Very true. What some people fail to see is creating porn is not about pointing a camera at a naked girl or couple. Some buy content on price and convenience ignoring the reason their clients are buying totally, which is how much porn is in the shoot.

Eva has a gift at shooting porn, she will "Seduce" the model while shooting her. This is normal for a porn shooter. Our job is to get a model who has little to no intentions of fucking anyone to look like he/she would fuck the world for a pizza.

Tough job sometimes, but when you visit a porn convention and see the pornographers you usually see them with models hung on their arms. The reason is more than the money we pay them, they like us and this comes through in the shoot. Eva is 27 years younger than me and happy after 8 years together, so I reckon I still have it as well. :1orglaugh

And this carries through to the shoot, so when the consumer looks at the model he sees the relationship between the model and the shooter. Does she/he look like they're waiting for a bus, looking for the exit or about to fuck someone to a standstill?

This is tough to achieve if your trying to shoot a set as a race, on a limited budget or lack the basic skills and talent. But this is what all our customers are paying for. Admittedly the harder you abuse the model the less you need this rapour which might explain why so much on the Net is Extreme. But the big market is in the "Sex is fun, enjoyable and I'm ready forYOU" niche.

The surfer is usually jerking off to the fantasy that the models will let him join in or doing it for them. Deleiver that fantasy and watch your numbers grow. Don't and then build the traffic side to earn a living, do both and then you are on your way to making money, even in todays over crowded Adult Net. Becasue the crowds are at the other end.

We all sell content, FULL STOP.

Think of increasing your conversion by 10%
Your retention by 10%
Your traffic by 10%
Your affiliates by 10%

How much is that worth?

All because the surfer sees something that turns him on.

Problem is if the content is not the best that can be obtained the tour ratios will suck. No one will join becasue the girl loos pissed off yet is in the sites branded T Shirt.

Yes cross sales are another good way of making money and for some a good solution. But is there more profit in keeping them on your site and happy rather than sending them some where else? We have other sites banners inside our site and believe strongly in this sale, but would rather keep them for longer on ours. Running at an average of 3 months on the paysite but I would love to get that higher.

Obviosly if you have it exclusive you own the content, Adult.com have gone into the DVD market and will make money from their exclusive content that way.

Yeah its just the way it seems to have gone really. I have no doubt there will be an evening up as with any fluctuation, sufer will get bored of Tshirts etc and b2b supply will change to focus on getting them in.
Us consumer market is quite fickle and will jump on new niches quite eagerly.

DVD market is one of many channels peopel can go in with exlcusives and im surprised more dont focus on high budgets for shooting and convert web shot episodes to DVD release (as well as PPV/VOD, Phone etc).

I believe as more and more people offer quality porn, and that does always not mean the quality of the photography, others will have to improve or drop back. Improvement is usually forced on suppliers by one stepping up the pace and the rest following. Then another jumps in front and the cycle starts again.

This is a young delivery method of porn and we have to look back at what was being delivered to members as little as 5 years ago. The changes are enormous in the level of professionalism, delivery and content. It will continue and those who think cutting the budget on content will soon learn otherwise.

generally i agree but its still possible to get moderate supply of quality for a moderate price with sufficient contact esepcially owners of sites doing well on their own rights who shoot their own.

It also has to do with this. I have hundreds of DVD producers wanting to give me their DVDs for sale on Content Palace. Most don't even care what I sell it for as long as it sells. Most of it has never ever been offered to webmasters, has not been seen by surfers and is good as exclusive for the time being. At around 70 dollars per New Release DVD Webmasters can buy this stuff all day long and never have to think about paying for exclusive material.

http://www.contentpalace.com/images/logo.jpg

creative spam

This was an interesting read

Agreed, some of the prices being offered for exclusive is a joke. We're currently giving content to magazines for "Advitorial" on our paysite. They show the set, talk up the video and I get the joins.

Seems an avenue many sponsors have not thought of.

Not really creative spam - I am trying to make a point. But at my age making points is pointless. I let the younger people do that.

You do bring up another good point in the Exculsive and Non debate.

A brand new set will not be seen by anyone and in it's first three months at proper prices is never going to be saturated. So we are selling DVD quality hardcore scenes for $60. compare this with an exclusive of less quality at $2,000.

Non exclusive you can deliver 33 scenes, unseen by members. Exclusive you deliver 1. I wonder which method retains the best?

This is obviously assuming your site niche will fit what is being offered.

I shoot everything for my site... but it sure would be nice to have a source to go to for content sometimes.

My paysite is so "niche" that suitable stock doesn't really exist for me...

Simply from a time management standpoint, having an exclusive content shooter in some European country might be attractive as long as costs aren't prohibitive.

It can be quite time consuming just dealing with models, planning shoots, etc... let alone marketing and promotion.

"Content is king" was the key phrase years ago, and it's still true.

DVD content is great too (except for stills/design of course)

I still say you can bribe shooter/site owner to run you off a few cheaky handjob sets and they serve their purpose well -especially for promo sets :)

Custom video content is cheap because the "shooters".....

- Have next to zero equipment costs. They use a handy cam and use the on-board omni mic so you can hear the camera guy talking/breathing louder than the model. I use mics that cost more then the cameras these guys use and the difference in sound is night and day.

-Many of them use hot lights during the video shoot and the models have to suffer through it. Not exactly a recipe for getting a great scene from your talent. I use natural light with fill from daylight temp Kino Flos to keep the talent cool as cucumbers. Kinos are expensive and you can build your own to save money but of course you have to factor in your time spent building them and tracking down high CRI rated bulbs. ( I am certainly not saying hot lights are cheap. Obviously HMIs are expensive and hot lights in general are fine in a cold environment or if the A/C is turned on)

- Don't hire a make-up artist (or use a cheap one). I always have a good make- up artist and pay them extra to stay the entire scene during my lesbian shoots to constantly touch up the models during their breaks from pussy licking.

- Don't have any location expenses because they just use a room in their house or office which has a ugly couch (or worse - a bed) pushed up against a white wall. I use real locations that look great on camera and also bring in props.

-They hire a video editor and pay them an low hourly rate and of course the end product suffers.

-They crank out scenes like McDonalds cranks out hamburgers. Every scene is the same "What is your name" "How old are you", "Where are you from", etc.

-Don't spend time actually "casting". They just throw any 2 available people together without any concern for how hot the scene will be. When I shoot lesbian scenes I work hard in pairing the girls with other girls they REALLY WANT to fuck. The same goes for my b/g scenes but to a lesser extent.

Now, I am not criticizing content guys for shooting scenes like they do. In fact I envy them. I am seriously thinking about shooting scenes the same way because I would make a TON of money compared to taking my time in trying to create something that is above average in quality.

It seems in the content biz that professional photography is valued greatly but professionally shot video is rare and not expected. Most of the video guys just use handy cams set on "full auto" mode and of course it turns out looking and sounding like a home video.

I have had a recent client tell me "This is the best custom content I have ever bought". You don't get feedback like this from using the McDonalds philosophy. But of course you have to respect the fact that a good restaurant located next to a McDonalds makes less money even though their product is much better.

I am seeing a change in the attitude of some program owners recently. I guess because this biz has become more competitive the program owners are taking more of an interest in higher quality video content. Paying an extra $400 -$500 a scene to get a product that is noticeably better than what you competition has might just pay off great dividends in the future. :2 cents:

It can be shot, the discussion is usually around how much you will pay and how much the shooter wants.

Hit me up on ICQ if you want to take this further.

I love you. :thumbsup

This is how I shoot magazines sets, but then they make $3,000 to $6,000 a scene and we know doing it MacDonalds style will make $0000.

Working for the Internet is slightly different, it's a fine balance between cost and return.

You love me? You REALLY love me?

Ok, I will move over there and you can just put me to work while you take a break and enjoy he good life. How about that? :upsidedow

Seems good to me.

One of the biggest problems with having a paysite is competition from other sites and sponsors. Every day a new sponsor seems to pop up and try their luck, few succeed and fewer dent the big guys. But some take some business and the over all effect hurts the big guys.

But the entry level bar is slowly being raised and it's getting harder and harder to start a site. Imagine an Adult Internet that delivered content on a quality level that newbies could not compete with. The market would be dominated by a very few, so I suppose keeping the level of content low helps many.

The magazine biz is the other way around, shooters are retiring, new guys can't shoot to the level or fund the production and our sales are soaring. Because magazines will not publish 90% of what they get sent the elite suppliers are left to cash in.

Too cold now though, I will wait till spring time. :1orglaugh

This thread makes me laugh...

Almost everybody has two stories, about his shootings and about "some other shooters"... Of course that "other shooters" have bad equipment, don't have assistants (makeup or any other), they shoot in small rooms, etc, etc...
C'mon ppl, use the names or I will start to think that those stories are from experience, not from observing... j/k

I shoot only custom/exclusive. I don't make my prices regarding to prices of other shooters, I make my prices regarding to my expenses. I can't say am I "cheap" or "expensive", but I'm sure that my content is "niiiceee"...

http://www.mikescontent.com/inside/200509/hard002.jpg

Still, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm actually bad shooter...

Paul, Please can you Bcc those numbers to me as well ;)


And something "off topic"... When I see sometimes how ugly chicks some of shooters post here with comments like "Hot next-door model ? (name goes here)", or something similar and 100's of ass licking comments (Wow, Yeah, I would hit that whole day, etc) in those threads, I'm thinking that this board needs some serious "Fake nick" purgatory (yes, I know, no names, lol)...

OK, I'm off to shoot, see ya' later guys!

Of course there are always two sides to a debate and in this one there are many more.

But the truth is non exclusive would make the shooters a lot more money than exclusive if non exclusive is saturated as they claim.

As for selling to magazines well I doubt if you can, it's a tough field and the rejection rate is 90%. Reasons to reject your set if the rest were like that would be as follows, to plain for standard, the setting is not good enough, thew girl is not teen to fit that market either, not enough energy for amateur, the guy on the left has a belly and spots, the curtains and cushion are screaming Eastern Europe.

You would also have to shoot it on film as most of the majors still only accept film, can you light for film?

These sold to magazines on film.

2001

1746

1771

Slightly different market to selling on the Internet. Not saying you're not a bad shooter just that you need to do things differently to get the magazines business.

But if you want their business buy a magazine, shoot some sets similar to what they publish and the telephone numbers are in the magazines. They will speak to you, but you have to have something to submit to them.

I price according to the sets value, not according to my costs.

DAMN, Mr_No, that's a hot pic. :thumbsup

HAHAHAHA... ROTFLMAO
I'm sorry man, but this is too much funny...

My picture doesn't have energy? Shooted on cheap set?
Btw, pic which I posted is not retouched, just resized and compressed...

Don't get me wrong, but...
You sold this set - 2001 - for 1000's of dollars to some magazine?
Shooted on cheapest piece of furniture which you can find in Ikea, with $10 cassette player in background (just from your sample image I see that, plus that picture is so badly framed you have 30% of that picture empty on right side, plus it is overexposed, etc. I'm not even going to talk about shadows, or skin color, and looks of male model)...
I'm sorry, if that is what I need to achieve in order to publish I would need to give camera to my hmm, let?s say, makeup artist... On the other hand, for that amount of money, I?m willing to learn, so tomorrow, I will ask her for first lesson. I will keep you guys informed about my progress! j/k

That you said, I sold this set 20 years ago, I would say, yeah that is it... But you still shoot like 20 years ago, no difference... Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that "today's" market is very different than market 20 years ago...

:2 cents:

Thanks man! I'm happy to hear that you see something which Paul can't see... :thumbsup

I know your photos are very good. I have been on your site before and checked it out. I don't think I have ever seen any video from you though.

Must be nice working with those Hungarian models. They are a completely different breed :thumbsup

I not been shooting all to long, but I do know coordinating shit is alot of work and the drama behind the scenes plays a factor in the effort.
It makes me wonder what was easier design webmastery or content production.

None the less since we starting to post pics now...

http://www.ialien.com/kaylademo/promo/sam13.jpg

I am not sure what is better at this point exclusive shoots or none exclusive, so I will do both till I am sure.

Nice shot! I love those Hungarian babes!

Cheers

I got out of the exclusive game a long time ago. If I don't make a grand at least per shoot then what a waste of time and finding buyers of exclusive for that price is not so easy or never has been..

Now I sell DVDs from big name producers for $79.00, $69.00 and even $59.00 each and everybody is happy. Me, the producer and the webmasters. I think that exclusives should get more expensive in the future as the number of guys who can do them will be less..

For now my deal with the http://www.contentpalace.com site is going great. I could not be happier.

Hey buddy, Thanks! Unfortunatelly (or contrary), last six months I didn't have time to put new previews (or models) on my site, so everything which you can see there is more or less "old" work, but I have in plan to redesign whole site and I hope in couple of weeks that task will be done!

Yeah, working with Hungarian girls is nice, though girl in the pic which I posted is Czech model, and for hard, they are maybe even better ;)

One of my clients (for which I shoot only solo and masturbation vids) thinks that I make better videos than photos, so you tell me, lol...

About my "hard" video work, I still can't reveal for who I shoot, because I shoot exclusive for them atm, and we have that agreement (and I'm happy with that, of course)...

One more time, Thanks! :thumbsup

150 :glugglug

i beat woj :winkwink:

Hehehe! Thanks Max!
(You don't recognize girl from the pic? Yes, I shoot only in Budapest, because I'm too lazy to move, but girl from pic is Czech...)

One more time, Thanks :thumbsup

Thank you for the compliments.

Teens is strongest with the 40 to 50 year old readers. So maybe that's why we do so well at it.

Sorry mate but I was judging you as magazine editors will judge the set. The biggest problem is the girl, she's cute but not teen. She does not look like a stunner and the set does not look good enough for main stream magazines. so maybe it would get into the amateur type mags. well go and try and see how hard it is to sell to them.

Magazines reject over 90% of the content sent, well in truth 80% is not even looked at. They get flooded with sets and pick out the best. This is simply due to the money they pay a good boy-girl set will return $5,000 easily and $10,000 is very possible.

To compete in that sector you need to be on the top of your game.

Nice girl and cute teen. Next time get her to open her lips slightly, it improves the look.

Exclusive v non exclusive?

Depends how good you are at shooting to please the surfer and marketing. Exclusive solo girl sets+videos sell for $300 to $400 a time. non excluive 10 times at $50 will return $500. Not hard to sell a good set+video 10 times, in fact good will sell 20 times.

I'm out of it as well.

I went to the Amsterdam show with the intentions of picking up some exclusive deals that our two assistants could shoot. but they want me and Eva to shoot it at prices that we will not work for.

I got the over all impression that sponsors want top quality at bargain basement prices.

One of the arguments put to me was that on their present traffic, conversion and retention they could not afford us. I took a look at their site and if they think our content will perform as well as what they are buying they're in the wrong business.

Private are top of the video market, Score top of the big tit game and Barely Legal top of the teens market. All are top payers for cotnet, do you see a link? Swimming at the bottom of the barrel is crowded and tough.

so if you guy have tip to give to someone starting making shoot.

wtf we need do, try save any pennies and do it cheap as hell
or live large and making the more professional we can

i just cant get something out of it how come i have friend who model get pay avrage 400$- 500$ (cdn) to photoshot when u say u cant realy sell exclusive shoot over something like 300$ whitout even take in consideration the staff and the guy who gonna psd it at the end

just wondering ???

wow this topic is still up. Guys i shoot eclcusive content becuase it pays either the whole day or most of it when someone orders..Also I am getting 50% at least..Right so i have no risk..If customer can not pay the balance i keep content. Also shoot some extra sets to sell non exclusive and use for my sites. But I agree exclusive content is cheap..Perfect10 paid me 6k per shoot..US mags 2000-3000, and adult webmasters 750 for 5 sets...Lol....Big difference...

Think about it from the surfers POV. 1,000s and 1,000s of sites all claiming to have what he needs.

The guy spending $30 a month is no newbie to porn, he's bought it before or viewing it for years. He knows what works for him.

He hits loads of sites put up in the hope of converting on the basis of build the traffic to get the members. He then he hits a site put up by someone who knows and cares about his niche and maybe even loves it as much as he does.

Which one do you think he spends his money on?

Our success is not based on me and Eva shooting as if it's a race or to get it in at a price, we both love and enjoy what we shoot. We don't shoot on the basis of getting it done for a price, we send the girl home if she's wrong, we dump bad content into Bargain Basement. We take pride in what we do.

Peace
Yes it still up and a lot of interesting info has come out. The way you shoot makes sense, the client pays the costs and you get to keep some for yourself. :thumbsup

But the original question has rarely really been answered.

If non exclusive content is saturated why are guys shooting it for so little? Would seem if non exclusive was saturated there is little gamble in shooting and selling a set that needs to sell 5-6 times to return more money than what is being offered for exclusive by many.

I knew the answer when I started the thread.

Non exclusive is not saturated. It's a myth built by people who bought blow outs and deals on old crap. Because if non exclusive was saturated the exclusive shooters would not be giving it away.