Any Canadian webmaster Paying GST or PST
 

If yes then how do you do it for website subscriptions ?
Is it even required?
PLease advise me :helpme

I don't know for sure - but I would put $ on it that only 1 or 2 did if any

Are you a webmaster or paysite operator?
WG

Hire someone who knows the GST laws IMMEDIATELY!

As a paysite owner, you have to collect GST on any subscriptions you sell that are purchased from Canada.

Oh, if you can't PROVE they're not from Canada, you have to pay the GST on those too.

That's the last I heard on the subject, unless it's since changed.

If you're only an affiliate, it doesn't affect you in the least.

You're correct on the paysite owner portion but not on the affiliate portion. If you're an affiliate, you have to collect the GST on all revenues you generate from canadian based sponsors.

WG

Actually, yes my bad, you're correct.

I just so happen to only promote U.S. based programs, so wasn't thinking about that.

WG is correct!!

Small sidebar,
you do not have to collect GST if your gross sales (To Canadians) is under 30k
this goes for all bizz in Canada to cut through red tape.
However you may still collect on sales under 30k if you wish thus you are able
to claim back GST on all expenses you pay. :2 cents:

Revenu Canada considers all subscription to have been bought from within Canada ( forget the IP location and so on ) , so taxable.

On the otherhand, to use Paycom, CCbill and ( cough ) Ibill, you need a US corp. so technically your memers are income to a US corp...

Did they raise it to 30k? I thought it was 25k. Either way, i'd recommend getting a GST account just so you can get back your 7% on expenses made in Canada.

WG

I think it's been 30k for a while.

My statement was based on someone who appealed their inital GST ruling a few years ago, when there was really no set law for it. I know because I phoned the day I heard about it and NOBODY in the GST department could tell me how internet based businesses selling subscriptions were to collect the GST.

What the law has since evolved into, I'm not sure because it's not my field, though I do recall IP's not being proof enough to escape the GST.

This is why the first thing I suggested was hiring a GST specialist.

If you're a paysite operator, you should consult a tax attorney, this is a really gray area in taxation. From my understanding, IP addresses alone are not sufficient because a canadian could be using a proxy or could simply be in a different country and buying a service from you in which it is still taxable. I think, if the sales form specifically asks if you are Canadian, that might be enough but like I said, its a gray area. Tax attorney :)

WG

hmmmmmmmmm
thanks a lot for the replies
so it looks like everyone thinks that paysite owners have to pay GST
but
obviously no one is paying anything as no one has mentioned that he has actually made payments
anyways as far as i know
you probably have to pay for canadian customers but not for non canadian
and
the limit of 30 k is for business registration not for sales tax. you still have to pay sales tax even if you made much less
it is only that govt wants to track ppl beyond 30 k
If any paysite owner has personally paid the gst, please advise how did you do it.
thanks all

All you have to do is tell your rev. canada rep that you bill with
a third party billing company and the customers are not really yours..

like with ccbill or verotel etc. if you lose or close your account, you
don't take the customers with you.

Ccbill said we could type a letter up confirming and they would edit it
and put their letterhead on it & fax it to rev canada.

I don't pay gst now, it took awhile to get it through their thick heads but
they got it eventually.. you don't have to pay.. unless you own your own billing.

I have been GST registered and paying for five years, along with getting refunded on hydro phone meals travel, cams etc.
And no if your gross is under 30 k sales you do not have to collect GST. PST is a must at any sales level. You are not rquired to collect or obtain a GST number under 30K but you can not claim back with out your GST reg number either.
You can confirm this with a quick call to the GST info line (look it up in the blue pages for your local.
Like every other tax you are best to incorporate ask and pay, or they will find you and then the fun begins.
Like I mentioned before getting a good account (also a must) simply call them(GST Office) and ask for a reply in writting I do and I have never had a problem.
I have run several bricks and mortar biz also and GST if you have your receipt in near revenue nuetral in most cases. PST however is not.
GST (I pay by Quarter ) takes several hours to compile . PST can be done in 10 minutes and must be pais by the 23rd of each month in full.

Thanks Jimmi & Kirsten
Your replies are what I was looking for.
I have incorporated recently and have also engaged in discussions with rev canada for some time.
However as Kirsten pointed out with some third party processors, it is not even possible to find out how many users joined from Canada so I don't think I will be able to dig out all info.
I guess I will have to write it to rev canada and get it over with because calling them on phone seems to get no clear answers

Exactly!

I would just close your gst account.. unless you have a corner store hehe.

I think they consider it ccbill or whoever paying you a (large) percentage so no
taxable.

What do you think they'll say. Of course they want the 7%. You should be asking a tax specialist, one who has your best interests on the line, not the CCRA. And unfortunately if you can't prove your surfers are not canadian, CCRA will assume 100% of them are, that's the general rule.

WG

:thumbsup

Although, if you DO call them, I'd be interested in knowing whether or not their own employees have a better grasp of their own laws then when I called them.

Come to GFY for opinions. Hire the appropriate people for your business-people that will work for YOU.

if you feel like getting a headache:

http://search-recherche.gc.ca/cgi-bi...+commerce&op=a

Who's opinion would you rather believe, a CCRA employee or a tax specialist? If I listened to the CCRA's opinion I would have had to pay over $70k in damages. No way in hell. What the CCRA tells you is not necessarily correct.

WG

Maybe the :thumbsup wasn't clear enough that I agreed with you?

There is something I don't undertsand. Why would affiliates have to pay for the GST as well?

I stand corrected :)
WG

Simply said, when two canadian businesses do business together, you generally have to collect GST (under 30k in business per year and you need not to). So if I was to work with a canadian sponsor, I'd need to charge 7% to go towards GST. This is one reason I very very very rarely will work with Canadian sponsors.

WG

This is EXACTLY RIGHT (just auditted) REV Canada can get access to your 3 party billing records.

They actually have a special task force for collecting Internet Earnings, ironically the same group that audits grow ops

The following is not correct:
"On the otherhand, to use Paycom, CCbill and ( cough ) Ibill, you need a US corp. so technically your memers are income to a US corp..."

You dont need to be a US corp to do business with ccbill.
Now the rule as I found out after speaking to some ccra employees and doing research on their website seems to be that as long as your terms and conditions tell users clearly that can not use that product in Canada, supply made to a non Canadian user is NOT taxable.
But it is still a very gray area. Their own folks have no clear idea. Also it is not very easy to define because billing processor may be in europe/US and servers may be in hong hong !!!

So what we need here is some genuine real input from Canadian website owners as to
1. Whether anyone has ever paid gst/pst, if yes what did you declare to revenue canada?
2. Has anyone been approached by rev canada to cough up gst/pst?
3. Is there anyone here whose income has been more than 30k and has never bothered gst/pst payments even though being incorporated?

Thanks for the info. I see nothing has changed over there.

I HIGHLY doubt you're going to get anyone to admit this publicly.

Ok, I'm a little confused. As a Canadian promoting a Canadian sponsor, I need to pay 7% of all my earnings from said sponsor to GST? And does the under $30K exemption apply to all my earnings, or only earnings from Canadian sponsors?

The 30k is applicable for Canadian based income, not total income. And you are entitled to charge 7% GST on top of your payouts to the sponsor programs. If they don't pay it, it would have to come from your payouts but most canadian sponsors will pay it if you ask them. You also need to file with the CCRA regularly if you have a balance owing (quarterly I believe). Its paperwork like this that makes me not want to work with Canadian sponsors.

WG

the canadian sponsor paying you should be adding 7% on top of what they are paying you and you should be remitting that 7% to the government... they should be asking for gst numbers when signing up canadian webmasters... eventually they will get audited and it will get ugly for everybody involved... the $30k exemption would only apply to earnings from canadian sponsors

Thanks for the answers, WG and ricks.

So basically, if I'm not making more than $30K from my Canadian sponsors, and I'm not running my own paysite, I don't have to worry about GST, correct?

I would say yes, but I also want to disclaim any liability should you get audited :)
WG

keep in mind if the canadian sponsors are paying you via ccbill or another american or international processor you are ok as you would technically be operating as a subagent of the processor not the program in this case

the ball really is in the sponsors court, they definately should be adding gst to your commission checks, or putting you on payroll like an employee and deducting income taxes off each check at source

if you are a paysite owner, charge the gst to canadians regardless of where your processor is located, not sure where the pst came into play in this thread but you would not have to charge that on a website membership anyhow

Thanks again guys :thumbsup

Hehehe... I'm gonna check it out with a specialist anyways, but I just want to have a clue about what we'd be discussing first.