DWB

Did you take Taurine with it?

Also... did you do 2 weeks on 2 weeks off? or how did you cycle it?

Thanks,
DWB

BobG

Yeah, I used it. My advise is dont do it. It's gonna fuck up your body and brains chemistry and make you stupider than you already are for considering it. Most guys use roids to get buffed up to hopefully get more pussy when infact, hot chicks hate juiced up muscle head egomaniacs who use nasty chemicals that eventually lead them to low self esteme and man tits.

VicD

use your brains, work out natural!

i'am a fitnessinstructor, by the way

Azlord

Clen isn't really a true steroid. It's more like ripped fuel with some steroid properties. I have never done it, but a friend loves the shit. But you have to be very careful. Speeds up your heart rate just like ripped fuel, and he cycled it 2 weeks on 2 weeks off 2 weeks on month off.

if you want to get trim, clen is good, if you want to get huge, or add muscle mass, then I wouldn't fuck with it...

BobG

Its an illegal steroid. Have some pride and do it naturally. Spend the money on the best personal trainer you can find and have him kick your ass. You'll feel much better about your accomplishments and yourself in the long run. And you'll end up getting more pussy than you will if you go the steroid route

Azlord

I think it is classified as a thermogenic.

wjxxx

1 nandrolone decanoate
2 Anavar
other shit is too dangerous (as far as I know)

Pleasurepays

basically, there are two competing views of how it is best to use it. one is that you can/should use it non-stop for 12 weeks or more and that it really only starts to work with maximum effectiveness at week 8. one is that you should cycle on and off every 2 weeks using it for a maxium of 6 - this info is based mostly on animal studies (horses/rats) which i have concluded do not apply to humans in any way.

there is a book called The Clen Handbook which is thought to the be bible for Clen - there are many who claim its completely wrong since it is drawing most of its data and conclusions from animal studies which do not apply to humans due to the fact that also use insane dosing in most of those studies and that animals have different and extra cell receptors and it works very differently in animals and humans.

register at steroid.com and search the forums for "hooker + clen" (hooker being a very well educated poster who writes the steroid profiles)

you should take taurine and benadryl every 3rd week (or some similar antihistamine) as your beta 2 receptors get desensitized.

you should drink a lot of water as dehydration and the resulting cramps are a possibility and common complaint.

it works no matter how you use it if your diet is reasonable. it works much better with T3. (be aware that t3 is not something to be toyed with if you don't know anything about it)

some believe clen causes some growth/strength gains... and technically it is classified as a steroid due to how it acts in the body. most say it causes no real growth/strength gains other than the typical increased performance you would experience on anything that jacks your metabolism up.

thats all i know.

VicD

Pleasurepays

http://www.steroid-encyclopaedia.com...ad.php?t=40326

by hooker

Let me just start by saying that this is the single most misunderstood compound in use for athletics and bodybuilding today. Most of the information out there is ½ truths and conjecture. Ok?having said that, I?m going to make an effort to dispel some myths and give everyone a better understanding of Clen.

First, lets plow quickly through some of the basics:

Clenbuterol (Clen) is a beta-2 agonist/antagonist bronchodialator. What this means, is that it stimulates your beta-2 receptors. And this in turn stimulates you (clen has stimulant effects which will make you feel?.well?stimulated). All of this serves to increase your body temperature a bit, increase your basal metabolic rate, and decrease your appetite (Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 1994 Jun;18(6):429-33.). Clen also can decrease insulin sensitivity (Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2002 Jul;283(1):E146-53.).

Clen is a very effective repartitioning agent, and this is what it?s most often used for. What this means is that it will increase your ratio of Fat Free Mass (FFM) to Fat Mass, by decreasing your Fat and possibly increasing your FFM (J Appl Physiol. 2001 Nov;91(5):2064-70). Want me to quantify that a bit? In one study, horses given a reasonable dose of clen (slightly over 1mcg/lb) and excercised for 20mins, 3x a week ( I suppose they were Mentzer disciples) had significant decreases in %fat (-17.6%) and fat mass (-19.5%) at week 2, which was similar to Clen given to horses who didn?t excretes; however, the exercised group had a different FFM response, which significantly increased (+4.4%) at week 6. Week 6! Clen and clen + exercise produce roughly the same results for the first 2 weeks! Remember the old 2 weeks-on/2weeks-off schedule? It?s officially dead and buried. If you want the quasi-anabolic effect from the clen, it?ll take more than 2weeks on (6 weeks apparently). And in fact, since clen alone is similar to clen + exercise for those first 2 weeks...why would you ever use a 2on/2off protocol? Keep in mind that animal responses to beta-agonist/antagonists differ a bit from ours?but you get the picture. 2on/2off? Ha ha...

Clen has a biphastic elimination, which means that it is technically reduced in your body in 2 different stages. This isn?t particularly important, as a recent study has shown that for most intents and purposes, clen concentrations in the body decline with a ½ life (approximately) equivalent to 7-9.2hours and again up to as much as 35 hours later(J Anal Toxicol. 2001 May-Jun;25(4):280-7. and J Vet Pharmacol Ther. 2004 Apr;27(2):71-7. and J Pharmacobiodyn. 1985 May;8(5):385-91. ). If you?re really interested, though, clen technically declines biphastically at 10 and then 36 hours. But really, in our little world, where we use ½ life to tell us when to take our next dose, who the hell is going to take clen, then a dose 10 hours later, then a dose 36 hours later. We?ll stick with the earlier 7-9 hour ½ life for dosing purposes, and take our clen every 3.5-4.5 hours that we?re awake, stopping early enough to still be able to get to bed. Clen can, in some people, cause insomnia (and as with all stimulants, can cause anxiety in some).

Clenbuterol can also cause a down-regulation in testicular androgen receptors and in pulmonary, cardiac and central nervous system beta-adrenergic receptors(J Anim Physiol Anim Nutr (Berl). 2004 Apr;88(3-4):94-100.)?possibly making steroids less effective while you are on clen, but definitely making clen less effective as time goes on and you keep taking it. To counteract this, you can take some ketotifen or periactim every 3rd or 4th week that you remain on clen. Both of these are prescription anti-histimines, so they?ll make you drowsy (take before bedtime). Basically, the way both of these work is to reduce beta-2 receptor activity.

A lot of people claim that clen is quite anti-catabolic and/or anabolic. This hasn?t been confirmed in human studies (Ann Pharmacother. 1995 Jan;29(1):75-7.). And the doses given to the animals in these studies where clen is shown to be very anti catabolic or highly anabolic are so absurdly high that no human could ever take them (1mg/kg of bodyweight and higher). The best you can hope for is the very mild anabolic effects I cited earlier.

Oh yeah?I guess I should get around to the proper dosing of clen. My recommendations are the same for both men and women. You?ll need to take 20mcgs upon rising, and then repeat that same dose again later in the day, and then once again in that day (if you find you can tolerate the effects). So you?ll start with 20mcgs, and then repeat that dose 2 more times that same day if you can tolerate it (side effects will determine this?hand shaking, sweating, etc?classic stimulant sides). Then you can start increasing the dose gradually. Personally, I wouldn?t work my way up to more than 200mcg/day. 60-120mcg/day is an average dose.

Also, bear in mind that clen isn?t great for your heart, and can cause some issues there (enlargement of ventricles, etc?) but most studies showing clen to cause heart problems are with animals, and even though the dosing is similar to what humans take (in some studies) it?s important to remember that animals have more beta-2 receptors and they cause certain event chains that humans? beta-2 receptors may not. Clen causes cardiac hypertrophy to some degree, in some cases. Again though, many studies showing more significant heart problems are with mg dosing. We humans take clen in mcg doses.

If we want to duplicate the ?therapeutic? levels of clen in the more conservative studies, we?d be taking just over 1mcg/lb of bodyweight. I?d suggest a bit less, though.

Performance issues with clen also vary. Some studies show reduced exercise (cardiovascular) performance with clen (Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2002 Dec;34(12):1976-85.), while some show that clen can alleviate exercise induced asthma (Respiration. 1987;51(3):205-13.)! Sometimes you feel like a nut?sometimes you don?t, I guess. What this means, to me, is that you?ll need to figure out how clen affects your performance individually.

Which brings me to the issue of cramps while on clen. I don?t get them. My friends don?t get them. Most of us are athletes who use clen during the season as well as the off season, and one of my friends even claims that it gives him more ?wind? (cardiovascular stamina). Take on enough water every day and you should be fine. If you?re really concerned, you can take some extra minerals and taurine, since clen depletes taurine (Adv Exp Med Biol. 1996;403:233-45) as do most if not all beta-agonists. I don?t take anything more than my usual vitamins and minerals.

Well?there it is?pretty much all I know about clen. I hope this answers some questions and clears up some misconceptions.

Hooker also states if you want to just stay on Clenbuterol, you can take 50mgs of Benadryl every night for a week (say...1 week per month), and you'll keep your beta-2 receptors fresh. Instead of coming off the clen, that is.

BigRod

Wow now thats info!

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Pleasurepays

the other school of thought on clen from The Clen Handbook:

Clenbuterol handbook
CLENBUTERAL FAQ: EVERYTHING YOU
NEEDED TO KNOW ABOUT CLENBUTEROL
by BigAndy69

What is Clenbuterol?

Clenbuterol is a beta-2 agonist and is used in many countries as a broncodilator
for the treatment of asthma. Because of it's long half life, clenbuterol is not
FDA approved for medical use. It is a central nervous system stimulant and acts
like adrenaline. It shares many of the same side effects as other CNS stimulants
like ephedrine. Contrary to popular belief, Clenbuterol has a half life of 35
hours and not 48 hours.

Dosing and Cycling

Clenbuterol comes in 20mcg tablets, although it is also available in syrup, pump
and injectable form. It's also available as a powder in some areas. Doses are
very dependent on how well the user responds to the side effects, but somewhere
in the range of 4-8 tablets per day for men and 2-4 tablets a day for women is
most common. Clenbuterol loses its thermogenic effects after around 8 weeks when
body temperature drops back to normal. Its anabolic/anti-catabolic properties
fade away at around the 18 day mark. Taking the long half life into
consideration, the most effective way of cycling clen is 2 weeks on/ 2 weeks off
for no more than 12 weeks. Ephedrine or Yohimbine can be used in the off weeks.

Clenbuterol vs Ephedrine vs DNP

Ephedrine will raise metabolic levels by about 2-3 percent and 200mg of DNP
raises metabolic levels by about 30 percent. Clenbuterol raises metabolic levels
about 10 percent and it can raise body temperature several degrees.

DNP is by far the most effective fat burner but many people will never use it
because of the risks associated with it. It also offers no anti-catabolic
benefit. Although it does have anti-catabolic effect, ephedrine's short
half-life prevents it from being all that effective.

As far as side effects, Clenbuterol's are certainly milder than DNP's, and some
would even say milder than an ECA stack. There is no ECA-style crash on
Clenbuterol and many users find it easier on the prostate and sex drive. This
may in part be due to the fact that Clen is generally used for only 2 weeks at a
time.

Side effects

NAUSEA
NERVOUSNESS
DIZZINESS
DROWSINESS
DRY MOUTH
FACIAL FLUSHING
HEADACHE
HEARTBURN
INCREASED BLOOD PRESSURE
INCREASED SWEATING
INSOMNIA
LIGHTHEADEDNESS
MUSCLE CRAMPS
TREMORS
VOMITING
CHEST PAIN

The most significant side effects are muscle cramps, nervousness, headaches, and
increased blood pressure.

Muscle cramps can be avoided by drinking 1.5-2 gallons of water and consuming
bananas and oranges or supplementing with potassium tablets at 200-400mg a
day taken before bed on an empty stomach. Taurine at 3-5grams is a necessity in
minimizing cramps.

Headaches can easily be avoided with Tylenol Extra Strength taking at the first
signs of a headache.

Common Uses

Post-Cycle Therapy: Clen is used post cycle to aid in recovery. It allows the
user to continue eating large amounts of food, without worrying about adding
body fat. It also helps the user maintain more of his strength as well as his
intensity in the gym. Diet: Roughly the same as on cycle.

Fat loss: The most popular use for Clen, it also increases muscle hardness,
vascularity, strength and size on a caloric deficit. For the most significant
fat loss, Clen can be stacked with T3. Diet: A high protein(1.5g per lb of
bodyweight), moderate carb(0.5g to 1g per lb of bodyweight), low fat diet(0.25g
per lb of bodyweight) seems to work best with Clen.

Alternative to Steroids: Clenbuterol has mild steroid-like properties and can be
used by non-AS using bodybuilder to increase LBM as well as strength and muscle
hardness. Diet: A moderate carb, high protein, moderate fat diet work well.

Stimulant/Performance Enhancement: It can be used as a stimulant, but an ECA
stack may be a better choice because of it's much shorter half-life. Diet: To
take full advantage of the stimulatory effects of Clen, carbohydrates must be
included in the diet. Ketogenic diets do not work well in this case.

Precautions: Is Clen for you?

The same precautions that apply to Ephedrine must be applied to Clen, although
some people find ECA stacks are harsher than Clen. It should not be stacked
with other CNS stimulants such as Ephedrine and Yohimbine. These combinations
are unnecessary and potentially dangerous. Caffeine can be used in moderation
before a workout for an extra quick. burst of energy.

A word on Ketotifen

Ketotifen is safe antihistamine used extensively some European countries to
treat asthma and allergies. It can up regulate beta-2-receptors that Clen down
regulates. Basically, it allows users to extend their use of Clen for 6-8 weeks
at a time. 2-3mg a day is ideal, 10mg as found in "superclen" can make users
extremely drowsy. It also increases the effectiveness of Clen so doses must be
adjusted accordingly. The downfall of this drug is its ability to induce
extreme hunger is some people, which is not a desirable state to be in when
dieting.

Cycling Clenbuterol

Most users that report bad side effects and discontinue use are those who use
high doses right at the start of the cycle. The worst side effects occur within
the first 3-4 days of use.

A first time user should not exceed 40mcg the first day. Increase by one tab
until the side effects are not tolerable

Example of a first cycle:

Day1: 20mcg
Day2: 40mcg
Day3: 60mcg
Day4: 80mcg
Day5: 80mcg(Note: Increase the dose only when the side effects are tolerable)
Day6-Day12: 100mcg
Day13: 80 mcg (Tapering is not necessary, but it helps some users get back to
normal gradually)
Day14: 60 mcgs
Day15: off
Day16: off
Day 17: ECA/ NYC stack

Example of a second cycle:

Day1: 60mcg
Day2: 80mcg
Day3: 80mcg
Day4: 100mcg
Day5: 100mcg
Day6-Day12: 120mcg
Day13: 100 mcg
Day14: 80 mcgs
Day15: off
Day16: off
Day 17: ECA/ NYC stack

What else do I need to know?

Taurine MUST be used with Clen at 3-5g daily. Clenbuterol depletes taurine
levels in the liver which stops the conversion of T4 to T3 in the liver.
Taurine allows the user to avoid the dreaded rebound effect and painful muscle
cramps. It's a must with Clen.

Clenbuterol should not be taken too close to a workout. It can interfere with
your breathing and complete ruin your workout. When doing cardio, it's
advisable to stay at a consistent pace and avoid HIIT style routines.

Do not take Clen Past 4pm and drink plenty of water; 1.5-2 gallons a day

FreeHugeMovies

What is this "T3" they are referring to?

Pleasurepays

Cytomel - a sythetic thyroid hormone

xNetworx

Clenbuterol is a weak substance compared to some of the shit out there. Now this is some crazy shit:
The substance; 2, 4-Dinitrophenol has many other brand names such as, 1 Hydroxy-2,4-dinitrophenol, Solfo Black, Nitrophen, Aldifen, and Chemox are just a few and is among many things, a metabolic stimulant. That is it's popularity here in our world, it burns fat like no other. Let me just tell you of it's other uses before I continue. First, it is a toxic dye, chemically related to Trinitrophenol (Picric Acid), second, it is found in insecticides, wood preservatives, herbicides, explosives, and is also a hazardous material. Third, it is used in science to couple or attach to DNA molecules. All of this should tell you that it is not a run-of-the-mill metabolic stimulant, like Clenbuterol or Triacana or Ephedrine or any other for that matter. Here is DNP's tox faq's from the international chemical safety cards to you give an idea of what it is considered to be; Combustible. Gives off irritating or toxic fumes (or gases) in a fire. Risk of fire and explosion. DO NOT expose to friction or shock. MAY BE ABSORBED! Redness. Roughness. Yellow staining on the skin. PHYSICAL STATE; APPEARANCE: YELLOW CRYSTALS ROUTES OF EXPOSURE: The substance can be absorbed into the body by inhalation, through the skin and by ingestion. PHYSICAL DANGERS: Dust explosion possible if in powder or granular form, mixed with air. INHALATION RISK: Evaporation at 20°C is negligible; a harmful concentration of airborne particles can, however, be reached quickly. CHEMICAL DANGERS: May explosively decompose on shock, friction, or concussion. May explode on heating. Shock-sensitive compounds are formed with alkalis, ammonia and most metals. The substance decomposes on heating producing toxic gases including nitrogen oxides. EFFECT OF SHORT-TERM EXPOSURE: The substance may cause effects on metabolism, resulting in very high body temperature. Exposure may result in death. EFFECTS OF LONG TERM OR REPEATED EXPOSURE: Repeated or prolonged contact with skin may cause dermatitis. The substance may have effects on the peripheral nervous system. The substance may have effects on the eyes, resulting in cataracts. Boiling point: sublimes °C, Melting point: 112°C, Relative density (water = 1): 1.68. Solubility in water, g/100 ml at 54.5°C: 0.14. Relative vapor density (air = 1): 6.36. This product is handled and shipped in a 15% solution of water, making it a paste, so that it will not explode due to shock or friction.

DNP is an uncoupling agent that inhibits the flow of electrons and the pumping of H+ ions for ATP synthesis. Fifty years ago it was used for weight loss, however, in 1938 the FDA removed it from the counter, as it caused cataracts and even sometimes death. If electron transport does not produce ATP, then much more sugar must be metabolized for energy needs. Very low production of ATP would be lethal. In oxidative phosphorylation, the flow of electrons from NADH (the reduced form of NAD+, oxidized from NAD. This enzyme is important in accepting electrons in the course of metabolic reactions. When NAD+ gives up it's electron, it is converted to it's reduced form NADH) and FADH2 (the reduced form of FAD) to oxygen results in the pumping of H+ from the matrix to the inner membrane space of the mitochondria. This gradient of H+ can produce ATP by flowing through ATP synthetase in the mitochondrial inner membrane. Dinitrophenol disrupts the H+ gradient reducing ATP synthesis. Under these conditions, much of the food that we eat could not be used for ATP synthesis and we lose weight. However, too much inhibitor and we could make too little ATP for life. The difference between weight loss and death is only a small concentration change in dinitrophenol, making the drug dangerous. Simply put, this means that while eating your normal diet, you will have somewhere between 20% and 40% reduction of calories.

You may now be wondering just what kind of dose would be effective, but not harmful. A dose of 2mg/kg/day (or two mgs per kg of body weight per day) would be an effective dose, causing the loss of about 5 to 10 pounds in a 10 to 14 day period, maybe less. So, a person weighing 200 lbs would weigh about 91 kgs, so 2mgs per kg of body weight would be the equivalent of 182 mgs of DNP per day, but since it typically comes in 200 mg capsules, you would take one cap per day. Since DNP has this inhibiting effect, glycolosis is inhibited as well, causing a diabetic effect due to the conversion of glucose without insulin, so you may have heard that people take insulin with DNP. This will counter act the symptoms of lethargy and lack of energy due to DNP's use.

Finding DNP, this may be a little difficult as there are only two manufacturers of it. Sigma and Springfield scientific, though they do not generally sell to the public, it is still available. If you cannot find someone with capsules, you may try to get some bulk (somewhere around $20.00 - $30.00 per lb I think), but since this is considered a hazardous material, it cannot be conveniently or inconspicuously shipped (which for consumption is a felony), however, it is possible. However, to get use of the bulk/raw form, you will need to make your own capsules, which is a meticulous process

xNetworx

It affects your thyroid

Pleasurepays

actually... this is the last step beyond Clen/T3

DNP however can quickly kill you.

but people have told me they have lost up to 7-10 pounds of fat a week.

DWB

Pleasurepays,
Great post!!! Thanks.

I've been reading everything I can get my hands on. My good friend wrestles for WWE and he is the one who told me about it. He says he does it when he needs to lean out for a photoshoot or major event where he has to look cut. He also does a shit load of muscle building roids (which I am not interested in), I'm only interested in leaning out a little faster than I normally can.

Just asking around to others who may have done a cycle on it. See what they have to say about it. I have yet to find any data for negative long term affects. Everything seems to be short term.

Thanks again!

Pleasurepays

beyond the typical hysteria by the misinformed, i can say that the body does not get even a fraction of the credit it deserves for its resilience.

people can take the most powerful anabolics and most liver toxic - like Anadrol for example and be on the verge of liver failure and death. once they go off, liver values typically return to normal in less time than they were using the drug. not saying its ok to push that far, just using it as an example of how strong your body is at rebounding no matter what you do to it.

i have never heard of negative short term side effects from Clen. but - side effects also vary from person to person. as you know, almost every medication warns of a ton of side effects, yet few actually experience them. but you should be aware of the possibilities and the risks.

i may or may not be using clen/t3 right now ;)

if i was, i might be losing about 2 pounds of bodyfat per week with a shitty diet, lifting heavy 4 days a week and doing 40 mins of cardio before breakfast.

DWB

With a shit diet... Just think if you were eating lean.

TTiger

so..im training 2-3 days a week for 1 years now (30 minute cardio 1 hour to 1h30 muscle training each time) i can see ive more muscle and a better shape and i have lose some fats.
but im still have this little belly (im 37) id like to lose this extra belly in a very short time im thinking about doing a t3-clen 2 week cycle is it appropriate??
im bumping this treads doing a clenbuterol search :-)

__________________

Major (Tom)

What ever happened to the good old days of cyp, anadrol and the last 3 weeks a 50 cc jug of ganabol.

And also asking complete strangers how much they bench.
ohh the memories lol
Duke

__________________
My mother said, to get things done
You'd better not mess with Major Tom

EscortBiz

ok well the stack pros use in these days for mass is

test (some cyp some prop some suspension or all of em some sust 250)
deca or eq
tren
GH
Slin (HumR)
Then usually some oral like dbol or abombs

to cut they use clen and right before the show they use aldactone or lasix or any other powerful diuretic, mind you they will stop the bulking style cycle as well because those orals and test will make you hold water, so they will cycle winny or var or both the tren don't make you hold water so thats popular now

seriously thou the above is extreme its not normal hence those distended guts etc

now if you decided to do it noone will stop you, but do your homework man in the recent years many have died or needed transplants yeah they blame it on eating too much red meat or mixing roids and party drugs but please taking 10iu's of slin twice a day and 8-14iu's of gh and all the other crap cant be good

__________________

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depending on how much u want to vanish mesothearpy does some real wonders and way safer then drugs

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CuriousToyBoy

I considered it, but good old fashioned following some simple rules and then after changing the metabolism getting back to some training did it for me.

And continues to.

Beside, I do enough drugs.... ;-)

Ha ha

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blonda80

I take Clenbuterol and I shake like hell, I have headeches and many other shits. Stupid pills. Someone give it to me telling it was for lossing weight but I wish to lose weight not to kill myself on my money ... so I am not taking anymore...

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FreeHugeMovies

Those are some hard roids there Duke baby

DaddyHalbucks

I wouldn't touch that shit!

__________________
Boner Money

WarChild

Yes I have done it during a cutting cycle.

Built up to 80mcg and then back down again. It didn't make me very nervous or effect my sleep too badly. It raised my heart beat about 10 beats per minute and this was reflected during cardio as well. Breathing was improved and I never got winded even after long cardio training sessions.

If you build up slowly, you'll know if it's going to be a problem for you. If you're too nervous, jumpy, anxious or get headaches at 80mcg, then just back down to 60.

As for the "oh don't do it" crowd, I assure you most of you don't really know what you're talking about. It's okay for you to believe the hype, but just keep your mouth shut about it, please. Clenbuterol is a drug that is still used to treat Asthma, especially exercise induced Asthma. At one point, some 50% of US Olympic athletes were being treated by Doctors for their "Astma" with Clenbuterol.

__________________
.

WarChild

When you go from having a large body fat percentage, say 20-25%, it's so easy to reduce to the mid teens naturally that there IS no need to be doing any Clenbuterol. Going from 12% bodfat down to 10%, for instance, without sacrificing too much muscle is more then situation where it would be used, IMO.

__________________
.