New Orleans: Who should be fired? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

sperbonzo · 09-05-2005, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppet

Hiyas Sunshine.

Hello Poppet

poppet · 09-05-2005, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Hello Poppet

51 snoggins for Sunshine.

GigoloMason · 09-05-2005, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreasureBucks

police dont loot, they commandeer.

LMFAO.. sorry that was funny

GigoloMason · 09-05-2005, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

There's a good point of discussion

Do you understand how emergency releif services work on a national scale? Do you understand the powers of states verses the feds when it comes to law enforcement and emergency management?

There are a lot of people using this a political football, and a way to cover their own butts, but I would suggest some research on how the structure is actually set up.

So agencies like the national guard aren't dispatched short of martial law in national emergencies?

I suppose you're going to say diverting 80% of the funds from the levies for the war efforts wasn't their fault either.

Honestly there's a lot of people at fault here but to excuse this administration of responsibility completly is just being silly.

EviLSuperstaR · 09-06-2005, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by directfiesta

Editorial blasts federal response

NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- The Times-Picayune of New Orleans printed this editorial in its Sunday edition, criticizing the federal government's response to Hurricane Katrina and calling on every FEMA official to be fired:
An open letter to the President

Dear Mr. President:

We heard you loud and clear Friday when you visited our devastated city and the Gulf Coast and said, "What is not working, we're going to make it right."

Please forgive us if we wait to see proof of your promise before believing you. But we have good reason for our skepticism.

Bienville built New Orleans where he built it for one main reason: It's accessible. The city between the Mississippi River and Lake Pontchartrain was easy to reach in 1718.

How much easier it is to access in 2005 now that there are interstates and bridges, airports and helipads, cruise ships, barges, buses and diesel-powered trucks.

Despite the city's multiple points of entry, our nation's bureaucrats spent days after last week's hurricane wringing their hands, lamenting the fact that they could neither rescue the city's stranded victims nor bring them food, water and medical supplies.

Meanwhile there were journalists, including some who work for The Times-Picayune, going in and out of the city via the Crescent City Connection. On Thursday morning, that crew saw a caravan of 13 Wal-Mart tractor trailers headed into town to bring food, water and supplies to a dying city.

Television reporters were doing live reports from downtown New Orleans streets. Harry Connick Jr. brought in some aid Thursday, and his efforts were the focus of a "Today" show story Friday morning.

Yet, the people trained to protect our nation, the people whose job it is to quickly bring in aid were absent. Those who should have been deploying troops were singing a sad song about how our city was impossible to reach.

We're angry, Mr. President, and we'll be angry long after our beloved city and surrounding parishes have been pumped dry. Our people deserved rescuing. Many who could have been were not. That's to the government's shame.

Mayor Ray Nagin did the right thing Sunday when he allowed those with no other alternative to seek shelter from the storm inside the Louisiana Superdome. We still don't know what the death toll is, but one thing is certain: Had the Superdome not been opened, the city's death toll would have been higher. The toll may even have been exponentially higher.

It was clear to us by late morning Monday that many people inside the Superdome would not be returning home. It should have been clear to our government, Mr. President. So why weren't they evacuated out of the city immediately? We learned seven years ago, when Hurricane Georges threatened, that the Dome isn't suitable as a long-term shelter. So what did state and national officials think would happen to tens of thousands of people trapped inside with no air conditioning, overflowing toilets and dwindling amounts of food, water and other essentials?

State Rep. Karen Carter was right Friday when she said the city didn't have but two urgent needs: "Buses! And gas!" Every official at the Federal Emergency Management Agency should be fired, Director Michael Brown especially.

In a nationally televised interview Thursday night, he said his agency hadn't known until that day that thousands of storm victims were stranded at the Ernest N. Morial Convention Center. He gave another nationally televised interview the next morning and said, "We've provided food to the people at the Convention Center so that they've gotten at least one, if not two meals, every single day."

Lies don't get more bald-faced than that, Mr. President.

Yet, when you met with Mr. Brown Friday morning, you told him, "You're doing a heck of a job."

That's unbelievable.

There were thousands of people at the Convention Center because the riverfront is high ground. The fact that so many people had reached there on foot is proof that rescue vehicles could have gotten there, too.

We, who are from New Orleans, are no less American than those who live on the Great Plains or along the Atlantic Seaboard. We're no less important than those from the Pacific Northwest or Appalachia. Our people deserved to be rescued.

No expense should have been spared. No excuses should have been voiced. Especially not one as preposterous as the claim that New Orleans couldn't be reached.

Mr. President, we sincerely hope you fulfill your promise to make our beloved communities work right once again.

When you do, we will be the first to applaud.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/04/tim...ial/index.html

A presidency full of Bush lies

Heywood Jablome · 09-06-2005, 06:03 AM

Ray Nagin is rolling over Governor Blanco

NAGIN: The president looked at me. I think he was a little surprised. He said, "No, you guys stay here. We're going to another section of the plane, and we're going to make a decision."

He called me in that office after that. And he said, "Mr. Mayor, I offered two options to the governor." I said -- and I don't remember exactly what. There were two options. I was ready to move today. The governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision.

S. O'BRIEN: You're telling me the president told you the governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision?

NAGIN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Regarding what? Bringing troops in?

NAGIN: Whatever they had discussed. As far as what the -- I was abdicating a clear chain of command, so that we could get resources flowing in the right places.

S. O'BRIEN: And the governor said no.

NAGIN: She said that she needed 24 hours to make a decision. It would have been great if we could of left Air Force One, walked outside, and told the world that we had this all worked out. It didn't happen, and more people died.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AcidMax · 09-06-2005, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaifan99

every single local official

The first most logical comment made yet. You guys call all try to blame Bush and Brown for the problems, but when does the mayor and the governer have to take blame? They should be the first to blame. Where was their proactivenes with the hurricane coming? Why didn't they initiate the national guard or do whatever they could do when they had advanced warning .Why is it other states are able to cope and Louisiana is not? I think this is entirely the fault of the local politicians and their state support.

Pete-KT · 09-06-2005, 07:00 AM

impechmant of BUSH is whats called for right now

scoreman · 09-06-2005, 07:38 AM

In defense of Brown and FEMA, there really is no longer a FEMA. Instead, FEMA was absorbed last year into the Homeland Security.

That said, FEMA was completely unprepared and Brown ultimately should be held responsible for that.

There were not enough troops available to send into the city to quell looting because of the ongoing war in the middle east. Reserves stationed in Louisiana were not sent in right away because the commanders there were more concerned about their upcoming Afghan and Iraq deployments.

TheSaint · 09-06-2005, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2257-Ben

The lack of control has been brought on by the lack of LOCAL leadership. The Mayor of New Orleans isn't a leader, nor are the Police Chief, Fire Chief or the Governor of Louisiana. You can't blame the havoc on the federal government. Leadership (and the blame for lack of leadership) belongs to the LOCAL officials.

Yep that is exactly right. This is not a centrailized planned nation, but a federation of states. If the state government knew that a crummy 2 million dollars was needed to shore up the system and didn't fix it just because they couldn't get the US taxpayer to foot the bill, those guys need to be fired first.

directfiesta · 09-06-2005, 09:12 AM

White House Rejects Calls To Replace Top Emergency Officials

2 catastrophes under the watch of G.W. Bush and both end up as fuck-ups !

Let me tell you that the whole world is watching, and that includes your ennemies, the " terrorists " ... They just have been witness of the lack of preparation of the USA and of the effect of a lawless city ...

I wonder if they are at their drawing board for the next attack ( strike 3 ) .

BTW, it's obvious that they do not need nuclear WMD to accomplish their goals.

AcidMax · 09-06-2005, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NichePay_PeteKT

impechmant of BUSH is whats called for right now

Sorry dude, that is just stupid. It is not his fault or is Mother Nature a fucking republican now?

AcidMax · 09-06-2005, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSaint

Yep that is exactly right. This is not a centrailized planned nation, but a federation of states. If the state government knew that a crummy 2 million dollars was needed to shore up the system and didn't fix it just because they couldn't get the US taxpayer to foot the bill, those guys need to be fired first.

The local officials want everyone to help them, yet they did NOTHING to help themselves. They had warning of this shit DAYS in advance and they could have started their emergency services processing well ahead of time, instead they sat back. They knew they were at risk with any big storms coming through for YEARS and they didn't do anything about it. This is not the governments fault, but at the same time this is not the time for the people to suffer. I think the government is doing all they can do to help the victims, I know because I have many friends who are firefighters like I am down there helping out, most of whom are not getting paid.

The local officials need to stop pissing and moaning and start taking responsibility for their fuckup, this is not a GW issue.

2257-Ben · 09-06-2005, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleazeQueen

Why can't we fire Bush? It's called impeachment. Remember we impeached Clinton for lying about a blow job? Bush has lied about a lot worse than some cock sucking.

Bush lied about WMD's. They were adamant there was "no doubt" and that it was "certain" there were WMD's despite the myriad of people saying there weren't any there. I seem to remember satelite photos of specific trucks and camps and facilities where there was "no doubt" and it was an "absolute certainty" that WMDs and chemical compounds were being produced.

The administration repeatedly lied about the "imminent threat" to the USA by Iraq.

They lied about the connection between Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden.

They lied about there being no warnings of the attacks on 9/11/01.

He lied about a "fleet of unmanned planes" that were supposed to be used by Iraq to attack us with chemical weapons on our soil.

They lied about aluminum tubes, connections to terrorism, about the fact that they have been looking for a reason to attack Iraq since Innauguration Day.

As I'm typing this here, he's lying about why he's in Mississippi and not in New Orleans on CNN.

Scott McClellan, the press secretary, has been all over the TV trying to cover up the incompetence and lack of action by the Bush White House on Hurricane Katrina by saying "Now is not the time for politics". But meanwhile, the Republican National Committee leader is out there pimping the repeal of the Estate Tax.. er... uh.. I mean "Death Tax" (can't call it an estate tax because that makes it sound like what it is, a tax cut for rich folks, but if we call is a Death Tax the stupid masses will think, "Hey! I could die too, I need to get rid of that tax!").

LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE... And that's just the obvious ones off the top of my head. If you want to put on a matching set of tinfoil hats with me, we can look at some of the way out there lies like lies about who is at Gitmo and why and the like.

IMPEACH - To charge (a public official) with improper conduct in office before a proper tribunal.

I think it fits a whole range of situations that the Bush White House has muddled, fumbled and plain old lied about over the last 5 years. Unfortunately, it seems like I'm alone and nobody out there in DC has the balls to get the process moving.

Sad. But don't listen to me, I must be some Michael Moore loving, liberal whacko. Not just a citizen who has had enough bullshit and is getting mad as hell, but someone with a liberal adgenda. I couldn't possibly be a wife and business woman who is trying to keep my family alive. I couldn't possibly be one of the masses who are struggling as our benefits are cut, our businesses dwindle along with our health and nobody hears our cries for help.

It's not a lot of fun for a lot of us right now, but you ask those people in New Orleans (where the president can't be bothered to visit this morning because he's hanging out with Trent Lott and white mayors in Mississippi) if they feel like the White House is supporting them. My situation is bad, but I'm not dying yet. Those people are fucking dying.

Bill Clinton LIED UNDER OATH to a federal grand jury. That's what got him impeached. It wasn't the fact that he lied about a blow job that got him in trouble, it was WHO he lied to that got his ass impeached. The difference is that GWB made decisions based on bad information. Not the same as lying to a federal grand jury.

Jellybeen · 09-06-2005, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoreman

That said, FEMA was completely unprepared and Brown ultimately should be held responsible for that.

There were not enough troops available to send into the city to quell looting because of the ongoing war in the middle east. Reserves stationed in Louisiana were not sent in right away because the commanders there were more concerned about their upcoming Afghan and Iraq deployments.

It had nothing at all to do with the war in the middle east, nor the supposed upcoming Afghan and Iraq deployments. The "commanders" in Louisiana do not have the power to just up and tell their soldiers to go here and there.

Some of you - actually many of you - posting in this thread should really educate yourselves on the duties of the States and their Governors.

The duty to activate and deploy Guardsmen goes first and foremost to Blanco. She is the leader of the State. The local Guard commanders cannot act without her permission. The President cannot override her, the head of FEMA cannot override her. The military cannot override her. They can do NOTHING until she requests or accepts their help.

Saturday morning, nearly 48 hours before the storm hit, President Bush declared Louisiana (and Mississippi and Alabama) states of emergency.
This declaration gave Governor Blanco full authority to call up her active-duty Guardsmen and deploy them, as well as requesting and accepting Guardsmen from other States.
(Mississippi took full advantage of this, as did Alabama.)

Sunday night before the storm hit, she had activated just 3,500 of her active-duty Guardsmen. Another 6,500 sat on their hands waiting for her call. This doesn't even take into account the non-active-duty Guardsmen that she could have called up due to the emergency situation. There's a major Cat 4/5 hurricane headed straight for New Orleans, and she doesn't even bother deploying half of the Guard at her disposal. Of the 3,500 that she DID deploy, how many did she send to New Orleans? There certainly weren't 3,500 soldiers there after the storm. Judging from the news reports, live cam feeds, and on-the-ground reports, there MAY have been 500 - and that number is being generous.

Sunday she also wrote a letter asking the President for $130 million in funds for anticipated rebuilding. A Cat 4/5 hurricane coming for her state and all she thinks it will take to fix it is $130 million. The woman had no clue.

New Mexico's Governor offered ALL of its active-duty troops to assist Louisiana on Sunday before the storm hit, and the NM Governor faxed over the paper with his signature on it giving Blanco full command of his Guardsmen. All she had to do was sign it and fax it back. She sat on it, saying she needed to wait for a paper from the Feds, which would take 4 days to get there. Bush had already given her the authority to use these troops with his declaration on Saturday. That declaration overrides normal procedure and gives Governors extra powers and the ability to skip certain paperwork. She also held off the Texas Governor's offer of Guardsmen until (as far as I can tell tracking down paperwork and timelines online) Friday after the President came and talked to her.

FEMA had trucks with supplies and emergency vehicles on the ground on a highway outside of New Orleans (I saw at least 30 vehicles but the helicopter camera was moving quickly so it was probably more) but could not get into the city because the Governor had not deployed enough Guardsmen there to protect their unarmed personnel. They had to sit and wait for Blanco to get off of her ass. Actually, they had to sit and wait for Bush to fly down on Friday and TELL HER to get off of her ass and deploy troops to the area so their people could go in safely.

The Feds have requested to be given control of the situation so that they can deploy troops and relief workers where necessary - Blanco has refused. No troops can be deployed without her permission. No relief workers can get in without her permission. In the lower Parishes right now, there are Guardsmen having to turn away tractor trailers full of supplies sent by private groups and corporations because Blanco has not given them permission to accept these supplies. The only authority she has given them is to perform search and rescue and provide protection against criminals. They would love to accept this help but they cannot, because Blanco wants to personally review and approve/disapprove every movement in/out of the state.

A huge Navy ship left here (Norfolk) Monday night/early Tuesday (right after the storm) morning to go to the Gulf. It's been there for days upon days. It's now sitting there with hundreds of doctors and nurses, hundreds of soldiers who could be providing help, 600 beds that are going unused, and it can make 100,000 gallons of drinking water per DAY. (It converts it from seawater.) This is the big ship that went to help in the tsunami effort and provided most of the drinking water. It is sitting there unused and the sailors on board are going crazy wanting to help. They CANNOT leave the ship to help until Governor Blanco requests their help (otherwise it would be considered an invasion). They keep offering their help, she keeps ignoring them.

She even told the President, when he offered aid to her directly, that she needed 24 hours to think about it. When people are dying in her state and especially in New Orleans with every passing hour.

She is trying to micro-manage a situation that is far too big for her limited brain capacity, and people are dying because of it. Because she wants full power and is unwilling to step aside so that shit can get done. Meanwhile, people are dying because of her pride, power-hungry ego, and brainlessness.

scoreman · 09-06-2005, 10:16 AM

Good info, thanks for the education.

I was referring to the Army reserves and not the National Guard, but on that point it would seem to be the National Guard that would be called in first.

Jellybeen · 09-06-2005, 11:46 AM

Score I know that the Pentagon sent down active duty troops early but not sure on what day - haven't been able to track that down. They did "increase" the number of active duty troops to 30,000 on Thursday (so whatever they sent initially was below 30k) and Bush sent more than 7,000 additional active duty troops on Saturday.

There's going to be investigations left and right, probably for the next two or three years, over this. Every involved player could have done something more, or something different... I just hope there's a massive inspection and overhauling of disaster relief plans in all States and on all levels to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen again.

For example, having to wait for Congress to be back into session to approve aid funds and further untie the President's hands to be able to take action - perhaps in the future, if the President declares an area to be a "disaster area", Congress should be required to immediately go back into session that day or the next? That would be an improvement and avoid some of the waiting we had last week.

EviLSuperstaR · 09-07-2005, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AcidMax

Sorry dude, that is just stupid. It is not his fault or is Mother Nature a fucking republican now?

If his government would have acted swiftly to a disaster that was not even unexpected, thousands of lives would have been saved. Instead Bush and his mates preferred to stay their looooong holiday course...

09-06-2005, 07:38 AM	#59
scoreman Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 1,491	In defense of Brown and FEMA, there really is no longer a FEMA. Instead, FEMA was absorbed last year into the Homeland Security. That said, FEMA was completely unprepared and Brown ultimately should be held responsible for that. There were not enough troops available to send into the city to quell looting because of the ongoing war in the middle east. Reserves stationed in Louisiana were not sent in right away because the commanders there were more concerned about their upcoming Afghan and Iraq deployments. __________________

09-06-2005, 09:12 AM	#61
directfiesta Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 29,687	White House Rejects Calls To Replace Top Emergency Officials 2 catastrophes under the watch of G.W. Bush and both end up as fuck-ups ! Let me tell you that the whole world is watching, and that includes your ennemies, the " terrorists " ... They just have been witness of the lack of preparation of the USA and of the effect of a lawless city ... I wonder if they are at their drawing board for the next attack ( strike 3 ) . BTW, it's obvious that they do not need nuclear WMD to accomplish their goals. __________________ I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT ! But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

09-06-2005, 10:16 AM	#66
scoreman Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 1,491	Good info, thanks for the education. I was referring to the Army reserves and not the National Guard, but on that point it would seem to be the National Guard that would be called in first. __________________

09-06-2005, 06:03 AM	#56
Heywood Jablome Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In Quarantine Posts: 869	Ray Nagin is rolling over Governor Blanco NAGIN: The president looked at me. I think he was a little surprised. He said, "No, you guys stay here. We're going to another section of the plane, and we're going to make a decision." He called me in that office after that. And he said, "Mr. Mayor, I offered two options to the governor." I said -- and I don't remember exactly what. There were two options. I was ready to move today. The governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision. S. O'BRIEN: You're telling me the president told you the governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision? NAGIN: Yes. S. O'BRIEN: Regarding what? Bringing troops in? NAGIN: Whatever they had discussed. As far as what the -- I was abdicating a clear chain of command, so that we could get resources flowing in the right places. S. O'BRIEN: And the governor said no. NAGIN: She said that she needed 24 hours to make a decision. It would have been great if we could of left Air Force One, walked outside, and told the world that we had this all worked out. It didn't happen, and more people died. (END VIDEOTAPE)

09-06-2005, 07:00 AM	#58
Pete-KT Workin With The Devil Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: West Bloomfield, MI Posts: 51,532	impechmant of BUSH is whats called for right now

09-06-2005, 11:46 AM	#67
Jellybeen Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 86	Score I know that the Pentagon sent down active duty troops early but not sure on what day - haven't been able to track that down. They did "increase" the number of active duty troops to 30,000 on Thursday (so whatever they sent initially was below 30k) and Bush sent more than 7,000 additional active duty troops on Saturday. There's going to be investigations left and right, probably for the next two or three years, over this. Every involved player could have done something more, or something different... I just hope there's a massive inspection and overhauling of disaster relief plans in all States and on all levels to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen again. For example, having to wait for Congress to be back into session to approve aid funds and further untie the President's hands to be able to take action - perhaps in the future, if the President declares an area to be a "disaster area", Congress should be required to immediately go back into session that day or the next? That would be an improvement and avoid some of the waiting we had last week.