Marks · 10-23-2005, 12:32 AM

DMOZ is still great because of PR benefits.

I think a purely manual search engine that uses many differing sources of scoring would do well. What it needs to do is do well enough to gain credibility and a mass base and then it can do cybernetics (mixing human and automated inputs).

It can definitely be done if someone puts in the time, money, and brains to do it. It definitely won't be done in one day and it will probably take a long long time for whoever builds it to get their money back.

Mr. Marks · 10-23-2005, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt

DMOZ crumbled under the gargantuan task of doing what the thread starter suggests - it's simply not doable - no company is going to invest in the number of human drones to do that job. if Google allows itself to be overrun by spammers like AltaVista did before it a new engine will emerge as king. Then that one will have its day until it loses the war and so on and so on .......

DMOZ is composed of volunteer editors. So that's what's causing their demise--lots of self-interested and outright corrupt editors.

A better example of high value added search engine content system is About.com -- it sold within the past year for quite a nice amount of bling

BucksMania · 10-23-2005, 12:39 AM

google evolves everyday, i don't think that someone will beat them soon

I Fucked Her · 10-23-2005, 12:40 AM

Google will rule 4ever --> my opinion

Serge Litehead · 10-23-2005, 12:44 AM

> Is it possible to improve on Google's game?
Yes.

> How about a manually indexed, scored, and cross-indexed search engine?
No.

TheMob · 10-23-2005, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holograph

> Is it possible to improve on Google's game?
Yes.

> How about a manually indexed, scored, and cross-indexed search engine?
No.

Well said.

Mr. Marks · 10-23-2005, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holograph

> Is it possible to improve on Google's game?
Yes.

> How about a manually indexed, scored, and cross-indexed search engine?
No.

lmao, if google did manual inputs to some of its processes, most of the google spam will die off real quick. LOL

detoxed · 10-23-2005, 12:57 AM

Honestly... its all a business. Most of the time it is not a question of the best product, is a question of the best marketing/promotion/connections/money/everything else. To beat Google in my drunk and stoned mind, you need more wild out there ideas and money than anything else. Google gets by on wild ideas half of the time. The key is integrating everything you do into the daily life of everyone else.

Serge Litehead · 10-23-2005, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papichulo

lmao, if google did manual inputs to some of its processes, most of the google spam will die off real quick. LOL

The's always a space for improvment, SE's take in considerations many factors such as indexing process, data storage, efficiently pulling proper results.
Manual tasks are only good in process of automating things, imho.

Google built solid market platform and will lead untill someone comes close to what they're doing with optimizied architechture and faster display of results, of course even more relevant. The only serious competitor for google now is MS, we'll see how serious MS is after their release of vista.

Mr. Marks · 10-23-2005, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holograph

The's always a space for improvment, SE's take in considerations many factors such as indexing process, data storage, efficiently pulling proper results.
Manual tasks are only good in process of automating things, imho.

Google built solid market platform and will lead untill someone comes close to what they're doing with optimizied architechture and faster display of results, of course even more relevant. The only serious competitor for google now is MS, we'll see how serious MS is after their release of vista.

LOL, Google is only good up to the second page of results, rest of that shit is pure spam and garbage pages. Don't ask me how I know

Regardless, 1 or 2 clicks per day, multiplied by millions of times (plus add on/multiplier traffic) sure does incentivize people to "expand" the size of the Net

Mr. Marks · 10-23-2005, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detoxed

Honestly... its all a business. Most of the time it is not a question of the best product, is a question of the best marketing/promotion/connections/money/everything else. To beat Google in my drunk and stoned mind, you need more wild out there ideas and money than anything else. Google gets by on wild ideas half of the time. The key is integrating everything you do into the daily life of everyone else.

You gotta admit, Google's ability to come up with a product that really worked ended up being the best 'promotions' they can buy.

MrChips · 10-23-2005, 02:09 AM

The one which beats google will be the one which shows off all the great sites google sandboxes or hides - thats got to be in the millions now.

chaze · 10-23-2005, 02:12 AM

Easy one that updates daily.

detoxed · 10-23-2005, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papichulo

You gotta admit, Google's ability to come up with a product that really worked ended up being the best 'promotions' they can buy.

They allow employees time to think of new ideas and projects? Road to success #1 ..... fuck yeah if im an employee I am giving my idea to Google knowing its going to do well... they've already shown this program has worked well in the past.

TetsuoIronMan · 10-23-2005, 02:50 AM

There is no need for relevance, only to be slightly more relevant and innovative than your closest competitor. Keep your eyes on the ball. Money.

What kind of se would beat google? MSN for example when they are successfully "integrating everything [they] do into the daily life of everyone else"

Serge Litehead · 10-23-2005, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaze

Easy one that updates daily.

Truly, this is the next step for SE's although here at dxstar.com we're thinking about algo's for real-time updating which is not an easy task but accomplishable none the less.

$5 submissions · 10-23-2005, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrChips

The one which beats google will be the one which shows off all the great sites google sandboxes or hides - thats got to be in the millions now.

That's a nice one but I'm sure many got sandboxed due to spam

$5 submissions · 10-23-2005, 04:59 AM

How about a personal researcher type of site?

sumphatpimp · 10-23-2005, 05:22 AM

you beat google by not trying to be google.
be you own search engine, not a general search engine like google.
be a specialized search engine; porn, engineering, science or art or whatever you want. but make it a specialized field, and make those search results relevent. you would need very good scrirpts to filter and filter again all submissions so that when it finally came to an editor most of the spam and horseshit had already been filtered out so as not to waste that editors time.
make submitters pay a fee to submit pages; that should slow down a few spammers but not all. everytime a page is changed it has to be resubmitted and another fee paid. that fee should be enough to pay for the editors time and make a good profit for the company. that should cut down on spam, but not all.
I think specialization and relevence is the way to beat google.
after you get the first one up and running you can start another and later you have a whole network of them. all concentrating on one field only.

Drake · 10-23-2005, 05:31 AM

Manual indexing by itself couldn't work because you can never keep up.

I can only see a search engine that offers both spidered and manually indexed results. Perhaps the top half of the screen could show the manually indexed results and the bottom half the spidered results.

That way you get the best of both worlds. There will always be a compromise in both forms. Relevancy/Quality versus Quantity of search results.

Screaming · 10-23-2005, 05:33 AM

It is going to take alot to knock out google.

$5 submissions · 10-23-2005, 05:33 AM

How about manual relevancy judgment of auto indexed sites to prevent spam?

Maybe have a bot do the update check to make sure someone didnt get a nice resource site listed then changed his site to a toolbar inferno once he gets mad traffic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike33

Manual indexing by itself couldn't work because you can never keep up.

I can only see a search engine that offers both spidered and manually indexed results. Perhaps the top half of the screen could show the manually indexed results and the bottom half the spidered results.

That way you get the best of both worlds. There will always be a compromise in both forms. Relevancy/Quality versus Quantity of search results.

10-23-2005, 05:40 AM

Which SE will beat Google? None. First of all, google is years ahead in infrastructure to handle the immense load from billions of daily searches. And despite their flaws they do have algos that manage to index billions of pages and compute their relevancies somewhat well. Once they find out how to sperate real content from bullshit, Google will be golden.

What I believe will gain popularity are Wikis. Tons of information is being compiled by real users, moderated by real users, which keeps the spam to a minimum and provides great and helpful information. There's that manual review process you all want, it lies within the community.

$5 submissions · 10-23-2005, 06:15 AM

Good post, Equinox. Definitely gives me something to think about.... hmmm industry-specific wikis?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equinox

Which SE will beat Google? None. First of all, google is years ahead in infrastructure to handle the immense load from billions of daily searches. And despite their flaws they do have algos that manage to index billions of pages and compute their relevancies somewhat well. Once they find out how to sperate real content from bullshit, Google will be golden.

What I believe will gain popularity are Wikis. Tons of information is being compiled by real users, moderated by real users, which keeps the spam to a minimum and provides great and helpful information. There's that manual review process you all want, it lies within the community.

Theo · 10-23-2005, 06:18 AM

I agree with equifax

although if amazon enters the SE game,I think it will gain a lot of popularity.

10-23-2005, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul_Rebel

I agree with equifax

although if amazon enters the SE game,I think it will gain a lot of popularity.

Hold on, did that not already happen?

http://a9.com

slapass · 10-23-2005, 06:42 AM

Microsoft blew it a few years ago. They owned the browser market and could have made that default page you dropped to a real search page looking for what page did not show up. We would all have evovled using their search. I still think they could do it. With the google toolbar I can set Google as the default if what I am looking for is not found. But new users etc will still use the regular browser. They could rule if they pushed that advantage.

Example type in qwertyyy.com in your adress bar.

MSN.com could make it so they come up with a page not found but these sites have qwertyyy.com in them.

Also I used IE for years and never noticed that little magnifying glass for "search". Put a damn type in box that says "search here". That runs to your own site. Bolt on a toolbar.

I think MSN could own Google if they capture the eyeballs they already have.

$5 submissions · 10-23-2005, 04:57 PM

MS can still do it. They have the network advantage. It's like owning the railroad tracks but not choosing to own the trains that run on it. The only question is...the technology, they have to come up with something just as good or better than Google's tech.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

Microsoft blew it a few years ago. They owned the browser market and could have made that default page you dropped to a real search page looking for what page did not show up. We would all have evovled using their search. I still think they could do it. With the google toolbar I can set Google as the default if what I am looking for is not found. But new users etc will still use the regular browser. They could rule if they pushed that advantage.

Example type in qwertyyy.com in your adress bar.

MSN.com could make it so they come up with a page not found but these sites have qwertyyy.com in them.

Also I used IE for years and never noticed that little magnifying glass for "search". Put a damn type in box that says "search here". That runs to your own site. Bolt on a toolbar.

I think MSN could own Google if they capture the eyeballs they already have.

detoxed · 10-23-2005, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

Microsoft blew it a few years ago. They owned the browser market and could have made that default page you dropped to a real search page looking for what page did not show up. We would all have evovled using their search. I still think they could do it. With the google toolbar I can set Google as the default if what I am looking for is not found. But new users etc will still use the regular browser. They could rule if they pushed that advantage.

Example type in qwertyyy.com in your adress bar.

MSN.com could make it so they come up with a page not found but these sites have qwertyyy.com in them.

Also I used IE for years and never noticed that little magnifying glass for "search". Put a damn type in box that says "search here". That runs to your own site. Bolt on a toolbar.

I think MSN could own Google if they capture the eyeballs they already have.

Well Microsoft also gets sued for every little thing... anti-trust, etc so they are basically limited in what they can do because of that. My opinion.

Nysus · 10-23-2005, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detoxed

Well Microsoft also gets sued for every little thing... anti-trust, etc so they are basically limited in what they can do because of that. My opinion.

Google will eventually grow so big that they will be sued for similar things as Microsoft; Google IS taking over online markets / multiple industries / services, and they're doing it because they have the ability to and to make more money of course; shareholders.

Google also has / is sued as well over certain issues, and currently they're making themselves more than a search engine, like how Microsoft made them more than an operating system; hence why everything that happened to Microsoft happened.

Matt

10-22-2005, 08:41 PM	#2
Morgan Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: Corona Del Mar, CA Posts: 10,520	milliondollarhomepage.com will beat google in teh end __________________ PornstarPlatinum.com \| TransErotica.com

10-22-2005, 09:34 PM	#9
DateDoc Outside looking in. Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: To Hell You Ride Posts: 14,243	I'd have to say any SE that gave you relevant answers to your search would be way better than Google. 9 out of 10 of the Google crap you get are not relevant at all. I used to use Google everyday but now I use Yahoo because the relevance of the results is 10 times better. Everyone wants to be listed on Google so everyone optimizes their sites for Google and spams their sites for Google. Being the so called "#1" SE has more problems than it is really worth. __________________

10-22-2005, 11:22 PM	#13
Pornwolf Drunk and Unruly Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 22,712	Whatever happened to DMOZ. It's what everone on this thread seems to be talking about anyways. __________________ I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade... Webair, bitches.

10-22-2005, 11:29 PM	#16
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	DMOZ crumbled under the gargantuan task of doing what the thread starter suggests - it's simply not doable - no company is going to invest in the number of human drones to do that job. if Google allows itself to be overrun by spammers like AltaVista did before it a new engine will emerge as king. Then that one will have its day until it loses the war and so on and so on ....... __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

10-23-2005, 12:44 AM	#21
Serge Litehead Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Behind the scenes Posts: 5,190	> Is it possible to improve on Google's game? Yes. > How about a manually indexed, scored, and cross-indexed search engine? No. __________________ SilverCrocodile.com Adult web design since '05

10-22-2005, 08:40 PM	#1
$5 submissions I help you SUCCEED Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Pearl of the Orient Seas Posts: 32,195	What kind of SE would BEAT Google? Is it possible to improve on Google's game? How about a manually indexed, scored, and cross-indexed search engine? __________________ Need a NON-ADULT income stream? We build your YOUTUBE CHANNEL for only $20 per video! For Hire: $3/hour or $400 per month Marketing Specialist Virtual Assistants

10-22-2005, 09:24 PM	#6
Flow Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 518	How about a search engine that ONLY gives you links to matrial that is what you did a search for. If I do a search for double anal fucking, I don't want 2 million links coming back with 1,999,990 being nothing but full page ads sites and not content. I guess the only way to do this would make it a search engine where every link is verified for content. I would say the submitter is only charged if they get listed or there is a small fee for submitting but then a larger fee if you actually get listed. Just my Flow

10-22-2005, 11:17 PM	#11
TheMob Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: 2006 Posts: 8,584	You guys are nuts. There is just too much data out there to archive it manually. dmoz is a pretty good example of good thing that just can't really work.

10-22-2005, 11:26 PM	#14
Murderous Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 3,938	The kind of SE that wields a sword and a shield.

10-23-2005, 12:32 AM	#17
Mr. Marks Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Wherever I want Posts: 7,517	DMOZ is still great because of PR benefits. I think a purely manual search engine that uses many differing sources of scoring would do well. What it needs to do is do well enough to gain credibility and a mass base and then it can do cybernetics (mixing human and automated inputs). It can definitely be done if someone puts in the time, money, and brains to do it. It definitely won't be done in one day and it will probably take a long long time for whoever builds it to get their money back.

10-23-2005, 12:39 AM	#19
BucksMania Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3,758	google evolves everyday, i don't think that someone will beat them soon

10-23-2005, 12:40 AM	#20
I Fucked Her Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 121	Google will rule 4ever --> my opinion

10-23-2005, 12:57 AM	#24
detoxed vip member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,798	Honestly... its all a business. Most of the time it is not a question of the best product, is a question of the best marketing/promotion/connections/money/everything else. To beat Google in my drunk and stoned mind, you need more wild out there ideas and money than anything else. Google gets by on wild ideas half of the time. The key is integrating everything you do into the daily life of everyone else.

10-23-2005, 02:09 AM	#28
MrChips Confirmed User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,504	The one which beats google will be the one which shows off all the great sites google sandboxes or hides - thats got to be in the millions now.

10-23-2005, 02:12 AM	#29
chaze Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 9,752	Easy one that updates daily.

10-23-2005, 02:50 AM	#31
TetsuoIronMan Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 140	There is no need for relevance, only to be slightly more relevant and innovative than your closest competitor. Keep your eyes on the ball. Money. What kind of se would beat google? MSN for example when they are successfully "integrating everything [they] do into the daily life of everyone else" __________________ meh

10-23-2005, 04:59 AM	#34
$5 submissions I help you SUCCEED Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Pearl of the Orient Seas Posts: 32,195	How about a personal researcher type of site? __________________ Need a NON-ADULT income stream? We build your YOUTUBE CHANNEL for only $20 per video! For Hire: $3/hour or $400 per month Marketing Specialist Virtual Assistants

10-23-2005, 05:22 AM	#35
sumphatpimp Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 5,235	you beat google by not trying to be google. be you own search engine, not a general search engine like google. be a specialized search engine; porn, engineering, science or art or whatever you want. but make it a specialized field, and make those search results relevent. you would need very good scrirpts to filter and filter again all submissions so that when it finally came to an editor most of the spam and horseshit had already been filtered out so as not to waste that editors time. make submitters pay a fee to submit pages; that should slow down a few spammers but not all. everytime a page is changed it has to be resubmitted and another fee paid. that fee should be enough to pay for the editors time and make a good profit for the company. that should cut down on spam, but not all. I think specialization and relevence is the way to beat google. after you get the first one up and running you can start another and later you have a whole network of them. all concentrating on one field only.

10-23-2005, 05:31 AM	#36
Drake Hello world! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 12,508	Manual indexing by itself couldn't work because you can never keep up. I can only see a search engine that offers both spidered and manually indexed results. Perhaps the top half of the screen could show the manually indexed results and the bottom half the spidered results. That way you get the best of both worlds. There will always be a compromise in both forms. Relevancy/Quality versus Quantity of search results.

10-23-2005, 05:33 AM	#37
Screaming I can change this!!!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 18,972	It is going to take alot to knock out google. __________________

10-23-2005, 05:40 AM	#39
X37375787 Guest Posts: n/a	Which SE will beat Google? None. First of all, google is years ahead in infrastructure to handle the immense load from billions of daily searches. And despite their flaws they do have algos that manage to index billions of pages and compute their relevancies somewhat well. Once they find out how to sperate real content from bullshit, Google will be golden. What I believe will gain popularity are Wikis. Tons of information is being compiled by real users, moderated by real users, which keeps the spam to a minimum and provides great and helpful information. There's that manual review process you all want, it lies within the community.

10-23-2005, 06:18 AM	#41
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	I agree with equifax although if amazon enters the SE game,I think it will gain a lot of popularity.

10-23-2005, 06:42 AM	#43
slapass Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 14,625	Microsoft blew it a few years ago. They owned the browser market and could have made that default page you dropped to a real search page looking for what page did not show up. We would all have evovled using their search. I still think they could do it. With the google toolbar I can set Google as the default if what I am looking for is not found. But new users etc will still use the regular browser. They could rule if they pushed that advantage. Example type in qwertyyy.com in your adress bar. MSN.com could make it so they come up with a page not found but these sites have qwertyyy.com in them. Also I used IE for years and never noticed that little magnifying glass for "search". Put a damn type in box that says "search here". That runs to your own site. Bolt on a toolbar. I think MSN could own Google if they capture the eyeballs they already have.