TeenRevenue.com and rebills - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

EddiePulp · 04-15-2005, 05:59 AM

50 posts for 50 non-existing rebills

Triple 6 · 04-15-2005, 06:07 AM

all the hoopla is cuz the sites are designed with pedos in mind, and if you cant even get a pedo to rebill on topanga, lol, theres definetely some issues with the site.

Evil Chris · 04-15-2005, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwantchixx

There's more reasons than just the amount of content, it's the quality and the airbrushing of tats in photos then they magically appear in the videos as one example. Surfers are upset about many things inside. I think you should start listening to them and especially listening to your webmasters. Even if it was just the amount of content being an issue you should have put more in it to begin with. If you can't keep a member longer than a month there's a problem. Just waiting for it to fix itself over time with updates is not going to cut it. Your webmasters are loosing tons of money waiting for the lazy fix and you guys don't seem to care enough to correct the problem.

Nice exaggeration. Our content is certainly not an issue. Our models pull in the clicks and the signups. Their appearance is what makes it work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwantchixx

So 99 percent of webmasters are sending shitty traffic is what you are saying? If the traffic generates the initial signup then the traffic is good. Period. Retention is your problem, not the affiliates. Retention ah nothing to do with where traffic comes from. A credit card being used to sign up is a credit card being used to sign up. Period. If you can't keep them rebilling it's not the fault of the traffic nor affiliate. Passing the buck (blame) onto your affiliates is irresponsible. Sorry to say.

No, that is what you're saying, not me. If the traffic generates the initial signup then the traffic is good? Wrong. TGP traffic in particular is very savvy. By enlarge they know all about trials and cancels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwantchixx

You may be convinced but your affiliates are certainly not, ass kissers aside that is. There are major problems retaining members within your sites. Obviously that means it's not working. Yes, I know most of the sites are brand new, but how do you explain it for older sites? Ok,. so the problem mostly boils down to lack of content on the new sites because they are new.. the ADD MORE! The choice is clear, you want to make more money right? You want to keep affiliates right? Do what needs to be done and stop blaming everyone and everything except your own company's mismanagement of sites.

Are you whacked? Mismanagement? And by the way, this isn't damage control. This is me addressing the re-bill concerns of A HANDFUL of GFY webmasters. From my own personal traffic I have an overall conversion of 1:317, and a 32% rebill rate. These are numbers since the day TR opened.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwantchixx

I can't believe what I just read here.
Serious webmasters should not be concerned with their conversions and rebills with you guys at all when they're losing money on your sites?? So you're saying that even though rebills are practically non-existent that it's not a cause for concern? So serious webmasters shouldn't be worried when they are losing money off their bottom line on your sites? I don't understand the logic.

Another exaggeration. Well done. You don't understand your own logic. That's obvious to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwantchixx

I'm not trying to bash you or anything but some of the things you said in damage control were utterly ridiculous and I am pointing it out since nobody else has the guts to do so. From blaming affiliates for YOUR sites not rebilling to not stepping up and doing what needs to be done to fix the problem even after admitting it's part of the problem. Amazing. And youw ant people to continue trusting you with their "shitty" traffic?

Now you're just not making sense, and putting words in my mouth. Not gonna happen.

I have said it in the past, and I'll say it again. I DO NOT put my name down on anything I don't mean 100%. There is NO overall rebilling problem with our programs. However, for those that have expressed that they aren't rebilling up to what they hoped, I'm here to explain and help them out. This is the case with ANY program out there! Some do great while others do average or less. I have posted my own numbers above.

Matt_WildCash · 04-15-2005, 06:17 AM

Funny how people make a big deal about receiving something in the mail, hey guys pick it up throw it in the rubbish move on with life. Flaming a sponsor on the boards is not productive. Heard nothing but good things about Teenrevenue & Triplexcash.

dirtydesignz · 04-15-2005, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driven

Funny how people make a big deal about receiving something in the mail, hey guys pick it up throw it in the rubbish move on with life. Flaming a sponsor on the boards is not productive. Heard nothing but good things about Teenrevenue & Triplexcash.

Umm, this thread wasn't about fliers, it was about rebills....

Nembrionic · 04-15-2005, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

We DO HAVE a solid reputation for taking care of our affiliates, especially in times of crisis, and we will continue to do so. What that means is we're listening.

Funny you should say that.You have ignored me in every way possible. I haven't tried the phone yet but I can't be assed to pick up a phone when email, ICQ, PM's and posts on message board don't get your attention. You're in internet company ffs.

Funny enough I'm not the only one to experience this.

So how solid are you guys again?

Rui · 04-15-2005, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

When's the draw for that BMW? Or is that just eye candy?

Can you buy yourself a clue or need help with that?

Evil Chris · 04-15-2005, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nembrionic

Funny you should say that.You have ignored me in every way possible. I haven't tried the phone yet but I can't be assed to pick up a phone when email, ICQ, PM's and posts on message board don't get your attention. You're in internet company ffs.

Funny enough I'm not the only one to experience this.

So how solid are you guys again?

Are you just jumping on the "bash us" wagon, or you seriously can't reach me? My ICQ, email, etc.. are posted all over our contact page. Hell, FHM runs an easy to find board. He's easy to find as well as Kevin & Paolo who also answer emails if you send to 'em.

Disclaimer! Sometimes you may not get an answer to your query in 10 seconds or less.

Evil Chris · 04-15-2005, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rui

Can you buy yourself a clue or need help with that?

No help me out. Is that your car? Or is it a prize of some sort?

SR · 04-15-2005, 07:35 AM

Chris is a great guy and triplexcash is a solid program.
I'm sure they'll do anything to get the rebills up for teenrevenue.

Nembrionic · 04-15-2005, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

Are you just jumping on the "bash us" wagon, or you seriously can't reach me? My ICQ, email, etc.. are posted all over our contact page. Hell, FHM runs an easy to find board. He's easy to find as well as Kevin & Paolo who also answer emails if you send to 'em.

Disclaimer! Sometimes you may not get an answer to your query in 10 seconds or less.

No, i'm not jumping on the wagon. It's serious, and I have already posted it on another board where you posted even before this whole rebill thing came up.

And no, I didn't wait just 10 sec. I'm not stupid you know.
And again, I wasn't the only one.

keyboard warrior · 04-15-2005, 08:13 AM

What does the members area look like ? anyone see it?

skillfull · 04-15-2005, 09:23 AM

post a couple screenshot of the members area, will not burn the content and give everyone an idea

INever · 04-15-2005, 09:45 AM

I said it earlier in this thread. Industry-wide there is oversaturation with free samples negating the value of the member areas. I think dealing with anyone in the industry who promotes "free porn" and "free money-shots" is dealing non-productively. The sooner all pink is behind the member wall, the better.

Let's do it---for the children!

That said, there is probably no putting the genie back in the bottle so these two things must happen...(IMHO)
1-strict limitations on the variations and content depth of the sample galleries, 2-the girls need to get interactive---

Chris,

Will any of the teenrevenue girls be doing web cam shows or live chat...?

Dirty F · 04-15-2005, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SR

Chris is a great guy and triplexcash is a solid program.
I'm sure they'll do anything to get the rebills up for teenrevenue.

Maybe they should send out flyers to their members.

Dirty F · 04-15-2005, 10:25 AM

Funny how in 2 threads instead of saying sorry for that fuck up they simply ignore me.

Great business move.

Rui · 04-15-2005, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

No help me out. Is that your car? Or is it a prize of some sort?

1 - is it stated somewhere that the car belongs to anybody?

2- is there any word about any contest awarding a BMW in the site?

Piss poor attempt to stir shit mr. pro.

Anyway Next Door Cash affiliates have better chances of beeing able to buy any car with the money they make from rebills (you know what the word rebill means rigth?

)

BlueQuartz · 04-15-2005, 10:42 AM

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO

bitches who make no money

Choker · 04-15-2005, 10:43 AM

I am not one to jump on any bandwagons, but you guys sending this flier out was unprofessional to say the least. Correct me if I am wrong, but the envelope it came in did not indicate it was from you and in fact did not even look like junk mail. I get tons of junk mail, the soulcash fliers at least come in a envelope from soulcash, so I know what I am opening. Last week when I got your envelope, I fast sort my mail and have my kids open envelopes I am not sure of. May be bills or checks, never know. NEVER have I recieved a flier like this in a "unmarked" envelope. So guess what? My kids saw this flyer. You asskissers can bitch all you want and say that I should open my own mail. Well it is none of your fucking business now is it? I should not have to worry about getting porn in my fucking mailbox, now should I? So I should not let my kids or girlfriend open my mail because you guys might send a porn brochure in a unmarked envelope? WRONG fucking answer. Don't send me porn in the mail in a unmarked envelope. It's really quite simple.

Dirty F · 04-15-2005, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Choker

I am not one to jump on any bandwagons, but you guys sending this flier out was unprofessional to say the least. Correct me if I am wrong, but the envelope it came in did not indicate it was from you and in fact did not even look like junk mail. I get tons of junk mail, the soulcash fliers at least come in a envelope from soulcash, so I know what I am opening. Last week when I got your envelope, I fast sort my mail and have my kids open envelopes I am not sure of. May be bills or checks, never know. NEVER have I recieved a flier like this in a "unmarked" envelope. So guess what? My kids saw this flyer. You asskissers can bitch all you want and say that I should open my own mail. Well it is none of your fucking business now is it? I should not have to worry about getting porn in my fucking mailbox, now should I? So I should not let my kids or girlfriend open my mail because you guys might send a porn brochure in a unmarked envelope? WRONG fucking answer. Don't send me porn in the mail in a unmarked envelope. It's really quite simple.

You will be ignored.

Dirty Dane · 04-15-2005, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Choker

So guess what? My kids saw this flyer. You asskissers can bitch all you want and say that I should open my own mail. Well it is none of your fucking business now is it? I should not have to worry about getting porn in my fucking mailbox, now should I? So I should not let my kids or girlfriend open my mail because you guys might send a porn brochure in a unmarked envelope? WRONG fucking answer. Don't send me porn in the mail in a unmarked envelope. It's really quite simple.

....and meanwhile they get bombarded with violence and sex from the telly

btw, I could not see any porn on my flyer, not more than any other commercial stuff you get in the mailbox. But that might been the euro-version, I dont know

Evil Chris · 04-15-2005, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franck

Funny how in 2 threads instead of saying sorry for that fuck up they simply ignore me.

Great business move.

Are you still crying?

You have my attention Franck. What's up?

jscott · 04-15-2005, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nembrionic

No, i'm not jumping on the wagon. It's serious, and I have already posted it on another board where you posted even before this whole rebill thing came up.

And no, I didn't wait just 10 sec. I'm not stupid you know.
And again, I wasn't the only one.

i'm not jumping on any wagon either, but i definately will back Nembrionic up on this, i even posted threads on multiple boards where triplxcash/teenrev people actively post and didnt get responses, also i tried that icq/pm/email thing which didnt get me any responses either

just is disappointing when you find a decent sponsor that you cannot contact for webmaster support

just my

Shags · 04-15-2005, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

Are you still crying?

You have my attention Franck. What's up?

p1mpdogg wanna be

Nembrionic · 04-15-2005, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

Are you still crying?

You have my attention Franck. What's up?

Why don't you reply to me and Jscott?
It's been a few hours(and not 10sec) but no reply. I guess this proves it...

Damian_Maxcash · 04-15-2005, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shags

p1mpdogg wanna be

Pimpdog was an act....

I think this guy is for real - and that is a shame because the sites are nice

INever · 04-15-2005, 12:05 PM

oy vey.... his kids saw the flyer...
Originally Posted by Choker
So guess what? My kids saw this flyer. You asskissers can bitch all you want and say that I should open my own mail. Well it is none of your fucking business now is it? I should not have to worry about getting porn in my fucking mailbox, now should I? So I should not let my kids or girlfriend open my mail because you guys might send a porn brochure in a unmarked envelope? WRONG fucking answer. Don't send me porn in the mail in a unmarked envelope. It's really quite simple.

Maybe instead of some cute 18 year old teeangers, a political organization should mail you some pics of innocent burned Iraqi teenagers. That's what the reality is. TODAY. AS WE SPEAK!

If you think your kids can't handle looking at some teenagers in seductive poses with braces, you are a hypocrite because they probably have or will soon have (when a little older) access to your sites and more when you are not around.

But then again, this kind of hypocritical puritanism and confused thinking is what makes the market for this business!

Evil Chris · 04-15-2005, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nembrionic

Why don't you reply to me and Jscott?
It's been a few hours(and not 10sec) but no reply. I guess this proves it...

Hey now... don't let your narcissism get in the way of proper use of English.

That would be "jscott and I". Got it?

Nembrionic · 04-15-2005, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

Hey now... don't let your narcissism get in the way of proper use of English.

That would be "jscott and I". Got it?

Oh please, you're like DarkJedi. As soon as you know you're in the wrong, you start bitching about grammar etc.

Now what's your excuse for not answering?

(PS: I'm not English or American, so bitching at my use of the English language is a cheap shot)

Evil Chris · 04-15-2005, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nembrionic

Oh please, you're like DarkJedi. As soon as you know you're in the wrong, you start bitching about grammar etc.

Now what's your excuse for not answering?

(PS: I'm not English or American, so bitching at my use of the English language is a cheap shot)

What am I wrong about? Are you trying to contact me? I have no mail or ICQs from anyone named Nembrionic.

Nembrionic · 04-15-2005, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

Hey now... don't let your narcissism get in the way of proper use of English.

That would be "jscott and I". Got it?

Also, I said "me and Jscott", not "Jscott and me".

"I and Jscott" doesn't make sense

Got it?

jennym · 04-15-2005, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

Hey now... don't let your narcissism get in the way of proper use of English.

That would be "jscott and I". Got it?

Actually, it would be "jscott and me"

Evil Chris · 04-15-2005, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nembrionic

Also, I said "me and Jscott", not "Jscott and me".

"I and Jscott" doesn't make sense

Got it?

Oh you're coming through loud and clear!

Nembrionic · 04-15-2005, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

What am I wrong about? Are you trying to contact me? I have no mail or ICQs from anyone named Nembrionic.

I use a different name on ICQ. But you also did not respond to my email and you didn't respond to any of my boardposts.

And when I ask you why you didn't respond, you come with some asshole remark about my use of English.

I don't really care for you anymore to be honest.
Just don't claim you take care of you affiliate SO SUPER WELL because you DON'T.

Evil Chris · 04-15-2005, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nembrionic

I use a different name on ICQ. But you also did not respond to my email and you didn't respond to any of my boardposts.

And when I ask you why you didn't respond, you come with some asshole remark about my use of English.

I don't really care for you anymore to be honest.
Just don't claim you take care of you affiliate SO SUPER WELL because you DON'T.

Well wherever you're from, they apparently know how to spell asshole.

Look, I'm through messin around too.

If you did in fact send me something, I would like to know because I'm not aware of it. If you need support, just let me know.

Cheers.

Nembrionic · 04-15-2005, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

Well wherever you're from, they apparently know how to spell asshole.

Look, I'm through messin around too.

If you did in fact send me something, I would like to know because I'm not aware of it. If you need support, just let me know.

Cheers.

That is my whole point. I DID send things. So did others. But there was no response. In this case, it took me 7 post or something before it even registered to you I tried contacting you. Quite thick!

I'm not going to waste any time anymore on trying to contact you nor on this thread.

You don't care about an affiliate less or more aparently. Guess that says it all.

Seriously man, don't bother anymore.

iwantchixx · 04-15-2005, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuaShe

Yo IwantChixx, please stop posting more intelligent replies please. It confuses me.

;))))

I apologize for that, sincerely

iwantchixx · 04-15-2005, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

Nice exaggeration. Our content is certainly not an issue. Our models pull in the clicks and the signups. Their appearance is what makes it work.

No, that is what you're saying, not me. If the traffic generates the initial signup then the traffic is good? Wrong. TGP traffic in particular is very savvy. By enlarge they know all about trials and cancels.

Are you whacked? Mismanagement? And by the way, this isn't damage control. This is me addressing the re-bill concerns of A HANDFUL of GFY webmasters. From my own personal traffic I have an overall conversion of 1:317, and a 32% rebill rate. These are numbers since the day TR opened.

Another exaggeration. Well done. You don't understand your own logic. That's obvious to me.

Now you're just not making sense, and putting words in my mouth. Not gonna happen.

I have said it in the past, and I'll say it again. I DO NOT put my name down on anything I don't mean 100%. There is NO overall rebilling problem with our programs. However, for those that have expressed that they aren't rebilling up to what they hoped, I'm here to explain and help them out. This is the case with ANY program out there! Some do great while others do average or less. I have posted my own numbers above.

You're on damage control so I understand your ignorance but I'll say it anyways. Keep in mind, from paragraph to paragraph this may not make sense so just treat each paragraph as a response to your paragraphs above, i'm too lazy to quote piece by piece.

1: You admited to content being an issue with retention already. So now you're taking it back? Should I requote you?

2: So TGP users are more savvy? Great. They should be for this very reason. If you are concerned about them knowing how to cancel then you should be making the members areas good enough for them to NOT want to cancel. That is the goal of a paysite right? the goal is not to rely on 'stupid' surfers.

3: So you have a rebill rate of 32%?? Thats not something you should be admitting. That's bad man. So I take it you have "shitty traffic" too then? That sucks

4: The sites ARE being mismanaged. You can't retain members at an industry standard rate. Something is wrong and you know it. Instead of sitting here refreshing GFY defendig yourself. DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE PROBLEMS. It will make everyone happy, especially you. Remember, rebills mean more money for your company. That's what your there for right?

5: I understand my logic fine and everyone , asskissers and you aside, agrees with me. How could I spell it out any clearer?

6: Man, you're being dense and too defensive and it's affecting how you do business. There IS a rebilling problem. When you have forums full of webmasters and surfer forums full of angry ex customers there is a problem.

Fuck. FIX the fucking members areas and stop denying everything.

You claim to value webmaster input and I gave you INPUT that you really should listen to. Very educated and spot on input and you sit there being defensive and not listening. sigh

I don't know why I bother sometimes.

04-15-2005, 05:59 AM	#51
EddiePulp Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Australia iCQ:408018496 Posts: 1,332	50 posts for 50 non-existing rebills __________________ I dont need a sig.

04-15-2005, 06:07 AM	#52
Triple 6 Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: isN'T everything Posts: 5,394	all the hoopla is cuz the sites are designed with pedos in mind, and if you cant even get a pedo to rebill on topanga, lol, theres definetely some issues with the site. __________________ SIG TOO SMALL! Maximum 1200x600 button and no more than 30 text lines of ALL SIZES and COLORS. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 6240x4800 instead of a 1024x800.

04-15-2005, 08:13 AM	#62
keyboard warrior Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,435	What does the members area look like ? anyone see it? __________________ - nothing here -

04-15-2005, 09:23 AM	#63
skillfull Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Quebec Calisse Posts: 4,716	post a couple screenshot of the members area, will not burn the content and give everyone an idea __________________ mind at underdark dot cc SEO Analyst Thunder-Ball.net - Member

04-15-2005, 09:45 AM	#64
INever Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: .......in a niche, in orbit...... Posts: 3,619	Overexposure Part two I said it earlier in this thread. Industry-wide there is oversaturation with free samples negating the value of the member areas. I think dealing with anyone in the industry who promotes "free porn" and "free money-shots" is dealing non-productively. The sooner all pink is behind the member wall, the better. Let's do it---for the children! That said, there is probably no putting the genie back in the bottle so these two things must happen...(IMHO) 1-strict limitations on the variations and content depth of the sample galleries, 2-the girls need to get interactive--- Chris, Will any of the teenrevenue girls be doing web cam shows or live chat...? __________________ I love Camdough Last edited by INever; 04-15-2005 at 09:46 AM..

04-15-2005, 06:17 AM	#54
Matt_WildCash Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,699	Funny how people make a big deal about receiving something in the mail, hey guys pick it up throw it in the rubbish move on with life. Flaming a sponsor on the boards is not productive. Heard nothing but good things about Teenrevenue & Triplexcash.

04-15-2005, 07:35 AM	#60
SR Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,239	Chris is a great guy and triplexcash is a solid program. I'm sure they'll do anything to get the rebills up for teenrevenue.

04-15-2005, 10:25 AM	#66
Dirty F Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 59,204	Funny how in 2 threads instead of saying sorry for that fuck up they simply ignore me. Great business move.

04-15-2005, 10:42 AM	#68
BlueQuartz Confirmed User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 1,971	LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO bitches who make no money

04-15-2005, 10:43 AM	#69
Choker Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Orlando Posts: 9,024	I am not one to jump on any bandwagons, but you guys sending this flier out was unprofessional to say the least. Correct me if I am wrong, but the envelope it came in did not indicate it was from you and in fact did not even look like junk mail. I get tons of junk mail, the soulcash fliers at least come in a envelope from soulcash, so I know what I am opening. Last week when I got your envelope, I fast sort my mail and have my kids open envelopes I am not sure of. May be bills or checks, never know. NEVER have I recieved a flier like this in a "unmarked" envelope. So guess what? My kids saw this flyer. You asskissers can bitch all you want and say that I should open my own mail. Well it is none of your fucking business now is it? I should not have to worry about getting porn in my fucking mailbox, now should I? So I should not let my kids or girlfriend open my mail because you guys might send a porn brochure in a unmarked envelope? WRONG fucking answer. Don't send me porn in the mail in a unmarked envelope. It's really quite simple. __________________ ICQ me lets make a deal 116894466 Need dating, cam, or tube traffic? I got it.http://http://www.chokertraffic.com The Original http://www.chokertraffic.com/ Premium country pop-unders from $1.50 per k. I challenge you to compare this traffic to any other brokers. http://www.chokertraffic.com/public/tabs.php?t=o

04-15-2005, 12:05 PM	#77
INever Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: .......in a niche, in orbit...... Posts: 3,619	All ye hypocrites oy vey.... his kids saw the flyer... Originally Posted by Choker So guess what? My kids saw this flyer. You asskissers can bitch all you want and say that I should open my own mail. Well it is none of your fucking business now is it? I should not have to worry about getting porn in my fucking mailbox, now should I? So I should not let my kids or girlfriend open my mail because you guys might send a porn brochure in a unmarked envelope? WRONG fucking answer. Don't send me porn in the mail in a unmarked envelope. It's really quite simple. Maybe instead of some cute 18 year old teeangers, a political organization should mail you some pics of innocent burned Iraqi teenagers. That's what the reality is. TODAY. AS WE SPEAK! If you think your kids can't handle looking at some teenagers in seductive poses with braces, you are a hypocrite because they probably have or will soon have (when a little older) access to your sites and more when you are not around. But then again, this kind of hypocritical puritanism and confused thinking is what makes the market for this business! __________________ I love Camdough