My theory why the industry is tough - GoFuckYourself.com

playa · 11-12-2001, 03:10 PM

It's been said in the past that TGP's ruined the industry,, with all that free content,,
thousands of different galleries and surfers became over welmed with free shit,, this caused more diffculties in getting sign ups,,

But i am seriously to believe that the industry went down ever since the government allowed competition in the domain selling business,,, i mean i remember thinking twice about buying a domain because it was $70.00

now that people are buying domains at less than $15 more and more
cheaters, domain squaters, flyby night companies, and more free porn sites are made daily,,

we are feeling the same effects just like when they deregulated the gas companies here in the US,,

just something i wanted to share,, would like to here some inputs

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On-top · 11-12-2001, 03:14 PM

Before cheap domains, people would just build sites on subdomains and directories. The margins were also set up a little different then, so if you were doing good, you would just pay the $70 and build your next site. Easily access to domains has changed many things, but it's only a small factor in the variances of online demand between past and present.

[This message has been edited by On-top (edited 11-12-2001).]

B.Diker · 11-12-2001, 03:18 PM

playa : you are 100% right about this subject. there are too many cheaters and f*ckers around here . i see lots of lamers have a website to cheating and earning money . . . anyway, there are too many free sites for all kind of sex so surfers wouldnt pay for these xxx stuff.

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Crysty · 11-12-2001, 03:49 PM

I disagree, from 15$ to 70$ isn't such a long way.
IMO script sites made things harder than before. There is no such thing as 200% growth in real life, but trading between script sites have brought more and more cheaters/hitbot users into the adult stage.
Tons of free content was available 4 years ago when the money were rollin' , so we shoudln't blaim tgp's for this industry downgrade.

Itchy · 11-12-2001, 03:51 PM

Quote:

I mean I remember thinking twice about buying a domain because it was $70.00

Fuck my first one cost $100

Westin · 11-12-2001, 03:54 PM

You forget, it was alot easier to make $$$ back when domains were $70 and upwards... Less traffic and more money ... not these days

[This message has been edited by Westin (edited 11-12-2001).]

Lane · 11-12-2001, 03:56 PM

my theory:
connecting and using internet got cheaper and easier. this dropped the quality of an average surfer.

Lane

playa · 11-12-2001, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Crysty:
I disagree, from 15$ to 70$ isn't such a long way.
IMO script sites made things harder than before.

there were toplist scripts since day one,,,
i think 15 to 70 is a very big way,,,

till this day $70 is alot of money to me

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playa · 11-12-2001, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lane:
my theory:
connecting and using internet got cheaper and easier. this dropped the quality of an average surfer.

Lane

actually AOL increased their prices,, i don't really see internet prices that much different you still pay between 10-25 dollars a month,,, as matter fact with broadband its still expensive

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Lane · 11-12-2001, 04:05 PM

playa,
you are talking about competetion or being too many sites out there.
but the number of our hits didnt go down. their quality did.
the average income of an internet user has dropped. 3rd world countries are also surfing the net now.

Lane · 11-12-2001, 04:07 PM

do you also think that all browsers who have set their language to english are used by people who really understand english?

Squishy · 11-12-2001, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lane:
my theory:
connecting and using internet got cheaper and easier. this dropped the quality of an average surfer.

Lane

This is no shit...when I first started going "On-line" it was through GEnie in, like, 1990...you could go into a chat room and talk to real people with real minds for a mere $3.00 per hour...now with any idiot who can go down to the Wal-Mart and pick up a computer while buying a 50 pound bag of Ol' Roy for the coon-hounds...well, now it's like going to the bar...1 in 100 people are worthwhile, and the rest should be made into free meatloaf for the homeless.

SykkBoy · 11-12-2001, 04:19 PM

Let's also not forget freehosting...you used to have to pay $100 min. for hosting. Now, it's provided free. You had to pay $200 for a ZMaster CDROM, now sponsors provide content for free.

These are a few of the things that changed as well as saturation.

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Theo · 11-12-2001, 04:35 PM

i agree with Lane,Squishy and sykkboy. I disagree with the next poster, whoever he is.

On-top · 11-12-2001, 04:51 PM

I agree. Compared with 5 years ago, domains are cheap, computers are cheap, bandwidth is cheap, content is cheap, hosting is cheap, and surfers are cheap. And everyday that we help each other compete, we bring the supply and demand closer together, and squeeze out our own margins. That is the nature of the beast...it's been pretty fun so far.

Now, I'm going to make a prediction, it's not going to get easier in the future, folks ;-) There will be good times and bad, but overall, you need to be figuring out where your niche is, and how you're going to master it.

Lane · 11-12-2001, 05:05 PM

but i think its not gonna keep going downhill like this
its gonna stabilize somewhere

playa · 11-12-2001, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SykkBoy2:
Let's also not forget freehosting...you used to have to pay $100 min. for hosting. Now, it's provided free. You had to pay $200 for a ZMaster CDROM, now sponsors provide content for free.

These are a few of the things that changed as well as saturation.

hmm, funny how shit balances out,,,
i guess without the saturation ,,
bandwidth will still be at $5.00 a gig and content would be twice as much,,,

i rather pay $5.00 a gig if sponsers were paying .18 cents a click again

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dewpoint · 11-12-2001, 05:24 PM

Sorry, I don't share the TGP doom and gloom attitued. I started in this business in May of this year. I still hold a full time job, plus I now bring in approx $5,000 - $7,000 US a month from my "adult" interests.

My secret was not to cheat or mislead. Instead, my strategy was and is to use the same marketing techniques I use in my "real" job. (I am a Marketing Director for a major coorporation). Honesty, quality and innovation always win at the end of the day.

I started with TGP's, and they still provide a sizable portion of my income. (Approx $70 US a day). And no

I won't post an example of one of my galleries.

I have just started to scratch the surface of this industry- the skies the limit. Yes, the competition is greater out there now, but to paraphrase an often used (and annoying) cliche, think outside the box.

Plus, negotiate with the website owners and approach them with your own marketing ideas. It's the image that will make you succeed where others will falter.

dewpoint · 11-12-2001, 05:26 PM

Opps - brain works slower then fingers

attitued = attitude
coorporation = corporation

On-top · 11-12-2001, 05:35 PM

I agree again, Lane, it will find levels of stabilization. But technology is still growing at some crazy rates... Processor speed doubles every 18 months for the same amount of money. HD space is doing nearly the same thing. And bandwidth, who really knows where that's going to level out at? Many of the large networks are losing billions, many others are spending billions on construction, and many yet are basically out of business. Consolidation and technology are going to swing stuff back and forth on bandwidth.

What I'm trying to say is, this is all related to the cost of technology, and the cost of the adult industry providing the services it does. It's also directly relevant to the demand being put on the industry by the surfers requirements.

The trend is to get faster, better, cleaner, meaner, hotter, and directly to the point. That's the direction the "excelling" net has gone so far and I don't see that part of it changing. It's going to keep getting more inter-related with the outside world, and everybody working online has to continue to keep his or her part of the market place. It's getting more like a real business. I mean, this shit is still pretty damn easy. Blah, blah, blah...yes, it's tougher than before, but it's not tough. I mean how many other businesses have forums like this where people explain their secrets, and how to make more money? Not very many.

Fat is going to continue to be cut from every process, and things are going to go on. My advice to everyone is to "be ahead of the curve." I don't want this post to scare anyone, but I really thing that the business is going to continue to mature like it has in the past. Be prepared.

:-)

On-top · 11-12-2001, 05:41 PM

Dewpoint, I agree with you exactly :-) Outside business practices are going to continue to come into play here, just as many of the ideas created in the adult industry have moved on to the mainstream.

I don't think gloom and doom, I think of progress and more work. I think like a business. Business has never been as good for me as it is right now. And I don't see it going anywhere but up form here for a good while. You do have to think outside the box, and you have to put in some effort. Be consistent, do some studying, it's going to be what determines the boys from the men.

On-top · 11-12-2001, 05:42 PM

double...

[This message has been edited by On-top (edited 11-12-2001).]

lightswitch · 11-12-2001, 07:47 PM

Oh geeze do i have to give you peopel teh supply & demand lesson again?
Cheaper domains certainly are not the only reason porn is going down hill. Maybe a small contributor, but certainly its one of the lesser factors. I'd spend $70 on a domain 4 years ago in a flash over $10 if it ment the biz was like it was. The fact is porn is now a tough bussness becouse of the glut of free porn. Brought on by waytoo many webmasters, who like teh quick n' easy buck. Hell you can spend an entire day signing up for sponsors that all offer free content, there are a dozen free host. there's really are not to many bussnesses you can compleatly set up in an 8 hour day. especially with little to no start up cost.
TGP's are going nowhere, I would be very suprised if something better came along in the next 5-10 years. Where I think the industry is going to go, & those that survive will be teh content providers. Their is really no reason the same webmaster who shoots the content, can't submit his own pages. why doesnt he/she? because right now there is a million wannabes who will happliy do it for him/her in hopes of maybe making one or two sales. Those wannabes flood teh market with free porn, & drive the demand down. I see these providers realizing their own lazyness is now hurting them. The internet Porn bussness has now become a massive pyramid scam of associates, so big now teh $$$ just keeps getting spread thinner & thinner. Once a week on this board i see a post about "whats the next big thing" part of bussness is to always be the first to have the best new idea. The new ideas that are gonna succede in this bussness are not of teh advertising nature , but of teh content.the days of "You build it they will come" are over, you build something people want & nobody else can get thats the future. I see alot more webmisstresses doing their own content taking this bussness over.

aleck · 11-12-2001, 09:24 PM

the actual problem is the huge number of kids that think they r webmasters, that don't mind cheating, cuz they think internet is anonymous
how about a tgp with 1000's of galleries without a single ad begging for paypal donations? is THAT business model?
ppl screw business, not business - ppl.
traffic quality drops - true, 'cuz asian internet world is getting bigger and barely any billing company will accept chinese cc's (like they have 'em

)
think about ur partners - have they done anything shitty this time, doubtfully. but ppl who r making galleries for few monthes, then leaving the biz r really a prob

IMHO surely

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playa · 11-12-2001, 09:45 PM

The future of TGP will become TGP2 i guess

or all free site owners will be doomed,,,

colin and other tgp2 supporters where you at

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Mole · 11-12-2001, 11:57 PM

I think people are giving domain names too much importance.

I hear people selling this and that domain name, but the thing is, domain names means almost nothing.

It's how you market your website which counts. Sure a catchy and short domain name might help a bit, but I bet a site with some stupid irrelevant domain name could be marketed as successful as well.

Just look at lycos, yahoo, ebay, amazon.

I don't see them being called searchengine.com, yahoosearch.com, onlineauction.com or orderbooks.com

But most porn webmasters would probably get a domain name with some relevance to what their site is about.

SykkBoy · 11-13-2001, 12:11 AM

hmm, funny how shit balances out,,,i guess without the saturation ,,bandwidth will still be at $5.00 a gig and content would be twice as much,,,i rather pay $5.00 a gig if sponsers were paying .18 cents a click again
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

playa, I agree...18 cents would be nice and even $5 a gig for hosting as there was at least some cost for entry....I still started my company for very little compared to opening a store or a restaurant, but there was still a cost of business...now, a webmaster can start for literally nothing and yet I still see rampant cheating, scheming and general "I dont know what the fuck I'm doing"-itis....

ah, yes, the glory days of 18 cents per click from XPics....getting all misty eyed thinking about it ;)

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SykkBoy · 11-13-2001, 12:21 AM

oh, and Colin, he's still in Vegas until tomorrow I believe....
He and I moderated the TGP2 Seminar at AdultDex...there was a really good turn out (even though the event was at 10:30 am) and there is growing excitement for TGP2...all it'll take, IMHO, is for another major sponsor or two to really make a strong push towards TGP2 traffic and paying more for it...actually, those who attended the seminar got a glimpse of a program I'm releasing for TGP2 soon

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Steve · 11-13-2001, 12:30 AM

Newbie resource centers, cheap domains, free content, affordable content, affordable hosting, free hosting, free scripts and auto submitters for every kind of traffic make it easy for assholes to fuck over honest webmasters.

Too many scumbags cheating right off the bat, wanting to be a big shot without working for it. If they get busted, big deal? $8 for a new domain, and a fresh new start. Maybe this time they don't get busted so fast.

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titmowse · 11-13-2001, 02:53 AM

IMHO, a lotta people got overexcited about e-commerce.

Venture capitalists showered money on any upstart that was cyberspace-related. The day will come when folks buys anything and everything off the net, but that day is not today or next year.

The press latched onto the legend of the college student who became the millionaire with the wonderful pot of gold know as the Internet. They also helped create the myth of the simple soul who makes millions of dollars selling amateur porn.

Of course there are folks making huge money with net porn but the ones that make good green today have vision, business acumen and the ability to persevere.

Smut will always sell and Internet smut sells best because it brings a product that is socially maligned into the privacy of the home.

The money is there and everyone knows it. That's the problem. Hundreds of thousands of fools jump into this business armed with only that knowlege. No plan, no training, no clue.

I do believe the internet porn market has hit a plateau of sorts. So many adult marketeers depended on the newbie factor. They counted on profiting from the sheer numbers of folks that were buying a computer for the first time. While every, single person in the world does not have a comp, I think everyone that's going to have one is pretty much on their second generation machine right now.

While the market of porn customers regenerates itself with every 18th birthday, the market of Internet newbies will not.

So many of you depend on the innocent newbie and market to their faults. Newbies are a dying breed. Who/how will you market your product when the newbies dissappear?

I by no means believe Internet porn is in danger. I simply believe the field is oversaturated with get-rich-quick dreamers/schemers.

love

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erotictrance · 11-13-2001, 07:19 AM

I totally agree with titmowse ...

I do a lot of promotion in chat rooms and, the fact of the matter is ... surfers are getting more sophisticated, savy and choosy about sites they want to buy from ...

Yet ... I see people complaining and some actually arguing that they should resort to the same old deceptive marketing tricks to increase business ...

That may work with newbies, but the newbie market is on a downslide (computer sales are down this year for the first time ever.)

And I sincerely doubt that the same old tactics will work with the vast majority of surfers anymore ...

[This message has been edited by erotictrance (edited 11-13-2001).]

Lane · 11-13-2001, 08:39 AM

regarding newbies,

i think the drop in the average income of a newbie webmaster has been bigger than of an estabilished webmaster. right now the number of people who start with this business is more than the number of people quitting. once it balances out or turns around the other way, things will become either stable or it will get better.
also without dialers, most of the newbies are dead meat in this business. once the dialers lose their profitablity, again things are gonna get better, because people will KNOW what they pay to watch porn, instead of getting pissed with their phone bill.
which one would piss you off the most? getting a 250$ phone bill instead of 50$ just because of a couple calls? or getting a 700$ cc bill instead of 600$ because you signed up with 3 paysites which provided you with shitload of porn that you can look at for 1 month?
which type of surfer is more likely to look for paid porn again?

Lane

TheFLY · 11-13-2001, 11:09 AM

This is a great thread... the newbie webmaster factor interests me...

Geniuses are born every day... When I was in high school I was given "The Computer Award" for my entire school... I was the resident "computer" guru of my school... which was something rare. The reality is now that there are a LOT more high school kid computer nerds with PLENTY of free time on their hands and no bills to pay. Give yourself all the credit you want as an "established" webmaster, but trust me -- these high school and college kids will blow you away. They are smarter, more introverted, willing to take more risks, and they are faster than you. Never underestimate them. I have mad respect for these young guns. When I was in high school I coded software and did graphics that would make me dizzy today... My work ethic back then was insane.

On the other hand -- this biz is pretty exclusive -- the traffic sources are limited... someone needs to make an impression on me with their intelligence, motivation, skills, etc. before I take the time to teach them some real strategies. I'm guessing that many of you are careful about who you take under your wing.

Anyway -- this biz is tough, but if you are a young, hardworking computer genius that is not afraid of the stigma attached to this biz -- you can succeed... in a big way. Often times you will supersede the income of your own parents before even finishing high school or college. Fuck! The industry is not "tough" for them. I want them on my team -- the Boneprone Family.

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playa · 11-13-2001, 11:32 AM

i am afraid that the internet is going on a downslide,,, ever since the main stream sites started doing the pop ups and consoles,,, ie Yahoo...

i even heard about a push for some kinda of Internet 2,,, a new cleaner version of the net,,,

all i know is if there is some kinda of vote to make domains back up to $70 then they can count me int

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xApster · 11-13-2001, 11:58 AM

Internet 2 already exsists but microsoft runs it and I think you must pay for all this useless shit

Whatever microsoft runs it.. that should say it all

RockDaddy · 11-13-2001, 12:00 PM

The money is still out there, you just have to work harder/smarter to get it.

1. Free hosts started redirecting foreign traffic and/or you are not marketing to it.
English is only 43% of all online traffic, that means you are missing out on 57% profit possibilites. http://www.glreach.com/globstats/index.php3

2. The internet went through a major growth where newbie surfers abounded, the surfer growth has slowed, and the newbies are now tgp surfing veterans http://www.netvalley.com/intvalstat.html

3. The number of websites was small compared to the number of new surfers, the number of new websites has exploded at a much higher rate than the growth of surfers. http://www.zooknic.com/Domains/counts.html

Summary = More experienced surfers, less newbies, more websites, more free porn.

RD

erotictrance · 11-14-2001, 08:09 AM

I agree with many points mentioned here ... just a few random comments ...

The money is still there but it's definitely not easy anymore ... you do have to work much harder for it ...

There is too much free porn ... not just because people are giving it away ... but many smaller webmasters won't spend the money to secure their stuff ... even though they're losing a fortune ...

I figure one amateur alone is losing $50,000 a month but she doesn't do anything to lock her stuff down ... Meanwhile, she's losing out on a huge following she's developed that's stealing her blind ...

I really think the audience is changing and looking for more specific niche sites ... look at how well trans, mature, feet etc. are converting.. Those sites are doing well ...

Not too long ago Vivid said in an interview that they believe video will not be their core business in the long term ... and that they'll be selling cyber relationships with their girls as broadband television and internet grows ...

I certainly see huge demand for that in chat rooms ...

playa · 11-14-2001, 02:34 PM

cyber relationships,, LOL

what will they come up next

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Lev · 11-14-2001, 02:43 PM

I totally agree with Playa. If a surfer goes to TheHun. So many free pics and movies, the surfer can spend hours and hours watching all that stuff and why does he need to sign up for a paysite, when he can get all that stuff for free.

Lev.

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11-12-2001, 03:10 PM	#1
playa Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: atlanta, GA Posts: 6,432	My theory why the industry is tough It's been said in the past that TGP's ruined the industry,, with all that free content,, thousands of different galleries and surfers became over welmed with free shit,, this caused more diffculties in getting sign ups,, But i am seriously to believe that the industry went down ever since the government allowed competition in the domain selling business,,, i mean i remember thinking twice about buying a domain because it was $70.00 now that people are buying domains at less than $15 more and more cheaters, domain squaters, flyby night companies, and more free porn sites are made daily,, we are feeling the same effects just like when they deregulated the gas companies here in the US,, just something i wanted to share,, would like to here some inputs ------------------ ------------ Playa icq#38147712 www.NoBSdialer.com My #1 Sponser$50 bonus just for signing up

11-12-2001, 03:14 PM	#2
On-top Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: IN Posts: 2,283	Before cheap domains, people would just build sites on subdomains and directories. The margins were also set up a little different then, so if you were doing good, you would just pay the $70 and build your next site. Easily access to domains has changed many things, but it's only a small factor in the variances of online demand between past and present. [This message has been edited by On-top (edited 11-12-2001).]

11-12-2001, 03:18 PM	#3
B.Diker Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 1,286	playa : you are 100% right about this subject. there are too many cheaters and fckers around here . i see lots of lamers have a website to cheating and earning money . . . anyway, there are too many free sites for all kind of sex so surfers wouldnt pay for these xxx stuff. ------------------ Bora Diker Icq :* 2044000 Dialoff.Com : Online since Aug 2000

11-12-2001, 03:49 PM	#4
Crysty Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 32	I disagree, from 15$ to 70$ isn't such a long way. IMO script sites made things harder than before. There is no such thing as 200% growth in real life, but trading between script sites have brought more and more cheaters/hitbot users into the adult stage. Tons of free content was available 4 years ago when the money were rollin' , so we shoudln't blaim tgp's for this industry downgrade.

11-12-2001, 03:54 PM	#6
Westin Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 393	You forget, it was alot easier to make $$$ back when domains were $70 and upwards... Less traffic and more money ... not these days [This message has been edited by Westin (edited 11-12-2001).]

11-12-2001, 03:56 PM	#7
Lane Will code for food... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Buckeye, AZ Posts: 8,496	my theory: connecting and using internet got cheaper and easier. this dropped the quality of an average surfer. Lane

11-12-2001, 04:05 PM	#10
Lane Will code for food... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Buckeye, AZ Posts: 8,496	playa, you are talking about competetion or being too many sites out there. but the number of our hits didnt go down. their quality did. the average income of an internet user has dropped. 3rd world countries are also surfing the net now.

11-12-2001, 04:07 PM	#11
Lane Will code for food... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Buckeye, AZ Posts: 8,496	do you also think that all browsers who have set their language to english are used by people who really understand english?

11-12-2001, 04:19 PM	#13
SykkBoy Jesus loves bacon Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Sin City, Motherfucker Posts: 19,969	Let's also not forget freehosting...you used to have to pay $100 min. for hosting. Now, it's provided free. You had to pay $200 for a ZMaster CDROM, now sponsors provide content for free. These are a few of the things that changed as well as saturation. ------------------ Making Bank You'll Soon Find Out How Making Bank Plans To Pay An Honest $84 Per Trial Join Everday! Evil is as evil does Dark Dollars

11-12-2001, 04:35 PM	#14
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	i agree with Lane,Squishy and sykkboy. I disagree with the next poster, whoever he is.

11-12-2001, 04:51 PM	#15
On-top Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: IN Posts: 2,283	I agree. Compared with 5 years ago, domains are cheap, computers are cheap, bandwidth is cheap, content is cheap, hosting is cheap, and surfers are cheap. And everyday that we help each other compete, we bring the supply and demand closer together, and squeeze out our own margins. That is the nature of the beast...it's been pretty fun so far. Now, I'm going to make a prediction, it's not going to get easier in the future, folks ;-) There will be good times and bad, but overall, you need to be figuring out where your niche is, and how you're going to master it.

11-12-2001, 05:05 PM	#16
Lane Will code for food... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Buckeye, AZ Posts: 8,496	but i think its not gonna keep going downhill like this its gonna stabilize somewhere

11-12-2001, 05:24 PM	#18
dewpoint Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 144	Sorry, I don't share the TGP doom and gloom attitued. I started in this business in May of this year. I still hold a full time job, plus I now bring in approx $5,000 - $7,000 US a month from my "adult" interests. My secret was not to cheat or mislead. Instead, my strategy was and is to use the same marketing techniques I use in my "real" job. (I am a Marketing Director for a major coorporation). Honesty, quality and innovation always win at the end of the day. I started with TGP's, and they still provide a sizable portion of my income. (Approx $70 US a day). And no I won't post an example of one of my galleries. I have just started to scratch the surface of this industry- the skies the limit. Yes, the competition is greater out there now, but to paraphrase an often used (and annoying) cliche, think outside the box. Plus, negotiate with the website owners and approach them with your own marketing ideas. It's the image that will make you succeed where others will falter.

11-12-2001, 05:26 PM	#19
dewpoint Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 144	Opps - brain works slower then fingers attitued = attitude coorporation = corporation

11-12-2001, 05:35 PM	#20
On-top Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: IN Posts: 2,283	I agree again, Lane, it will find levels of stabilization. But technology is still growing at some crazy rates... Processor speed doubles every 18 months for the same amount of money. HD space is doing nearly the same thing. And bandwidth, who really knows where that's going to level out at? Many of the large networks are losing billions, many others are spending billions on construction, and many yet are basically out of business. Consolidation and technology are going to swing stuff back and forth on bandwidth. What I'm trying to say is, this is all related to the cost of technology, and the cost of the adult industry providing the services it does. It's also directly relevant to the demand being put on the industry by the surfers requirements. The trend is to get faster, better, cleaner, meaner, hotter, and directly to the point. That's the direction the "excelling" net has gone so far and I don't see that part of it changing. It's going to keep getting more inter-related with the outside world, and everybody working online has to continue to keep his or her part of the market place. It's getting more like a real business. I mean, this shit is still pretty damn easy. Blah, blah, blah...yes, it's tougher than before, but it's not tough. I mean how many other businesses have forums like this where people explain their secrets, and how to make more money? Not very many. Fat is going to continue to be cut from every process, and things are going to go on. My advice to everyone is to "be ahead of the curve." I don't want this post to scare anyone, but I really thing that the business is going to continue to mature like it has in the past. Be prepared. :-)

11-12-2001, 05:41 PM	#21
On-top Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: IN Posts: 2,283	Dewpoint, I agree with you exactly :-) Outside business practices are going to continue to come into play here, just as many of the ideas created in the adult industry have moved on to the mainstream. I don't think gloom and doom, I think of progress and more work. I think like a business. Business has never been as good for me as it is right now. And I don't see it going anywhere but up form here for a good while. You do have to think outside the box, and you have to put in some effort. Be consistent, do some studying, it's going to be what determines the boys from the men.

11-12-2001, 05:42 PM	#22
On-top Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: IN Posts: 2,283	double... [This message has been edited by On-top (edited 11-12-2001).]

11-12-2001, 07:47 PM	#23
lightswitch Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Butte, MT, USA Posts: 870	Oh geeze do i have to give you peopel teh supply & demand lesson again? Cheaper domains certainly are not the only reason porn is going down hill. Maybe a small contributor, but certainly its one of the lesser factors. I'd spend $70 on a domain 4 years ago in a flash over $10 if it ment the biz was like it was. The fact is porn is now a tough bussness becouse of the glut of free porn. Brought on by waytoo many webmasters, who like teh quick n' easy buck. Hell you can spend an entire day signing up for sponsors that all offer free content, there are a dozen free host. there's really are not to many bussnesses you can compleatly set up in an 8 hour day. especially with little to no start up cost. TGP's are going nowhere, I would be very suprised if something better came along in the next 5-10 years. Where I think the industry is going to go, & those that survive will be teh content providers. Their is really no reason the same webmaster who shoots the content, can't submit his own pages. why doesnt he/she? because right now there is a million wannabes who will happliy do it for him/her in hopes of maybe making one or two sales. Those wannabes flood teh market with free porn, & drive the demand down. I see these providers realizing their own lazyness is now hurting them. The internet Porn bussness has now become a massive pyramid scam of associates, so big now teh $$$ just keeps getting spread thinner & thinner. Once a week on this board i see a post about "whats the next big thing" part of bussness is to always be the first to have the best new idea. The new ideas that are gonna succede in this bussness are not of teh advertising nature , but of teh content.the days of "You build it they will come" are over, you build something people want & nobody else can get thats the future. I see alot more webmisstresses doing their own content taking this bussness over.

11-12-2001, 09:24 PM	#24
aleck Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 940	the actual problem is the huge number of kids that think they r webmasters, that don't mind cheating, cuz they think internet is anonymous how about a tgp with 1000's of galleries without a single ad begging for paypal donations? is THAT business model? ppl screw business, not business - ppl. traffic quality drops - true, 'cuz asian internet world is getting bigger and barely any billing company will accept chinese cc's (like they have 'em ) think about ur partners - have they done anything shitty this time, doubtfully. but ppl who r making galleries for few monthes, then leaving the biz r really a prob IMHO surely ------------------ PlatinumBucks - amazing conversions, 65% recurring or $30+ per signup BigPenis - $30 per signup from lifetime membership

11-12-2001, 09:45 PM	#25
playa Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: atlanta, GA Posts: 6,432	The future of TGP will become TGP2 i guess or all free site owners will be doomed,,, colin and other tgp2 supporters where you at ------------------ ------------ Playa icq#38147712 www.NoBSdialer.com My #1 Sponser$50 bonus just for signing up

11-12-2001, 11:57 PM	#26
Mole Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Thailand Posts: 26	I think people are giving domain names too much importance. I hear people selling this and that domain name, but the thing is, domain names means almost nothing. It's how you market your website which counts. Sure a catchy and short domain name might help a bit, but I bet a site with some stupid irrelevant domain name could be marketed as successful as well. Just look at lycos, yahoo, ebay, amazon. I don't see them being called searchengine.com, yahoosearch.com, onlineauction.com or orderbooks.com But most porn webmasters would probably get a domain name with some relevance to what their site is about.

11-13-2001, 12:11 AM	#27
SykkBoy Jesus loves bacon Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Sin City, Motherfucker Posts: 19,969	hmm, funny how shit balances out,,,i guess without the saturation ,,bandwidth will still be at $5.00 a gig and content would be twice as much,,,i rather pay $5.00 a gig if sponsers were paying .18 cents a click again +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ playa, I agree...18 cents would be nice and even $5 a gig for hosting as there was at least some cost for entry....I still started my company for very little compared to opening a store or a restaurant, but there was still a cost of business...now, a webmaster can start for literally nothing and yet I still see rampant cheating, scheming and general "I dont know what the fuck I'm doing"-itis.... ah, yes, the glory days of 18 cents per click from XPics....getting all misty eyed thinking about it ;) ------------------ Making Bank You'll Soon Find Out How Making Bank Plans To Pay An Honest $84 Per Trial Join Everday! Evil is as evil does Dark Dollars

11-13-2001, 12:21 AM	#28
SykkBoy Jesus loves bacon Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Sin City, Motherfucker Posts: 19,969	oh, and Colin, he's still in Vegas until tomorrow I believe.... He and I moderated the TGP2 Seminar at AdultDex...there was a really good turn out (even though the event was at 10:30 am) and there is growing excitement for TGP2...all it'll take, IMHO, is for another major sponsor or two to really make a strong push towards TGP2 traffic and paying more for it...actually, those who attended the seminar got a glimpse of a program I'm releasing for TGP2 soon ------------------ Making Bank You'll Soon Find Out How Making Bank Plans To Pay An Honest $84 Per Trial Join Everday! Evil is as evil does Dark Dollars

11-13-2001, 12:30 AM	#29
Steve Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: USA Posts: 6,894	Newbie resource centers, cheap domains, free content, affordable content, affordable hosting, free hosting, free scripts and auto submitters for every kind of traffic make it easy for assholes to fuck over honest webmasters. Too many scumbags cheating right off the bat, wanting to be a big shot without working for it. If they get busted, big deal? $8 for a new domain, and a fresh new start. Maybe this time they don't get busted so fast. ------------------ 404 Traffic For Sale $50/20k

11-13-2001, 02:53 AM	#30
titmowse Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: TEXAS Posts: 5,320	IMHO, a lotta people got overexcited about e-commerce. Venture capitalists showered money on any upstart that was cyberspace-related. The day will come when folks buys anything and everything off the net, but that day is not today or next year. The press latched onto the legend of the college student who became the millionaire with the wonderful pot of gold know as the Internet. They also helped create the myth of the simple soul who makes millions of dollars selling amateur porn. Of course there are folks making huge money with net porn but the ones that make good green today have vision, business acumen and the ability to persevere. Smut will always sell and Internet smut sells best because it brings a product that is socially maligned into the privacy of the home. The money is there and everyone knows it. That's the problem. Hundreds of thousands of fools jump into this business armed with only that knowlege. No plan, no training, no clue. I do believe the internet porn market has hit a plateau of sorts. So many adult marketeers depended on the newbie factor. They counted on profiting from the sheer numbers of folks that were buying a computer for the first time. While every, single person in the world does not have a comp, I think everyone that's going to have one is pretty much on their second generation machine right now. While the market of porn customers regenerates itself with every 18th birthday, the market of Internet newbies will not. So many of you depend on the innocent newbie and market to their faults. Newbies are a dying breed. Who/how will you market your product when the newbies dissappear? I by no means believe Internet porn is in danger. I simply believe the field is oversaturated with get-rich-quick dreamers/schemers. love ------------------ tit, writer for: COZYFROG Submit your Free site, TGP or TGP2 gallery to the MowseBytes Newsletter BONEPRONE 4 LIFE

11-13-2001, 07:19 AM	#31
erotictrance Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 328	I totally agree with titmowse ... I do a lot of promotion in chat rooms and, the fact of the matter is ... surfers are getting more sophisticated, savy and choosy about sites they want to buy from ... Yet ... I see people complaining and some actually arguing that they should resort to the same old deceptive marketing tricks to increase business ... That may work with newbies, but the newbie market is on a downslide (computer sales are down this year for the first time ever.) And I sincerely doubt that the same old tactics will work with the vast majority of surfers anymore ... [This message has been edited by erotictrance (edited 11-13-2001).]

11-13-2001, 08:39 AM	#32
Lane Will code for food... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Buckeye, AZ Posts: 8,496	regarding newbies, i think the drop in the average income of a newbie webmaster has been bigger than of an estabilished webmaster. right now the number of people who start with this business is more than the number of people quitting. once it balances out or turns around the other way, things will become either stable or it will get better. also without dialers, most of the newbies are dead meat in this business. once the dialers lose their profitablity, again things are gonna get better, because people will KNOW what they pay to watch porn, instead of getting pissed with their phone bill. which one would piss you off the most? getting a 250$ phone bill instead of 50$ just because of a couple calls? or getting a 700$ cc bill instead of 600$ because you signed up with 3 paysites which provided you with shitload of porn that you can look at for 1 month? which type of surfer is more likely to look for paid porn again? Lane

11-13-2001, 11:09 AM	#33
TheFLY So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: http://www.thefly.net/ --- Quit your job and live off steady traffic. Posts: 11,856	This is a great thread... the newbie webmaster factor interests me... Geniuses are born every day... When I was in high school I was given "The Computer Award" for my entire school... I was the resident "computer" guru of my school... which was something rare. The reality is now that there are a LOT more high school kid computer nerds with PLENTY of free time on their hands and no bills to pay. Give yourself all the credit you want as an "established" webmaster, but trust me -- these high school and college kids will blow you away. They are smarter, more introverted, willing to take more risks, and they are faster than you. Never underestimate them. I have mad respect for these young guns. When I was in high school I coded software and did graphics that would make me dizzy today... My work ethic back then was insane. On the other hand -- this biz is pretty exclusive -- the traffic sources are limited... someone needs to make an impression on me with their intelligence, motivation, skills, etc. before I take the time to teach them some real strategies. I'm guessing that many of you are careful about who you take under your wing. Anyway -- this biz is tough, but if you are a young, hardworking computer genius that is not afraid of the stigma attached to this biz -- you can succeed... in a big way. Often times you will supersede the income of your own parents before even finishing high school or college. Fuck! The industry is not "tough" for them. I want them on my team -- the Boneprone Family. ------------------ <A HREF="http://www.thefly.net/topfly.html" TARGET=_blank> </A>Oh Baby! TheFLY.net

11-13-2001, 11:32 AM	#34
playa Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: atlanta, GA Posts: 6,432	i am afraid that the internet is going on a downslide,,, ever since the main stream sites started doing the pop ups and consoles,,, ie Yahoo... i even heard about a push for some kinda of Internet 2,,, a new cleaner version of the net,,, all i know is if there is some kinda of vote to make domains back up to $70 then they can count me int ------------------ ------------ Playa icq#38147712 www.NoBSdialer.com My #1 Sponser$50 bonus just for signing up

11-13-2001, 11:58 AM	#35
xApster Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,188	Internet 2 already exsists but microsoft runs it and I think you must pay for all this useless shit Whatever microsoft runs it.. that should say it all