My thoughts about this biz
 

Before I say what I have to, you can agree or disagree. I'm gonna let it all out. I've seen alot of shit over the past 5yrs and here's my thoughts.

Over the past few weeks, I've had the opportunity to see the members area of various sites. Many of the sites that are highly promoted have the worst members area! Some are good, but for the most part, the members area are 100% shit! I saw one of my competitors sites and his site hasn't been updated since 03. As a surfer, I would be pissed! I downloaded a famous video and the "money shot" wasn't included with the membership. I would have to join another site, shell out $29.95 to see the ending. What kind of shit is that! As a surfer, I would be pissed and cb or refund.

This biz is 2 parts traffic and content, not 1 or the other.

a. For ex, What's the point in sending traffic to a shitty members area? The customer will cb, refund and most likely, you won't see them as a future customer. Is it worth risking your account for a sale? Shit... surfers are getting smarter and the shit that flew a few yrs ago, doesn't fly today! Remember the basic rules of biz, it easier to maintain a current customer rather than acquiring a new one. Same rule applys to this biz. It's simple biz 101.

b. How many webmasters have come and gone in this biz. Would you rather make bulk $$ (with the potential to piss off fellow webmasters and loose your rep) then bail out or slowly maintain $$ and build with a decent rep. I'll never understand that. Once your rep is gone, you're done! Just because you do biz online, people don't forget.

c. To keep the customer, you need to provide a quality service or product. Think about it, Would you rebuy a product or service you weren't satisfied with? The same rules appy in adult. The key shouldn't be to scam or mislead the surfer. Honestly, put yourself in the surfers position... if you join a site, would you be happy seeing something that was promised but wasn't?

d. I don't care about the politics or bs in this biz. For the ones that are knowing pushing sites with a great tour and a crap members area, you are slowing destroying this biz and taking potential future sales away from everyone else.

I think I got the main points out :2 cents:

I agree with most of what you've said.

Well written.

would you rather make 10 million dollars in 2 year running shitty members areas and cross selling to death or make 10 million dollars in 6 years running a nice legit program

Very well written, great post!

Can you tell me which sponsor it was so that i can stop promoting them, if i do already. thanks.

Hmm, interesting. I'm in this biz for the long term, so for me it would be 6yrs. I've got other businesess and investments

You summed it pretty good.

Sadly thats the truth about this industry....

i could'nt agree more with everything you said

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i totally agree, some of the webmasters just dont care about the surfers

great words well spoken. I totally agree

i want to add something about niche sites.

give the surfer what he is looking more - not what you think is sexy.
access to 76 sites in 1 join is not what a guy that is looking for a certain content wants.

a surfer that joins a boot fetish site does'nt want to see cum shots in the members section
a surfer that joins a foot fetish site does'nt want to see hugge boobs shots in the members section
a surfer that joins a balloon fetish site does'nt want to see harcore videos in the members section

do you get the picture?

no, you DON'T, because site owners will keep the targeted content in the tours and keep everything else in the members section, and then they will blame the webmaster for none converting traffic - STUPID !!!

:1orglaugh bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla

that's exactly my point

I have seen the inside of many members areas as a tech and as a paid member. I must say yours is one of the best I have seen ... keep up the good work and don't listen to the bs

This may have been entirely true two years ago before topbucks copied nastydollars with backseatbangers,but not in todays market. Topbucks,TCG, Platinum bucks, PimpRoll, bangbros, and at least a few more have substantial content and updates. ATK and Karups have been since the beginning providing alot of exclusive content to their members. Today there is a better chance the members will feel satisfied with their membership.

Yep completely agree. I would add to your list a number of sites that "trick" the surfer into signing up for a recurring membership with tiny asterisks and fine priint (I am shocked CCbill makes this so easy and allows it).

Most sites are shit, know they are going to get one month membership only, so they fuck the surfer as much as possible on the way in.

the sites you looked over are probably from mediocre sponsors.. i doubt any big sponsors will have shitty members area

:1orglaugh good points

Traffic drives this biz. Unfortunately, most of the tried and true free methods of 3 to 5 years ago have either gone into paid models, suffered legal restrictions, technical changes and suffered other detrimental changes. One definitely needs to have a diverse traffic portfolio in order to weather possible storms ahead. I've personally known webmasters in the past who were making 12K to 40K monthly as affiliates break down to barely 1K a month because of their traffic dependence on one technology or one traffic source. They key is to always have a back up... at least one that will sustain you while you get newer streams going. It's okay to fall down once in a while... as long as you climb even higher hills after you get back up.

dont hate on CCBill, they are a processor and it is the webmaster's job to clearly point out the subscription will be recurring. If you see an example of total abuse, report em to CCBill and I guarantee they will look into it. :2 cents:

That's the key point that oh so many using sites like that to make money miss. I suppose not a problem if you're in this for the very short term, but do that for long enough and it simply gets harder and harder to get new customers. Once bitten and all that.

Give them what they want and chances are that even if they do cancel they'll be back at a later stage for more. Anyone who's run a successful site with a GOOD members area and content for any length of time can back that up.

Hey man, it's been while=) What's new? Hope things are cool. Thanks for the feedback. Actually, I've spent the last 2-3mths cleaning up the members area of all my sites. I redid the vid's and other stuff.

I don't "hate" ccbill, but am just surprised they would endorse such a blatant metod of tricking surfers. The default signup page clearly shows the terms of each join, but you can arrange to replace some of the them with an asterisk. If you have seen sites that do this its pretty obvious the sole intention is to trick the surfer.

CCBill totally controls the signup process, not the program. They could close this loophole if they wanted.

i agree to!

well, no matter
the mass amount of free content on tgp's will kill every content site there is

I keep hearing this year after year. But year after year you see new programs popping up and doing quite well for themselves. :2 cents:

I agree with you 100%. I don't own any sites, I just send traffic to affliate programs and I blantantly ask all my sponsors before I send to a certain site; "Is the members area good?" because I do NOT like to piss off the surfers who join. People will complain and/or chargeback for no reason at all... I don't like to give them reasons to be unsatisfied. I have a conscience and I feel really bad when people pay a LOT of money $40/$50+ for virtually nothing but short vids and a few pics.

Why does this industry (program/site owners) feel the need to have 9 kajillion different cookie cutter sites, instead of having a few high quality, regularly updated, mega sites? This should be about quality, not quantity. A bad/flimsy members area is like buying a magazine that is full of ads to buy more magazines inside. It's bad business and slowly, but surely hurts everybody in the industry.

Do you know how many hours an average person has to work to pay for a monthly membership? 2-5 hours more than likely... and what do they get for their money? Designers/producers need to start building and updating from a surfer's point of view. Surfers not only want to see what they paid for, but they want to see it as soon as possible. A porn site isn't a savory piece of candy that they want to chew slowly. They want fast, easy access/navigation to what they came to see... and I don't blame them. Time is money. I don't like wasting my time on any type of site that is lengthy and fluffed with extra crap, I'm sure surfers don't either.

I'm all for making money, but I also believe in delivering what people pay for or as close to their expectations as possible. It doesn't make me feel good to know people are potentially being ripped off (not saying that happens, but again, from their point of view...)

This industry needs higher standards all the way around. I don't push really hardcore sites... I do mainly cam site type of things, with no nudity on my pages... but I believe it would be in everyone's interest to contribute to better quality sites and in return have more satisfied, returning customers.

Actualy you are wrong, very very wrong :2 cents:

Sad to say, most paysites suck.

Thats why I sell mostly toys! :)

Pretty much how I was gonna sum it up.

Some are in it for the long run. Have a great partnership program, member area and are going for rebillers.
Some are not in it for the long run. Pay a lot per signup, get huge amount of traffic and then cross and up sell to hell.

All paying members should gain access to the money shots in the members area.
Yep, put yourself in the surfers position.. Think like the surfer. Dish up the content
fast for the hungry eyes inside the members areas.
Stickyness and the quality of a website that attracts members to return to the site again and again.

On one level I agree with the original poster. I have run three successful businesses in my life, all of them based solidly on delivering to customers what they expect. I don't enjoy working in online porn because it's a lot like working in a seedy Soho nightclub, instead of the Pl*yboy Club, a mile away in Park Lane (as was).

And there is no doubt that the likes of Karup, Scoreland and ATK provide a better product and see customer loyalty as a result. But they also have the advantage that they can and I'm not sure this is true for every kind of porn. Porn is about fantasy, specifically fantasies involving the degradation of women (or men). Sites on the border between erotica and porn, have a relatively easy job because their surfers are only looking for naked women. But the market for softcore porn is relatively small, so many are going to attempt to cater for more extreme fantasies. I'm not sure it is possible to be successful beyond a certain point. For example, as a fantasy, a fat midget being gangbanged by a bunch of masked men may work. But at least via photos or movies over the 'Net, is the ultimately mundane reality something that many people will pay to see for more than a month or two?

I'm not saying that those who deliver second-rate sites have thought much about this. The majority started their businesses when the market was easy and the smoke and mirror practises are as much a consequence of their characters as of good business sense. But if they or newcomers do start trying to keep customers rather than churn them, I think they are going to have a hard time. Think about reality sites: lots of curiosity value, but that's usually going to last for all of 5 minutes because the fantasies they conjure up simply aren't very entertaining when made "real". Most of the solo girl sites suffer the same fate, albeit for different reasons.

So perhaps even if you do deliver what you promised but you are catering for any but mainstream interests, you still won't keep your members. If there is any validity in that thought, the "cowboy" tactics aren't going to be going anywhere, anytime soon.

People mention surfers charging back, i doubt they are charging back that much or the sponsors with bad members area wouldn't be in biz

well said.

Here's my $.02 to this thread:

1. Those companies / individuals that bost and brag the most are usually the most vapid, empty and have very little in regard to substance / content to offer our community.

2. The people in it for the quick buck are not uncommon to other industries as well; there will always be people with limited value sets and people who value honest business.

3. Free content will never kill the paysite model. I've personally seen that when we raised our paysite price from $15 to $30 our joins went up. Even if the thinking is flawed, I think people see value associated with a price-tag and free content (even if it's better than paid-for content) just doesn't hold that same value. It's like when Lexus was just an overpriced Camery (back in the day) -- people still bought into the inflated price tag.

Blah blah blah.....

Here's my $.02 to this thread:

1. Those companies / individuals that bost and brag the most are usually the most vapid, empty and have very little in regard to substance / content to offer our community.

2. The people in it for the quick buck are not uncommon to other industries as well; there will always be people with limited value sets and people who value honest business. However, it goes to the old saying: The candle that burns at both ends burns twice as fast. Individuals can only slash and burn for so long until there's nothing let for them and they're fucked.

3. Free content will never kill the paysite model. I've personally seen that when we raised our paysite price from $15 to $30 our joins went up. Even if the thinking is flawed, I think people see value associated with a price-tag and free content (even if it's better than paid-for content) just doesn't hold that same value. It's like when Lexus was just an overpriced Camery (back in the day) -- people still bought into the inflated price tag.

Blah blah blah.....

you must be a juicy fan, hes all over your sig

Yep, I agree :thumbsup

ok , so you tell me why should a surfer pay for porn when he can find it for free daily?

What don't you ask one of the many thousands of surfers that sign up to paysites on a daily basis..

A good question is do the quality and exclusivity of your content really matter when you are doing thousands of joins a day?

I totally agree with this.
getting new members is easier than keeping the old ones.. some people just don't understand the real money are in recurring

I was able to get a look into the TCG-Sites members area and it was all fine.
But of course there are shitty rip-off sites... That aren't news...

what do you mean by shitty rip off site?

wtf...

" bigdog
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,946
"

:disgust

How retarded are you :1orglaugh

someone should make a members section review site for webmasters. if ppl decided to promote certain programs based on the quality of the members area, i think you would see less sponsors doing this.

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