haha.. and you think QUebec on his own would do better?????? Are you out of your mind?? Do you even know how BIG of a risk is it for QUebec to go on his own?? Do I need to remind you QUebec is POOR and populated with a vast mojority of no good extreme socialists who want everything to be paid for without lifting a fucking finger!?? Quebec aka the land of Unions, de l'universalité et du nivellement par le bas...!??

Even René Lesvesque talked about it being "Le beau RISQUE" at a time where the sovereignty wasnt that bad of an idea.. Things changed.. it is now A BAD IDEA and a fucking BAD RISK!! :2 cents:

The federal is getting richer and richer and we are losing control of our own social programs. In a couple of years, the fiscal imbalance will be even more horrible. If nothing is done about this problem and that the federal keeps denying there is a fiscal imbalance, there WON'T BE ANY REASONS LEFT to stay within this federation.

one.. the Gazette have their seperatsist writing for them.. Josée something... cant remember her name.. And the Gazette and CJAD reach a VERY limited number of people.. please.. ANd the anglos they reach are already federalist and WILL ALWAYS remain federalist..

More entertaining than paint drying...thx guys.

LOL...so that doesn't count :1orglaugh not enough PENETRATION....

They only reach Anglos ???/ Shit, it seems separation has already happened in facts ....

Do you think that La Presse has any ( Dubuc) federalists ????

First.. you seem to often forget about the billions we get in perequation... Second.. right now.. QUebec is not equiped to go on his own.. Maybe later... Not now.. Third.. all the provinces are fighting the fiscal imbalance.. And with the liberal party losing its feathers... its only a question of time before the federal government give the provinces what they want...

uh.. whats the problem with having partisan editorialists..? La Presse has its share of separatists too... How about Le journal de Montreal or le Devoir? lol

Not sure what you are trying to prove?! THat NOT EVERYONE in QUebec is a separatist? Never said that... What im saying is the media is overwelmingly dominated by separatists...

:1orglaugh :error :1orglaugh

On the same page !!!!!!!

Well, born here, raised here, and I have moved back here three times now... but I would suspect the end is near... *sigh*.

Basically, the collapse of this federal parliment will very likely be the end of national political parties and a move to regional parties. This will lead to endless minority governments, and an endless series of elections that will serve only to frustate and alienate everyone involved. Quebec seperation would only be a side issue when compared to the total dissolution of the federal system as it has existed. The traditional british partlimentary system fails when faced with repeated minority governments.

What you will get is this: The conservatives will get most of the west, the NDP will get some seats here and there, the bloquists will get a huge majority of quebec seats, the conservatives and liberals will split ontario, and the east will be mostly liberal and NDP. At the end of the day, we will likely get a conservative minority supported by nobody else, which will once again fail as soon as a budget is put forward unless then bend over and lick the bloquists asses. Then we get to have another election, the cards will shuffle slightly, and probably we will get a liberal minority supported by nobody that will once again fail.

In the mean time, new "national" parties will emerge that will be supported by nobody.

Liberal party of quebec will get kicked out of office in the next quebec election, replaced by an PQ government that will use the federal situation to quickly call a referendum, which will succeed, and quebec will move to leave the federation.

Total run time is about 3 - 4 years.

LIberal party of Canada is going down the same road as the PC party did in the past, and they died a horrible death... the end is near.

Thank god I have british citizenship too.

Alex

haha... try to be a bit more rational will you...

Take this exemple..


You work for a company... you earn $200K based partially on %... YOu learn that they are screwing you... YOu should earn $220K/year... Shit.. What do you do?? YOu have ONE option.. Go work for your competitor... Who are not as good and where you'll only earn $50k per year.. ANd until proven otherwise.. theres no indication that they are not paying what you should earn.... MMmmmh .. What will YOU do ...?? Who will you penalize the most by going elsewhere? Guess what.. Quebeckers will lose the most by having the conservatives in power... Dont get me wrong.. if there was a valid alternative to the Liberals.. I would vote for them.. Guess what there ISNT...

As for your $45 billions... please...

lol .. I think theres a problem if you cant make the difference between the fucking host of the biggest 6 oclock news show on "national TV" and editorialists writting for a paper... You think americans for exemple would tolerate having Robert Novak host the evening news on NBC and giving his partisan editorial every freakin night...? Dont they have laws against that... Just common sense...

OK, so this thread has said that every province is losing money to the federal government. I have a question - where does that money go?

And is Quebec losing so much more then the rest of us that it has to seperate? I don't quite get it.

More questions - I'm a bit young, I've kinda missed shit like the Meech Lake junk. Why does Quebec want to seperate? What do they plan to gain? I've been to Montreal, really enjoyed it (much more then Toronto) - from my visit there, I don't see a reason to seperate? Yah, there is a bit of a culture difference, but no more then the culture difference you experience heading to Chinatown or Richmond over here... Canada is all about embracing different cultures and producing more tolerant, well rounded people.

Anyways, is there a website with some decent info on this? Can be in french or english, as I can basically read french (and if not, babelfish is my friend)... I always stay out of these debates because I am a bit uninformed.

WooHoo! Thread killer :)

i just got home this is gonna take me some time to weed through here, bare with me.

FUCKING RIGHT! I'm not talking about the topic of this discussion. I'm talking about the commonality that unites us a people. From Newfoundland to Nunavut to Vancouver To Quebec and Windsor!

This is what it means to be Canadien/Canadienne/Canadian! This is an example of what I was talking about in a previous thread on this subject.

Your post is one part of the "GET IT" I was talking about. It's the analogy without an announcement to say it is an analogy. One born out of sarcasm. To combine these two elements of communication is un-heard of in most cultures.

It is things like this that make a tiny nation of little more than 30 million take it's seat at the table of the big boys.

It is the thing that keeps us from going into stupid situations like the current IRAQ condition. We don't cause chaos like the americans

It is the thing that when we do engage in a combat we stand our ground and not retreat and don't accept defeat. Unlike the French of France who say "To be happy you must hide."

It is this argument that all of us are having!

We call each other names. We make logical statements and stupid ones. Both scholars and bluenecks debate in their own way with each other.

And no one pulls out a gun or walks away feeling degraded. We may not always agree but we premit each other the luxary of making a statement.

We say it is OKAY to call each other ASSHOLE and believe it.

But most importantly when it is all said and done. Each and everyone of us can find some sort of humour in the entire issue.

No one agrees, we all think each other is an asshole, we yell and scream and say mean things. And at the end of the day, despite it all we remain together.

No matter what side or opinions expressed.... This thread makes me proud to be Canadienne!

This thread is dumb.. Would any profitable state in USA not want to be their own country ? Of course not. Do you think anyone is going to let them ?? Of course not..

It will never happen stop dreaming about it.

Sure. Close your eyes and ignore the 45 billions they Liberals have stolen from the employment insurance fund, it's much more easier that way.

I tattoed my CDN flag on the back of my right shoulder.

What flag do you fly? Losing money? are you high?

we are all in this together....get a grip..the selfishness is not hard to see in you, nor people who believe the way you do

a few guys at the top of the food chain become instant kings...everyone else is just sheep...ignorant beyond all belief

i'm going to go and drink at a night club in Korea..everyone here who i explain this to..thinks the separatists are crazy

100..........

This is what I want out of Quebec seperation

1. New language designation. I don't want to speak french. I don't want to speak english. I want to speak Quebecoise!!! Or quebec-aise if you prefer!

2. Real Maple Syrup made in Quebec that I can purchase for less than anyone else in north america.

3. Get this fucking American Beer crap out of Quebec! I want Boreale at the same price I pay for Wildcat! The only reason I drink Wildcat is because it's fucking cheap!

4. The end of Construction Cards! Do you know how many good men in Quebec look great, can fuck like gods, repair your leaky roof but can't get a job because they don't have a Fucking Construction card!! I mean shit!!! I take it in the ass like Jeanne D'arc ridding into battle. I deserve to have the entire package. Is it too much to ask for a man with a decent job?

5. During La fête de la Saint-Jean Baptiste... I want to get drunk, smash beer bottles, get into a fight with some girl for comming on to her boyfriend. Then take off my shirt, dance around a bonfire and wake up in the morning next to some hairy bastard I don't know and have to buy a home pregnancy test that afternoon and schedule a doctor's appoint for an HIV test.

(Oh wait I already have that right.... make no account of this.)

Oh and for the federalists....

If you promise to make #5 into a national holiday for all of Canada. I'll support you instead! Afterall it really is the only important thing listed there. I can live with or without the rest.

I still dont get it. I've read a few more sites now and all the info points to Quebec failing as a country if they separate...

So why do they want to do it?

I just dont get it.

Hey painintheass
Let me know when you come to montreal
i want you to :love2suck

HaHaHa ....

That's pretty much the way I see it...
My degrees are in Economics..
I studied Internation Trade... My professor specifically went over Quebec Separation....

We couldn't see ANY possible way for them to stay afloat without reparation payments... Even with these payments, debt still increases.
The Quebec economy is bloated, there's a preponderance of Unions, over legislation, and silly laws..(EG: After 5pm on weekends, no retail store is allowed more than 4 workers..So, Walmart and stores like it close at 5pm!!!!)

There's major unemployment, 67% of GDP is from Service industry...
Here's the biggest thing..
Quebec accounts for 24% of Canada's population, yet their GDP accounts for only 21%...

So, regardless of "federal taxes and fiscal imbalance" that ALL provinces deal with, Quebec isn't generating as much Revenue as MOST of the other provinces, and is incurring debt... There's very little work ethic in Quebec, with most employees complaining about having to work overtime, or put in a few extra hours... (EG: dayjob workers leave immediately at 5pm, and take EVERY coffee break they're entitled to)

pussy

...

:1orglaugh thsi thread is dam long, can someone summarize, i was up late fucking working, then i get 50 fucking calls in a row, none of them leave msgs and wake me the fuck up, i am going to tear someone a new neck today. :mad: :mad:

I'm actually considering making a severe fetish dominatrix content. If you let my girl bang you in the ass with a strap on.... I'll gladly blow you in payment. (Hell.... if I could pay my talent with a blow job I would be the happiest pornographer in the world)

hey guys
YOU CHEATED AT THE FUCKING REFDERENDUM

we should have win

stop telleing stupidity

next time if you try to cheat its gonna be like this

http://mishappa.image.pbase.com/u29/...68222.paix.jpg
http://sylvain.homelinux.org/albums/...1873.sized.jpg
http://k43.pbase.com/u29/simonroy/up....papiertoi.jpg
http://k43.pbase.com/u29/simonroy/up...8185.drums.jpg
http://k41.pbase.com/u29/simonroy/up...8186.ligne.jpg

WE did not cheat.

Or at least I know that I didn't cheat.

If someone from the separatist camp could show me a responsible socio-economic plan for what happens after Quebec becomes a Sovereign Nation I might be a little more open minded about separatism.

:2 cents:

HEY.... la Saint-Jean Baptiste!!!!!
Yioppie!!!!

I'm getting Drunk, Topless and Laid by a Lumberjack named Pierre!!!

the ex-director of the PLC Francois Corbeil i think admitted it yesterday
he said something like :"Parizeau was right, even if its sound funny from me, if we would have win by 300000 votes i wouldnt tell so but by 50 000 votes... yes the rushing of immigration and all the money we spent (illegally) made the difference.

its Benoit Corbeil btw, sorry for the typo but here is the article in french



Jacques Parizeau a eu raison de dire qu'il avait perdu le référendum sur la souveraineté à cause de l'argent et du vote ethnique, dit Benoît Corbeil. Venant de l'ancien directeur général du Parti libéral du Canada au Québec, cette affirmation a de quoi surprendre, convient-il.

« Aujourd'hui, si on me pose la question (M. Parizeau avait-il raison), je suis obligé de dire oui, a dit M. Corbeil au cours d'un entretien, hier. Venant de moi, c'est assez particulier. C'est clair que la stratégie (du Parti libéral), c'était de faire sortir le vote ethnique au maximum. Si nous avions gagné par 300 000 électeurs, j'aurais dit non (c'est-à-dire que M. Parizeau n'avait pas raison). Mais lorsqu'on regarde les résultats du référendum, la réponse est oui. »

Les forces du NON ont gagné le référendum par un peu plus de 50 000 voix (50,6 % du total). M. Corbeil était déjà actif au sein du Parti libéral du Canada au Québec (PLC-Q). Il dit qu'il a pu voir, de proche, comment le bureau du premier ministre Jean Chrétien a agi pour le gagner.

« Il y a eu une accélération du processus menant à la citoyenneté de milliers d'immigrants au Québec, dit-il. Ce n'était pas difficile: plusieurs commissaires à l'immigration étaient liés au parti. Jean Chrétien a fait un discours à la nation, un en français et un autre en anglais, qui n'était pas identique et qui contenait un message particulier pour les groupes ethniques. »

« Puis il y a eu la fameuse manifestation d'amour du Canada au centre-ville de Montréal. Bien qu'actif au parti, je n'ai été mis au courant qu'à la dernière minute. J'étais chargé d'aller chercher les manifestants du Manitoba à l'aéroport de Dorval. Je les ai amenés en autobus jusqu'au square Dominion. Puis je suis monté au 33e étage du Château Champlain; il y avait là plusieurs membres du bureau du premier ministre et d'autres personnes qui surveillaient la manifestation, armés de jumelles et de caméras. »

C'était clair que l'organisation de la manifestation avait coûté très cher, et c'était aussi clair que cette dépense ne respectait pas la loi sur les référendums au Québec, ajoute M. Corbeil. Selon lui, le programme de commandites a suivi dans cet état d'esprit: il fallait combattre le mouvement souverainiste par tous les moyens, c'est-à-dire avec beaucoup d'argent, quitte à ne pas toujours respecter la loi.

« À l'époque, pour moi, les déclarations de Jacques Parizeau (ancien premier ministre du Québec), c'était de la folie. Avec le recul, 10 ans plus tard, je dis que ce n'était pas une folie. »

L'ancien directeur du Parti libéral du Canada au Québec serait-il devenu souverainiste? lui a demandé La Presse.

« Non, répond M. Corbeil. Mais je suis en réflexion. Est-ce que je suis libéral? Non. Pour moi, c'est fini. Pour moi, c'est terminé. »

M. Corbeil a grimpé les échelons dans le PLC-Q jusqu'à en devenir le directeur général, en 1999. Il dit que le « réseau libéral » a tout fait pour unifier les forces fédéralistes au Québec sous l'aile libérale. Pour cela, ajoute-t-il, il fallait éliminer le Parti conservateur au Québec.

Ce réseau a convaincu Daniel Johnson (ancien premier ministre québécois) de quitter la direction du Parti libéral du Québec, ajoute-t-il. Le but: laisser la place vacante pour Jean Charest. Le « réseau » voulait que Jean Charest quitte le Parti conservateur. Lui-même a convaincu des députés conservateurs de passer au parti libéral.

« De cette façon, les conservateurs ne pouvaient plus diviser le vote fédéraliste aux élections, dit-il. La stratégie a fonctionné. On a obtenu des résultats formidables aux élections de 2000, avec 44 % des voix, contre 41 % au Bloc, et un seul élu conservateur. »

Unfortunately, we now know that the "NO" clealy cheated.

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites...05,1002231.php

http://www.bloc.org/archivage/propos...ipale_05v2.pdf

The social programs that all the other provinces are paying for. Whoopie.

Still whining??

Holy shit, you separatists never quit.

hahahahaha... what was the referendum's question again..!?


Have the separatists demand a equal representation in the media (for the sake of democracy if for nothing else), have rules to prevent teachers from promoting the sovereignty in their classroom... and Unions from telling their members to vote for the seperation.. Then you'll be able to point fingers..

You mean like the 12 billion dollars invested in the army from the Federal? Yeaahh.. Sure. That's what we need right now, especially when we can barely keep our health care services in the Province.

OK

but i want upfront payment :upsidedow