Ever consider this when hiring an outsourced designer? - GoFuckYourself.com

eroswebmaster · 08-06-2005, 08:48 AM

They give you someone who is relatively untrained in this industry.

Even if it's been "two months" training that is just not enough to understand some of the complex issues when dealing with marketing.

So, you pay $900 a month to essentially train someone else employee. They are not yours, you are only renting them.

Now after 3 months you finally get this outsourced employee to where you are somewhat satisfied with quality and speed of their output.

Then what? all of a sudden he disappears. He no longer works for the company you were hiring from.

Yeah right! LOL...they just stick you with another employee to train for them while he goes on to one of their bigger clients or produces materails for them instead.

I know of many people who have trained their outsourced employees only for them to no longer be available to them months later.

What a nice system. You get charged $900+ a month to increase the value of their product.

Adult Site Traffic · 08-06-2005, 08:53 AM

I can't find decent, valuable outsourced labor anywhere at a reasonable price.

3piece chicken Dinner · 08-06-2005, 08:55 AM

This industry has a well documented history of people bettering their own product with the money of others that in turn get little to NO return.

Yeah, the designer that quit, is the new " rouge designer" excuse.

But seriously Eros you should know better than anyone, " It's all about the cheap" people will deal with a mountain of shit if they FEEL like they are saving money.

Dalai lama · 08-06-2005, 08:56 AM

I have outsourced a designer from Asia before. And they are really up to 4 times cheaper then the $900 you pay at average outsourcing company + more loyal.

If you outsource one, cut out the middle man.

eroswebmaster · 08-06-2005, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3piece chicken Dinner

This industry has a well documented history of people bettering their own product with the money of others that in turn get little to NO return.

Yeah, the designer that quit, is the new " rouge designer" excuse.

But seriously Eros you should know better than anyone, " It's all about the cheap" people will deal with a mountain of shit if they FEEL like they are saving money.

Oh yeah. I learned my lesson.

Platinumpimp · 08-06-2005, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalai lama

I have outsourced a designer from Asia before. And they are really up to 4 times cheaper then the $900 you pay at average outsourcing company + more loyal.

If you outsource one, cut out the middle man.

I agree. Thing is, these outsourcing companies pay the designer itself $200-300, and the rest is pure profit. While they get trained by the guy who is using them.

eroswebmaster · 08-06-2005, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platinumpimp

I agree. Thing is, these outsourcing companies pay the designer itself $200-300, and the rest is pure profit. While they get trained by the guy who is using them.

It's a great business model. Just not a great business model for the clients.

Not only do you have to deal with hiring someone who has no clue as to what they are doing, you have to worry about them stealing other designer's work to short cut the process, and then what legal recourse do you have if they are working on one of your concepts that requires a lot of secrecy....NONE!

Gene a.k.a. $5Submissions who has his own outsourcing company *doesn't do adult anymore ever wonder why?* even pointed it out here on GFY one day, that if the law outlawing adult work in the philippines gets passed it means you have no legal recourse whatsoever in the PI because they are essentially doing something illegal to begin with.

Damn people wake the fuck up, or get fucked over.

Fletch XXX · 08-06-2005, 09:12 AM

good post eros, and true.

cherrylula · 08-06-2005, 09:12 AM

I find no sense in paying someone while teaching them your trade secrets. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

cherrylula · 08-06-2005, 09:16 AM

hell for $900 in a months time I'd surely let someone teach me *their* business plan.

eroswebmaster · 08-06-2005, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherrylula

hell for $900 in a months time I'd surely let someone teach me *their* business plan.

LOL No kidding.

DateDoc · 08-06-2005, 09:26 AM

Don't deal with them if you do not have an email address that is not direct to the employee and I don't mean one that is provided for them through work. Better yet set up a yahoo email account and have the employee use it.

tony286 · 08-06-2005, 09:30 AM

I think some people dont care and they just want it done and arent big creative types.These models probably work for them. I would rather hire and pay more for a real person who is into what he is doing not a wage slave.

eroswebmaster · 08-06-2005, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

I think some people dont care and they just want it done and arent big creative types.These models probably work for them. I would rather hire and pay more for a real person who is into what he is doing not a wage slave.

I do believe you missed the point.

If you don't care and "just want it done." Then outsourcing is clearly not the way for most clients...specifically those who have to train their new employees to do the job.

It would be much easier to pay someone a working wage who knows what he/she is doing without alot of training, and only a small amount of instruction.

d00t · 08-06-2005, 09:36 AM

well, why not outsource your design to a company that already has paysites and is very established in the business?

www.pimpindesign.com

I totally agree with you eroswebmaster, you hit the nail on the head. Price should never be the ultimate determining factor when it comes to your business. If you want quality, and someone that is going to be around for the long haul you can count on, you NEED to pay for it.

Quickdraw · 08-06-2005, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eroswebmaster

It would be much easier to pay someone a working wage who knows what he/she is doing without alot of training, and only a small amount of instruction.

Agreed.

Plus you have to repeat those instructions over and over because they think calling you sir will mend all mistakes.

Oh, and you should be really worried when they put their ICQ on invisible. I changed tasks for the last guy I had which required him to log into a site and update text and a few other things(again, it was training so he could actually make a banner without using the word 'actions'). He forgot that everything was time stamped so I could see he was only working a couple hrs a day.

Then the outsourcing company itself never leaves you alone, they are always bombarding ICQ with 'special deals'.
ANd the list goes on and on...

allain123456 · 08-10-2005, 08:45 PM

yeah i believe you guys so its much better to deal with your old known designer..my partner used to be working before to an outsource company then move out when he realize that the client is paying triple the price of what he get in his salary good thing he found a nice client who now directly working with him...damn those outsource company with no concern on developing relationship with the designers and clients...

tungsten · 08-10-2005, 08:56 PM

you got a point man, im not a big fan of outsourcing designers either

Sawblade2dahead · 08-10-2005, 09:05 PM

I was thinking of giving sniperwolf a try @ PAOS, anyone have any experiencewith them?

mammy · 08-11-2005, 01:40 PM

make sence to hire proffesional designer from us or europe for 2-3 k per month to do high class job
then trying to teach azn

Lizy · 08-11-2005, 01:55 PM

Buying outsourcing is the same as buying a car.
A $15k chinese car might not drive as nice as the $45k German BMW.
Becomes interesting when this BMW is built in a lower cost country with Western management ;-)

Demand qualified people, ask for references. Choose an outsource company that works on your timezone and operates legally.

http://www.123resourcing.com as I said: ask for some references ;-)

->

$5 submissions · 08-11-2005, 01:56 PM

To address this issue: "Gene a.k.a. $5Submissions who has his own outsourcing company *doesn't do adult anymore ever wonder why?* "

My company stopped doing adult work because of 1) pending legal change (it's always better to be behind the 8 ball instead of in front of it

) 2) family issues 3) our mainstream business is expanding more rapidly than we anticipated 4) our expansion into the very lucrative callcenter business and 5) maximizing client value. We incurred quite a bit of $$$ in reorienting our labor pool from adult text to mainstream/business text but the results have been quite pleasantly surprising thus far.

Webmasterlabor.com's forte was never in design/coding. We focused mostly on text/data entry and analytics/research.

I agree with you that outsourcing is lucrative. We leveraged the resources we generated from that business model to fund mainstream and offline activities. We're on our way to 50+ employees.

As for legal issues, two bills are worthwhile keeping an eye on... the Santiago anti-sex webcam bill and SB 1892 Revilla anti-porn bill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eroswebmaster

It's a great business model. Just not a great business model for the clients.

Not only do you have to deal with hiring someone who has no clue as to what they are doing, you have to worry about them stealing other designer's work to short cut the process, and then what legal recourse do you have if they are working on one of your concepts that requires a lot of secrecy....NONE!

Gene a.k.a. $5Submissions who has his own outsourcing company *doesn't do adult anymore ever wonder why?* even pointed it out here on GFY one day, that if the law outlawing adult work in the philippines gets passed it means you have no legal recourse whatsoever in the PI because they are essentially doing something illegal to begin with.

Damn people wake the fuck up, or get fucked over.

$5 submissions · 08-11-2005, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalai lama

I have outsourced a designer from Asia before. And they are really up to 4 times cheaper then the $900 you pay at average outsourcing company + more loyal.

If you outsource one, cut out the middle man.

$225 a month for an experienced designer? Whoa! really?

I outsource all my design work to US and sometimes Filipino designers. I usually retain them on a per project basis though.

B2BwithJoeD · 08-11-2005, 03:39 PM

Look for established relationships, interaction with Host Governments, and officially sanctioned labor management - who do you trust with your business?

BUMP for http://www.123resourcing.com

$5 submissions · 08-11-2005, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klixxxman

Look for established relationships, interaction with Host Governments, and officially sanctioned labor management - who do you trust with your business?

BUMP for http://www.123resourcing.com

Based in Panama. Interesting.

manilaheat · 08-11-2005, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platinumpimp

I agree. Thing is, these outsourcing companies pay the designer itself $200-300, and the rest is pure profit. While they get trained by the guy who is using them.

I disagree - I had a little experience running an outsourcing company.
The rest is not 'pure profit'. There are significant costs involved in paying for the office overhead and management of an outsourcing company.

If you want to hire a individual, then you will probaly end up with a person working for 4 different companies on a shitty DSL or Dial up connection.

Then who knows where you designs, lists are getting sent to.

Paying for the outsourcing company insures that you get the full productivity of that webmaster, a clean and fast working environment, and a company that you can hold responsible for your trade secrets etc.

Problem is - there are a ton of shady outsourcing companies out there that don't spend the extra loot on the above and give out terrible service.

Proadultoutsouring.com is one of those shady companies BTW - so beware of those guys.

Realpascal · 08-12-2005, 12:19 AM

And another minute passes..

VeriSexy · 08-12-2005, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherrylula

hell for $900 in a months time I'd surely let someone teach me *their* business plan.

Yeah they get paid and learn everything to know.............

Rui · 08-13-2005, 11:49 AM

This is indeed true, but as with everything there are several levels of outsourced work...

Like for example in a factory you can decide to outsource the cleaning of your offices (for example) to another company with a steady record of good work or good with a unknown one (most of the times cheaper) and take your chances...

chaze · 08-13-2005, 11:54 AM

It's not hard, http://www.quickstartadult.com will do all your design work at a great price and never be shady. They do not their own adult sites, just a demo for showing how they work. I also think that designers charge too much to keep on staff and never stick arund. It's almost ike they are artists, super flakey.

Sly · 08-13-2005, 11:56 AM

Why would anyone teach their "industry secrets" to outsourced employees? Uh, are you folks on crack.

I have a Filipino worker. At first it was a chore because he had no idea what TGP galleries and free sites were. After a couple weeks, he really started catching on and right now he's a pretty good investment. Would I be pissed if he left? Of course, I would be upset because I would have to teach him the basics again. But overall, he shows up to work everyday, completes tasks fairly quickly, and does a pretty good job. I'm afraid I can't say the same for many non-Filipino designers I've worked with. Also, if I hired a local in-house graphics guy, odds are I would need to spend quite a bit of time training him as well.

You take the good with the bad.

08-06-2005, 08:48 AM	#1
eroswebmaster March 1st, 2003 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seat 4 @ Venetian Poker Room Posts: 20,295	Ever consider this when hiring an outsourced designer? They give you someone who is relatively untrained in this industry. Even if it's been "two months" training that is just not enough to understand some of the complex issues when dealing with marketing. So, you pay $900 a month to essentially train someone else employee. They are not yours, you are only renting them. Now after 3 months you finally get this outsourced employee to where you are somewhat satisfied with quality and speed of their output. Then what? all of a sudden he disappears. He no longer works for the company you were hiring from. Yeah right! LOL...they just stick you with another employee to train for them while he goes on to one of their bigger clients or produces materails for them instead. I know of many people who have trained their outsourced employees only for them to no longer be available to them months later. What a nice system. You get charged $900+ a month to increase the value of their product. __________________ For rent - ICQ 127-027-910 Click here for more details

08-06-2005, 08:53 AM	#2
Adult Site Traffic Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: South-East of the Border of Disorder Posts: 5,093	I can't find decent, valuable outsourced labor anywhere at a reasonable price. __________________ ALL Domains and Websites are GOING AWAY NOW! Ask me! Many great domains, mainstream and adult, some complete sites with databases, some names with traffic and PR, some investment quality names. Come take a look! { Traffic Orders: Please go here } .:: SHARPEN the Elite - BURN the leftovers! Ooh-Rah!! ::.

08-06-2005, 08:55 AM	#3
3piece chicken Dinner Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: On your plate Posts: 1,065	This industry has a well documented history of people bettering their own product with the money of others that in turn get little to NO return. Yeah, the designer that quit, is the new " rouge designer" excuse. But seriously Eros you should know better than anyone, " It's all about the cheap" people will deal with a mountain of shit if they FEEL like they are saving money. __________________ "We are told to let our light shine, and if it does, we won't need to tell anybody it does. Lighthouses don't fire cannons to call attention to their shining- they just shine."

08-06-2005, 08:56 AM	#4
Dalai lama Strength and Honor Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 16,540	I have outsourced a designer from Asia before. And they are really up to 4 times cheaper then the $900 you pay at average outsourcing company + more loyal. If you outsource one, cut out the middle man. __________________ A program you can trust. Gallerybooster Run multiply TGPs of 1 script

08-06-2005, 09:12 AM	#8
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	good post eros, and true. __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

08-06-2005, 09:12 AM	#9
cherrylula lol Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 15,969	I find no sense in paying someone while teaching them your trade secrets. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

08-06-2005, 09:16 AM	#10
cherrylula lol Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 15,969	hell for $900 in a months time I'd surely let someone teach me their business plan.

08-06-2005, 09:26 AM	#12
DateDoc Outside looking in. Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: To Hell You Ride Posts: 14,243	Don't deal with them if you do not have an email address that is not direct to the employee and I don't mean one that is provided for them through work. Better yet set up a yahoo email account and have the employee use it. __________________

08-06-2005, 09:30 AM	#13
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	I think some people dont care and they just want it done and arent big creative types.These models probably work for them. I would rather hire and pay more for a real person who is into what he is doing not a wage slave.

08-06-2005, 09:36 AM	#15
d00t Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In your mind Posts: 3,766	well, why not outsource your design to a company that already has paysites and is very established in the business? www.pimpindesign.com I totally agree with you eroswebmaster, you hit the nail on the head. Price should never be the ultimate determining factor when it comes to your business. If you want quality, and someone that is going to be around for the long haul you can count on, you NEED to pay for it.

08-10-2005, 08:45 PM	#17
allain123456 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: South East Asia Posts: 25	yeah i believe you guys so its much better to deal with your old known designer..my partner used to be working before to an outsource company then move out when he realize that the client is paying triple the price of what he get in his salary good thing he found a nice client who now directly working with him...damn those outsource company with no concern on developing relationship with the designers and clients... __________________ WebLanPro Solutions WebHosting + Web Dev't + Software Dev't + Design BLOG EMAIL YM MSN GTALK

08-10-2005, 08:56 PM	#18
tungsten Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 10,579	you got a point man, im not a big fan of outsourcing designers either __________________ VOYEUR /HOMEMADE, HENTAI / CARTOON, Reality, Amateur, Shemale, Hardcore, Cuckold, Celebrity, Retro/Vintage, ect...ALL OUR SITES >> Unbelievable Ratio \| High % of Rebills \| Bi-Monthly Payments (also to E-Passporte) Ton's of EXCLUSIVE Free content & FHG's \|=> GREAT REVENUE $$$ GUARANTEED!

08-10-2005, 09:05 PM	#19
Sawblade2dahead Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Lauderdale - Costa Rica Posts: 286	I was thinking of giving sniperwolf a try @ PAOS, anyone have any experiencewith them?

08-11-2005, 01:40 PM	#20
mammy Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 2,279	make sence to hire proffesional designer from us or europe for 2-3 k per month to do high class job then trying to teach azn __________________ million dollars for paysite design icq 434954667

08-11-2005, 01:55 PM	#21
Lizy Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 321	Buying outsourcing is the same as buying a car. A $15k chinese car might not drive as nice as the $45k German BMW. Becomes interesting when this BMW is built in a lower cost country with Western management ;-) Demand qualified people, ask for references. Choose an outsource company that works on your timezone and operates legally. http://www.123resourcing.com as I said: ask for some references ;-) -> __________________ Project Management

08-11-2005, 03:39 PM	#24
B2BwithJoeD Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: PayoutMag.com Posts: 1,390	Look for established relationships, interaction with Host Governments, and officially sanctioned labor management - who do you trust with your business? BUMP for http://www.123resourcing.com __________________ BLOG IT! How Will You Spend Your 2014 Profits? - PayoutMag.com Ask me About - Unique Processing and Marketing Solutions - Your Only Risk Is More Revenue!

08-12-2005, 12:19 AM	#27
Realpascal Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Dutchie !!! Posts: 2,119	And another minute passes.. __________________ OMGWTFBBQ

08-13-2005, 11:49 AM	#29
Rui web Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: On icq: 85-483-060 Posts: 9,533	This is indeed true, but as with everything there are several levels of outsourced work... Like for example in a factory you can decide to outsource the cleaning of your offices (for example) to another company with a steady record of good work or good with a unknown one (most of the times cheaper) and take your chances...

08-13-2005, 11:54 AM	#30
chaze Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 9,752	It's not hard, http://www.quickstartadult.com will do all your design work at a great price and never be shady. They do not their own adult sites, just a demo for showing how they work. I also think that designers charge too much to keep on staff and never stick arund. It's almost ike they are artists, super flakey.

08-13-2005, 11:56 AM	#31
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,360	Why would anyone teach their "industry secrets" to outsourced employees? Uh, are you folks on crack. I have a Filipino worker. At first it was a chore because he had no idea what TGP galleries and free sites were. After a couple weeks, he really started catching on and right now he's a pretty good investment. Would I be pissed if he left? Of course, I would be upset because I would have to teach him the basics again. But overall, he shows up to work everyday, completes tasks fairly quickly, and does a pretty good job. I'm afraid I can't say the same for many non-Filipino designers I've worked with. Also, if I hired a local in-house graphics guy, odds are I would need to spend quite a bit of time training him as well. You take the good with the bad. __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Windows VPS now available Great for TSS, Nifty Stats, remote work, virtual assistants, etc. Click here for more details.