Proven way to shave with CCBill! - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

modF · 02-09-2005, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedguy

Because they are allowing a sponsor to be able to add form variable that will override the cookie that holds the info WHO sent the surfer. So the problem is their way of handling form+cookies that are sent.

Right, and my example of changing the link to the join page to set a new cookie and new PA link in the form are just as dangerous. I can't believe you are wasting so much time on this.

If you can't trust the sponsor don't use them, it still isn't a CCBill issue.

swedguy · 02-09-2005, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modF

If you can't trust the sponsor don't use them, it still isn't a CCBill issue.

It certainly is.

If a cookie exist, CCBill should not use the variable that can set the webmaster ID.
If a cookie doesn't exist, they can use it.

woj · 02-09-2005, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedguy

It certainly is.

If a cookie exist, CCBill should not use the variable that can set the webmaster ID.
If a cookie doesn't exist, they can use it.

There are 10 other ways to shave with ccbill...
No matter what ccbill does it will still be possible to shave. Same goes for any other affil processor/software, it's not possible to have an affiliate system where shaving is impossible...

fedfest · 02-09-2005, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedguy

The world is full of dumb people.

Several got caught cheating when CCBill made it publicly available if and how long you were getting paid for signups and rebills.

Yeah.. but i doubt those are the ones shaving you

That really just proves my point, when they where able to hide it yes,,

Now that CCbill closed that hole and made it easy to check do you think that would be anyones prefered method of shaving.. NO, too easy to discover right.. Same with the Join page, too easy to discover too if theres shaving going on so anyone with a little sence would do it some other way.. Like hosting their own join page and making the shave after the join..

swedguy · 02-09-2005, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

There are 10 other ways to shave with ccbill...
No matter what ccbill does it will still be possible to shave. Same goes for any other affil processor/software, it's not possible to have an affiliate system where shaving is impossible...

Does that automatically mean that softwares should not be improved or limiting the possibilities for shaving?

I believe it's better the fewer ways there are to shave.

woj · 02-09-2005, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedguy

Does that automatically mean that softwares should not be improved or limiting the possibilities for shaving?

I believe it's better the fewer ways there are to shave.

well, it turns out that there are legitimate uses for setting ccbill_referer variable... removing possible shave feature would also reduce ccbill's functionality...

swedguy · 02-09-2005, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

well, it turns out that there are legitimate uses for setting ccbill_referer variable... removing possible shave feature would also reduce ccbill's functionality...

Tell me the legitimate reason to override the cookie and assign the signup to someone else?

woj · 02-09-2005, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedguy

Tell me the legitimate reason to override the cookie and assign the signup to someone else?

For example, it might be useful if an affiliate program wants to start paying pay per signup and process the payments themselves. So the pay per signup webmasters might send traffic like this: http://www.site.com/?id=123&pay=pps
Then, when the script sees pay=pps, on the join page it sets ccbill_referer to a house account, and then the rest of the sale tracking process is done using a custom script.

swedguy · 02-09-2005, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

For example, it might be useful if an affiliate program wants to start paying pay per signup and process the payments themselves. So the pay per signup webmasters might send traffic like this: http://www.site.com/?id=123&pay=pps
Then, when the script sees pay=pps, on the join page it sets ccbill_referer to a house account, and then the rest of the sale tracking process is done using a custom script.

Then CCBill link codes are not used = no cookie is set.

Theo · 02-09-2005, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

For example, it might be useful if an affiliate program wants to start paying pay per signup and process the payments themselves. So the pay per signup webmasters might send traffic like this: http://www.site.com/?id=123&pay=pps
Then, when the script sees pay=pps, on the join page it sets ccbill_referer to a house account, and then the rest of the sale tracking process is done using a custom script.

why would it do that? You can't track the productive traffic/affiliates that way.

woj · 02-09-2005, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedguy

Then CCBill link codes are not used = no cookie is set.

You could still use ccbill link codes, so old affiliates wouldn't have to change any of their pages.

woj · 02-09-2005, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul_Rebel

why would it do that? You can't track the productive traffic/affiliates that way.

Why wouldn't you be able to?

swedguy · 02-09-2005, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

You could still use ccbill link codes, so old affiliates wouldn't have to change any of their pages.

Since they still process with CCBill just turn on the per signup option in the admin.

woj · 02-09-2005, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedguy

Since they still process with CCBill just turn on the per signup option in the admin.

I meant a situation like installing an affiliate script (mpa3 for example) and not forcing people to change all their old ccbill links. So new webmasters use mpa3, old webmasters continue getting credit for all sales generated through old ccbill linking codes.

Hugh · 02-09-2005, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clickclickclick

if this is drama, im pluggin my wu tang seo shit.

Cash Rules Everything Around Me, CREAM, get tha money, dolla dolla bill y'all!

swedguy · 02-09-2005, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

I meant a situation like installing an affiliate script (mpa3 for example) and not forcing people to change all their old ccbill links. So new webmasters use mpa3, old webmasters continue getting credit for all sales generated through old ccbill linking codes.

Then you use your own join script, not CCBill's.

woj · 02-09-2005, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedguy

Then you use your own join script, not CCBill's.

but then what happens to old affiliates who created 1000s of tgp galleries with the old ccbill links? They have to change them? Or do those links not work anymore?

sandman! · 02-09-2005, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pudcat

How can there be so many morons that have so little technical knowledge?

CCBill should only use that variable IF there is NO cookie.

Interesting CCBill haven't commented yet...

yea you know how ccbill should run thier business.

this thread is funny

there are a million ways for someone to shave if they really want to, some people were smart enought to find a way you could shave using ccbill and now think ccbill has to change things in thier system because there is a slight possibility that someone could use to to shave?

LOL

I would be suprised if someone from ccbill even comments here.

swedguy · 02-09-2005, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

but then what happens to old affiliates who created 1000s of tgp galleries with the old ccbill links? They have to change them? Or do those links not work anymore?

Usually what sponsor do is that they have the old CCBill link code go to a separate tour with the old join page, no need to fiddle with the cookie or anything like that.
Or they force the webmaster to change link codes since they are doing cascading billing (you mentioned MPA3) now and have their own join/billing page, not CCBill's.

swedguy · 02-10-2005, 08:39 AM

Good morning.

Violetta · 02-10-2005, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandman!

LOL

I would be suprised if someone from ccbill even comments here.

They should at least give this a comment!

tradermcduck · 02-10-2005, 09:45 AM

Interesting thread...

fedfest · 02-10-2005, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedguy

Tell me the legitimate reason to override the cookie and assign the signup to someone else?

Just thinking, Couldn't this actually be used as fraud protection..
Let's say you have some advare/spyware installed that changes refferal codes.. Now the adware overwrites the cookie with your refferal id, but the extention then overwrites the cookie changing the sale back to you..

That Imo. would be a pretty damn valid reason for overriding the cookie

swedguy · 02-10-2005, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fedfest

Just thinking, Couldn't this actually be used as fraud protection..
Let's say you have some advare/spyware installed that changes refferal codes.. Now the adware overwrites the cookie with your refferal id, but the extention then overwrites the cookie changing the sale back to you..

That Imo. would be a pretty damn valid reason for overriding the cookie

That's a valid reason, for spyware that changes cookies. But if you weigh it against the shave reason, which is more likely to happen, I don't think it's worth it.
There's spyware that changes form variables directly, then you're pretty much screwed either way

swedguy · 02-10-2005, 11:36 AM

CCBill ?

marttali · 02-10-2005, 12:03 PM

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=429338

i started this one yeasterday, didn't get enough attention.
Basically the same problem but not quite.

So read

Kimmykim · 02-10-2005, 12:43 PM

Personally I dont see why CCBill should comment in this thread. This is not a CCBill issue, this is a matter of trust between the affiliate and the sponsor.

If a sponsor wants to steal from their affiliates, there are as many ways to do it as there are sponsors and affiliates. Billing companies and affiliate program software companies get jumped on day in and day out by affiliates for any and every little thing, whether or not it's a valid issue.

If you don't like your sponsors, or you can't trust your sponsors, start your own paysites and send your traffic to yourselves. Then you can be sure that you're getting exactly what you should. Oh wait, you still can't be sure, there are trojans, spyware, surfers that delete the affiliate links out of the url and re-type in the site name, and countless other things that can happen to fuck up a sale.

Or better yet, fuck CCBill, go get your own merchant account, custom write your own scripts for your own paysites and change up your link structure (after all it's your own traffic) every day or every week so the spyware thieves can't steal your joins, the billing companies can't steal your joins and the sponsor programs can't steal your joins.

There's your answer.

foolio · 02-10-2005, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedguy

If you want to replicate it, all the info is in my post. But I'm not going to say straight out what form variable you need to add. But it's very easy to find.

If it is so easy to find shut the fuck up and stop biching to ccbill about it. Even if they fix this there are always other ways to shave.

At least with this you can find it yourself and then out the program (which you should be doing, by not outing the program you are letting them fuck others)

Wizzo · 02-10-2005, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

Personally I dont see why CCBill should comment in this thread. This is not a CCBill issue, this is a matter of trust between the affiliate and the sponsor.

If a sponsor wants to steal from their affiliates, there are as many ways to do it as there are sponsors and affiliates. Billing companies and affiliate program software companies get jumped on day in and day out by affiliates for any and every little thing, whether or not it's a valid issue.

If you don't like your sponsors, or you can't trust your sponsors, start your own paysites and send your traffic to yourselves. Then you can be sure that you're getting exactly what you should. Oh wait, you still can't be sure, there are trojans, spyware, surfers that delete the affiliate links out of the url and re-type in the site name, and countless other things that can happen to fuck up a sale.

Or better yet, fuck CCBill, go get your own merchant account, custom write your own scripts for your own paysites and change up your link structure (after all it's your own traffic) every day or every week so the spyware thieves can't steal your joins, the billing companies can't steal your joins and the sponsor programs can't steal your joins.

There's your answer.

Sometimes your posts make me a little stiff...

swedguy · 02-10-2005, 12:55 PM

Kimmykim,

Give me a good reason a sponsor should be able to override the cookie and assign a signup to someone else.

Wizzo · 02-10-2005, 01:15 PM

Maybe because CCbill's client is the sponsor, not the affiliate!

Plus, unless I missed the memo, they are not the internet police...

Kimmykim · 02-10-2005, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizzo

Maybe because CCbill's client is the sponsor, not the affiliate!

Plus, unless I missed the memo, they are not the internet police...

CCBill is not the internet police was my rant from yesterday lol ;)

And yes, their contract is with the sponsor. The sponsor contracts with the affiliates through their terms and conditions.

It's all really simple when you get down to it.

And I hope that's not your back that's stiff ;)

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 02-10-2005, 01:24 PM

swedguy · 02-10-2005, 01:31 PM

So you don't believe in minimizing possibilities to shave?

So far no one has come up with a legit reason for having this "feature".

Kimmykim · 02-10-2005, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedguy

So you don't believe in minimizing possibilities to shave?

So far no one has come up with a legit reason for having this "feature".

What part of if you can't trust a sponsor, don't use them, did you not understand?

whatif_3 · 02-10-2005, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedguy

So far no one has come up with a legit reason for having this "feature".

here is one

when i was running an affilite PPS program, to limit my exposure, i would make deals with affilites (mailers mostly) that during a certain period, i would pay out X amount per signup , up to 80 singups, or 250 signups, or whatever...i told them to keep an eye on the signups and to switch out my codes once that limit was reached, if they oversent, i was able to make the payment adjustment directly in my software, but i can see how people using the ccbill referrer system can do the coding on their end to switch out affilite codes once a # of signups has been surpassed, all with the understanding and agreement of the affilite that this is how it is being done

machinegunkelly · 02-10-2005, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ

those look good

swedguy · 02-10-2005, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

What part of if you can't trust a sponsor, don't use them, did you not understand?

I asked a question. If you don't have anything to contribute, you know what to do.

I'm not talking about sponsors here, I'm talking about C C B i l l and their way of handling the join process.

Kimmykim · 02-10-2005, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedguy

I asked a question. If you don't have anything to contribute, you know what to do.

I'm not talking about sponsors here, I'm talking about C C B i l l and their way of handling the join process.

My contribution made the most sense of anyones, so if you can't handle it then you know what to do. Just make sure you don't fall off your high horse and break a leg on soap box in the process.

swedguy · 02-10-2005, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

My contribution made the most sense of anyones, so if you can't handle it then you know what to do. Just make sure you don't fall off your high horse and break a leg on soap box in the process.

Do you believe in minimizing possibilities to shave?

Kimmykim · 02-10-2005, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedguy

Do you believe in minimizing possibilities to shave?

For the last time, if you can't trust your sponsor, then don't send them traffic.

There is nothing more simple than that.

swedguy · 02-10-2005, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

For the last time, if you can't trust your sponsor, then don't send them traffic.

There is nothing more simple than that.

My question is really simple. You only need to answer YES or NO.

swedguy · 02-10-2005, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatif_3

here is one

when i was running an affilite PPS program, to limit my exposure, i would make deals with affilites (mailers mostly) that during a certain period, i would pay out X amount per signup , up to 80 singups, or 250 signups, or whatever...i told them to keep an eye on the signups and to switch out my codes once that limit was reached, if they oversent, i was able to make the payment adjustment directly in my software, but i can see how people using the ccbill referrer system can do the coding on their end to switch out affilite codes once a # of signups has been surpassed, all with the understanding and agreement of the affilite that this is how it is being done

Interesting. That's one use for it.

Did you only host the join page or the whole tour?

Wolfy · 02-10-2005, 02:38 PM

Swedguy, you are absolutely correct in this, your goal is honorable and I hpope the people who really need to understand your point catch it - ie, ccbill.

Listen everyone, what he's saying is there is a flaw in the ccbill system that would be extremely easy for them to fix if they chose to. Assuming they decide to fix this, the end result is a cleaner system that is more beneficial to webmasters - unless you run a paysite that uses the technique in question here, you should be 100% behind Swedguy.

I am.

whatif_3 · 02-10-2005, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedguy

Interesting. That's one use for it.

Did you only host the join page or the whole tour?

thanks, whole tour, you can really only do so much restrictions without affecting the functionality of a system

are you really going to demand that the 70% or more of programs using the *last cookie set gets the credit* rules change them to something not as effective overall because there is a possibility that they may insert their own cookie on the join page? no, of course not

Babagirls · 02-10-2005, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfy

Swedguy, you are absolutely correct in this, your goal is honorable and I hpope the people who really need to understand your point catch it - ie, ccbill.

Listen everyone, what he's saying is there is a flaw in the ccbill system that would be extremely easy for them to fix if they chose to. Assuming they decide to fix this, the end result is a cleaner system that is more beneficial to webmasters - unless you run a paysite that uses the technique in question here, you should be 100% behind Swedguy.

I am.

very nicely said, Wolfy.

Kimmykim · 02-10-2005, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedguy

My question is really simple. You only need to answer YES or NO.

I don't have to answer anything any way other than how I want to. I haven't been an affiliate in years, I don't run a sponsor program.

I do happen to know that you don't do business with people you don't trust.

power182 · 02-10-2005, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfy

Swedguy, you are absolutely correct in this, your goal is honorable and I hpope the people who really need to understand your point catch it - ie, ccbill.

Listen everyone, what he's saying is there is a flaw in the ccbill system that would be extremely easy for them to fix if they chose to. Assuming they decide to fix this, the end result is a cleaner system that is more beneficial to webmasters - unless you run a paysite that uses the technique in question here, you should be 100% behind Swedguy.

I am.

It has legit uses as posted above...... so is it a flaw or a feature that *CAN* be misused? I for one dont see it as a flaw, but rather a feature that *CAN* be misused. I can think of at least 10 more uses for it other than what has been mentioned. CCBill is the processor, they provide tools to their clients. How their clients use those tools is up to them.

woj · 02-10-2005, 02:55 PM

150 proven ways to shave....

Wolfy · 02-10-2005, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by power182

It has legit uses as posted above...... so is it a flaw or a feature that *CAN* be misused? I for one dont see it as a flaw, but rather a feature that *CAN* be misused. I can think of at least 10 more uses for it other than what has been mentioned. CCBill is the processor, they provide tools to their clients. How their clients use those tools is up to them.

If it can be misused, that's one thing. If it IS being misused, it should be stopped, and ccbill has the power to do so.

The question is, do you think they should put a stop to it? I do.

02-10-2005, 09:45 AM	#122
tradermcduck Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Europe - By the way I know my nickname sucks ;-) Posts: 2,362	Interesting thread... __________________ MarkB

02-10-2005, 01:15 PM	#131
Wizzo 2011 GFY Hall of Fame! Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Back in Texas! Posts: 15,224	Maybe because CCbill's client is the sponsor, not the affiliate! Plus, unless I missed the memo, they are not the internet police... __________________ Looking for Opportunity!

02-10-2005, 01:24 PM	#133
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	__________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

02-10-2005, 02:55 PM	#149
woj <&(©¿©)&> Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 47,882	150 proven ways to shave.... __________________ Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000 Affiliate program tools: Hosted Galleries Manager Banner Manager Video Manager Wordpress Affiliate Plugin Pic/Movie of the Day Fansign Generator Zip Manager

02-10-2005, 08:39 AM	#120
swedguy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,981	Good morning.

02-10-2005, 11:36 AM	#125
swedguy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,981	CCBill ?

02-10-2005, 12:03 PM	#126
marttali Confirmed User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 265	http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=429338 i started this one yeasterday, didn't get enough attention. Basically the same problem but not quite. So read

02-10-2005, 12:43 PM	#127
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Personally I dont see why CCBill should comment in this thread. This is not a CCBill issue, this is a matter of trust between the affiliate and the sponsor. If a sponsor wants to steal from their affiliates, there are as many ways to do it as there are sponsors and affiliates. Billing companies and affiliate program software companies get jumped on day in and day out by affiliates for any and every little thing, whether or not it's a valid issue. If you don't like your sponsors, or you can't trust your sponsors, start your own paysites and send your traffic to yourselves. Then you can be sure that you're getting exactly what you should. Oh wait, you still can't be sure, there are trojans, spyware, surfers that delete the affiliate links out of the url and re-type in the site name, and countless other things that can happen to fuck up a sale. Or better yet, fuck CCBill, go get your own merchant account, custom write your own scripts for your own paysites and change up your link structure (after all it's your own traffic) every day or every week so the spyware thieves can't steal your joins, the billing companies can't steal your joins and the sponsor programs can't steal your joins. There's your answer.

02-10-2005, 12:55 PM	#130
swedguy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,981	Kimmykim, Give me a good reason a sponsor should be able to override the cookie and assign a signup to someone else.

02-10-2005, 01:31 PM	#134
swedguy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,981	So you don't believe in minimizing possibilities to shave? So far no one has come up with a legit reason for having this "feature".

02-10-2005, 02:38 PM	#144
Wolfy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 3,574	Swedguy, you are absolutely correct in this, your goal is honorable and I hpope the people who really need to understand your point catch it - ie, ccbill. Listen everyone, what he's saying is there is a flaw in the ccbill system that would be extremely easy for them to fix if they chose to. Assuming they decide to fix this, the end result is a cleaner system that is more beneficial to webmasters - unless you run a paysite that uses the technique in question here, you should be 100% behind Swedguy. I am.