My review of NATS affiliate Software (long read, please don't flame me lol) - GoFuckYourself.com

sonofsam · 10-17-2005, 07:37 PM

Now before I start, I would just like to say that this is in no way trying to bash NATS, because it truly is a wonderful tool and has simplified my work greatly. This is just my review and I thought I would share it so that other small programs can see if this is a realistic alternative to lack of statistics and affiliate handling (i.e. Paycom). Before anyone asks why I did not talk to john about this in private, let me tell you that its because this shouldn?t be taken as drama.. This is more of a review to help out people that are in the same boat as me, trying to launch a small affiliate program.

Now there are also a few things I don?t like about NATS which I?ll address first so it?s easier.

1.) Conflict of Interest - It recently came to my attention that the owner of NATS also started his own affiliate program marketing solo girls?. At first this never bothered me at all, because I know john is a stand up guy from everyone I?ve talked to couldn?t talk any more highly of him. However the only thing that kind of bothered me was the fact that NATS tech people or whoever ? would periodically log into my admin since they have admin access to all NATS programs. This wouldn?t bother me as much if I knew who it was that was logging into my critical information (I.e. affiliate information, Current member information/emails etc) If it was john, I would have no problem but I know john doesn?t have the time to routinely log into peoples accounts.. that?s just something that stays at the back of my mind because I?m paranoid like that lol.. I just see it as if say the person handling your PPC campaigns started up their own site competing for the same keywords and they had access to your account to see what works and what doesn?t work. It obviously doesn?t mean the person handling your PPC account is going to log in and look at it, but just the thought and possibility is something that can cause you to feel a bit uncomfortable. This is an easy fix though, they could and I?m sure they would work with you on a solution to put your mind to rest (i.e. limiting the tech access the member/affiliate data, or only logging in when you request them to fix something? and not just at random) Again this is not an attack on them, it?s just something that has been on my mind and a few other program owners minds. It has nothing to do with their credibility, just something that after seeing so many stories about messed up stuff happening in this industry, is enough to cause some concern

2.) The Price ? Alright now NATS is a great piece of software, I just personally think that since its only them and MPA3 dominating the market that they can get away with charging a bit more then they should IN MY OPINION. 150/month for running 1 site is a bit steep but its well worth it? now the thing I don?t understand is that if you want to run more then 2 sites, it jumps up to 350/month? more then double your initial monthly cost, but it makes absolutely no difference to them how many sites you run so I don?t understand why the price jump would jump up to 350/month? and if you want to run more then 5 sites, its 650/month? which is an insane amount in my opinion for leasing software? Not everyone can afford to outright purchase the software for 12,000 dollars, but they still need affiliate software to help manage their sites. I understand they put a lot of work into their software and their tech support is top notch, but I still don?t see 650/month a reasonable figure for affiliate software, but that?s just me. For a small site like mine starting out (www.juliablue.com), if you are doing 60/40 rev-share you would have to be doing 18.75 sales a month to pay for your NATS.. and that?s excluding dedicated hosting costs? also a lot of people don?t have the same business model. Not everyone wants to build 1 site to 10 joins a day then move on to adding another program. Personally I am building up 3 more sites as we speak to launch and can?t bring myself to pay 650/month to have more then 5 sites.
I?ll tell you the honest truth, that if another affiliate software program came along, I would jump ship from NATS and switch over, not because I don?t like NATS? but just because it?s not a reasonable solution for small programs such as myself? so if you are a BIG program, by all means I think NATS is the top choice. However if you are a small program, and your only option of processing is Paycom, sorry to say but you?re a bit shit out of luck as far as tracking and affiliate handling goes.

Okay now that those 2 things are out of the way, I?d like to talk about the positive things about NATS

1.) Affiliate Handling ? NATS makes this a breeze, it is EXTREMELY easy to manage affiliates, set special payouts, give them in depth stats and let them create their own campaigns to track their clicks

2.) Reports ? AMAZING reporting system, jam packed full of charts and other things that I am still learning to use to its full potential, break down stats by day / month / period / year and it breaks it down by Program / by site / by affiliate in a VERY easy to read and simple way? every day when you log in it?ll give you everything you need to know on 1 page, which affiliate is sending the most, the top converting affiliate, the worst converting affiliates, how many sales you?ve made, how many new affiliates have signed up and which of those new affiliates has thrown up links already

3.) Payments ? NATS makes paying affiliates a BREEZE. You can see who has reached minimum payout and select them as paid once you?ve paid them, and it also logs it under your affiliates overview? so if you ever have an affiliate complaining about missed payment or late payment, there will be no scrambling to look up his info because all his info will be stored under his overview

4.) Always advancing ? NATS is always improving and I must say I?m very impressed with how much work they put into it, there are always things being adding and tweaked and its nice to see them putting a lot of effort into their software (please don?t use #4 as a counter-argument about the price, lol jk)

5.) Support ? top notch support system. On top of having a huge knowledge base of tutorials you can search though, they have a ticket system that is bar-none the best I?ve ever had the pleasure of complaining and whining through? and everything is replied to within 24 hours guaranteed? and they are not outsourced tech people who have no idea what they are talking about? as bringer said the other day ?when you ask for promo material and the answer you get is Car Bird Water Hose, you stop asking questions? haha Best support I?ve ever seen

Conclusion: NATS is top notch software, and if they could just fix a couple of those things, it would be the best software available on the market and would appeal to many more people, especially the huge amount of small programs out there currently, and just starting up. Most of the people I?ve talked to who wanted to use NATS said the only thing holding them back was the price. Right now I?m okay with paying 150/month for 1 site? but for the other sites I?m launching I don?t think I will be using NATS unless they work something into their business plan that can work with smaller programs as well.

Please keep the flaming to a minimum regarding ?that?s the cost of doing business, don?t whine? because even though a lot of people portray themselves to be making multi-millions, we are not all as rich as everyone else lol.

Alright? hope some of you take the time to read all that and share some insight

Sonofsam

dropped9 · 10-17-2005, 07:38 PM

sig spot reserved....

pubenemy · 10-17-2005, 07:42 PM

This thread makes me wish I had a sig.

Nader · 10-17-2005, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pubenemy

This thread makes me wish I had a sig.

you can use one of ours

d00t · 10-17-2005, 07:45 PM

uhhh ohhhhh

ShaneRyale · 10-17-2005, 07:47 PM

NATS has worked well with our program for some time now. I agree with all of your positive points, and I'm not sure you negative points are really point, but opinions that you have regarding credibility and price.

John, Charlie and the NATS crew have been great to work with and I'm sure we'll be customers of theirs for many years to come!

SmokeyTheBear · 10-17-2005, 07:48 PM

good post

..

Patrick_Bateman · 10-17-2005, 07:49 PM

see sig

TMM_John · 10-17-2005, 07:49 PM

A quick reply to the negative points...

1) I've been involved in the adult industry since long before NATS was around. I know you weren't implying that I was, but I'm not here to steal any of your data. If I were looking to steal your data you would not know I was running Teen Dolls as I would have run it under another name or something. As for our employees, they are not allowed to operate adult sites due to the conflict of interest and the fact that although we totally trust them I can never trust them as much as I trust myself. They do login to systems from time to time when an issue may pop up (to see if it effects you) to work on an older ticket, check something, etc. You are more than welcome to lock them out if you feel uncomfortable. A few programs do, the vast majority don't.

2) A much easier answer... we weren't planning on announcing it quite yet but we'll be lifting (or at least greatly expanding) the site limitations on the NATS lease levels. As our support has gotten better the # of sites has become nearly irrelevant to time required on our end so we're pretty much lifting the limitation and the lease level will be (most likely) based only on sales. If we keep limits they will be like 15 for NATSlite, 30 for NATSplus, or something like that.

OK, I'm off to read the good stuff now.

Thank you sonofsam for posting something constructive and expressing your opinions

webgurl · 10-17-2005, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaneRyale

NATS has worked well with our program for some time now. I agree with all of your positive points, and I'm not sure you negative points are really point, but opinions that you have regarding credibility and price.

John, Charlie and the NATS crew have been great to work with and I'm sure we'll be customers of theirs for many years to come!

good post shane

KMR Stitch · 10-17-2005, 07:52 PM

Pretty good read.

sonofsam · 10-17-2005, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaneRyale

NATS has worked well with our program for some time now. I agree with all of your positive points, and I'm not sure you negative points are really point, but opinions that you have regarding credibility and price.

John, Charlie and the NATS crew have been great to work with and I'm sure we'll be customers of theirs for many years to come!

exactly the kind of response i was expecting

"john is a standup guy etc etc"

i know he is, i have nothing but love for the guy but i gave my review based on MY OPINION regardless of how i feel for the guy... and i too hope to be using nats for years to come

sonofsam · 10-17-2005, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn

A quick reply to the negative points...

1) I've been involved in the adult industry since long before NATS was around. I know you weren't implying that I was, but I'm not here to steal any of your data. If I were looking to steal your data you would not know I was running Teen Dolls as I would have run it under another name or something. As for our employees, they are not allowed to operate adult sites due to the conflict of interest and the fact that although we totally trust them I can never trust them as much as I trust myself. They do login to systems from time to time when an issue may pop up (to see if it effects you) to work on an older ticket, check something, etc. You are more than welcome to lock them out if you feel uncomfortable. A few programs do, the vast majority don't.

2) A much easier answer... we weren't planning on announcing it quite yet but we'll be lifting (or at least greatly expanding) the site limitations on the NATS lease levels. As our support has gotten better the # of sites has become nearly irrelevant to time required on our end so we're pretty much lifting the limitation and the lease level will be (most likely) based only on sales. If we keep limits they will be like 15 for NATSlite, 30 for NATSplus, or something like that.

OK, I'm off to read the good stuff now.

Thank you sonofsam for posting something constructive and expressing your opinions

Thank you for not taking that as an attack on you and addressing the concerns, i know a lot of people felt the same way i did but they just didn't know how to word it to not come off like an attack.. You basically just squashed both of the concerns... so now that only leaves the possitives

for you john

TMM_John · 10-17-2005, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofsam

exactly the kind of response i was expecting

"john is a standup guy etc etc"

i know he is, i have nothing but love for the guy but i gave my review based on MY OPINION regardless of how i feel for the guy... and i too hope to be using nats for years to come

(Thanks Shane)

Just so you know sonofsam, I understand your point and wasn't offended by it at all. Profit from NATS however is currently being reinvested back into NATS (hence the constant growth and imporvement) and I still need to eat

I can't simply give up what I've been doing for years. If someone wanted to steal your data there are lots of easier ways to do it. Again, I'm not offended at all and understand your point. As for the employees issue, it was in my reply above. I wish there was a simple solution that would make everyone forget it but this industry can be quite shady at times so there will always be a bit of nervousness with things like that. You can of course lock us out of your system if you're that uneasy with it (You being general, not you yourself). It really just comes down to someone's reputation which is what I think Shane's point was.

MrIzzz · 10-17-2005, 07:57 PM

i had cheeseburgers for dinner

ShaneRyale · 10-17-2005, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofsam

exactly the kind of response i was expecting

"john is a standup guy etc etc"

i know he is, i have nothing but love for the guy but i gave my review based on MY OPINION regardless of how i feel for the guy... and i too hope to be using nats for years to come

Don't get me wrong. I thought your post was a good post that was well thought out and actually had some substance to it. Nice to see post like that on GFY. Anyone who knows John will definately say he's a good person, and I agree with everything else you had to say as well!

xlogger · 10-17-2005, 07:58 PM

Stealing data is so fucking easy.

I know people that can get mysql data from almost any fucking server.

ShaneRyale · 10-17-2005, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webgurl

good post shane

Haven't seen you in awhile, Hopefully I'll get to see you in LA!

sonofsam · 10-17-2005, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaneRyale

Don't get me wrong. I thought your post was a good post that was well thought out and actually had some substance to it. Nice to see post like that on GFY. Anyone who knows John will definately say he's a good person, and I agree with everything else you had to say as well!

sorry i took your first post wrong, i thought it was like "i met this guy at a show so hes a standup guy"

again, i know john is a standup guy, but in this industry... shit will always play in the back of your mind because of how many bad things have happened

but the fact that he just addressed my concerns appropriately is appreciated, and i won't even be requesting to remove their access... its just something that i wanted to address as WELL as all the possitive things nats offers

10-17-2005, 08:04 PM

Excellent post. We have been using NATS for quite some time and we have nothing but priase for the program and it's creators.

I'm also glad to hear that the pricing structure is being edited. This is great news for small site owners.

TMM_John · 10-17-2005, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofsam

Okay now that those 2 things are out of the way, I?d like to talk about the positive things about NATS

1.) Affiliate Handling ? NATS makes this a breeze, it is EXTREMELY easy to manage affiliates, set special payouts, give them in depth stats and let them create their own campaigns to track their clicks

2.) Reports ? AMAZING reporting system, jam packed full of charts and other things that I am still learning to use to its full potential, break down stats by day / month / period / year and it breaks it down by Program / by site / by affiliate in a VERY easy to read and simple way? every day when you log in it?ll give you everything you need to know on 1 page, which affiliate is sending the most, the top converting affiliate, the worst converting affiliates, how many sales you?ve made, how many new affiliates have signed up and which of those new affiliates has thrown up links already

3.) Payments ? NATS makes paying affiliates a BREEZE. You can see who has reached minimum payout and select them as paid once you?ve paid them, and it also logs it under your affiliates overview? so if you ever have an affiliate complaining about missed payment or late payment, there will be no scrambling to look up his info because all his info will be stored under his overview

4.) Always advancing ? NATS is always improving and I must say I?m very impressed with how much work they put into it, there are always things being adding and tweaked and its nice to see them putting a lot of effort into their software (please don?t use #4 as a counter-argument about the price, lol jk)

5.) Support ? top notch support system. On top of having a huge knowledge base of tutorials you can search though, they have a ticket system that is bar-none the best I?ve ever had the pleasure of complaining and whining through? and everything is replied to within 24 hours guaranteed? and they are not outsourced tech people who have no idea what they are talking about? as bringer said the other day ?when you ask for promo material and the answer you get is Car Bird Water Hose, you stop asking questions? haha Best support I?ve ever seen

Conclusion: NATS is top notch software, and if they could just fix a couple of those things, it would be the best software available on the market and would appeal to many more people, especially the huge amount of small programs out there currently, and just starting up. Most of the people I?ve talked to who wanted to use NATS said the only thing holding them back was the price. Right now I?m okay with paying 150/month for 1 site? but for the other sites I?m launching I don?t think I will be using NATS unless they work something into their business plan that can work with smaller programs as well.

Please keep the flaming to a minimum regarding ?that?s the cost of doing business, don?t whine? because even though a lot of people portray themselves to be making multi-millions, we are not all as rich as everyone else lol.

Alright? hope some of you take the time to read all that and share some insight

Sonofsam

1) Thanks

A lot of people seem to think NATS is "cascading" software. It really does much much more than that. It's your entire financial and administration backend for your affiliate program. You can do things with it you can't do without a fully featured affiliate back end.

2) Fabian is a stats whore

We're always looking for ideas and concepts for new reports so please, if you can think of anything let us know and we'll see if we can pull out the data and format it pretty for you

3) This has been a big concern of a lot of smaller programs thinking of making the move to NATS and I'm glad to see you like the way it works. I always try to explain to them that it's not as bad as they imagine. We've also got a few new things coming soon that will improve upon affiliate payout even more. Hopefully we'll have an update on that towards the end of the month.

4) Thanks

As I said above NATS is growing very quickly. We know we will never be perfect and we always look for the areas where we have the biggest problems or lack the most and address them while at the same time looking to expand into things no one is doing or has thought of yet. As long as we can continue to do both things should be great for a long time to come

5) My nemesis

Support is hands down the hardest part of software devleopment. Things were a bit bumpy a year or so ago when we first started out (as I said, no one is perfect) but IMO we have greatly improved our support by brining on quality, intellegent, US based in house staff and training them well. Boris, Valerie, Steve, along with Fabian have done a fantasitc job at learning both the adult industry and our products. Our support turnaround continues to get better and better and clients are needing less and less support as our knowledge base grows and product improves. Jason, who just had his first day at Too Much Media looks like he will also be a great asset to us. Those of you who are our clients will be dealing with him soon enough as he has been brought on 100% for support and not for development.

Thanks again sonofsam for posting your honest thoughts about us. I know people love to start "drama" all the time. If some of them would act more mature and professional as you have and bring up their concerns in a contructive way this industry would be a much nicer place

TMM_John · 10-17-2005, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xlogger

Stealing data is so fucking easy.

I know people that can get mysql data from almost any fucking server.

Exactly. There are still a few "conspiracy theorists" out there who think NATS is a big email harvester. Believe me, if we wanted to harvest emails hiring a few overseas hackers would have been much cheaper, quicker, quieter, and less stressful.

brand0n · 10-17-2005, 08:07 PM

150 a month for 1 site isnt bad, but going to 350 for 2, once no change is needed is kinda a hike.

it would make sense to cut a break from the 1st 1. say charge 200 a month for the 1st then 50 a site after?

just thinking...

sonofsam · 10-17-2005, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn

3) This has been a big concern of a lot of smaller programs thinking of making the move to NATS and I'm glad to see you like the way it works. I always try to explain to them that it's not as bad as they imagine. We've also got a few new things coming soon that will improve upon affiliate payout even more. Hopefully we'll have an update on that towards the end of the month.

I actually prefer paying affiliates myself, of course i havn't had the pleasure to do that as often since i am not doing payouts every day since im smaller... but i think it adds a personal touch to help create trust between the affiliate and program, instead of them just getting paid by paycom or ccbill

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 10-17-2005, 08:09 PM

In all honesty I do not know why anyone would agree with the compromise of sensitive program information with a company that holds a conflict of interest.

I will never be a fan of NATS for more reasons than that alone. The kind of reasons that span a conflict of interest for the whole industry.

Peeps that use NATS must be insane.

sonofsam · 10-17-2005, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brand0n

150 a month for 1 site isnt bad, but going to 350 for 2, once no change is needed is kinda a hike.

it would make sense to cut a break from the 1st 1. say charge 200 a month for the 1st then 50 a site after?

just thinking...

he just addressed that and they are going to be doin an overhaul

TMM_John · 10-17-2005, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brand0n

150 a month for 1 site isnt bad, but going to 350 for 2, once no change is needed is kinda a hike.

it would make sense to cut a break from the 1st 1. say charge 200 a month for the 1st then 50 a site after?

just thinking...

The 150 covered up to 2 sites and if a program was new and struggling with sales and talked to us we always allowed them more.

However, we are almost definately doing away totally with the site limits. If we don't do away with them they will be much much much higher so there shouldn't be an issue anymore.

abyss_al · 10-17-2005, 08:10 PM

nats is bomb... we have been using them on some 'secret site' for a while now... great stuff... and he bought me a drink in AZ after we had a looong talk

price: nothing wrong with it imo... for a starter, 150 is nothing, thats if the site is being launched right, then the owner should have the budget for it, not mickey moused in hopes when it makes money etc etc... goes for multiple sites too..

TMM_John · 10-17-2005, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofsam

I actually prefer paying affiliates myself, of course i havn't had the pleasure to do that as often since i am not doing payouts every day since im smaller... but i think it adds a personal touch to help create trust between the affiliate and program, instead of them just getting paid by paycom or ccbill

I agree. It makes you also look like a more established company. It builds trust with affiliates quite quickly when payments come from you on time.

Head_Hunter · 10-17-2005, 08:16 PM

Very good post and i stand by what i said about you the other night

nofx · 10-17-2005, 08:17 PM

sos you be crazy

<3

SmokeyTheBear · 10-17-2005, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn

A quick reply to the negative points...

1) I've been involved in the adult industry since long before NATS was around. I know you weren't implying that I was, but I'm not here to steal any of your data. If I were looking to steal your data you would not know I was running Teen Dolls as I would have run it under another name or something. As for our employees, they are not allowed to operate adult sites due to the conflict of interest and the fact that although we totally trust them I can never trust them as much as I trust myself. They do login to systems from time to time when an issue may pop up (to see if it effects you) to work on an older ticket, check something, etc. You are more than welcome to lock them out if you feel uncomfortable. A few programs do, the vast majority don't.

2) A much easier answer... we weren't planning on announcing it quite yet but we'll be lifting (or at least greatly expanding) the site limitations on the NATS lease levels. As our support has gotten better the # of sites has become nearly irrelevant to time required on our end so we're pretty much lifting the limitation and the lease level will be (most likely) based only on sales. If we keep limits they will be like 15 for NATSlite, 30 for NATSplus, or something like that.

OK, I'm off to read the good stuff now.

Thank you sonofsam for posting something constructive and expressing your opinions

good response

MikeSmoke · 10-17-2005, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn

we weren't planning on announcing it quite yet but we'll be lifting (or at least greatly expanding) the site limitations on the NATS lease levels. As our support has gotten better the # of sites has become nearly irrelevant to time required on our end so we're pretty much lifting the limitation and the lease level will be (most likely) based only on sales. If we keep limits they will be like 15 for NATSlite, 30 for NATSplus, or something like that.

Now that is GREAT news, John :-)
Is there any time frame on this? I've been holding off on deciding a bunch of stuff just because of the site limitations, so the sooner the better ;-)

XPays · 10-17-2005, 08:30 PM

The choices are limited out there and if you do not like using other people's software for your affiliate program, then you would have to code it yourself. Economies of scale kick in when you choose to go with a third party solution and it would definitely cost you a grip to code your own affiliate software- let alone maintain it and improve it etc. fyi.

poorwebmaster · 10-17-2005, 08:34 PM

interesting..well, see sig

sonofsam · 10-17-2005, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XPays

The choices are limited out there and if you do not like using other people's software for your affiliate program, then you would have to code it yourself. Economies of scale kick in when you choose to go with a third party solution and it would definitely cost you a grip to code your own affiliate software- let alone maintain it and improve it etc. fyi.

the only concerns i had with the software have been addressed and solved, everything else i was completely happy with

XPays · 10-17-2005, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofsam

the only concerns i had with the software have been addressed and solved, everything else i was completely happy with

what was your rant about then in the first post besides the software? that did not read like a greeting card exactly, lol.

sonofsam · 10-17-2005, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XPays

what was your rant about then in the first post besides the software? that did not read like a greeting card exactly, lol.

well if you read the initial post and then johns followup post you'll see

vvq · 10-17-2005, 08:47 PM

good questions. great answers. NATS rocks

boner 2.0 · 10-17-2005, 09:00 PM

I've bookmarked this thread for future reading

Tanker · 10-17-2005, 09:03 PM

I have worked for a few companies that used NATS and I have always enjoyed using it. Sometimes I think that the wording is hard to understand when using the knowledge base I think that its writen for programmers by programmers. A good technical editor that could rewrite it for end users would make life easier.

thats the one think I have had problems with but the Tech staff always helps me out! they are excellent.

Now that Ellisa and I have our own program we are excited to be able to use the same back end that we have been working with for the past few years.

SomeCreep · 10-17-2005, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofsam

Now before I start,
.
.
.

Alright? hope some of you take the time to read all that and share some insight

Sonofsam

Good post man

Shoehorn! · 10-17-2005, 09:18 PM

Nice post man. The only beef I have with you is that those cupcakes you baked for me had out of season decorations on them. This is fucking October, you don't put Christmas colored sprinkles on Halloween cupcakes.

Joesho · 10-17-2005, 09:32 PM

NATS has been very helpful and very responsive to us. John is a pleasure to talk to .

I think you raised some valid questions SOS and I think John answeared to the satisfaction of most. Kudos to both of you and thanks for a good thread here it was refreshing to see good exchanges without all the bullshit.

Argoz · 10-17-2005, 09:36 PM

Interesting

Donny · 10-17-2005, 09:40 PM

I have to admit to you that concern about stealing member information is the reason I am not using NATS. I fully intended to sign up for NATS in Phoenix this year but two former users told me their concerns, which caused me to change my mind. The main concern was that it seemed John's programs were growing at an extraordinary rate and "how could that happen without stealing information?".

Please note: I am not saying this is the case. I am saying these are the concerns that were expressed to me and the reasons I changed my mind.

I wish i didn't have those concerns because I would love to use their software. Or MPA3's software. Alas, I have sat back and used neither.

Tat2Jr · 10-17-2005, 09:48 PM

The only beef I have with NATS is that they always have their parties in NJ instead of CA.

TMM_John · 10-17-2005, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonovanPhillips

I have to admit to you that concern about stealing member information is the reason I am not using NATS. I fully intended to sign up for NATS in Phoenix this year but two former users told me their concerns, which caused me to change my mind. The main concern was that it seemed John's programs were growing at an extraordinary rate and "how could that happen without stealing information?".

Please note: I am not saying this is the case. I am saying these are the concerns that were expressed to me and the reasons I changed my mind.

I wish i didn't have those concerns because I would love to use their software. Or MPA3's software. Alas, I have sat back and used neither.

Perhaps in addition to the two who left you should have also spoken with the well over 100 happy clients of ours

As I said before I understand the concern and I'd give you a longer reply but I lost all respect for you when you said how you sat on a bug in our code for a few months and used it to access things you weren't supposed to instead of coming to us with it so we could fix it.

And for the record my programs have not grown substantially since NATS has been around. Certain people love to assume. Some of the things I've heard have come out of people's mouths are downright insulting and ridiculous but I've learned to ignore them.

CybermedAndy · 10-17-2005, 10:00 PM

This thread is refreshing to say the least.

Nice to see things discussed openly and intelligently and opinions offered on a popular program like NATS.

Threads like this should be offered about all different programs and software- likes and dislikes, advantages and disadvantages, etc.

This sort of dicussion you should be done with different programs regularily, like Sleazy's interviews.

Ice · 10-17-2005, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NichePay_Nader

you can use one of ours

Nader in there like a fat kid on a twinkie

10-17-2005, 07:37 PM	#1
sonofsam Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver Posts: 18,638	My review of NATS affiliate Software (long read, please don't flame me lol) Now before I start, I would just like to say that this is in no way trying to bash NATS, because it truly is a wonderful tool and has simplified my work greatly. This is just my review and I thought I would share it so that other small programs can see if this is a realistic alternative to lack of statistics and affiliate handling (i.e. Paycom). Before anyone asks why I did not talk to john about this in private, let me tell you that its because this shouldn?t be taken as drama.. This is more of a review to help out people that are in the same boat as me, trying to launch a small affiliate program. Now there are also a few things I don?t like about NATS which I?ll address first so it?s easier. 1.) Conflict of Interest - It recently came to my attention that the owner of NATS also started his own affiliate program marketing solo girls?. At first this never bothered me at all, because I know john is a stand up guy from everyone I?ve talked to couldn?t talk any more highly of him. However the only thing that kind of bothered me was the fact that NATS tech people or whoever ? would periodically log into my admin since they have admin access to all NATS programs. This wouldn?t bother me as much if I knew who it was that was logging into my critical information (I.e. affiliate information, Current member information/emails etc) If it was john, I would have no problem but I know john doesn?t have the time to routinely log into peoples accounts.. that?s just something that stays at the back of my mind because I?m paranoid like that lol.. I just see it as if say the person handling your PPC campaigns started up their own site competing for the same keywords and they had access to your account to see what works and what doesn?t work. It obviously doesn?t mean the person handling your PPC account is going to log in and look at it, but just the thought and possibility is something that can cause you to feel a bit uncomfortable. This is an easy fix though, they could and I?m sure they would work with you on a solution to put your mind to rest (i.e. limiting the tech access the member/affiliate data, or only logging in when you request them to fix something? and not just at random) Again this is not an attack on them, it?s just something that has been on my mind and a few other program owners minds. It has nothing to do with their credibility, just something that after seeing so many stories about messed up stuff happening in this industry, is enough to cause some concern 2.) The Price ? Alright now NATS is a great piece of software, I just personally think that since its only them and MPA3 dominating the market that they can get away with charging a bit more then they should IN MY OPINION. 150/month for running 1 site is a bit steep but its well worth it? now the thing I don?t understand is that if you want to run more then 2 sites, it jumps up to 350/month? more then double your initial monthly cost, but it makes absolutely no difference to them how many sites you run so I don?t understand why the price jump would jump up to 350/month? and if you want to run more then 5 sites, its 650/month? which is an insane amount in my opinion for leasing software? Not everyone can afford to outright purchase the software for 12,000 dollars, but they still need affiliate software to help manage their sites. I understand they put a lot of work into their software and their tech support is top notch, but I still don?t see 650/month a reasonable figure for affiliate software, but that?s just me. For a small site like mine starting out (www.juliablue.com), if you are doing 60/40 rev-share you would have to be doing 18.75 sales a month to pay for your NATS.. and that?s excluding dedicated hosting costs? also a lot of people don?t have the same business model. Not everyone wants to build 1 site to 10 joins a day then move on to adding another program. Personally I am building up 3 more sites as we speak to launch and can?t bring myself to pay 650/month to have more then 5 sites. I?ll tell you the honest truth, that if another affiliate software program came along, I would jump ship from NATS and switch over, not because I don?t like NATS? but just because it?s not a reasonable solution for small programs such as myself? so if you are a BIG program, by all means I think NATS is the top choice. However if you are a small program, and your only option of processing is Paycom, sorry to say but you?re a bit shit out of luck as far as tracking and affiliate handling goes. Okay now that those 2 things are out of the way, I?d like to talk about the positive things about NATS 1.) Affiliate Handling ? NATS makes this a breeze, it is EXTREMELY easy to manage affiliates, set special payouts, give them in depth stats and let them create their own campaigns to track their clicks 2.) Reports ? AMAZING reporting system, jam packed full of charts and other things that I am still learning to use to its full potential, break down stats by day / month / period / year and it breaks it down by Program / by site / by affiliate in a VERY easy to read and simple way? every day when you log in it?ll give you everything you need to know on 1 page, which affiliate is sending the most, the top converting affiliate, the worst converting affiliates, how many sales you?ve made, how many new affiliates have signed up and which of those new affiliates has thrown up links already 3.) Payments ? NATS makes paying affiliates a BREEZE. You can see who has reached minimum payout and select them as paid once you?ve paid them, and it also logs it under your affiliates overview? so if you ever have an affiliate complaining about missed payment or late payment, there will be no scrambling to look up his info because all his info will be stored under his overview 4.) Always advancing ? NATS is always improving and I must say I?m very impressed with how much work they put into it, there are always things being adding and tweaked and its nice to see them putting a lot of effort into their software (please don?t use #4 as a counter-argument about the price, lol jk) 5.) Support ? top notch support system. On top of having a huge knowledge base of tutorials you can search though, they have a ticket system that is bar-none the best I?ve ever had the pleasure of complaining and whining through? and everything is replied to within 24 hours guaranteed? and they are not outsourced tech people who have no idea what they are talking about? as bringer said the other day ?when you ask for promo material and the answer you get is Car Bird Water Hose, you stop asking questions? haha Best support I?ve ever seen Conclusion: NATS is top notch software, and if they could just fix a couple of those things, it would be the best software available on the market and would appeal to many more people, especially the huge amount of small programs out there currently, and just starting up. Most of the people I?ve talked to who wanted to use NATS said the only thing holding them back was the price. Right now I?m okay with paying 150/month for 1 site? but for the other sites I?m launching I don?t think I will be using NATS unless they work something into their business plan that can work with smaller programs as well. Please keep the flaming to a minimum regarding ?that?s the cost of doing business, don?t whine? because even though a lot of people portray themselves to be making multi-millions, we are not all as rich as everyone else lol. Alright? hope some of you take the time to read all that and share some insight Sonofsam __________________ I like turtles. Last edited by TexasDreams; 10-17-2005 at 07:45 PM..

10-17-2005, 07:42 PM	#3
pubenemy Confirmed User Join Date: May 2004 Location: SW FL Posts: 990	This thread makes me wish I had a sig. __________________ ICQ: 22-920-445 Aim: OGpubenemy

10-17-2005, 07:47 PM	#6
ShaneRyale Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 961	NATS has worked well with our program for some time now. I agree with all of your positive points, and I'm not sure you negative points are really point, but opinions that you have regarding credibility and price. John, Charlie and the NATS crew have been great to work with and I'm sure we'll be customers of theirs for many years to come! __________________ Shane - Affiliate Manager [email protected] ICQ: 170164556 See Who I Am At AdultWhosWho.com!

10-17-2005, 07:48 PM	#7
SmokeyTheBear ►SouthOfHeaven Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: PlanetEarth MyBoardRank: GerbilMaster My-Penis-Size: extralarge MyWeapon: Computer Posts: 28,609	good post .. __________________ hatisblack at yahoo.com

10-17-2005, 07:49 PM	#9
TMM_John Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 6,660	A quick reply to the negative points... 1) I've been involved in the adult industry since long before NATS was around. I know you weren't implying that I was, but I'm not here to steal any of your data. If I were looking to steal your data you would not know I was running Teen Dolls as I would have run it under another name or something. As for our employees, they are not allowed to operate adult sites due to the conflict of interest and the fact that although we totally trust them I can never trust them as much as I trust myself. They do login to systems from time to time when an issue may pop up (to see if it effects you) to work on an older ticket, check something, etc. You are more than welcome to lock them out if you feel uncomfortable. A few programs do, the vast majority don't. 2) A much easier answer... we weren't planning on announcing it quite yet but we'll be lifting (or at least greatly expanding) the site limitations on the NATS lease levels. As our support has gotten better the # of sites has become nearly irrelevant to time required on our end so we're pretty much lifting the limitation and the lease level will be (most likely) based only on sales. If we keep limits they will be like 15 for NATSlite, 30 for NATSplus, or something like that. OK, I'm off to read the good stuff now. Thank you sonofsam for posting something constructive and expressing your opinions __________________ Skype: JohnA1078 Too Much Media - Makers of the Industry's Leading Payite Management Platform, NATS!

10-17-2005, 07:38 PM	#2
dropped9 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Your moms box Posts: 26,727	sig spot reserved....

10-17-2005, 07:45 PM	#5
d00t Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In your mind Posts: 3,766	uhhh ohhhhh

10-17-2005, 07:49 PM	#8
Patrick_Bateman Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 280	see sig

10-17-2005, 07:52 PM	#11
KMR Stitch I am cool Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 14,494	Pretty good read.

10-17-2005, 07:57 PM	#15
MrIzzz If u touch it, I will cum Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: long island Posts: 22,923	i had cheeseburgers for dinner __________________ WHO WANTS TO PLAY GRAB-ASS?

10-17-2005, 07:58 PM	#17
xlogger Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: NY Posts: 9,507	Stealing data is so fucking easy. I know people that can get mysql data from almost any fucking server. __________________ ---------- XLOGGER [REFLECTED] [OH] Last edited by xlogger; 10-17-2005 at 07:59 PM..

10-17-2005, 08:04 PM	#20
shermo Guest Posts: n/a	Excellent post. We have been using NATS for quite some time and we have nothing but priase for the program and it's creators. I'm also glad to hear that the pricing structure is being edited. This is great news for small site owners.

10-17-2005, 08:07 PM	#23
brand0n been very busy Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: the queen city Posts: 26,983	150 a month for 1 site isnt bad, but going to 350 for 2, once no change is needed is kinda a hike. it would make sense to cut a break from the 1st 1. say charge 200 a month for the 1st then 50 a site after? just thinking... __________________ want to buy this spot for cheap? it is of course for sale. long term deals are always the best bet. brand0n/ at/ a o l dot commies.

10-17-2005, 08:09 PM	#25
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	In all honesty I do not know why anyone would agree with the compromise of sensitive program information with a company that holds a conflict of interest. I will never be a fan of NATS for more reasons than that alone. The kind of reasons that span a conflict of interest for the whole industry. Peeps that use NATS must be insane. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \| Last edited by AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE; 10-17-2005 at 08:11 PM..

10-17-2005, 08:10 PM	#28
abyss_al LOOKING FOR TRADES Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 15,605	nats is bomb... we have been using them on some 'secret site' for a while now... great stuff... and he bought me a drink in AZ after we had a looong talk price: nothing wrong with it imo... for a starter, 150 is nothing, thats if the site is being launched right, then the owner should have the budget for it, not mickey moused in hopes when it makes money etc etc... goes for multiple sites too.. __________________ EMAIL: allen @ vasmediagroup.com \| ICQ: 311329761 \| SKYPE: abyss.al \| AIM: xABYSSxALx

10-17-2005, 08:16 PM	#30
Head_Hunter So Fucking Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 907	Very good post and i stand by what i said about you the other night

10-17-2005, 08:17 PM	#31
nofx Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Virgin Mary's womb Posts: 16,826	sos you be crazy <3 __________________ Often times I wonder why There's love and hate, theres live or die. When sickness comes I must decide: When feelings go, theres suicide.

10-17-2005, 08:30 PM	#34
XPays Team Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Inside the most accurately counting and reporting affiliate system in the world at XPays.com Posts: 13,002	The choices are limited out there and if you do not like using other people's software for your affiliate program, then you would have to code it yourself. Economies of scale kick in when you choose to go with a third party solution and it would definitely cost you a grip to code your own affiliate software- let alone maintain it and improve it etc. fyi. __________________ InterNext Expo Domain Auction Live Now thru Feb 5 HuntingMoon GFY Domains Marketplace is LIVE XPays always pays! Top Site: * RealJasmine.com * + HotelHeiress® with The Paris Hilton Sex Video Insert the HotelHeiress® HD FEED into your members areas XPin.com Opening for Pin Partners Soonish Mainstream Offers For Emailers and DomainersNONADULT.COM Like Us!

10-17-2005, 08:34 PM	#35
poorwebmaster Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Earth Posts: 1,137	interesting..well, see sig __________________

10-17-2005, 08:47 PM	#39
vvq Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: TrafficGigolos.com Posts: 2,732	good questions. great answers. NATS rocks __________________ SQUIRTING - LESBIAN SPANKING - TITTY FUCKING - WET PANTIES - MORE We offer free hosting, your own designer (works for free), and unsaturated content for gallery and free site submitters. Just contact me! E-mail: [email protected]

10-17-2005, 09:00 PM	#40
boner 2.0 Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 10,970	I've bookmarked this thread for future reading __________________

10-17-2005, 09:03 PM	#41
Tanker Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada Posts: 9,287	I have worked for a few companies that used NATS and I have always enjoyed using it. Sometimes I think that the wording is hard to understand when using the knowledge base I think that its writen for programmers by programmers. A good technical editor that could rewrite it for end users would make life easier. thats the one think I have had problems with but the Tech staff always helps me out! they are excellent. Now that Ellisa and I have our own program we are excited to be able to use the same back end that we have been working with for the past few years. __________________ Tanker ICQ 3427575 CCBTools Now featured in the CCBill.com APP STORE

10-17-2005, 09:18 PM	#43
Shoehorn! Die With Your Boots On Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hawaii Posts: 22,872	Nice post man. The only beef I have with you is that those cupcakes you baked for me had out of season decorations on them. This is fucking October, you don't put Christmas colored sprinkles on Halloween cupcakes. __________________

10-17-2005, 09:32 PM	#44
Joesho want to get in shape Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: on the lake Posts: 12,329	NATS has been very helpful and very responsive to us. John is a pleasure to talk to . I think you raised some valid questions SOS and I think John answeared to the satisfaction of most. Kudos to both of you and thanks for a good thread here it was refreshing to see good exchanges without all the bullshit. __________________ Got any domains to sell? I proudly host all my stuff at www.rackco.com

10-17-2005, 09:36 PM	#45
Argoz Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Qc Posts: 3,006	Interesting __________________ rssEVOLUTION : Produce a FULL website with ANY RSS feed(s) in seconds. contentSOLUTION : Allowing you to automatically grab articles from article directories, import as many text files as you want at once, grab ANY content from ANY RSS feed, and scrape search engines, instantly.

10-17-2005, 09:40 PM	#46
Donny As you wish... Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 13,754	I have to admit to you that concern about stealing member information is the reason I am not using NATS. I fully intended to sign up for NATS in Phoenix this year but two former users told me their concerns, which caused me to change my mind. The main concern was that it seemed John's programs were growing at an extraordinary rate and "how could that happen without stealing information?". Please note: I am not saying this is the case. I am saying these are the concerns that were expressed to me and the reasons I changed my mind. I wish i didn't have those concerns because I would love to use their software. Or MPA3's software. Alas, I have sat back and used neither.

10-17-2005, 09:48 PM	#47
Tat2Jr Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Sunny California Posts: 4,882	The only beef I have with NATS is that they always have their parties in NJ instead of CA. __________________ NICHE MONEY >> Ass Worship • Panties • Solo Teen • Pantyhose Serving up exclusive fetish sites since 1997!

10-17-2005, 10:00 PM	#49
CybermedAndy Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Vancouver Posts: 4,170	This thread is refreshing to say the least. Nice to see things discussed openly and intelligently and opinions offered on a popular program like NATS. Threads like this should be offered about all different programs and software- likes and dislikes, advantages and disadvantages, etc. This sort of dicussion you should be done with different programs regularily, like Sleazy's interviews. __________________ Add some upsell items to your pages here!