Well i can tell you several ways , but NATS doesnt really have much to do with them.

Lets take the recent example of the realitycash FHG's that were being redirected to 10dollarcash sites.

Totally honest mistake , and i find no fault in realitycash in any way , but using the same method one could simply forward those 404's back to the originating program.

For example. lets say the galleries are for realitycash MILF site, and im sending traffic to the FHG's from my tgp.

So you have the FHG's on several servers to help balance the loads. All you have to do is remove that gallery from one of the servers for a certain amount of time each day, or if you were clever you would simply do what tgp cheaters do and track the ip of each affiliate and then make sure they never see the 404. Or rotate out the galleries.

The only way to find out would be to check 1000 fhg's source code for your NATS code ( that changes for each program ) every day.

Yes, with lingering rebills! :1orglaugh

OK, say you run 3 different processors,

There is a cron job that runs nightly for each of those processors which polls the processors, and pulls in renewals, cancellations, CB, & credits..

Since ( for most ) NATS does not control the addition and deletion of the username and password, there would be no "real" need to run the cron job for say 1 of the 3 processors..

So if you don't run 1 of the three cronjobs that pulls rebills from the processors, you just shaved all the rebills from that procesor, and the affiliate would never know, as NATS doesn't show them WHO rebilled, and WHICH processor the rebills came from...

Now granted, NATS could probably easily catch a program that is doing something like this, and it's quite possible that they have something in the code to monitor that to keep it from happening...

I dont think NATS will like this thread very much. :(

That has nothing to do with Nats, that is a hosted gallery problem, and is detectable by affiliates.

In conclusion.

Is NATS shaveable? NO.

Can you use NATS and still shave? YES

Is there really much difference ? Not really.

Should people go with nats because they think it means they cant be shaved ? Not in my opinion.

Is NATS a great piece of software ? From everything i have heard it is, other than some minor glitches.

I think Nats would catch that, and even if it didn't, it would only effect reshare programs, it would not allow a per-signup program like RealityCash to shave.

Yes i agree it doesnt really have anything to do with NATS , other than the fact that it could be used with NATS. So the fact a sponsor uses NATS doesnt mean they dont shave , thats all i was trying to say.. Because NATS was sort of promoted in that manner i think its only fair to say..

And in my example above , it wont be detected by affiliates unless they check each page thousands of times a day .. ( thats not feasable )

Duke Dollars does not use Electracash. If we owed, it would be paid for sure. We paid out on IBill, so this would be no different.

See Sig!

yes, we can agree to that, there is nothing like the "perfect crime"

...but I am not saying that people won't try to defaud NATS, I just showed you one "not so good" way to defraud them, there is other ways, p.e. you could show the correct reseller code in the html, but the data posted to NATS is different.

a simply java script hidding in some frameset could just convert the posted value from:

MTE3OjU6NQ
to
MHGJH74RTF

... this is happening in the background and it's almost impossible for the common webmaster to notice.

Second space sig spot it worthless. Get on the ball! :mad:

if they give the source code
they are shavable

even if the code is crypted, everything can be decrypted easily ;)

I'm staying out of this one today. I will say this though. Electracash was one of many issues we encountered so to say a few minor glitches, I don't agree.

If NATS works for those who use it, then I'm happy for you and hope it continues to work for you. I know this much, I'm not the only fish in the pond who shares the same sentiments and eventually there will be a bigger fish than us that speaks out.

Maybe we had the lemon install....LOL

Already posted this in a related thread, but since the question was asked about all NATS programs...
We don't use Electracash. We have also hand-checked every single transaction and cross-checked them between the NATS stats and the processors stats - no transactions were missing. If any had been, of course we would pay on them.

I love this forum. Just a month ago everyone was kissing Nats arse like it was a 18 year old virgin. It was pathetic how thread after thread people where asking for sponsors who use Nats and is was pathetic how thread after thread people talked about how Nats couldnt shave.

Now we have gone the other way. Now we see everyone comming out saying how it could be shaved. Anyone who has ever made one sale knows that a payment system cant stop a shaver and so choosing a sponsor because they use nats is laughable.

Im not saying nats isnt a good system, infact I dont know one way or the other, but when you choose a sponsor choose one you trust and work with them, get the owners ICQ, talk to him, watch your stats. I work with sposors that I trust and make money with, I couldnt give a rats arse what payment system they use. I prefere CCBill becuase then I get all my checks together, but I know with CCBill or nats or any other system you can shave. Its simple, its easy, its almost undetecable and it takes seconds with any system in the world

disagreed, have you considered the postback level? :)

Funkmaster,

Not a SINGLE NATS sponsor that I know currently uses Electracash!!
This is also NOT SHAVING. Like we said before, JSA was TOLD to STOP using Electracash because of a major issue. The issue was NOT IN NATS it was in ELECTRACASH! I am not going to give you details, if they want to or someone else that knows, thats fine, but I am not going to start another friggin popcorn thread here. It took ELECTRACASH multiple _MONTHS_ to get it sorted out, before that we were not comfortable letting anyone use them.
It was sorted out around 1 month ago and we have reenabled Electracash around 2 weeks ago for anyone that still wants to use them now.

The reason why we did not yet import the electracash rebills for JSA until now is simply that they closed the ticket about this issue more than 2 months ago! If they wanted us to, we could import all rebills right now so that the NEXT PAYOUT includes them ALL. This is what we always do in these cases!

Electracah is btw by far not the only biller that ever had problems. If I remember correctly even Oyestein can back me on this, around 1 year ago they had an issue with one of the billers they had implemented that caused problems. This is a NORMAL thing in this biz. Many unstandardized systems have to play together correctly, we do not make the billers adapt to us, we adapt to the billers to support them.

Also, Electracash DID fix the problem in a good way and we are now happy to let anyone use them together with NATS.


I am not even going to start with all the shaving stuff in this thread again, we explained our standpoint often enough, if anyone wants to actually try using NATS and shaving, be my guest, you won't be doing it for long.

How about this one...

Everyone knows that affiliate software has to either pull data from the processor, or rely on the processor to postback data to the software.

You cannot encode a database and there is nothing the software company can do to keep you from changing polling and postback scripts.

So what is going to stop someone from creating their own postback & polling scripts with a shave built in? Nothing.

http://www.jasonandalex.com/images/shave.jpg

These crons could easily be pointed to custom polling scripts. Just as easily, the processors postback URLs could be pointed to custom postback scripts.

I am not trying to single out NATS by any means, this can be done with ANY affiliate software including MPA3.

Any thoughts? This is purely for entertainment value : )

i know another shave method with NATS

This is a big one

What if a big company that pays out millions of dollars using NATS

suddenly ....


files for CHAPTER 11 !

Its just a complete shave not just checks but for CREDIT CARD BILLING TOO using EPOCH AND CCBILL!!



!


Don't trust NATS imo.

No one has any thoughts? bah!

so rumors are true that earnings are up with nats

We don't have Electracash but when we dropped a handful of signups from CCBill because of a postback issue we hand added them to make sure everyone got paid.

If you think any sponsor is going to "shave off" a huge chunk of signups like that all at once then you haven't thought it through. No sponsor is going to keep affiliates very long if their numbers are for shit and shaving off hundreds of rebills or joins will make that sponsor look awfully shitty. :2 cents:

StandAhead.com doesn't use Electracash neither! Our affiliates are very important and they do the job, they would have been paid for sure!

Things always worked like this in this industry.....

1) hype
2) followers
3) problems
4) rantings...

etc...etc..

Like......Whoa :winkwink:

... very nice !! (would work for all, excluding MPA2)

Immer die anderen :winkwink:

MPA2 uses crons also as far as I know. At least I kept seeing a bunch of crons for all kinds of billers and other things.

But yeah, removing the crons or changing them would make it possible to remove rebills and such, not sales though (so only usable to "shave" revshare programs) and I am sure someone would start asking questions rather soon on a revshare program that does not see many rebills. Or just stop using them I guess.

Why not sales?

Good point.

At the end of the day, who decides to shave will do it anyway.

Is that such a bad thing?

Not really, since there is enough competition out there that will eventually
pay me more at the end of the day or have other aspects that make me feel
more comfortable sending my traffic there.

It's quite easy, if Sponsor A makes me 2000 daily while shaving and Sponsor B makes me 1000 daily without shaving...

Guess who gets my traffic :winkwink:

It's called a self regulating market, the better ones always win, shaving or not.

Just my :2 cents:

The crons would not fetch sale info. They might double-check them, but most likely will not actually store them from there, sales would be way too slow in registering then.

Postbacks will be used for sale info, not the crons.

:1orglaugh

Read again, I mentioned postback URLs as well :)

Lets try this scenario:

Sponsor A is known to be shaving.
Sponsor B is known to not shave.

You do not use either A or B. Now you have some new traffic, which sponsor do you pick?

You telling me you would prefer picking A over B?

Fabian

Ok, so you want to rewrite all postback scripts and all polling scripts, figure out how to register a sale correctly for the software so you do not forget some little thing here or there that might be needed that you might overlook.

So you have to learn implementing all the billers, learn what the software does and are still not 100% sure noone will catch you.

This is basically a risk management thing really. If you think you can get away with it, give it a try and we'll see who laughs last. If you do not want the others to laugh last, you might want to consider not doing this.

Do not forget, you have a lot to lose by getting caught, you will want to do this the best way possible.

If you could write your own software that just simply shaved, or buy apps that you can change the source code to, or buy an app that you know does not have a shaving feature (like mpa3 or NATS), and you wanted to shave, what would you do? Get mpa3 or NATS or get one of the first two choices?

I pick the one that makes me more $$ at the end of the day, regardless if they shave or not.

If a known shaver converts better than a non-shaving one and does more sales on my volume, why would I choose the non-shaver?

Ethics are nice and good, but at the end the $$ makes the final descision in this business.

Hope you got my point.

Grüsse aus der Heimat :)

This is about the possibility to shave secretly with any affiliate software, nothing more. It is not hard at all to figure out how to register a sale through the software and every processor has a detailed technical manual available to anyone.

Ok, so you would test both sponsors with equal effort? I wonder how many others would actually do that, I doubt too many would.

Grüße zurück ;)

Priceless :thumbsup