good point, if you remember everyone was going gaga over that girl in that badly lit webcam video

Paul,

I think alot of the market prices has to do with member retention lengths and *very* few websites have content that will effect/maintain those lengths and those sites produce the majority of their own content because of the extreme costs it would involve to outsource it. Mac & Bumble and Als Scan are two examples of this.

For the rest of the of the paysites out there, most are going to retain members for 2 months and might squeeze out a 3rd month if they have a hellacious live/recorded feed area so it comes down to having a shitload of content so that it takes the surfer 2-3 months to go through it all.

Your stuff is good - nobody denies that - but if I can get 2 to 3 times the content for the same price you charge, sombody else is going to get my $'s. True, it won't be as good as you could produce, but I don't need it to be.

The average surfer could care less if you use a superdooper high shutterspeed laser rangefinder camera with whatchamacallit filtering or monochrome film with lighting that brings out the models eyes....

Are the girls pretty? Is it in focus? Are there lots of money shots?
Pull out dick and whack off to pictures then.........

You'll be a hell of a salesman if you can persuade people to pay lawyer rates in a world where they only need a paralegal.

That's a good price for sure.

Okay so this is a marketing thread not an economics class and I'm sure you realize that price spreads are almost always pyramidal as a reflection of market demands. And since selling price is only one component of running a successful business, a seller can aim at whatever price level suits him.

That said, most sellers end up aiming for average prices because in the long term it is much harder to operate at either extreme. You have to run a business far more tightly if you sell on low price and you are always vulnerable to anyone with deeper pockets who wants to buy market share. Price yourself at the top end and your buyers are likely to be far more fickle, since their perception of value usually includes many more intangibles than concern customers for mid-range products and services.

Do not tell anyone, but Max Candy works for Big Macs, $1.99 a day

I want my exclusives to be made amateur-style because I can really sell amateur 20 times better than I can sell high-quality professional stuff. If a surfer really wants super high quality he will simply buy DVDs and watch them on 52" wide-screen plasma TV surely wouldn't be signing up for paysites. Some of those shooting amateur ofcourse do sell more than 20 times and do make more money while others don't cause they don't market their products well. also there are number of others who do make good money marketing their products offline only then ofcourse there are many others who are just too fucking amateurs don't make shit kinda like someone reading half of this post decides to pick up a $50 camera from the flea market and start shooting local whores with it :helpme

And you also get me scratching my head when you bash maxcandy. Umm.. I thought his stuff (photo content ie. haven't seen his vid content) was good and if I thought his stuff was good being in this biz for a while I highly doubt surfers with 1 hand on their dicks would think otherwise :winkwink:

MC, if you'd work for a less calories McChicken instead you are hired :1orglaugh

Amateur does sell 20 times more than pro content.

There is alot more amateur content available and drawing down the numbers proves Amateur Content is more profitable as a niche over all however it is over saturated ( IE Anyone can produce it for less and cheaper and more of it ) however bottom line for an individual amateur producer tends to be less since for every pro producer he may have 10 competitors in a Pro niche, while in Amateur the producer will have possibly 50+ in a amateur niche.

Good post and very good points.

I disagree with the conclusion about people will not pay ar stay around for better porn, simply on the examples you give, Alsscan and sites in this area seem to retain better. Including our site.

But you have not answered my intitial question in fact you have backed it up.

If it sells so well why are exclusive shooters selling it so cheap?

Another good post. However who is the final judge, the paysite owner or the member?

:batman .

:smokin .50

I like to use young sex slaves in south east Asia... they work cheap so I can sell cheap.

Max is boasting again Mac Dees don't pay him so well. :1orglaugh

I know why Max sells exclusive, his life style would clash with running a content store, his content is good enough, he's good enough, just to interested in diving to work 50 weeks of the year.

RESPECT. :thumbsup

Paul and Eva.... That sure sounds like names of "shooters" in South London decades ago.

Ain't by any chance you Paul?? :winkwink:

excellent thread

Pornography has little to nothing to do with the quality of the photography.

Is everyone clear on that?

A person buying porn is looking to fantasise and associate himself in the scenario presented. He's not interested in the quality of the photgraphy. This said if "Amateur" is shot to the standard of "Playboy" or visa versa neither will sell.

The images need to be BELIEVABLE. A beautiful but bored model shot to perfection will not sell, an "Amateur" model shot average in an amateur setting, with a look on her face that shows she is looking to go home will also fail.

The fantasy is that the model will fuck the viewer, that the sex they are having is real, that they know they are being watched and inviting the viewer to see and join in.

Shooting 10 sets in a day makes the creation of this fantasy difficult. Eva now shoots half days only for us, why? Because after 4 hours she is running out of steam, the model is running out of steam and the work is going down in PORN FANTASY QUALITY. The best selling work either of us have shot involved girls we were intimate with, the fantasy was the reality. The model was sleeping with us.

So please stop saying I think the quality of photography makes any difference to the porn value of a scene. What makes the real difference is the relationship between the models and shooter.

No.

I used to work out of East London, Ilford to be precise.

I started in 1977 with my first wife and worked under the name of Paula Markham. Then opened a video mail order company Astral Blue, under the name of Paul Markham.

I knew most of the London shooters from those times and can't remember anyone called Paul & Eva.

They atre not going gaga over the fact she was badly lit.

They are going gaga over the fantasy she presenting.

Why is Custom Exclusive content so cheap?

cuz your tryin' to offload it maybe?

I think I've made my thoughts on Max clear. Runs a good crea and produces good work. His stuff would sell for a lot more $$$ non exclusive than it does exclusive. He chooses to shoot exclusive for other reasons.

VERY VERY TRUE.

The Amateur, MILF, girl next door type niches are always going to be popular at the bottom end of the porn price scale. Simply because someone earning $25,000 or less a year can associate more with this than they can with a super model getting out of a Rolls Royce in front of a mansion.

But as you point out these niches are over saturated and the buyer has a lot of people to buy from. So the quality of the porn experience is what will make the difference. ATK throw countless numbers of sets/videos at the surfer and if you have their budget this can work for you.

However if you don't adopting their price level and delivering 1-3 scenes a week will not impress as much.

Small world! I recognise the name Paula Markham :)

The Paul I knew was a photographer and his wife use to shoot a load of stuff and they kept moving homes to get new sets :-) Think they were mainly around the Balham area at that time.

It's obvious that most of them are getting the maximum they can for the work they are doing. Which leads to even more questions.

Why in a market, (non-exclusive is saturated!!) they can't get more for their work?

Mutt has said some are happy to work for $500 a day shooting. AMA Joe thinks $2,000 for a boy girl set is good. There is far more money to be made selling non exclusive and not saturating content. The mobile phone market is taking off and consuming content as fast as it can get it.

I broker for a shooter who I know is with 4 other brokers, he earns a bit more than $150 a set. :winkwink:

Many here think content is a level playing field, that there is little difference between 1 shooter and another, many buy firstly on price.

So why does one site convert better than the next, all in the same niche and style?

Here I convert 1:500, not great but not bad!!

Here one of the sites converts and retains 100% better than the next best, on the same number of clicks.

So if the over riding reason for buying porn is the price why is this so?

Paul, because there is always a decent photographer who is hard up and will take less. If every top photographer decided to raise the prices, there will always be an up and comer with talent that will undercut the guys and earn the business since profit margins is key for all. After awhile the top guys see their orders decrease and have to adjust. In a free market society its all about the the competition can do to force your hand. Look at AOL for example, they were slow to adapt and they lost a stranglehold one something they dominated. Slow to drop dialup prices that others were willing to charge. Brought in broadband to slow and to high of a price point and it was it.

Now why more photographers don't also shoot extra sets of girls to use for non-exclusive rights in addition to the exclusive sets they do is another question. But like Mutt said, the top buyers like Kim and Louis make sure their top guys are not doing this so that the content and girls themselves dont get saturated. Not much good to have 10 exclusive sets of a girl if there is another 20 sets of the same girl on a nonexclusive basis with just a different t-shirt on.

Round and Round. Supply and Demand as you put it. Pure competition in a free market.

Very good points and would apply 100% if we were selling Heinz bake beans. However we are selling porn.

Is one designer the same as another?
Can an affiliate come into the business and send the same quality traffic as an affiliate working 3 years.
Is a programmer fresh out of college going to be the same as one who has been working 3 years?
Is a pornographer who has just started going to produce content that converts as well as Eva, Max, Aaron or me?

I don't think so and neither does the surfer. Alsscan come to Europe to shoot, they have top quality equipment, they stay in the best hotels, they shoot the best girls, they pay top money and they have a gift at what they do. They spend a lot more than $150 a set. THEY CONVERT BETTER AND RETAIN BETTER THAN MOST OF THE SITES.

Alsscan are not the only ones to be doing this, many are finding that in a competetive market traffic is only half the answer, conversion is the half.

Porn production is not a level playing field that some noobie can pick up a camera and produce the members that someone shooting 5 years can do. You insult us by assuming it is, if I was to say a noobie could compete qwith you in your field what would you reply? :winkwink:

And lastly if this good photographer was a good pornographer he would not be hard up, unless he had some expensive habits. :1orglaugh

well, I can only agree with this :)

Paul the biz is what it is. Why spend so much time and money on one site producing the best quality content you can, when you can make more money putting out multiple sites with medicore content for the same money.

i simply feel good the way we work...

you want some good looking non-exclusive content? www.amazingcontent.com

you want good, but affordable exclusive content? Hit me up...

but attention: I don't said "cheap" :winkwink:


here're some samples from our last update:

http://www.amazingcontent.com/pubpre...dates_sep2.jpg


and the rest has been discussed too many times already - it's an open market, everyone can try his luck at any price :2 cents:

Is this set for sale?

Man thats such a hot pic.

If its for sale email me at [email protected] or can you tell me what site the sets are on.

Exclusive content is very over rated in my opinion. I have converted with similiar results for both exclusive and non exclusive sites. I would never pay 2k for an exclusive set. I don't get care how good the shooter is. The bottom line, it is just porn and it all comes down to one thing. Your ability to market that porn.

No offense but 99% of the shooters out there are all in love with themselves and think they are the next Paul Strand. I'll bet most of these self proclaimed photographers don't even know who Paul Strand is.

What works for you does not work for all. There are many multi millionaires with one site.

What worked yesterday does not work tomorrow.

The ability to find quality content is not as easy as one would think. Most here think it's about photography. something it has little to nothing to do with.

I agree with you about exclusive, IMO it's something that impresses noobie affilaites more than members.

Who cares who Paul Strand is, he's a photographer and I doubt if his porn could hold a candle to mine. I could out porn shoot him in an instant.

Like I said the ability to recognise what we sell is not so apparent.

We are pornographers not photographers.

I'm so sick of having this discussion.....Paul don't you have anything else to do/talk about?

A photographer can take $150 guaranteed for a set and make $500/day shooting exclusive for sites like ATK....or they can "maybe" make $300-$500 a set selling it for $30 a pop out of a content store or with a broker.

But to do that they have to pay the model out of their own pocket and then hope to recoup that investment later.
It's kind of like pushing a pay per sign up program versus a recurring program.
I can get $25 today guaranteed, or I can "maybe" make $50+ from a sale if I'm willing to wait a few months and take the risk. I could also only make $2 from a sale with this method.

Most webmasters choose pay per signup, and I'm guessing the same logic is why most of the web photographers shoot exclusive for $150 a set.

:2 cents:

I think you get the best of both worlds with your setup.
You have very reasonable prices for exclusive work, and produce good quality stuff. Yet every time you did an exclusive shoot for me you always shot a few extra sets of the girl to put in your store and sell for $40 a pop.

That's a good business plan IMHO.

sssssshhhhhhh!!!!!

:error :winkwink:

I think for Charly he considers it to be not a risk he is simply confident that he'll make the money like I'm confident I can make more with certain recurring proggies over any PPS. But your logic is right it's simply like webmasters preferring PPS over recurs. Either way, bottomline, us the webmasters will always go for shooters who'll save us more yet provide us with what we need. our needs are different also so we choose what works for us and the shooters choose what work for them. there are more than one way to make money in this industry and we all choose different ways.

when you mean you won't pay 2k a set you mean b/g hardcore videos also?

So it seems that selling a set 10 to 15 times is now a maybe.

At last someone came up with the real reason. Non exclusive is not as saturated as some would have you believe.

Because 15 sales, over it's lifetime, does not saturate a set on a medium with 1000s of outlets.

Wondered how long it would take before someone came up with the answer. Of course I knew it already. Just wanted to get people talking about content, exclusive or non exclusive.

We choose more than one way to make money and that our key.

Internet
Mobile Phone
Magazines
DVDs

All from the same scene. If we were shooting just for one it would not be as profitable.

MaDalton has it the right way, but I doubt if he tags a few sets on the end of the day exclusive. His work is too good and as I said after 5 hours or 4 scenes a model and shooter are tired and producing poor work. Much better to get the girl back fresh. And as a good content provider he can afford to do that.