Any Canadian webmaster Paying GST or PST - GoFuckYourself.com

RegUser · 04-25-2005, 05:37 PM

If yes then how do you do it for website subscriptions ?
Is it even required?
PLease advise me

Tango · 04-25-2005, 05:38 PM

I don't know for sure - but I would put $ on it that only 1 or 2 did if any

WiredGuy · 04-25-2005, 05:40 PM

Are you a webmaster or paysite operator?
WG

ronaldo · 04-25-2005, 05:43 PM

Hire someone who knows the GST laws IMMEDIATELY!

As a paysite owner, you have to collect GST on any subscriptions you sell that are purchased from Canada.

Oh, if you can't PROVE they're not from Canada, you have to pay the GST on those too.

That's the last I heard on the subject, unless it's since changed.

If you're only an affiliate, it doesn't affect you in the least.

WiredGuy · 04-25-2005, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronaldo

Hire someone who knows the GST laws IMMEDIATELY!

As a paysite owner, you have to collect GST on any subscriptions you sell that are purchased from Canada.

Oh, if you can't PROVE they're not from Canada, you have to pay the GST on those too.

That's the last I heard on the subject, unless it's since changed.

If you're only an affiliate, it doesn't affect you in the least.

You're correct on the paysite owner portion but not on the affiliate portion. If you're an affiliate, you have to collect the GST on all revenues you generate from canadian based sponsors.

WG

ronaldo · 04-25-2005, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

You're correct on the paysite owner portion but not on the affiliate portion. If you're an affiliate, you have to collect the GST on all revenues you generate from canadian based sponsors.

WG

Actually, yes my bad, you're correct.

I just so happen to only promote U.S. based programs, so wasn't thinking about that.

Bomber8888 · 04-25-2005, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

You're correct on the paysite owner portion but not on the affiliate portion. If you're an affiliate, you have to collect the GST on all revenues you generate from canadian based sponsors.

WG

WG is correct!!

JimmiDean · 04-25-2005, 06:17 PM

Small sidebar,
you do not have to collect GST if your gross sales (To Canadians) is under 30k
this goes for all bizz in Canada to cut through red tape.
However you may still collect on sales under 30k if you wish thus you are able
to claim back GST on all expenses you pay.

directfiesta · 04-25-2005, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronaldo

Oh, if you can't PROVE they're not from Canada, you have to pay the GST on those too.

.

Revenu Canada considers all subscription to have been bought from within Canada ( forget the IP location and so on ) , so taxable.

On the otherhand, to use Paycom, CCbill and ( cough ) Ibill, you need a US corp. so technically your memers are income to a US corp...

WiredGuy · 04-25-2005, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmiDean

Small sidebar,
you do not have to collect GST if your gross sales (To Canadians) is under 30k
this goes for all bizz in Canada to cut through red tape.
However you may still collect on sales under 30k if you wish thus you are able
to claim back GST on all expenses you pay.

Did they raise it to 30k? I thought it was 25k. Either way, i'd recommend getting a GST account just so you can get back your 7% on expenses made in Canada.

WG

ronaldo · 04-25-2005, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

Did they raise it to 30k? I thought it was 25k. Either way, i'd recommend getting a GST account just so you can get back your 7% on expenses made in Canada.

WG

I think it's been 30k for a while.

Quote:

Originally Posted by directfiesta

Revenu Canada considers all subscription to have been bought from within Canada ( forget the IP location and so on ) , so taxable.

My statement was based on someone who appealed their inital GST ruling a few years ago, when there was really no set law for it. I know because I phoned the day I heard about it and NOBODY in the GST department could tell me how internet based businesses selling subscriptions were to collect the GST.

What the law has since evolved into, I'm not sure because it's not my field, though I do recall IP's not being proof enough to escape the GST.

This is why the first thing I suggested was hiring a GST specialist.

WiredGuy · 04-25-2005, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronaldo

What the law has since evolved into, I'm not sure because it's not my field, though I do recall IP's not being proof enough to escape the GST.

This is why the first thing I suggested was hiring a GST specialist.

If you're a paysite operator, you should consult a tax attorney, this is a really gray area in taxation. From my understanding, IP addresses alone are not sufficient because a canadian could be using a proxy or could simply be in a different country and buying a service from you in which it is still taxable. I think, if the sales form specifically asks if you are Canadian, that might be enough but like I said, its a gray area. Tax attorney

WG

RegUser · 04-26-2005, 03:14 AM

hmmmmmmmmm
thanks a lot for the replies
so it looks like everyone thinks that paysite owners have to pay GST
but
obviously no one is paying anything as no one has mentioned that he has actually made payments
anyways as far as i know
you probably have to pay for canadian customers but not for non canadian
and
the limit of 30 k is for business registration not for sales tax. you still have to pay sales tax even if you made much less
it is only that govt wants to track ppl beyond 30 k
If any paysite owner has personally paid the gst, please advise how did you do it.
thanks all

Kirsten · 04-26-2005, 03:22 AM

All you have to do is tell your rev. canada rep that you bill with
a third party billing company and the customers are not really yours..

like with ccbill or verotel etc. if you lose or close your account, you
don't take the customers with you.

Ccbill said we could type a letter up confirming and they would edit it
and put their letterhead on it & fax it to rev canada.

I don't pay gst now, it took awhile to get it through their thick heads but
they got it eventually.. you don't have to pay.. unless you own your own billing.

JimmiDean · 04-26-2005, 03:27 AM

I have been GST registered and paying for five years, along with getting refunded on hydro phone meals travel, cams etc.
And no if your gross is under 30 k sales you do not have to collect GST. PST is a must at any sales level. You are not rquired to collect or obtain a GST number under 30K but you can not claim back with out your GST reg number either.
You can confirm this with a quick call to the GST info line (look it up in the blue pages for your local.
Like every other tax you are best to incorporate ask and pay, or they will find you and then the fun begins.
Like I mentioned before getting a good account (also a must) simply call them(GST Office) and ask for a reply in writting I do and I have never had a problem.
I have run several bricks and mortar biz also and GST if you have your receipt in near revenue nuetral in most cases. PST however is not.
GST (I pay by Quarter ) takes several hours to compile . PST can be done in 10 minutes and must be pais by the 23rd of each month in full.

RegUser · 04-26-2005, 04:10 AM

Thanks Jimmi & Kirsten
Your replies are what I was looking for.
I have incorporated recently and have also engaged in discussions with rev canada for some time.
However as Kirsten pointed out with some third party processors, it is not even possible to find out how many users joined from Canada so I don't think I will be able to dig out all info.
I guess I will have to write it to rev canada and get it over with because calling them on phone seems to get no clear answers

webspider · 04-26-2005, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by directfiesta

Revenu Canada considers all subscription to have been bought from within Canada ( forget the IP location and so on ) , so taxable.

On the otherhand, to use Paycom, CCbill and ( cough ) Ibill, you need a US corp. so technically your memers are income to a US corp...

Exactly!

Kirsten · 04-26-2005, 10:50 AM

I would just close your gst account.. unless you have a corner store hehe.

I think they consider it ccbill or whoever paying you a (large) percentage so no
taxable.

WiredGuy · 04-26-2005, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RegUser

Thanks Jimmi & Kirsten
Your replies are what I was looking for.
I have incorporated recently and have also engaged in discussions with rev canada for some time.
However as Kirsten pointed out with some third party processors, it is not even possible to find out how many users joined from Canada so I don't think I will be able to dig out all info.
I guess I will have to write it to rev canada and get it over with because calling them on phone seems to get no clear answers

What do you think they'll say. Of course they want the 7%. You should be asking a tax specialist, one who has your best interests on the line, not the CCRA. And unfortunately if you can't prove your surfers are not canadian, CCRA will assume 100% of them are, that's the general rule.

WG

ronaldo · 04-26-2005, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

What do you think they'll say. Of course they want the 7%. You should be asking a tax specialist, one who has your best interests on the line, not the CCRA. And unfortunately if you can't prove your surfers are not canadian, CCRA will assume 100% of them are, that's the general rule.

WG

Although, if you DO call them, I'd be interested in knowing whether or not their own employees have a better grasp of their own laws then when I called them.

Come to GFY for opinions. Hire the appropriate people for your business-people that will work for YOU.

directfiesta · 04-26-2005, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Example

A Canadian resident who is registered for the GST/HST supplies software to customers in electronic format. Both resident and non-resident customers pay an annual fee which entitles them to receive the software electronically by e-mail. There are no restrictions with respect to the place of use of the software.

The supply of the software is deemed to be made in Canada, as it is a supply of intangible personal property which may be used in whole or in part in Canada. Even if the recipient is a non-resident person, the place of supply is still in Canada.

if you feel like getting a headache:

http://search-recherche.gc.ca/cgi-bi...+commerce&op=a

WiredGuy · 04-26-2005, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronaldo

Although, if you DO call them, I'd be interested in knowing whether or not their own employees have a better grasp of their own laws then when I called them.

Come to GFY for opinions. Hire the appropriate people for your business-people that will work for YOU.

Who's opinion would you rather believe, a CCRA employee or a tax specialist? If I listened to the CCRA's opinion I would have had to pay over $70k in damages. No way in hell. What the CCRA tells you is not necessarily correct.

WG

ronaldo · 04-26-2005, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

Who's opinion would you rather believe, a CCRA employee or a tax specialist? If I listened to the CCRA's opinion I would have had to pay over $70k in damages. No way in hell. What the CCRA tells you is not necessarily correct.

WG

Maybe the

wasn't clear enough that I agreed with you?

NoCarrier · 04-26-2005, 11:24 AM

There is something I don't undertsand. Why would affiliates have to pay for the GST as well?

WiredGuy · 04-26-2005, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronaldo

Maybe the

wasn't clear enough that I agreed with you?

I stand corrected

WG

WiredGuy · 04-26-2005, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoCarrier

There is something I don't undertsand. Why would affiliates have to pay for the GST as well?

Simply said, when two canadian businesses do business together, you generally have to collect GST (under 30k in business per year and you need not to). So if I was to work with a canadian sponsor, I'd need to charge 7% to go towards GST. This is one reason I very very very rarely will work with Canadian sponsors.

WG

BigRod · 04-26-2005, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by directfiesta

Revenu Canada considers all subscription to have been bought from within Canada ( forget the IP location and so on ) , so taxable.

On the otherhand, to use Paycom, CCbill and ( cough ) Ibill, you need a US corp. so technically your memers are income to a US corp...

This is EXACTLY RIGHT (just auditted) REV Canada can get access to your 3 party billing records.

BigRod · 04-26-2005, 11:34 AM

They actually have a special task force for collecting Internet Earnings, ironically the same group that audits grow ops

RegUser · 04-26-2005, 03:51 PM

The following is not correct:
"On the otherhand, to use Paycom, CCbill and ( cough ) Ibill, you need a US corp. so technically your memers are income to a US corp..."

You dont need to be a US corp to do business with ccbill.
Now the rule as I found out after speaking to some ccra employees and doing research on their website seems to be that as long as your terms and conditions tell users clearly that can not use that product in Canada, supply made to a non Canadian user is NOT taxable.
But it is still a very gray area. Their own folks have no clear idea. Also it is not very easy to define because billing processor may be in europe/US and servers may be in hong hong !!!

So what we need here is some genuine real input from Canadian website owners as to
1. Whether anyone has ever paid gst/pst, if yes what did you declare to revenue canada?
2. Has anyone been approached by rev canada to cough up gst/pst?
3. Is there anyone here whose income has been more than 30k and has never bothered gst/pst payments even though being incorporated?

ronaldo · 04-26-2005, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RegUser

Their own folks have no clear idea.

Thanks for the info. I see nothing has changed over there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RegUser

Is there anyone here whose income has been more than 30k and has never bothered gst/pst payments even though being incorporated?

I HIGHLY doubt you're going to get anyone to admit this publicly.

rabbit · 04-26-2005, 04:19 PM

http://www.gammacash.com/taxes.html

psyko514 · 04-26-2005, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

Simply said, when two canadian businesses do business together, you generally have to collect GST (under 30k in business per year and you need not to). So if I was to work with a canadian sponsor, I'd need to charge 7% to go towards GST. This is one reason I very very very rarely will work with Canadian sponsors.

WG

Ok, I'm a little confused. As a Canadian promoting a Canadian sponsor, I need to pay 7% of all my earnings from said sponsor to GST? And does the under $30K exemption apply to all my earnings, or only earnings from Canadian sponsors?

WiredGuy · 04-26-2005, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psyko514

Ok, I'm a little confused. As a Canadian promoting a Canadian sponsor, I need to pay 7% of all my earnings from said sponsor to GST? And does the under $30K exemption apply to all my earnings, or only earnings from Canadian sponsors?

The 30k is applicable for Canadian based income, not total income. And you are entitled to charge 7% GST on top of your payouts to the sponsor programs. If they don't pay it, it would have to come from your payouts but most canadian sponsors will pay it if you ask them. You also need to file with the CCRA regularly if you have a balance owing (quarterly I believe). Its paperwork like this that makes me not want to work with Canadian sponsors.

WG

ricks · 04-26-2005, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psyko514

Ok, I'm a little confused. As a Canadian promoting a Canadian sponsor, I need to pay 7% of all my earnings from said sponsor to GST? And does the under $30K exemption apply to all my earnings, or only earnings from Canadian sponsors?

the canadian sponsor paying you should be adding 7% on top of what they are paying you and you should be remitting that 7% to the government... they should be asking for gst numbers when signing up canadian webmasters... eventually they will get audited and it will get ugly for everybody involved... the $30k exemption would only apply to earnings from canadian sponsors

psyko514 · 04-26-2005, 05:51 PM

Thanks for the answers, WG and ricks.

So basically, if I'm not making more than $30K from my Canadian sponsors, and I'm not running my own paysite, I don't have to worry about GST, correct?

WiredGuy · 04-26-2005, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psyko514

Thanks for the answers, WG and ricks.

So basically, if I'm not making more than $30K from my Canadian sponsors, and I'm not running my own paysite, I don't have to worry about GST, correct?

I would say yes, but I also want to disclaim any liability should you get audited

WG

ricks · 04-26-2005, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psyko514

Thanks for the answers, WG and ricks.

So basically, if I'm not making more than $30K from my Canadian sponsors, and I'm not running my own paysite, I don't have to worry about GST, correct?

keep in mind if the canadian sponsors are paying you via ccbill or another american or international processor you are ok as you would technically be operating as a subagent of the processor not the program in this case

the ball really is in the sponsors court, they definately should be adding gst to your commission checks, or putting you on payroll like an employee and deducting income taxes off each check at source

if you are a paysite owner, charge the gst to canadians regardless of where your processor is located, not sure where the pst came into play in this thread but you would not have to charge that on a website membership anyhow

psyko514 · 04-26-2005, 06:46 PM

Thanks again guys

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

I would say yes, but I also want to disclaim any liability should you get audited

WG

Hehehe... I'm gonna check it out with a specialist anyways, but I just want to have a clue about what we'd be discussing first.

04-25-2005, 05:37 PM	#1
RegUser Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,472	Any Canadian webmaster Paying GST or PST If yes then how do you do it for website subscriptions ? Is it even required? PLease advise me

04-25-2005, 05:38 PM	#2
Tango Let's Tango! Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,570	I don't know for sure - but I would put $ on it that only 1 or 2 did if any __________________ ADULTS.com / ADULTS.net for sale AFFILIATE.com also for sale Serious Inquiries Only: Email: [email protected] for offers

04-25-2005, 05:40 PM	#3
WiredGuy Pounding Googlebot Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 34,482	Are you a webmaster or paysite operator? WG __________________ I play with Google.

04-25-2005, 06:17 PM	#8
JimmiDean Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Margarittaville Posts: 3,433	Small sidebar, you do not have to collect GST if your gross sales (To Canadians) is under 30k this goes for all bizz in Canada to cut through red tape. However you may still collect on sales under 30k if you wish thus you are able to claim back GST on all expenses you pay. __________________ My God there's Porn on here! Still on the Beach !!!

04-26-2005, 03:22 AM	#14
Kirsten Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: BC Canada Posts: 342	All you have to do is tell your rev. canada rep that you bill with a third party billing company and the customers are not really yours.. like with ccbill or verotel etc. if you lose or close your account, you don't take the customers with you. Ccbill said we could type a letter up confirming and they would edit it and put their letterhead on it & fax it to rev canada. I don't pay gst now, it took awhile to get it through their thick heads but they got it eventually.. you don't have to pay.. unless you own your own billing. __________________ http://www.kirstens-room.com

04-25-2005, 05:43 PM	#4
ronaldo Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: ICQ#: 272000271 Posts: 5,475	Hire someone who knows the GST laws IMMEDIATELY! As a paysite owner, you have to collect GST on any subscriptions you sell that are purchased from Canada. Oh, if you can't PROVE they're not from Canada, you have to pay the GST on those too. That's the last I heard on the subject, unless it's since changed. If you're only an affiliate, it doesn't affect you in the least.

04-26-2005, 03:14 AM	#13
RegUser Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,472	hmmmmmmmmm thanks a lot for the replies so it looks like everyone thinks that paysite owners have to pay GST but obviously no one is paying anything as no one has mentioned that he has actually made payments anyways as far as i know you probably have to pay for canadian customers but not for non canadian and the limit of 30 k is for business registration not for sales tax. you still have to pay sales tax even if you made much less it is only that govt wants to track ppl beyond 30 k If any paysite owner has personally paid the gst, please advise how did you do it. thanks all

04-26-2005, 03:27 AM	#15
JimmiDean Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Margarittaville Posts: 3,433	I have been GST registered and paying for five years, along with getting refunded on hydro phone meals travel, cams etc. And no if your gross is under 30 k sales you do not have to collect GST. PST is a must at any sales level. You are not rquired to collect or obtain a GST number under 30K but you can not claim back with out your GST reg number either. You can confirm this with a quick call to the GST info line (look it up in the blue pages for your local. Like every other tax you are best to incorporate ask and pay, or they will find you and then the fun begins. Like I mentioned before getting a good account (also a must) simply call them(GST Office) and ask for a reply in writting I do and I have never had a problem. I have run several bricks and mortar biz also and GST if you have your receipt in near revenue nuetral in most cases. PST however is not. GST (I pay by Quarter ) takes several hours to compile . PST can be done in 10 minutes and must be pais by the 23rd of each month in full. __________________ My God there's Porn on here! Still on the Beach !!! Last edited by JimmiDean; 04-26-2005 at 03:28 AM.. Reason: spell

04-26-2005, 04:10 AM	#16
RegUser Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,472	Thanks Jimmi & Kirsten Your replies are what I was looking for. I have incorporated recently and have also engaged in discussions with rev canada for some time. However as Kirsten pointed out with some third party processors, it is not even possible to find out how many users joined from Canada so I don't think I will be able to dig out all info. I guess I will have to write it to rev canada and get it over with because calling them on phone seems to get no clear answers

04-26-2005, 10:50 AM	#18
Kirsten Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: BC Canada Posts: 342	I would just close your gst account.. unless you have a corner store hehe. I think they consider it ccbill or whoever paying you a (large) percentage so no taxable. __________________ http://www.kirstens-room.com

04-26-2005, 11:24 AM	#24
NoCarrier We need more free porn Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 16,356	There is something I don't undertsand. Why would affiliates have to pay for the GST as well? __________________

04-26-2005, 11:34 AM	#28
BigRod Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 3,685	They actually have a special task force for collecting Internet Earnings, ironically the same group that audits grow ops __________________ Rod Macdonald Mainstream Ad Agency Owner ICQ: 607306

04-26-2005, 03:51 PM	#29
RegUser Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,472	The following is not correct: "On the otherhand, to use Paycom, CCbill and ( cough ) Ibill, you need a US corp. so technically your memers are income to a US corp..." You dont need to be a US corp to do business with ccbill. Now the rule as I found out after speaking to some ccra employees and doing research on their website seems to be that as long as your terms and conditions tell users clearly that can not use that product in Canada, supply made to a non Canadian user is NOT taxable. But it is still a very gray area. Their own folks have no clear idea. Also it is not very easy to define because billing processor may be in europe/US and servers may be in hong hong !!! So what we need here is some genuine real input from Canadian website owners as to 1. Whether anyone has ever paid gst/pst, if yes what did you declare to revenue canada? 2. Has anyone been approached by rev canada to cough up gst/pst? 3. Is there anyone here whose income has been more than 30k and has never bothered gst/pst payments even though being incorporated?

04-26-2005, 04:19 PM	#31
rabbit Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montreal Posts: 2,124	http://www.gammacash.com/taxes.html __________________ Got a paysite? Get it reviewed by RabbitsReviews and TheBestPorn

04-26-2005, 05:51 PM	#35
psyko514 See sig. Join Epic Cash. Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec. ICQ: 214702014 Posts: 22,366	Thanks for the answers, WG and ricks. So basically, if I'm not making more than $30K from my Canadian sponsors, and I'm not running my own paysite, I don't have to worry about GST, correct? __________________ Bad Girl Bucks - 50% Revshare through CCBill. Promote BrandyDDD, Pixie's Pillows, Action Allie and more! Phoenix Forum Pics \| Webmaster Access Montreal pics email: psyko514(a)gmail.com \| icq: 214-702-014