It's very unlikely but New Zealand going to war about it wouldn't make us any safer.

You know why London was attacked? You haven't figured it out yet?

It's because some idiot kamikaze driven by an outrageous religion exploded himself to kill people whome he saw as his enemies. It could have happend anywhere. New York, London, the next could very well be Paris, France.

It would still have happened, fanatics dont respond to what you do, they make excuses to justify their actions.

You now quote Bin Laden like what a mass murderer says must be true because he says it? If Bin Laden who has killed Christians, muslims, hindus, athiests says something, it must be true right?

Exactly, plus the G8 was here, tommorow, welcome to Paris and Canada, by the way Paris was on high alert today. Which seems a bit odd when lots of you think they cant be attacked

Short answer: yes.

Hate breeds hate, is that too complex for you to understand?

That's what got us started on this road in the first place. Some VERY bad foreign policies, arrogance that it would never come back to bite us in the ass, and a continued idiotic mentality of 'bring it on' (only when it doesn't involve a real threat like China)


:/

[QUOTE=Johny Traffic]Your wrong, they dont give a fuck about what you do or dont do, they dont come from Iraq, they dont live in Iraq, they couldnt give a flying fuck about Iraq. They are extremists, if you left Iraq tomorow, it would make no difference, they would still want you dead.

They believe you are their enemy, you can not bargain with them, you can not reason with them, they want you, your family, your country dead.

Listen to them, listen to the messages they send out, they do not think like us, they dont care about fellow muslims, arabs, they dont care about christians, blacks, whites, the want you and all your friends in the marines dead.[/QUOTE

Exactly the same as Bush and his religious biggots ....]

Man alive, that's cherry.

I've maybe smoked too much, but I am somewhat positive the 'cycle of war' is older than the US.

Two of the major contributing factors of war:
- Religion (mainly 'Christianity') and other cultish beliefs (the true sponsors of ignorance)
- Greed / power (in the words of the all knowing Brian: "money, money, money, mah-nah ... MAH NAH")
? and of course:
- The fear of change (whether or not the change is better)
- The fact that we are not equal.


When all is said and done and flesh-baggies (humans) have been wiped from this rock, war will remain! It is part of life (think yin-yang), whether or not we like it. (Utopia is not possible, unless you are prepared to give-up what sets you apart from the rest. We must all be truly equal in order for a utopian society to work.)

but I love drugs, so WTF do I know.

Wow, the gov really has you tricked.. Can't talk with someone that has no clue, just not worth my time. You may want to quit watching the news so much and start learning about history of those nations.

50...........

So you know this by your many months of conversing with them in their homes, mosques, etc?



Sorry man, I'm with TheDoc on this one, and I also spent over a decade in the US military and quite a bit of time in that region...so rule out the coward or 100% bleeding heart liberal hippie argument (I'm only 95% liberal ;) )...



The scene you have to imagine from their viewpoint would be this (from the little bit of reading I've done on the topic):

1) Are we done giving Israel billions of dollars a year and the palestinians very little in comparision?

2) Are we done setting up permanent camp in Saudi?

3) How many decades do we plan on being in Iraq & Afganistan? (Psst, they know that Korea exists and that we've been there for several decades)...past actions speak louder than words

4) Are we done threatening Iran?

5) Fortunately we're done killing Iraqi civilians in large numbers now that the major standard military offensive is over...the extremists seem to be picking up that slack in the guerilla phase, which is not a calming factor no matter how you slice it...


:/


.

PS: I don't blame Bush or Blair for this attack, I blame our lack of shifting our ill advised foreign policies and primarily focusing only on the 'war' side of fixing things...


.that takes a lot more than one or two major world leaders to make happen, it takes congress, parliment and a TON of public opinion...

Im not from the US shit for brains, I dont listen to your government, so explain what you know that we all all dont, or shut the fuck up. You obviously know fuck all or you would explain yourself instead of making retarted posts on how others should learn as much as you

I live in a heavey muslim area in London, so yes unlike you I speak to them daily.

Ill answer your questions one at a time

1) Yes thats fucked up and the UK have been pushing the US on this point for the last 10 years

2) No your not done yet, you have a fucked up foreign policy, which although fucked up wouldnt want them to kill you less.

3) I guess untill either they kill you all, or the Arab nations kill their own terrorists, what ever comes first

4) No I think you want their oil to much, but this time when you invade, you will be alone, the UK wont be tagging along, that doesnt stop the fact that extremists want you dead

nice.. you're a stand up guy.

too bad the other ones won't simply answer this question because they know it will happen eventually. Countries who are not in the coalition will be attacked for various reasons that terrorists will make up. and maybe THEN people will understand better...

that and we are in Afghanastan looking for Osama.. no?

So you want me to write proof that they don't want everyone in the world dead? What exactly do you want me to prove? You want me to post proof that they want me dead or that they want everyone dead, white, black, american, candian, etc?

Could you post proof that they want everyone dead too? Myself and my family? I'm sure some of them want me dead but I'm sure some don't. It's called logic and I'm sorry I can't give any to yourself, the world seems to be all out.

I never said everyone in the world, just all non muslims and westerners, these are not mainstream muslims, these are fanatics, they dont think and believe like we do, they strap nail bombs to them selves and blow them selves up to get to there own fucked up version of paradise, they could not give two flying fucks if we were in Iraq or not

I have heard that there are a ton of muslims in the UK and France, must be fairly interesting to see the reactions of that population during times like this...My main experience with them comes from some encounters in LA growing up, and the few times I was deployed to their countries in both war and peacetime operations... I found most of them to be really just pissed at our middle east policies and the blatent disparity of our treatment of the palestinians vs israelis (not that I'd ever get into THAT chicken or the egg argument) lol...but it surely is lop-sided today, I doubt anyone in their right mind would argue that...


as for your reply to 4...I surely hope we don't 'liberate' Iran, although Kissenger thinks it's pretty much a done deal...and I'm not sure if I can disagree with his line of thinking...this is surely about oil but it also has some merit as a discussion of global security, what i think is HUGELY lacking in any current day standard political discussions is how to fix our fucked up foreign policies so that they do NOT have an argument to bitch about when they attack us...

ok, so we

1) Stop treating one more favorably in the Israeli/Palestinian area and if needed, back out of those negotiations entirely and hire the tibetan buddhists to do it...

2) Get out of Saudi and run our operations from welcoming governments in the region, or from a distance that's purely out of their neck of the woods (we do have a kick ass Air Force and Navy that can ship people over there fast as needed to do any required ass kicking)

3) Speed up the process of turning Iraq & Afganistan back over to their governments, run it from a distance if needed and just outsource the gun toating people to another UN country or one of their neighboring countries...

4) Bottom line, leave them the fuck alone, so the next time they attack us anywhere in the world, and we've 'left them alone and or treated them equally fairly' they have "ZERO" argument for attacking us OR RECRUITING new members to their cause...


take the wind out of their sails so to speak...


...and if they continue to fuckup after that, we proceed with Operation GLASS FACTORY


:)

Spot on. They want an Islamic world - or at least their version of it. Its a war of faith and belief. There is nothing more deadly than a man armed with these two things. Its also a war between two mutually exclusive cultures - Iraq, Afganistan, Israel/Palastine, Bush, Blair are just convenient banners which people shout at each other and mean jack shit...

..and I seem to recall 9/11 happened before the US invaded anyone...so to blame the west is arse about face..

The U.S need to stop blaming themselves for a hand full of fantic murderers, I have posted many times, that the US policy towards Israel and palastine is fucked up. But that doesnt change the fact, that these extremists believe in there own version of the Muslim faith and want all US, UK and western countries dead. these are not Muslims, but extremist murdering filth. The only way to deal with them is to hunt them down and kill them, just like Sadam did before we decided to invade.

The Iraq issue and the terorist issue are two different issues, the sooner the US population understands that the better for evetyone

Exactly, they won't be happy until there own fuckled up version of there faith is ruling the world. you cannot negotiate with people who dont think you have the right to live. If there is any U.S people or U.K people out there who dont yet understand this, you are in for a big shock. They want you dead. Like it or not, they wont be happy until you are dead.

This is a photo archive of what happened on 9/11.. This is proof that our gov will do anything to get its own agenda passed while working with so called terrorists to assist with that agenda.

Clear enough proof of this is that Bin Ladan was in the United States, at the Bush ranch, a short time before the 9/11 crap went down. Even though at that point he was still on the CIA watch list, he still came into America. Why? Because Bush and Bin are Buds. Bush owns stock in the Bin business, and bin owns stocks in the Bush business.. Extremists my ass.. It's all about oil, money, power, and control. They tell our guys to go kill these people, just like Bin tells his guys to go blow these people up.. Sheep being lead by the Shepards.

Are you saying that Afghanistan is the first country that the US invaded ???? :eek2

Amazing... a muslim friend said the same word for word ....

Bin Laden had everything, he was a millionaire, he gave it all up, to live in a mud hut and Kill Americans. Financialyy what had the multi millionaire gained now he lives in a mud hut?

I live with Muslims, I was with 6 tonight, trust me they hate these hahahahas as much, if not more than we do. They know that they wont be happy until the world is an Islamic state. Tonight my 6 muslim friends will I expect be in fear of non muslims who think, that they all think the same way.

Im telling you, make no mistake about this, especially if you are from the U.S or U.K these extremists want you dead. They wont rest until they are dead, or you are dead, thats a fact and the sooner you come to terms with is the better.

The U.S policy towards Palastine is fucked up, but that doesnt change the fact, that either way they would still want you dead tonight

I don't think he is chillin a mud hut. Most mud huts don't have electricity or recording/video editing equipment. I?m sure him and his millions and his minions are chillin in a nice place provided by his good?ol pal Bush. A nice safe place to lead the flock while our boys hunt around for a guy they will never find.

You think living in a mud hut with millions of dollars of prize money on your head and the chance that when the first US soldier finds you, you are dead is better than being a millionaire playboy in Saudi?

I know where I would rather be

There has ALREADY been attacks on other places. Like Bali and in Marocco. These are TERRORISTS and not military. They attack SOFT TARGETS and SYMBOLIC places like a tourist area.

Only if you shut your mouth and admit you were wrong about supprting Bush and his WMD in Iraq.......oh wait......... you won't shut your mouth regardless of how wrong you were.

BTW Criminals(terrorists) will continue to kill innocent people for whatever insane (religous) reason regardless of how many innocent people we kill in retaliation(ie: IRAQ).


Blah Blah Blah AlexG is GAy Blah Blah Blah(not that I have anything against gay people)

Oh they will get around 2 all of them, Canada, Germany, France and many more..

They just plain don't like the way we or they live.. They are fanatic's, with no hope in life.

When France gets it, they MIGHT use the head scarf issue or may not. France will get hit, I really thought it would be them this time..

Anyone that lives in the west better wake the fuck up, those mother fuckers want your ass DEAD. And if you don't believe it you are a fucking moron.

Fucking exactly.

These hahahahas wont be happy untill they or you are dead. Please remember these hahahahas blow themselves up to hurt the passers by, they couldnt give a fuck what happens as long as they die trying

You are mistaken if you think this is about oil.. They don't just want to be left alone... They want 2 convert you, or kill you and you can bank on that.

I guess you could blame Bush for shit 25 years ago:1orglaugh , because that's how long this last rash of terrorism has been going on.

Technically I think the last country the US invaded was Greneda (could be wrong though)...actually as a rule the US is not really that high in the invading stakes!

...but for he purposes of the discussion I sort of discounted Grenada..unless some conspiracy nut wants to draw a link between Greneda and 9/11...me I am going with the 'no-link' theory! Hence the current round of troubles was pretty much initiated by 9/11...and no I don't want endless arguments of 'but 9/11 was triggered by blah, blah'

Oh Kuwait in the last Gulf war was not legally classed as an invasion, neither was Vietnam or Korea and in WWII everyone was invading everyone else so everyone is off the hook except the Germans and the Japanese!!

I was wrong when I thought Iraq had WMD. There were no WMD found.

But I supported the war (and still do) for other reasons as well which I stated today in another thread I think.

I never said we should kill innocent people, so please stfu and don't put words in my mouth.

nice to know some people are down with reality...

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh oky dokey

That is just as bad as when Hitler said ALL the Jews were bad and wanted to control everybody else.
Why can't you see the correlation between Hitler's thinking and yours, AlexG?

You think ALL Muslims are bad and want kill/assimilate everybody else.