My thoughts about this biz - GoFuckYourself.com

sweetcuties · 02-19-2005, 07:18 AM

Before I say what I have to, you can agree or disagree. I'm gonna let it all out. I've seen alot of shit over the past 5yrs and here's my thoughts.

Over the past few weeks, I've had the opportunity to see the members area of various sites. Many of the sites that are highly promoted have the worst members area! Some are good, but for the most part, the members area are 100% shit! I saw one of my competitors sites and his site hasn't been updated since 03. As a surfer, I would be pissed! I downloaded a famous video and the "money shot" wasn't included with the membership. I would have to join another site, shell out $29.95 to see the ending. What kind of shit is that! As a surfer, I would be pissed and cb or refund.

This biz is 2 parts traffic and content, not 1 or the other.

a. For ex, What's the point in sending traffic to a shitty members area? The customer will cb, refund and most likely, you won't see them as a future customer. Is it worth risking your account for a sale? Shit... surfers are getting smarter and the shit that flew a few yrs ago, doesn't fly today! Remember the basic rules of biz, it easier to maintain a current customer rather than acquiring a new one. Same rule applys to this biz. It's simple biz 101.

b. How many webmasters have come and gone in this biz. Would you rather make bulk $$ (with the potential to piss off fellow webmasters and loose your rep) then bail out or slowly maintain $$ and build with a decent rep. I'll never understand that. Once your rep is gone, you're done! Just because you do biz online, people don't forget.

c. To keep the customer, you need to provide a quality service or product. Think about it, Would you rebuy a product or service you weren't satisfied with? The same rules appy in adult. The key shouldn't be to scam or mislead the surfer. Honestly, put yourself in the surfers position... if you join a site, would you be happy seeing something that was promised but wasn't?

d. I don't care about the politics or bs in this biz. For the ones that are knowing pushing sites with a great tour and a crap members area, you are slowing destroying this biz and taking potential future sales away from everyone else.

I think I got the main points out

8 Characters · 02-19-2005, 07:20 AM

I agree with most of what you've said.

Well written.

bigdog · 02-19-2005, 07:24 AM

would you rather make 10 million dollars in 2 year running shitty members areas and cross selling to death or make 10 million dollars in 6 years running a nice legit program

body · 02-19-2005, 07:24 AM

Very well written, great post!

xlogger · 02-19-2005, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetcuties

Over the past few weeks, I've had the opportunity to see the members area of various sites. Many of the sites that are highly promoted have the worst members area! Some are good, but for the most part, the members area are 100% shit! I saw one of my competitors sites and his site hasn't been updated since 03. As a surfer, I would be pissed!

Can you tell me which sponsor it was so that i can stop promoting them, if i do already. thanks.

sweetcuties · 02-19-2005, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdog

would you rather make 10 million dollars in 2 year running shitty members areas and cross selling to death or make 10 million dollars in 6 years running a nice legit program

Hmm, interesting. I'm in this biz for the long term, so for me it would be 6yrs. I've got other businesess and investments

Rui · 02-19-2005, 07:37 AM

You summed it pretty good.

Sadly thats the truth about this industry....

Zester · 02-19-2005, 07:41 AM

i could'nt agree more with everything you said

Pete · 02-19-2005, 07:43 AM

bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla

Prof.Dr. Den · 02-19-2005, 07:44 AM

i totally agree, some of the webmasters just dont care about the surfers

OG LennyT · 02-19-2005, 07:45 AM

great words well spoken. I totally agree

Zester · 02-19-2005, 07:49 AM

i want to add something about niche sites.

give the surfer what he is looking more - not what you think is sexy.
access to 76 sites in 1 join is not what a guy that is looking for a certain content wants.

a surfer that joins a boot fetish site does'nt want to see cum shots in the members section
a surfer that joins a foot fetish site does'nt want to see hugge boobs shots in the members section
a surfer that joins a balloon fetish site does'nt want to see harcore videos in the members section

do you get the picture?

no, you DON'T, because site owners will keep the targeted content in the tours and keep everything else in the members section, and then they will blame the webmaster for none converting traffic - STUPID !!!

xlogger · 02-19-2005, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla

sweetcuties · 02-19-2005, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zester

i want something about niche sites.

give the surfer what he is looking more - not what you think is sexy.
access to 76 sites in 1 join is not what a guy that is looking for a certain content wants.

a surfer that joins a boot fetish site does'nt want to see cum shots in the members section
a surfer that joins a foot fetish site does'nt want to see hugge boobs shots in the members section
a surfer that joins a balloon fetish site does'nt want to see harcore videos in the members section

do you get the picture?

no, you DON'T, because site owners will keep the targeted content in the tours and keep everything else in the members section, and then they will blame the webmaster for none converting traffic - STUPID !!!

that's exactly my point

JFPdude · 02-19-2005, 07:59 AM

I have seen the inside of many members areas as a tech and as a paid member. I must say yours is one of the best I have seen ... keep up the good work and don't listen to the bs

RRACY · 02-19-2005, 08:05 AM

This may have been entirely true two years ago before topbucks copied nastydollars with backseatbangers,but not in todays market. Topbucks,TCG, Platinum bucks, PimpRoll, bangbros, and at least a few more have substantial content and updates. ATK and Karups have been since the beginning providing alot of exclusive content to their members. Today there is a better chance the members will feel satisfied with their membership.

TheSaint · 02-19-2005, 08:09 AM

Yep completely agree. I would add to your list a number of sites that "trick" the surfer into signing up for a recurring membership with tiny asterisks and fine priint (I am shocked CCbill makes this so easy and allows it).

Most sites are shit, know they are going to get one month membership only, so they fuck the surfer as much as possible on the way in.

tungsten · 02-19-2005, 08:10 AM

the sites you looked over are probably from mediocre sponsors.. i doubt any big sponsors will have shitty members area

rebel23 · 02-19-2005, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zester

no, you DON'T, because site owners will keep the targeted content in the tours and keep everything else in the members section, and then they will blame the webmaster for none converting traffic - STUPID !!!

good points

$5 submissions · 02-19-2005, 08:14 AM

Traffic drives this biz. Unfortunately, most of the tried and true free methods of 3 to 5 years ago have either gone into paid models, suffered legal restrictions, technical changes and suffered other detrimental changes. One definitely needs to have a diverse traffic portfolio in order to weather possible storms ahead. I've personally known webmasters in the past who were making 12K to 40K monthly as affiliates break down to barely 1K a month because of their traffic dependence on one technology or one traffic source. They key is to always have a back up... at least one that will sustain you while you get newer streams going. It's okay to fall down once in a while... as long as you climb even higher hills after you get back up.

OG LennyT · 02-19-2005, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSaint

I would add to your list a number of sites that "trick" the surfer into signing up for a recurring membership with tiny asterisks and fine priint (I am shocked CCbill makes this so easy and allows it).

dont hate on CCBill, they are a processor and it is the webmaster's job to clearly point out the subscription will be recurring. If you see an example of total abuse, report em to CCBill and I guarantee they will look into it.

Tipsy · 02-19-2005, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetcuties

....and most likely, you won't see them as a future customer.

That's the key point that oh so many using sites like that to make money miss. I suppose not a problem if you're in this for the very short term, but do that for long enough and it simply gets harder and harder to get new customers. Once bitten and all that.

Give them what they want and chances are that even if they do cancel they'll be back at a later stage for more. Anyone who's run a successful site with a GOOD members area and content for any length of time can back that up.

sweetcuties · 02-19-2005, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFPdude

I have seen the inside of many members areas as a tech and as a paid member. I must say yours is one of the best I have seen ... keep up the good work and don't listen to the bs

Hey man, it's been while=) What's new? Hope things are cool. Thanks for the feedback. Actually, I've spent the last 2-3mths cleaning up the members area of all my sites. I redid the vid's and other stuff.

TheSaint · 02-19-2005, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvd316

dont hate on CCBill, they are a processor and it is the webmaster's job to clearly point out the subscription will be recurring. If you see an example of total abuse, report em to CCBill and I guarantee they will look into it.

I don't "hate" ccbill, but am just surprised they would endorse such a blatant metod of tricking surfers. The default signup page clearly shows the terms of each join, but you can arrange to replace some of the them with an asterisk. If you have seen sites that do this its pretty obvious the sole intention is to trick the surfer.

CCBill totally controls the signup process, not the program. They could close this loophole if they wanted.

Queen Of A's · 02-19-2005, 08:22 AM

i agree to!

Zester · 02-19-2005, 08:25 AM

well, no matter
the mass amount of free content on tgp's will kill every content site there is

$5 submissions · 02-19-2005, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zester

well, no matter
the mass amount of free content on tgp's will kill every content site there is

I keep hearing this year after year. But year after year you see new programs popping up and doing quite well for themselves.

Furious_Female · 02-19-2005, 08:45 AM

I agree with you 100%. I don't own any sites, I just send traffic to affliate programs and I blantantly ask all my sponsors before I send to a certain site; "Is the members area good?" because I do NOT like to piss off the surfers who join. People will complain and/or chargeback for no reason at all... I don't like to give them reasons to be unsatisfied. I have a conscience and I feel really bad when people pay a LOT of money $40/$50+ for virtually nothing but short vids and a few pics.

Why does this industry (program/site owners) feel the need to have 9 kajillion different cookie cutter sites, instead of having a few high quality, regularly updated, mega sites? This should be about quality, not quantity. A bad/flimsy members area is like buying a magazine that is full of ads to buy more magazines inside. It's bad business and slowly, but surely hurts everybody in the industry.

Do you know how many hours an average person has to work to pay for a monthly membership? 2-5 hours more than likely... and what do they get for their money? Designers/producers need to start building and updating from a surfer's point of view. Surfers not only want to see what they paid for, but they want to see it as soon as possible. A porn site isn't a savory piece of candy that they want to chew slowly. They want fast, easy access/navigation to what they came to see... and I don't blame them. Time is money. I don't like wasting my time on any type of site that is lengthy and fluffed with extra crap, I'm sure surfers don't either.

I'm all for making money, but I also believe in delivering what people pay for or as close to their expectations as possible. It doesn't make me feel good to know people are potentially being ripped off (not saying that happens, but again, from their point of view...)

This industry needs higher standards all the way around. I don't push really hardcore sites... I do mainly cam site type of things, with no nudity on my pages... but I believe it would be in everyone's interest to contribute to better quality sites and in return have more satisfied, returning customers.

Rui · 02-19-2005, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tungsten

the sites you looked over are probably from mediocre sponsors.. i doubt any big sponsors will have shitty members area

Actualy you are wrong, very very wrong

suesheboy · 02-19-2005, 08:52 AM

Sad to say, most paysites suck.

Thats why I sell mostly toys!

swedguy · 02-19-2005, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdog

would you rather make 10 million dollars in 2 year running shitty members areas and cross selling to death or make 10 million dollars in 6 years running a nice legit program

Pretty much how I was gonna sum it up.

Some are in it for the long run. Have a great partnership program, member area and are going for rebillers.
Some are not in it for the long run. Pay a lot per signup, get huge amount of traffic and then cross and up sell to hell.

monaro · 02-19-2005, 09:03 AM

All paying members should gain access to the money shots in the members area.
Yep, put yourself in the surfers position.. Think like the surfer. Dish up the content
fast for the hungry eyes inside the members areas.
Stickyness and the quality of a website that attracts members to return to the site again and again.

jayeff · 02-19-2005, 09:14 AM

On one level I agree with the original poster. I have run three successful businesses in my life, all of them based solidly on delivering to customers what they expect. I don't enjoy working in online porn because it's a lot like working in a seedy Soho nightclub, instead of the Pl*yboy Club, a mile away in Park Lane (as was).

And there is no doubt that the likes of Karup, Scoreland and ATK provide a better product and see customer loyalty as a result. But they also have the advantage that they can and I'm not sure this is true for every kind of porn. Porn is about fantasy, specifically fantasies involving the degradation of women (or men). Sites on the border between erotica and porn, have a relatively easy job because their surfers are only looking for naked women. But the market for softcore porn is relatively small, so many are going to attempt to cater for more extreme fantasies. I'm not sure it is possible to be successful beyond a certain point. For example, as a fantasy, a fat midget being gangbanged by a bunch of masked men may work. But at least via photos or movies over the 'Net, is the ultimately mundane reality something that many people will pay to see for more than a month or two?

I'm not saying that those who deliver second-rate sites have thought much about this. The majority started their businesses when the market was easy and the smoke and mirror practises are as much a consequence of their characters as of good business sense. But if they or newcomers do start trying to keep customers rather than churn them, I think they are going to have a hard time. Think about reality sites: lots of curiosity value, but that's usually going to last for all of 5 minutes because the fantasies they conjure up simply aren't very entertaining when made "real". Most of the solo girl sites suffer the same fate, albeit for different reasons.

So perhaps even if you do deliver what you promised but you are catering for any but mainstream interests, you still won't keep your members. If there is any validity in that thought, the "cowboy" tactics aren't going to be going anywhere, anytime soon.

bigdog · 02-19-2005, 10:21 AM

People mention surfers charging back, i doubt they are charging back that much or the sponsors with bad members area wouldn't be in biz

Der Schleicher · 02-19-2005, 10:24 AM

well said.

psili · 02-19-2005, 10:32 AM

Here's my $.02 to this thread:

1. Those companies / individuals that bost and brag the most are usually the most vapid, empty and have very little in regard to substance / content to offer our community.

2. The people in it for the quick buck are not uncommon to other industries as well; there will always be people with limited value sets and people who value honest business.

3. Free content will never kill the paysite model. I've personally seen that when we raised our paysite price from $15 to $30 our joins went up. Even if the thinking is flawed, I think people see value associated with a price-tag and free content (even if it's better than paid-for content) just doesn't hold that same value. It's like when Lexus was just an overpriced Camery (back in the day) -- people still bought into the inflated price tag.

Blah blah blah.....

psili · 02-19-2005, 10:34 AM

Here's my $.02 to this thread:

1. Those companies / individuals that bost and brag the most are usually the most vapid, empty and have very little in regard to substance / content to offer our community.

2. The people in it for the quick buck are not uncommon to other industries as well; there will always be people with limited value sets and people who value honest business. However, it goes to the old saying: The candle that burns at both ends burns twice as fast. Individuals can only slash and burn for so long until there's nothing let for them and they're fucked.

3. Free content will never kill the paysite model. I've personally seen that when we raised our paysite price from $15 to $30 our joins went up. Even if the thinking is flawed, I think people see value associated with a price-tag and free content (even if it's better than paid-for content) just doesn't hold that same value. It's like when Lexus was just an overpriced Camery (back in the day) -- people still bought into the inflated price tag.

Blah blah blah.....

axelcat · 02-19-2005, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8 Characters

I agree with most of what you've said.

Well written.

you must be a juicy fan, hes all over your sig

sweetcuties · 02-19-2005, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psili

Here's my $.02 to this thread:

1. Those companies / individuals that bost and brag the most are usually the most vapid, empty and have very little in regard to substance / content to offer our community.

2. The people in it for the quick buck are not uncommon to other industries as well; there will always be people with limited value sets and people who value honest business. However, it goes to the old saying: The candle that burns at both ends burns twice as fast. Individuals can only slash and burn for so long until there's nothing let for them and they're fucked.

3. Free content will never kill the paysite model. I've personally seen that when we raised our paysite price from $15 to $30 our joins went up. Even if the thinking is flawed, I think people see value associated with a price-tag and free content (even if it's better than paid-for content) just doesn't hold that same value. It's like when Lexus was just an overpriced Camery (back in the day) -- people still bought into the inflated price tag.

Blah blah blah.....

Yep, I agree

Zester · 02-20-2005, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

I keep hearing this year after year. But year after year you see new programs popping up and doing quite well for themselves.

ok , so you tell me why should a surfer pay for porn when he can find it for free daily?

onlymovies · 02-20-2005, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zester

ok , so you tell me why should a surfer pay for porn when he can find it for free daily?

What don't you ask one of the many thousands of surfers that sign up to paysites on a daily basis..

bigdog · 02-20-2005, 05:41 AM

A good question is do the quality and exclusivity of your content really matter when you are doing thousands of joins a day?

flashfreak · 02-20-2005, 05:46 AM

I totally agree with this.
getting new members is easier than keeping the old ones.. some people just don't understand the real money are in recurring

groark · 02-20-2005, 06:56 AM

I was able to get a look into the TCG-Sites members area and it was all fine.
But of course there are shitty rip-off sites... That aren't news...

bigdog · 02-20-2005, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groark

I was able to get a look into the TCG-Sites members area and it was all fine.
But of course there are shitty rip-off sites... That aren't news...

what do you mean by shitty rip off site?

Rui · 02-20-2005, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdog

what do you mean by shitty rip off site?

wtf...

" bigdog
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,946
"

Gottis · 02-20-2005, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zester

ok , so you tell me why should a surfer pay for porn when he can find it for free daily?

How retarded are you

chodadog · 02-20-2005, 11:39 AM

You Got A Great Tour, But Your Member Section Sucks!

BlackCrayon · 02-20-2005, 11:47 AM

someone should make a members section review site for webmasters. if ppl decided to promote certain programs based on the quality of the members area, i think you would see less sponsors doing this.

Pete-KT · 02-20-2005, 11:49 AM

Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla

02-19-2005, 07:18 AM	#1
sweetcuties Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 5,859	My thoughts about this biz Before I say what I have to, you can agree or disagree. I'm gonna let it all out. I've seen alot of shit over the past 5yrs and here's my thoughts. Over the past few weeks, I've had the opportunity to see the members area of various sites. Many of the sites that are highly promoted have the worst members area! Some are good, but for the most part, the members area are 100% shit! I saw one of my competitors sites and his site hasn't been updated since 03. As a surfer, I would be pissed! I downloaded a famous video and the "money shot" wasn't included with the membership. I would have to join another site, shell out $29.95 to see the ending. What kind of shit is that! As a surfer, I would be pissed and cb or refund. This biz is 2 parts traffic and content, not 1 or the other. a. For ex, What's the point in sending traffic to a shitty members area? The customer will cb, refund and most likely, you won't see them as a future customer. Is it worth risking your account for a sale? Shit... surfers are getting smarter and the shit that flew a few yrs ago, doesn't fly today! Remember the basic rules of biz, it easier to maintain a current customer rather than acquiring a new one. Same rule applys to this biz. It's simple biz 101. b. How many webmasters have come and gone in this biz. Would you rather make bulk $$ (with the potential to piss off fellow webmasters and loose your rep) then bail out or slowly maintain $$ and build with a decent rep. I'll never understand that. Once your rep is gone, you're done! Just because you do biz online, people don't forget. c. To keep the customer, you need to provide a quality service or product. Think about it, Would you rebuy a product or service you weren't satisfied with? The same rules appy in adult. The key shouldn't be to scam or mislead the surfer. Honestly, put yourself in the surfers position... if you join a site, would you be happy seeing something that was promised but wasn't? d. I don't care about the politics or bs in this biz. For the ones that are knowing pushing sites with a great tour and a crap members area, you are slowing destroying this biz and taking potential future sales away from everyone else. I think I got the main points out __________________

02-19-2005, 07:24 AM	#4
body Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 5,015	Very well written, great post! __________________ The Goddess Of Steps

02-19-2005, 07:41 AM	#8
Zester Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,344	i could'nt agree more with everything you said __________________ * Mainstream ? $65 per sale * new male contraception

02-19-2005, 07:43 AM	#9
Pete Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Mr. Rogers Neighborhood Posts: 6,617	bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla __________________ Evoke Electronics

02-19-2005, 07:45 AM	#11
OG LennyT Wall Street Pimp Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 14,345	great words well spoken. I totally agree __________________ Tradeking - my online broker \| 4.95 a trade \| make real $$

02-19-2005, 07:20 AM	#2
8 Characters So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: This month's character: Dirty Franck Posts: 2,336	I agree with most of what you've said. Well written.

02-19-2005, 07:24 AM	#3
bigdog Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 6,964	would you rather make 10 million dollars in 2 year running shitty members areas and cross selling to death or make 10 million dollars in 6 years running a nice legit program

02-19-2005, 07:37 AM	#7
Rui web Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: On icq: 85-483-060 Posts: 9,533	You summed it pretty good. Sadly thats the truth about this industry....

02-19-2005, 07:44 AM	#10
Prof.Dr. Den Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: .de Posts: 442	i totally agree, some of the webmasters just dont care about the surfers

02-19-2005, 07:49 AM	#12
Zester Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,344	i want to add something about niche sites. give the surfer what he is looking more - not what you think is sexy. access to 76 sites in 1 join is not what a guy that is looking for a certain content wants. a surfer that joins a boot fetish site does'nt want to see cum shots in the members section a surfer that joins a foot fetish site does'nt want to see hugge boobs shots in the members section a surfer that joins a balloon fetish site does'nt want to see harcore videos in the members section do you get the picture? no, you DON'T, because site owners will keep the targeted content in the tours and keep everything else in the members section, and then they will blame the webmaster for none converting traffic - STUPID !!! __________________ * Mainstream ? $65 per sale * new male contraception Last edited by Zester; 02-19-2005 at 07:50 AM..

02-19-2005, 07:59 AM	#15
JFPdude Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Mountains of Western North Carolina. Posts: 4,027	I have seen the inside of many members areas as a tech and as a paid member. I must say yours is one of the best I have seen ... keep up the good work and don't listen to the bs

02-19-2005, 08:05 AM	#16
RRACY Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,393	This may have been entirely true two years ago before topbucks copied nastydollars with backseatbangers,but not in todays market. Topbucks,TCG, Platinum bucks, PimpRoll, bangbros, and at least a few more have substantial content and updates. ATK and Karups have been since the beginning providing alot of exclusive content to their members. Today there is a better chance the members will feel satisfied with their membership.

02-19-2005, 08:09 AM	#17
TheSaint Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Everywhere at once Posts: 991	Yep completely agree. I would add to your list a number of sites that "trick" the surfer into signing up for a recurring membership with tiny asterisks and fine priint (I am shocked CCbill makes this so easy and allows it). Most sites are shit, know they are going to get one month membership only, so they fuck the surfer as much as possible on the way in. __________________ I have no signature

02-19-2005, 08:10 AM	#18
tungsten Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 10,579	the sites you looked over are probably from mediocre sponsors.. i doubt any big sponsors will have shitty members area __________________ VOYEUR /HOMEMADE, HENTAI / CARTOON, Reality, Amateur, Shemale, Hardcore, Cuckold, Celebrity, Retro/Vintage, ect...ALL OUR SITES >> Unbelievable Ratio \| High % of Rebills \| Bi-Monthly Payments (also to E-Passporte) Ton's of EXCLUSIVE Free content & FHG's \|=> GREAT REVENUE $$$ GUARANTEED!

02-19-2005, 08:14 AM	#20
$5 submissions I help you SUCCEED Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Pearl of the Orient Seas Posts: 32,195	Traffic drives this biz. Unfortunately, most of the tried and true free methods of 3 to 5 years ago have either gone into paid models, suffered legal restrictions, technical changes and suffered other detrimental changes. One definitely needs to have a diverse traffic portfolio in order to weather possible storms ahead. I've personally known webmasters in the past who were making 12K to 40K monthly as affiliates break down to barely 1K a month because of their traffic dependence on one technology or one traffic source. They key is to always have a back up... at least one that will sustain you while you get newer streams going. It's okay to fall down once in a while... as long as you climb even higher hills after you get back up. __________________ Need a NON-ADULT income stream? We build your YOUTUBE CHANNEL for only $20 per video! For Hire: $3/hour or $400 per month Marketing Specialist Virtual Assistants

02-19-2005, 08:22 AM	#25
Queen Of A's Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Panama Posts: 12	i agree to! __________________ The Internet's #1 Casino Affiliate Program [email protected] Choose from over 30+ top converting casino sites now!

02-19-2005, 08:25 AM	#26
Zester Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,344	well, no matter the mass amount of free content on tgp's will kill every content site there is __________________ * Mainstream ? $65 per sale * new male contraception

02-19-2005, 08:45 AM	#28
Furious_Female Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Upstate, New York Posts: 8,187	I agree with you 100%. I don't own any sites, I just send traffic to affliate programs and I blantantly ask all my sponsors before I send to a certain site; "Is the members area good?" because I do NOT like to piss off the surfers who join. People will complain and/or chargeback for no reason at all... I don't like to give them reasons to be unsatisfied. I have a conscience and I feel really bad when people pay a LOT of money $40/$50+ for virtually nothing but short vids and a few pics. Why does this industry (program/site owners) feel the need to have 9 kajillion different cookie cutter sites, instead of having a few high quality, regularly updated, mega sites? This should be about quality, not quantity. A bad/flimsy members area is like buying a magazine that is full of ads to buy more magazines inside. It's bad business and slowly, but surely hurts everybody in the industry. Do you know how many hours an average person has to work to pay for a monthly membership? 2-5 hours more than likely... and what do they get for their money? Designers/producers need to start building and updating from a surfer's point of view. Surfers not only want to see what they paid for, but they want to see it as soon as possible. A porn site isn't a savory piece of candy that they want to chew slowly. They want fast, easy access/navigation to what they came to see... and I don't blame them. Time is money. I don't like wasting my time on any type of site that is lengthy and fluffed with extra crap, I'm sure surfers don't either. I'm all for making money, but I also believe in delivering what people pay for or as close to their expectations as possible. It doesn't make me feel good to know people are potentially being ripped off (not saying that happens, but again, from their point of view...) This industry needs higher standards all the way around. I don't push really hardcore sites... I do mainly cam site type of things, with no nudity on my pages... but I believe it would be in everyone's interest to contribute to better quality sites and in return have more satisfied, returning customers. __________________ Skype: j3nn.com ICQ 160370494 My current favorite high-converting sponsor: CrakRevenue

02-19-2005, 08:52 AM	#30
suesheboy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: FL - TN/NC Posts: 5,211	Sad to say, most paysites suck. Thats why I sell mostly toys! __________________ Adult Web Site Domain Names For Sale Adult Sex Toy Domain Names For Sale Tantric Delights, Sex Toys Blog, Tantric Sex Toys

02-19-2005, 09:03 AM	#32
monaro Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Queensland. Posts: 968	All paying members should gain access to the money shots in the members area. Yep, put yourself in the surfers position.. Think like the surfer. Dish up the content fast for the hungry eyes inside the members areas. Stickyness and the quality of a website that attracts members to return to the site again and again.

02-19-2005, 09:14 AM	#33
jayeff Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 2,944	On one level I agree with the original poster. I have run three successful businesses in my life, all of them based solidly on delivering to customers what they expect. I don't enjoy working in online porn because it's a lot like working in a seedy Soho nightclub, instead of the Plyboy Club, a mile away in Park Lane (as was). And there is no doubt that the likes of Karup, Scoreland and ATK provide a better product and see customer loyalty as a result. But they also have the advantage that they can* and I'm not sure this is true for every kind of porn. Porn is about fantasy, specifically fantasies involving the degradation of women (or men). Sites on the border between erotica and porn, have a relatively easy job because their surfers are only looking for naked women. But the market for softcore porn is relatively small, so many are going to attempt to cater for more extreme fantasies. I'm not sure it is possible to be successful beyond a certain point. For example, as a fantasy, a fat midget being gangbanged by a bunch of masked men may work. But at least via photos or movies over the 'Net, is the ultimately mundane reality something that many people will pay to see for more than a month or two? I'm not saying that those who deliver second-rate sites have thought much about this. The majority started their businesses when the market was easy and the smoke and mirror practises are as much a consequence of their characters as of good business sense. But if they or newcomers do start trying to keep customers rather than churn them, I think they are going to have a hard time. Think about reality sites: lots of curiosity value, but that's usually going to last for all of 5 minutes because the fantasies they conjure up simply aren't very entertaining when made "real". Most of the solo girl sites suffer the same fate, albeit for different reasons. So perhaps even if you do deliver what you promised but you are catering for any but mainstream interests, you still won't keep your members. If there is any validity in that thought, the "cowboy" tactics aren't going to be going anywhere, anytime soon.

02-19-2005, 10:21 AM	#34
bigdog Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 6,964	People mention surfers charging back, i doubt they are charging back that much or the sponsors with bad members area wouldn't be in biz

02-19-2005, 10:24 AM	#35
Der Schleicher Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,189	well said. __________________ Teeny Teen Girls - One of the best free pictures and videos online. WEBMASTER - We offer free hosting and dream submitter sign up now!

02-19-2005, 10:32 AM	#36
psili Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 5,526	Here's my $.02 to this thread: 1. Those companies / individuals that bost and brag the most are usually the most vapid, empty and have very little in regard to substance / content to offer our community. 2. The people in it for the quick buck are not uncommon to other industries as well; there will always be people with limited value sets and people who value honest business. 3. Free content will never kill the paysite model. I've personally seen that when we raised our paysite price from $15 to $30 our joins went up. Even if the thinking is flawed, I think people see value associated with a price-tag and free content (even if it's better than paid-for content) just doesn't hold that same value. It's like when Lexus was just an overpriced Camery (back in the day) -- people still bought into the inflated price tag. Blah blah blah..... __________________ Your post count means nothing.

02-19-2005, 10:34 AM	#37
psili Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 5,526	Here's my $.02 to this thread: 1. Those companies / individuals that bost and brag the most are usually the most vapid, empty and have very little in regard to substance / content to offer our community. 2. The people in it for the quick buck are not uncommon to other industries as well; there will always be people with limited value sets and people who value honest business. However, it goes to the old saying: The candle that burns at both ends burns twice as fast. Individuals can only slash and burn for so long until there's nothing let for them and they're fucked. 3. Free content will never kill the paysite model. I've personally seen that when we raised our paysite price from $15 to $30 our joins went up. Even if the thinking is flawed, I think people see value associated with a price-tag and free content (even if it's better than paid-for content) just doesn't hold that same value. It's like when Lexus was just an overpriced Camery (back in the day) -- people still bought into the inflated price tag. Blah blah blah..... __________________ Your post count means nothing.

02-20-2005, 05:41 AM	#42
bigdog Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 6,964	A good question is do the quality and exclusivity of your content really matter when you are doing thousands of joins a day?

02-20-2005, 05:46 AM	#43
flashfreak Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: cloud number 9 Posts: 4,396	I totally agree with this. getting new members is easier than keeping the old ones.. some people just don't understand the real money are in recurring __________________ SEO Mogul \| ICQ: 163671223

02-20-2005, 06:56 AM	#44
groark So Fucking Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 1,966	I was able to get a look into the TCG-Sites members area and it was all fine. But of course there are shitty rip-off sites... That aren't news...

02-20-2005, 11:39 AM	#48
chodadog Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 9,736	You Got A Great Tour, But Your Member Section Sucks! __________________ 26 + 6 = 1

02-20-2005, 11:47 AM	#49
BlackCrayon Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ottawa Posts: 19,631	someone should make a members section review site for webmasters. if ppl decided to promote certain programs based on the quality of the members area, i think you would see less sponsors doing this. __________________ you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

02-20-2005, 11:49 AM	#50
Pete-KT Workin With The Devil Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: West Bloomfield, MI Posts: 51,532	Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla