mardigras

Check out CSPAN now, looks like it is going to pass Congress (again) but this time observers think it will also pass in the Senate. They are taking up this issue rather than working on important things such as the budget.

This will be a constitutional ammendment making any desecration or burning of the flag a prohibited activity.

If one takes words for what they say, desecration includes any marking on the flag... postage stamps with the flag & writing on it are technically desecration, as well as clothing made out of the flag.

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After Shock Media

Even if it passed the supreme court would kill it and the ACLU would be all over it.

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VirtuMike

A VAST majority of the people in America have no idea how to treat a flag to begin with. When the fad started in 2001, I saw more flags hung the wrong way than hung the proper way. People leave them out overnight and in rain. Nobody cares. They want to look trendy.

I asked a soldier once why his uniform had a flag on his right sleeve with the stars on the upper right. He said "The stars charge into battle."

That's just not right. The stars do not charge into battle. The position of honor of the stars is always in the upper left. I don't know when they made this change to the uniform, but improper display of the flag is a sign of distress.

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Manga1

What happens if you are a European who is not 2257 compliant and you descrate the flag??

GatorB

The SC can not do anything about a Constitutional Amendment. If both Houses of Congress pass it and 38 of the 50 states do then it's the law.

Other countries with this type law

USSR
Nazi Germany
China
N Korea
Cuba
Iraq( under Saddam )

Nice company we are keeping.

mardigras

Not to mention the ones who left them hanging off their cars until they were shreds

Important point that deserves repeating

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mardigras

Oh your ass is grass, buddy, and King George is the lawnmower

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directfiesta

Waiting for TheKing to come dribble a few words here ....


BTW, it only a fucking piece of cloth ... Maybe if you didn't wave it for every fucking Wal-Mart opening, people would have more respect for it.
Your flag is like a hoe ... worned out.

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Manowar

i roll cigars with flags. i love it.

sickkittens

Actually, I heard something to that effect on a show once.

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Dirty F

Only in America.

GatorB

I also find it ironic that when people living in communist countries in the 1980's where risking their lives by burning thier home countries flags in protest of those governments these same anti-flag burning people were APPLAUDING them for bravely expressing their discontent for their governments. I looked up HYPOCRISY in the dictionary and it said "See Washington DC"

wedouglas

RuthB

I don't know.. perhaps I'm misreading this thread, or perhaps it's cos I'm not American.

It sounds like you guys are against this coming to pass as law.

If so - why? I mean - if people are burning the US flag, isn't that a bad thing - hasn't that caused problems, especially of late?

I guess the problem with it is that it encroaches on your 'freedom'?

Unfortunately to be able to protect against some things, one has to sacrifice certain freedoms/rights in order to make it happen.

Whether this is worth it or not, I don't know - personally I think it's wrong to burn your own countries flag, but that's just my opinion.

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tonkagunner

the bible is next

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After Shock Media

I am against it because I feel that it is an encroachment on peoples freedom of expression.
I also "think" it is wrong but I would never agree to make it illegal.
I am not personally of the mindset that anyone should have to sacrifice any of their freedoms/rights to feel more comfortable or to have the illusions of protection.

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mardigras

As GatorB said, it comes down to the states.
One report I heard earlier said that a poll 80% of the public was against flag desecration (I would love to see an accompanying poll of the same people how many of them know exactly what desecration is). Interestingly though, according to this article 63% of the public opposes a constitutional ammendment.

Gene Taylor (congressman from MS) got appluse numerous times this morning trying to get in much objected to jabs in about the absurdity of congress taking on this matter while there were so many pressing budget issues pushed to the back burner.

You guys away from a TV can check in on the antics anytime at
http://www.cspan.org

BTW, since this thread started the ammendment passed in congress.

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darksoft

Burning the flag is not freedom of expression. It shows contempt for your country. If you hate your country so much, leave. Otherwise, shut your fuckholes and do something constructive to change it.

GatorB

Listen ALL speech that is in disagreement withthe majoity "causes problems" so we should ban it?

Yep.

WRONG. People in this country have been burning the flag for over 200 years. The USA is the most powerful nation on earth EVER. So what harm has it done? NONE.

I don't belive in the KKK or Neo Nazis or even Christians but I believe in their right to feel and think and say what they want.

The day the flag needs protecting is the day we are no longer free. How insecure are you that the thought of someone burning the flag bother you so? Grow some balls. By the way accoridng the the rules the PROPER way of disposing of an old falg is by BURNING it.

NetRodent

Interestingly the proper way to dispose on an unservicable flag, according to US LAW, is by burning it:

(k) The Flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/us...8----000-.html

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"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
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After Shock Media

con·tempt
n.
The feeling or attitude of regarding someone or something as inferior, base, or worthless; scorn.
The state of being despised or dishonored; disgrace.
Open disrespect or willful disobedience of the authority of a court of law or legislative body.


Seems like an expression to me.

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

I've burned a few flags.

It felt very liberating. Why?
Because you know that the flag and the principals it stands for now are corrupt at the core. NO faith in the leadership and loosing faith in the system.

Once you know the flag has become nothing more than a moniker to keep unrest contained the flag looses it's luster.

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TheSaint

Constitutional ammednments are not subject to review by the supreme court or the ACLU.

This particular ammendment is of little import, whether it passes or not, doesn't really matter to me.

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darksoft

Done properly, not running around with it on fire or burning it at "demonstrations". Here's your clue-pon.

After Shock Media

I relized this after I posted. For some reason my brain just registered congress passing a new law.

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Jayde

I don't think anyone should desecrate the flag. But I don't think that they should be passing an amendment against it either. Why should people not naturally have pride in their flag and their country to not want to do that to their flag? Why do they need an amendment to tell them they can't do that? I think passing an amendment encroaches on the First amendment rights. If they can modify the First amendment by passing another amendment than pretty soon the First amendment will lose it's power to mean anything.
I hope that made sense.

Jayde

mardigras

Your hearing is perfect

One of the principles of our constitution says Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech. This is just that. I wouldn't burn the flag and I do look down on those who would, but I would never want a law taking away their right to do so anymore than I would want the law to take away the rights of the hate-filled (so called Reverand) Fred Phelps to spew his hateful biggotry via his vile website www.godhatesfags.com

Things are getting pretty messy.
George Bush was serious as hell when he said, "There ought to be limits to freedom."

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darksoft

Contrary to popular disbleief, GW did not create the flag nor is he responsible, good or bad, for what it stands for. What the flag stands for is so much more than the current administration, love it or not.

The fact that you can't see beyond that speaks volumes for your upbringing and moral fiber.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

What more proof of freedom does one need when they are free burning there own flag?

Answer that and you can burn flags to.

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GatorB

Sure it is morn. Is BURNING the flag is OK for disposing of an old flag then why can't a protester burn one? What is the difference? I'll tell you. One is being used as an EXPRESSION of his/her discontentment of the government.

And you call for leaving the USA if you don't like the way it's being ran is moronic. Have you even READ the Constitution? We do NOT have to like the way the government is being and run and we have the RIGHT to express that WITHOUT having to leave it. fact is YOUR attitude make sit 10X more likely I would actually burn one in your presence just to piss you off.

darksoft

Please continue to amuse us with your stupidity. I see it encomapsses many topics now...

mardigras

I can't see beyond removal of rights the flag stands for.

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darksoft

It would be the last thing you did in front of me, I can assure you.

Whining and pissing like a bunch of pussies does absolutely nothing for your cause. How about doing something constructive INSTEAD of whining and pissing? Oh, but that would actually be like having to back up your whining and pissing.

You aren't whining and pissing about the problem, you ARE the problem.

GatorB

The fact you are against freedom and anyone who is against letting the government do whatever it pleases shows us YOU have no morals. And actually going against the Constitution is actually treason and is punishable by DEATH. So really according to the rules you could and maybe should be shot, hung or whatwever.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

GatorB we also have the right to defend ourselves from the government.
Don't forget that part.

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GatorB

I assure you that if you did anything to me then you will get anal raped in prison. You see ASSAULT or MURDER is in fact ILLEGAL. The fact you'd support those and not freedom shows your true moral fiber.

GatorB

We do? Better alert darksoft.

CE_BigB

Actually, the proper way to dispose of an American Flag is to burn it.
It is usually done with a small ceremony, when the flag as become tattered and worn.

note.. I said dispose... not desecrate...

This is one law we can do without... This is self policed... American citizens can handle this on our own...
After all.. <Big B as Mr T> I Pity da Foo' I see Burnin a Flag </Mr T>

Big B
CECash.com

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GatorB

You now you'd think that if ths was REALLY an important issue the founding fathers would have put it in the Constitution in the first place. It's not like FLAGS and FIRE didn't exist back then.

darksoft

Maybe they were too busy DOING instead of WHINING?

GatorB

And..........??????? Only one WHINNING is YOU. God forbid somene disagrees with you or they hould move out of the US or you will kill them.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Darksoft stop trolling.

Your lame, and your not to good at it.

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Rich

I'd say that's definitely the largest problem facing the country right now. Thank God they're spending time working on it.

darksoft

However, I know which "you're" and "too" to use.


Zzzzzzzizzzzz! Nabbed another....

GatorB

Yes I mean high gas prices, a crappy economy, companies closing and moving overseas while Americans lose their jobs, CEOs stealing money out of workers 401Ks and leaving them with NOTHING, rampant illegal immegration, health care crisis, eviromental issues, Social security etc. But hey let's talk about the 6 to 8 flag burnings that happen per year. My or my how will America survive it's flag being burned?

Gawdy

Wow, Im glad that American Goverment has nothing more important to do. Well done guys

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pornguy

I thought that it was already illegal to burn a US flag, or anything else.

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Matt 26z

It is possible that in 150 years American's may feel a compelling reason to take to the streets and burn US flags in a great protest of the federal government.

We today here in 2005 don't want those people to come thinking of us as boneheads who passed a dumb law which is then getting them arrested for standing up for their beliefs.

AmateurFlix

But would it be illegal to hold a torch to a flag made of flame resistant cloth? It wouldn't actually be burning...

Selling flame resistant flags to protestors who want to look like they're doing something without getting nabbed by the man. I see opportunity ;)

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Rich

Oh God it's going to take 150 years for people to wake up down there? Fuck, the rest of the world was hoping it would happen much sooner. How many generations of Bush's have to be President and how many foreign children have to be murdered in your name before you realize you don't live in a free democracy?