The ability to market is always a strong element in selling anything. But when you're selling porn the ability to select the right product to market is more important. Porn consumers are mostly repeat buyers and know what they are buying.

The free surfer will jerk off to most things close to his heart.
The guy spending $30 a month will pay for what he NEEDS.

good new ideas will always make big money, but old ones almost always become cheaper and cheaper

I do work cheap, although cheap is very relative:

http://www.maxcandy.com/Portfolio/Ha...candy_h_45.jpg

sorry. not for sale, it was a custom job, cost about 10,000USD to create with a hour of my blowing video!

you mean you get paid in blowjobs? :1orglaugh

Been nothing new in porn for hundres of years, only style and delivery changes.

yes, is the any other way??

Are you counting your dirty cave drawings again?

sure - i let them iron my shirts and clean my toilet... :winkwink:

damn, i felt i was missing out, the girls make me do that for them

:1orglaugh

and btw - that was not a joke - honestly :)

one of our models used to clean our office and our apartments for some extra money :pimp

man, you the man, man.

loads of shooters do custom cheap for cashflow reasons
get cash to pay the model and shoot a couple extra scenes on the same day for your site or brokering. Same for semi exclusive, minimise outlay and maximise returns from multiple sources later.

Very interesting thread - I need to bookmark and read again

bump for a good thread

Interesting:

"loads of shooters do custom cheap for cashflow reasons
get cash to pay the model and shoot a couple extra scenes on the same day for your site or brokering. Same for semi exclusive, minimise outlay and maximise returns from multiple sources later."

I do not do this. It is not a practice of mine. I know it was/is an option however I believe my clients deserve the complete exclusivity of the girl and the set, without me going for some extra sets to sell non exclusive.

To me Exclusive is exclusive, no cutting corners.

But to each his own.

Well it depends on context completely and context usually relects the price, either is both valid business and will rpobably getteh surfer off (unless total shit).

It doesnt matter if "totally exclusive for some scenes as long as its identifyable as your own.

wow, what an awesome thread. I'd like to thank the content producers for weghing in on this thread, it's given me the insight that I always look for when I come to gfy, but rarely find.

Look around - a while back, people started bitching about tgps and shitfuck sites doing the fusker thing. The focus and complaint of everyone. including me, was that free porn was killing our pocketbooks and it needed to be stopped! Well...

TGP's are still up and rocking, but they aren't doing as good as they used to. Fuskers, despite the billions of threads on htaccess etc, are still up. And like predicted, we are all making less because of the free porn. Now I read this thread form in my mind a completely different perspective - the producers viewpoint. You guys are frustrated because content is being given away when it should be more valuable, the work that you do is becoming worth less and less every day. You complain and rationalize and reason, but it makes no difference - you're headed down that road, and there are no off ramps.

I feel your pain, but at the same time I rejoice, because this is just like any other party. The mood shifts, people pass out and new people arrive - and the ones that realy come out on top are the ones that can see change coming and stay sober enough to bring that hot chick a drink at the opportune moment.

Cheers my friends, here's to evolution. May the strong survive.

i dont know doesnt make sense to me

Here's my 2 cents.....to the original question...all the other points not withstanding.

One important factor that doesn't seem to be mentioned here is the EXCLUSIVITY OF THE TALENT/MODEL (or lack of).

These days there are more and more shooters chasing around fewer HIGH QUALITY models.

RE: Exclusive material:

I've always contended that if a producer has a new exclusive model, he has a jump on the other producers and is better set to NAME THE PRICE (to some degree) If a site/magazine REALLY likes the model and no other content provider or photographer is submitting her - they are more inclined to buy and possibly pay a premium.

This is a generalization of course but basically now everybody and their Mothers shoot content so buyers have a huge variety of sources.


- Matt

100 monkees shooting exclusive for you. :1orglaugh

good thread

The model costs $500, location if you do not have one $200, what other costs are there?

Your posts tells me they are working on a shoestring budget if they can't fund a shooting day for $700.

Good post. But to make it really exclusive in the eyes of the consumer it means, new girl, new location, new theme. Otherwiae it's just another girl getting naked or fucked in front of the camera.

Especially if it's in the same room, style and underwear of the girl before.


No surfer ever got a hard on because the content was exclusive, he got a hard on because it was good stuff he had not seen before. Impossible to do at $150 a set or video, then it's conveyor belt crap and expect the surfer to respond to as such.

If Paul Markham makes ANOTHER " Exclusive Content " thread, lets beat his ass. He's been making this same thread for 10 years now.

Good point and for many this is the problem. They are competing at the bottom of the barrel and suffer from the amount of free porn available.

However if you think a guy can pick up a camera, find a model and within a few weeks do what I can then you're in the wrong business. Look at the sites rising to the top and ask yourself why. Are they getting better traffic numbers, conversion ratios and retention because they are cutting the costs of the one thing they actully sell or are they doing the opposite of 90% of the Adult Internet?

I was recently asked to shoot content like Perfect Gonzo, when the guy heard the price he told me he could get it cheaper elsewhere. I told him to go and get it then, he has not and never will at the price he's willing to pay. Which is why those at the top of the tree are in a good place.

Lensman said at the Amsterdam seminar on content that the big porn producers are not top on the traffic figures, I wonder if Private retain for an average of two months?

Another very good point.

Just before we went on holiday we found a cute model who we tried to book exclusive for a client, the models boyfriend was not having it and wanted her working for everyonne.

The original deal was we shoot her for the site exclusive and shoot the magazine content afterwards. But with her working with anyone we shot her first for our magazine client. In two days we shot 6 sets worth $3,000 each. Bit different from shooting sets at $500 a time.

A good ecxlusive model on the content store is worth $1,000 a set/video. So why do the custom guys shoot for $300 a set/video?

Good point and as I pointed out if you're selling content that any one can shoot expect to compete with the rest at the bottom of the barrel.

Not that our content is so great either, but if we're working on a set that returns $3,000 we do a little more than one that returns $1,000.

I can take the beatings. :1orglaugh

My post doesnt say they are working on a shoestring, it says it is possible that people apply the above business practice/model to suit they cashflow and business structure. 700 a day sounds a reasonable amount of money to spend on a days shoot inc location, perhaps er'ing on the high side for model but then im not counting.

I never said you said it, I said it tells me, slight but major difference. A solo girl set+video will make easily $500 non exclusive and probably averages $700. seems to me if you don't have the ability to double your return for the investment of $700 you are a bit tight for cash.

The idea of this thread was to start a debate, which it did :) , on why do some sell sets at around $150 and sets+videos at $300 when "non-exclusive content is saturated.

The two things simply do not tally and make sense. To me the explanations are as follows.

(A) Unable to get a credit card processing account. Does not sound so good.
(B) Unable to do the marketing that is required, but able to market Custom shooting?
(C) Have extra capacity on the shooting side that non exclusive will not take up. Very plausable.
(D) Their content does not sell non-exclusive. This I know for a fact after buying some and trying to resell it.
(E) Non exclusive is not as saturated as some would have us believe. Probably the real reason as I know how many times a good set or video sells and this is not enought to saturate a set.

I'm willing to listen to anyone who has a better explanation.

sounds like
you use really cheap locations
+ you don't use assistant
+ you don't use stylist
+ you don't care about food , fuel for moving to location etc ect

My locations, assistant, stylist, food, transport comes out of fixed costs not the actual shoot costs so I did not include them.

$700 was for those taking $1500 for a days work and paying the models.

Still does not answer the question, why sell sets for $1500 when non exclusive is saturated and would make so much more?

You know the one side we have not heard from in this debate is from the paysite owners who claim non exclusive is saturated. Then pay so low for such a fantastic product, well they say it's fantastic. :1orglaugh

Yeah for sure many people shooting are tight for cash but ive still had good content for what i would regard as inexpensive. There willalways be saturation of poor content though purely as there will always be dreams/and/or short of cash who want to spent their days taking pics of chicks. With respect to the above points...
A) Yes usually a bad sign but country of origin can play a role
B) Possible, as building a well frequented store that will sell 10+ copies of set could be a pain in the ass for 1 guy shooting for him and a few other people.
C) Yep very
D) Yep for a store to sell a decent number of a set it will have to be of high quality and broader apeal.
E) Depends what you mean by saturated - if 10 people try to make free sites with the 1 set it will be saturated on link lists, but if just sitting in 10 members areas then no its not.

Still plenty of decent quality material avalable exclsuively and low cost.

> Ease of sale and above

> Its a branding and paysite marketing issue. If you shoot exclusively for your tours you can brand the material to suit your brand. A model sporting a shirt or sign for the "Girlnextdoor-sucks-on-postmans-cock.com" talking about winning the next blow job olympics and name dropping the site probably won't come from a shelf in a content store.

> Marketing purposes. You can distribute to affiliates under your license and pretty much do what you want with it. In house marketing gets return from position on fresh content.

There has thus been a trend for companies to move towards kind of content.

I dont agree necessarily with the market expecting exclsives for lower prices and for sure private's will retain super well.

One of the reasons programs other than those owned by big producers do pull in large volumes of traffic is becuase the flexibility, speed of delivery and lower relative cost shooting content facilitates creativity in terms of niche exploitation.

Apply this to the program
Retenion may not be as good as sites pushing high end content but you can up and cross sell those people and surfer buying Girlnextdoor-sucks-on-postmans-cock.com willcome back to see Girlnextdoor-loves-postmanscosk-in-her-ass.com and so it goes on :)

Good answers.

I can see why people will buy exclusive if it's good and try to get the price down that's good business. We've bought some exclusive sets and sold them non exclusive and made a nice profit off them. It's got to be real crap to not sell 20 times at $5 so the risks are low. But the crap offered to us often is rejected.

Agreed. I know what it's like to work from a country that is not the US and getting a CC processor.

Agreed. The reason for our success is largely down to Eva shooting a lot and me marketing.

Agreed. Very possibly a reason. contrary to the popular belief :winkwink: it is not as easy as many think to pick up a camera and produce porn. It takes skills and talent, the equipment may be easy to master and obtain the rest is the hard part. And the part that keeps members coming back for more and more.

Don't agree with this one. As we sell the 20 sets for $25 offer to the same people time after time, plus Bargain Basement is full of webmasters content at $5 that sell 50 times and no one complains. If a set used by 10 people on free sites would saturate it no one would be using the free sets given out to 1,000s.

Cause traffic is KING

Absolute rubbish!!!

Conversion and retention are KING & QUEEN.

A million hits an hour will not make you a penny unless it stops somewhere to buy something. Unless you are a traffic broker selling clicks. :1orglaugh

The surfer is looking for content, he stops when he see content, he looks again when he sees content he likes, he thinks about buying because he likes the content, he buys because he likes the content, he stays and rebills because he loves the content. In what part of this scenario is traffic king?

The answer is simple, when you have built the site full of the best content you can get. This depends on budget and skills of selecting porn. Then the more traffic you send the more sign ups you get.

Of course if you have a bucket with a hole and no skills to repair it, one of the ways to fill the bucket is to increase the water flow. The bigger the hole the bigger the water flow needed to fill it.

Could be why so many sites retain for only two months.

I want to read more but 1st come to mind is What makes good content is Energy of sex...You call it sexy or or not sexy...Why Pauls Content is good,becuase he has right motivation...He LOVES girls..many fotografers even the ones shooting for me DO IT FOR MONEY..and that makes pics not sexy..When I shoot myself i am as good as Paul becuase i like what i do and do not care about money...It is like Black Square of Malevich why it is great becuase the guy was high with his Art..Same with Paul he is high with what he does and that what metters...Same applies to our content

Well the free sets ofte wont get listed as free sites as watermarked mostly anyway. Galeries will get listed no probs -content does the rounds a lot more. Anyway, minor issue, was just making the point that there is no absolute to "saturation", it is relative to marketing technique, site, program and perspective.

Key Point...
Programs pushing large volumes of traffic often rely content flexibility, speed of delivery and lower relative cost of shooting content.
This does facilitate creativity in terms of niche exploitation.
You can bang out loads of unqiue sites exploiting new niches all the time keeping both surfer and affiliate amused. Its hard to follow this business model with store or higher priced custom work.