So how do we get through to all these Christians in the U.S.... - GoFuckYourself.com

jawanda · 03-20-2005, 04:08 PM

...and inform them that the President they so love is NOT a Christian in any biblical sense of the term, but actually someone who is hurting their church and going directly against the word of God according to His own Book?

Seems simple enough, but I think it will take some serious silent infiltration into the chruch as well as a lot of $$ to accomplish. But oh! what a worthy cause. I'm not even a Christian, but I so desire to see the Church restored to it's original moral principles / ideals within my lifetime.

George Bush a Christian ...

... about as much as I'm a Hindu, and yet so many of his supporters consider him a Religious Leader. It's very unnerving.

Ideas?

-P

spentrent · 03-20-2005, 04:16 PM

You CANNOT talk sense to people who are inherently allergic to sense.

FunForOne · 03-20-2005, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jawanda

...and inform them that the President they so love is NOT a Christian in any biblical sense of the term, but actually someone who is hurting their church and going directly against the word of God according to His own Book?

Seems simple enough, but I think it will take some serious silent infiltration into the chruch as well as a lot of $$ to accomplish. But oh! what a worthy cause. I'm not even a Christian, but I so desire to see the Church restored to it's original moral principles / ideals within my lifetime.

George Bush a Christian ...

... about as much as I'm a Hindu, and yet so many of his supporters consider him a Religious Leader. It's very unnerving.

Ideas?

-P

To be honest with you, I think more of the people that dont like him keep reminding people that he is a christian as opposed to the people who voted for him.

I dont remember the word "jesusland" on his campaign posters.

Silently infiltrate the church??.... Thats just good politics. Dont think you won't see hillary in black churches.

jawanda · 03-20-2005, 04:34 PM

interesting point indeed.

SuckOnThis · 03-20-2005, 04:48 PM

"The mission of the Christian Coalition is simple," says Pat Robertson. It is "to mobilize Christians -- one precinct at a time, one community at a time -- until once again we are the head and not the tail, and at the top rather than the bottom of our political system." Robertson predicts that "the Christian Coalition will be the most powerful political force in America by the end of this decade." And, "We have enough votes to run this country...and when the people say, 'We've had enough,' we're going to take over!"--Pat Robertson

Nembrionic · 03-20-2005, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jawanda

...and inform them that the President they so love is NOT a Christian in any biblical sense of the term, but actually someone who is hurting their church and going directly against the word of God according to His own Book?

Seems simple enough, but I think it will take some serious silent infiltration into the chruch as well as a lot of $$ to accomplish. But oh! what a worthy cause. I'm not even a Christian, but I so desire to see the Church restored to it's original moral principles / ideals within my lifetime.

George Bush a Christian ...

... about as much as I'm a Hindu, and yet so many of his supporters consider him a Religious Leader. It's very unnerving.

Ideas?

-P

aren't state affairs (like the law and such) and religion supposed to be seperated in the USA?

tony286 · 03-20-2005, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nembrionic

aren't state affairs (like the law and such) and religion supposed to be seperated in the USA?

the right seem to ignore that part of the constitution lol

NoCarrier · 03-20-2005, 05:09 PM

FunForOne · 03-20-2005, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

the right seem to ignore that part of the constitution lol

It doesn't say that the elected representatives of the people cant govern and make decisiosn based on religious values. If the people dont like their values, they shouldn't vote for them. If they are elected, that means the majority of the people have the same or similiar values.

The constitution is often misinterpreted or misrepresented by politics.
It says that congress shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;.." -- First Amendment --

theking · 03-20-2005, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunForOne

It doesn't say that the elected representatives of the people cant govern and make decisiosn based on religious values. If the people dont like their values, they shouldn't vote for them. If they are elected, that means the majority of the people have the same or similiar values.

The constitution is often misinterpreted or misrepresented by politics.
It says that congress shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;.." -- First Amendment --

You are correct...and the seperation of church and state...is not a part of the constitution.

aico · 03-20-2005, 05:23 PM

Religion is Evil!!!

titmowse · 03-20-2005, 07:39 PM

Fundies love to take the Jesus out of Christianity. You think James Dobson or Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell follow these words?

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, "Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

New User · 03-20-2005, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spentrent

You CANNOT talk sense to people who are inherently allergic to sense.

That is simply not true.

If you actually treat Christians and Evangelicals with respect and stop talking down to them like they are stupid, maybe take the time to clearly explain your views to them exactly as your values state and compare them to Christian values I find that they usually respond very well.

I had a talk with a long-time friends mother a few days actually, she is very religious and voted for Bush for that reason. I explained to her why I believed Bush's policies were not of Christian values and exactly the opposite, by the end of the conversation she admitted she felt tricked into making a very big mistake when she voted and believes Bush is the antichrist now. Of course I also had to put up with her trying to "save" me for the next two hours, but I figured I'd listen since she put up with my politics for a while.

I imagine if I told her she was a dumb ass religious nut who couldn't put two words together to make an intelligent statement if the bible didn't do it for her and tried to sell her on the idea that all people who are Christians are stupid mindless morons who dropped out of high school to marry their cousins, she would have left that conversation an even bigger, prouder Bush supporter than she already was. Now she is not.

Maybe the Christian Coalition figured out along time ago they could rally strong support by playing on the fact that so many "Liberals" talk down to and "threaten" religion in their favor? You should actually read their mailers, they do state that the Christians in this country are under attack and that only the Conservative Republicans can save them, some even go as far as to say all Democrats and Liberals are tools of Satan and all you have to do to prove it is to look around and see how they talk down to "us".

Then what do they see, a bunch of liberals telling them they are mindless idiots and saying you should not waste your time on them. Great way to prove their point for them, seems like we are our own biggest enemies in this battle.

Maybe if we wasted more time on them and treated them with the same respect we wish they treated us with they would see the right-wingers for what they really are. We all know Conservative politicians don't give two shits about God or Christians, they just use them for their strong activation/mobilization tactics.

Basically I am saying we need to practice what we preach, we (progressives/liberals) believe this country was founded in large part on the basis of religious and cultural tolerance, therefore maybe we should respect and tolerate the Christians and other religious folks the same way we ask to be respected and tolerated for our beliefs, or disbeliefs.

Religion has no place in politics and politics has no place in religion, Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, Locke, Jackson, Monroe, all of these men had very firm religious beliefs and were devout Christians, but they all believed religion (while it could be used as a moral guide) could never be incorporated into politics in a true Democracy where ALL religions are to be respected equally. So politics must focus on the needs of the people and the State, not the needs of the religions.

Remember majority rules is a perversion of Democracy (mob rule), true Democracy is a majority rule with strong respect for the significant minority.

PHPdude · 03-20-2005, 08:30 PM

the editorial cartoon does make sense

uno · 03-20-2005, 08:39 PM

New User...

Everything you said in your post about treating religious people with respect was kind of nullified that by the fact that you called regligous people mindless easily led sheep who fear the boogeyman.

New User · 03-20-2005, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uno

New User...

Everything you said in your post about treating religious people with respect was kind of nullified that by the fact that you called regligous people mindless easily led sheep who fear the boogeyman.

Maybe you should go back and reread the post and this time do not take my words out of context, I never called anybody mindless easily led sheep who fear the boogeyman. I said I bet I would not have gotten very far with this woman if that is how I spoke to her, but I never said religious people were/are ...

Actually please find where I even used the words easily, led, sheep, fear, and/or boogeyman.

rambler · 03-20-2005, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New User

That is simply not true.

If you actually treat Christians and Evangelicals with respect and stop talking down to them like they are stupid, maybe take the time to clearly explain your views to them exactly as your values state and compare them to Christian values I find that they usually respond very well.

I had a talk with a long-time friends mother a few days actually, she is very religious and voted for Bush for that reason. I explained to her why I believed Bush's policies were not of Christian values and exactly the opposite, by the end of the conversation she admitted she felt tricked into making a very big mistake when she voted and believes Bush is the antichrist now. Of course I also had to put up with her trying to "save" me for the next two hours, but I figured I'd listen since she put up with my politics for a while.

I imagine if I told her she was a dumb ass religious nut who couldn't put two words together to make an intelligent statement if the bible didn't do it for her and tried to sell her on the idea that all people who are Christians are stupid mindless morons who dropped out of high school to marry their cousins, she would have left that conversation an even bigger, prouder Bush supporter than she already was. Now she is not.

Maybe the Christian Coalition figured out along time ago they could rally strong support by playing on the fact that so many "Liberals" talk down to and "threaten" religion in their favor? You should actually read their mailers, they do state that the Christians in this country are under attack and that only the Conservative Republicans can save them, some even go as far as to say all Democrats and Liberals are tools of Satan and all you have to do to prove it is to look around and see how they talk down to "us".

Then what do they see, a bunch of liberals telling them they are mindless idiots and saying you should not waste your time on them. Great way to prove their point for them, seems like we are our own biggest enemies in this battle.

Maybe if we wasted more time on them and treated them with the same respect we wish they treated us with they would see the right-wingers for what they really are. We all know Conservative politicians don't give two shits about God or Christians, they just use them for their strong activation/mobilization tactics.

Basically I am saying we need to practice what we preach, we (progressives/liberals) believe this country was founded in large part on the basis of religious and cultural tolerance, therefore maybe we should respect and tolerate the Christians and other religious folks the same way we ask to be respected and tolerated for our beliefs, or disbeliefs.

Religion has no place in politics and politics has no place in religion, Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, Locke, Jackson, Monroe, all of these men had very firm religious beliefs and were devout Christians, but they all believed religion (while it could be used as a moral guide) could never be incorporated into politics in a true Democracy where ALL religions are to be respected equally. So politics must focus on the needs of the people and the State, not the needs of the religions.

Remember majority rules is a perversion of Democracy (mob rule), true Democracy is a majority rule with strong respect for the significant minority.

Sounds like good advice.
Now I know, next time I will try to keep my laughter to myself whenever I speak to someone who believes in the "imaginary man in the sky"

uno · 03-20-2005, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New User

Maybe you should go back and reread the post and this time do not take my words out of context, I never called anybody mindless easily led sheep who fear the boogeyman. I said I bet I would not have gotten very far with this woman if that is how I spoke to her, but I never said religious people were/are ...

Actually please find where I even used the words easily, led, sheep, fear, and/or boogeyman.

It was all implied through your word usage.

Quote:

I had a talk with a long-time friends mother a few days actually, she is very religious and voted for Bush for that reason. I explained to her why I believed Bush's policies were not of Christian values and exactly the opposite, by the end of the conversation she admitted she felt tricked into making a very big mistake when she voted and believes Bush is the antichrist now.

Quote:

Maybe the Christian Coalition figured out along time ago they could rally strong support by playing on the fact that so many "Liberals" talk down to and "threaten" religion in their favor? You should actually read their mailers, they do state that the Christians in this country are under attack and that only the Conservative Republicans can save them, some even go as far as to say all Democrats and Liberals are tools of Satan and all you have to do to prove it is to look around and see how they talk down to "us".

Quote:

We all know Conservative politicians don't give two shits about God or Christians, they just use them for their strong activation/mobilization tactics.

GatorB · 03-20-2005, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jawanda

...and inform them that the President they so love is NOT a Christian in any biblical sense of the term, but actually someone who is hurting their church and going directly against the word of God according to His own Book?

Seems simple enough, but I think it will take some serious silent infiltration into the chruch as well as a lot of $$ to accomplish. But oh! what a worthy cause. I'm not even a Christian, but I so desire to see the Church restored to it's original moral principles / ideals within my lifetime.

George Bush a Christian ...

... about as much as I'm a Hindu, and yet so many of his supporters consider him a Religious Leader. It's very unnerving.

Ideas?

-P

Let's help them see God faster.

rambler · 03-20-2005, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uno

It was all implied through your word usage.

Sorry uno, I don't see it implied anywhere in his statements

New User · 03-20-2005, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uno

It was all implied through your word usage.

Was it now?

New User · 03-20-2005, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rambler

Sounds like good advice.
Now I know, next time I will try to keep my laughter to myself whenever I speak to someone who believes in the "imaginary man in the sky"

See here is point, you should. In a Liberal Democratic society everyone has the right to believe what they want to believe. We should honor that no matter how foolish we may believe other's beliefs to be. Of course you also have the right to laugh in their faces if you feel the need, but you should be the bigger man and just be respectful and move on.

Put yourself in their shoes, they probably laugh at you for thinking God is the "imaginary man in the sky."

I understand it gets annoying with a lot of "born agains" and people like that who are always trying to push their religious beliefs on everyone else, but then its their right, and you know maybe they have good intentions, if they didn't care about you they wouldn't try to "convert" you.

I suppose I feel like I have no right to judge them when I am always trying to push my political beliefs on others.

Webby · 03-20-2005, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nembrionic

aren't state affairs (like the law and such) and religion supposed to be seperated in the USA?

Mmmm... well, no.

Did you think it was a democracy????

Sure, it's called that, but it's just a label to keep it simple.

wargames · 03-21-2005, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoCarrier

That's scary.

dig420 · 03-21-2005, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uno

New User...

Everything you said in your post about treating religious people with respect was kind of nullified that by the fact that you called regligous people mindless easily led sheep who fear the boogeyman.

That's what they are. Call a spade a spade, and easily brainwashed religious people idiots.

Centurion · 03-21-2005, 01:34 AM

I think the Military should use this "new found religion" that has supposedly erupted in this country. They could use it in their recruiting slogan:

"Join The Army, Go to Iraq, Meet Jesus sooner than expected!"

Seems to me you would a HUGE Christian Jihad taking place then.

jamesonxx · 03-21-2005, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centurion

I think the Military should use this "new found religion" that has supposedly erupted in this country. They could use it in their recruiting slogan:

"Join The Army, Go to Iraq, Meet Jesus sooner than expected!"

Seems to me you would a HUGE Christian Jihad taking place then.

Good point.

reynold · 03-21-2005, 04:36 AM

Interesting post.

New User · 03-21-2005, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centurion

"Join The Army, Go to Iraq, Meet Jesus sooner than expected!"

Thats great!

Mr Dickovitch · 03-21-2005, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New User

Thats great!

Hey surfer, go back to the pic post board where you came from.

New User · 03-21-2005, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Dickovitch

Hey surfer, go back to the pic post board where you came from.

Prove that I'm a surfer asswipe!

03-20-2005, 04:08 PM	#1
jawanda Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,040	So how do we get through to all these Christians in the U.S.... ...and inform them that the President they so love is NOT a Christian in any biblical sense of the term, but actually someone who is hurting their church and going directly against the word of God according to His own Book? Seems simple enough, but I think it will take some serious silent infiltration into the chruch as well as a lot of $$ to accomplish. But oh! what a worthy cause. I'm not even a Christian, but I so desire to see the Church restored to it's original moral principles / ideals within my lifetime. George Bush a Christian ... ... about as much as I'm a Hindu, and yet so many of his supporters consider him a Religious Leader. It's very unnerving. Ideas? -P

03-20-2005, 05:09 PM	#8
NoCarrier We need more free porn Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 16,356	__________________

03-20-2005, 07:39 PM	#12
titmowse Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: TEXAS Posts: 5,320	Fundies love to take the Jesus out of Christianity. You think James Dobson or Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell follow these words? Then said Jesus unto his disciples, "Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." __________________ I still love everybody

03-20-2005, 08:30 PM	#14
PHPdude Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,164	the editorial cartoon does make sense __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60. Let me repeat... A 120 x 60 button and no more that 3 lines of DEFAULT SIZE AND COLOR text.

03-20-2005, 08:39 PM	#15
uno RIP Dodger. BEST.CAT.EVER Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: NYC Area Posts: 18,450	New User... Everything you said in your post about treating religious people with respect was kind of nullified that by the fact that you called regligous people mindless easily led sheep who fear the boogeyman. __________________ -uno icq: 111-914 CrazyBabe.com - porn art MojoHost - For all your hosting needs, present and future. Tell them I sent ya!

03-20-2005, 04:16 PM	#2
spentrent Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: LA Posts: 876	You CANNOT talk sense to people who are inherently allergic to sense.

03-20-2005, 04:34 PM	#4
jawanda Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,040	interesting point indeed.

03-20-2005, 04:48 PM	#5
SuckOnThis So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In my head Posts: 6,844	"The mission of the Christian Coalition is simple," says Pat Robertson. It is "to mobilize Christians -- one precinct at a time, one community at a time -- until once again we are the head and not the tail, and at the top rather than the bottom of our political system." Robertson predicts that "the Christian Coalition will be the most powerful political force in America by the end of this decade." And, "We have enough votes to run this country...and when the people say, 'We've had enough,' we're going to take over!"--Pat Robertson

03-20-2005, 05:23 PM	#11
aico Moo Moo Cow Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Washington State Posts: 14,748	Religion is Evil!!!

03-21-2005, 01:34 AM	#26
Centurion Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: SeATtle Posts: 6,033	I think the Military should use this "new found religion" that has supposedly erupted in this country. They could use it in their recruiting slogan: "Join The Army, Go to Iraq, Meet Jesus sooner than expected!" Seems to me you would a HUGE Christian Jihad taking place then. __________________

03-21-2005, 04:36 AM	#28
reynold Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Global Traveler Posts: 51,271	Interesting post.