X37375787

I'm having a hard time chosing what programming language to learn by myself. I know some C++, but I wanna get good in something else, which is going to be useful for my future.

I've been looking at Perl, and I like the concept, but it still seems to have some disadvantages compared to C, especially for CGI apps. Well, maybe I have no clue...

Tell me what to learn damnit or I'm gonna bite my fucking keyboard.

Matt

PHP

X37375787

Update, I just got this book from half.com for $5... I heard it's a great source for C...

Amputate Your Head

All I ever needed was a good ol' DOS batch file.

Lane

start with anything and play with it a lot. then start looking at other languages. then its gonna be much easier for you to decide what language you would enjoy using the most.

Theo

is this Lane's joke??
yesterday i told him that I hate this book, i have it now in college and it sucksssss and now i see equinox bought it! god, he'll suiiciddee!!!!!!

Lane

hahaha
Soul, i told you its a nice book and i told him to buy it too.
stop crying and read it carefully, it will start making sense after you go over the same things several times.

FADE19

I would start out with English...then maybe move on to Ebonics...and with the war and all...you may want to start learning "CAMEL"

Crappy
Afgan
Mummbling
Eeeediot
Language

X37375787

FADE, you've always been an idiot and you'll never change either.

Sucks to be born as an asshole.

FADE19

Stop your fucking crying...Pussy!

JackFoley

Go with PHP for sure. If you can understand C (I can't) then it'll be a piece of cake.

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Kimmykim

It would depend on what you are going to do with the language as to what you decided to learn.

Some apps don't work well in some languages, some won't work at all.

Backov

Kernighan + Richie is THE C bible. If you're a C programmer, you need to have it, as a reference. If you want to learn C, there's lots better.. Try the C Primer..

Cheers,
Backov

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deluxe

I'd go with PHP

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onlyreal

a tip

donot try to learn C after learning php

first c then php

Osholio

Depends if you want to learn a 'real' language as opposed to a web scripting language. For a 'real' language I would start with something like Java, as it will force you to learn proper programming skills which will stand you in good stead to learn other languages.

For a scripting language, PHP is pretty much the best out there, certainly for the ptrice.

I would not recommend C as a first language, C is like a home surgery kit, incredibly powerful in skilled hands, but will kill you if you don't know what you're doing. C++ is the same only more so; Bjarne Strousop, the creator of C++ had this to say about the two languages - "In C it's pretty easy to shoot yourself in the foot, C++ makes it harder but when you do you tend to take your whole leg off".

Personally, I've been coding professionally for years, and throw me a language and I'll write in it (apart from Lisp and Prolog, bleugh). Most of my stuff is written in Java nowadays, though perl is my non-web scripting language of choice, and PHP for websites.

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Nbritte

I agree with KimmyKim if you are wanting to write programs that are somewhat cross compatable with windows look at Delphi and C++ they use diffrent compilers but most of the source code is compatable. If you are wanting to write programs for the net and you are planning to write programs that do a lot of work but not real often look at perl. Most perl scripts work on both unix and windows if they are written correctly. If you are writing basic programs that are going to be used often try PHP it is much eaiser on a server then perl.
Personally I prefer Perl and Delphi but I intent to learn PHP mostly because I belive that it will be the web language of the future


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X37375787

Thanks for the feedback so far! Appreciate any help.

My interest rather points towards web-based applications, just because I believe that it has a bright future and the demand for people is gonna be high pretty much for ever Well, actually... any good programmer is gonna find a job anytime anywhere.

Clockwork Smurf

What shortcomings does Perl have? I think you are confused. If you really can find something that Perl can't do on your server (???) you can always code those routines in C.

Don't bother with anything else. PHP is cool but anything you can do in PHP, you can do in Perl. But if you really know C already, I can guarantee that you will be able to learn PHP in only one hour. Perl on the other hand is a very powerful language.

Check out the "Perl Cookbook" and you will see some very complex things that you can do with Perl: code your own server, make robots, code objects, graphics, blah blah blah...

Mr Docter

Great.. Now we are gonna have a bunch of smurfs runnin around all over the place.. hehe

wiZd0m

The best tool for the Job = The best language for it.

Procedural languages are getting old. If your thinking future, Object Oriented Languages are the way to go. A good universal API is the Java 2.


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Rivux

Anyone who creates a dynamic website in anything but Cold Fusion is either
a) smoking crack or
b) cant afford a real host

If you want to be a little script kiddie who makes neat little 'send to a friend' pages then fine use perl or even php

But if you want to create a real website, then use Cold Fusion, its powerful, effective and quick to code. Nothing is better.

As well, a Cold Fusion Developer who knows what they are doing will make more money then any other type of web developer.

wiZd0m

Rivux, you are missing the point.

He wants to know what paradigm to form his mind under. It's the concepts that are important, not the syntax of the languages themselves or tool you use to implement it.


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Rivux

Edit: I agree with you wizdom, but he has to learn a language someday. And to say that java or c or php are paradigms is wrong. They are just languages.

----------

There are two things that he needs to learn.

Programming theory
Any programming/scripting language

For the book, the ritchie c one was mentioned earlier, as for language, cold fusion would be prefered.

[This message has been edited by Rivux (edited 11-07-2001).]

rollin

asp!

onlyreal

if you have chance
try to enter algorithms lesson in computer science section

Vicodev

omg..thats a joke, right?

Theo

is asp considered programming language? i think it's a step after logo

Nbritte

little script kiddie? LMAO I like that sence I recently wrote one of those send a friend a page scripts. but then again I also wrote a bbs script with multi language support, a cam chat script, and a chat server (still working on a java applet interface for it). Perl is a good language but as I said in an earlier post it is not good for application that will be used 10s of thousands of times a day unless you want to bog down a server. I dont know anything about cold fusion so I really can not comment on it.

Brian




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awechen

if u start with C and / or C++ the rest will be easy to use ....

if u start with perl or php or some asp fuck .. u have a hard time to jump to a other lang.

for my self ... i programm webserver scripts in pike (roxen webserver) .. and php if is a smal script ... bigger script's (accouning)i code as webserver module.



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"Shock your systemadministration! Read manual-pages!"

awechen

mhh learn or step down ?
i like php .. but some php functions still fucked up ...if u use php with mysql and medium traffic sides will be ok ... but with high traffic is all the time better to use a webserver module.



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"Shock your systemadministration! Read manual-pages!"

TheFLY

Good programming should be elegant and tight -- without wasted instructions. There's no point in using Cold Fusion or OOP or whatever if you don't need it. A well programmed Perl script can process hundreds of thousands of visitors/day -- plenty adequate for any TGP site. If your Perl code is overloading your server -- most likely you can rewrite the code to be *much* more efficient.



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awechen

WOW !
what a posting !

nice to know that my system suxx

i use php and pike ... and some webserevr modules ...
now i will try to use ONLY Cold Fusion
....
WOW now i make real $$$ then:
cold fusion's support on solaris with more then 2 CPU'S suxx.
so i get back a lot of $$$ for selling CPU's

ahhh and also i sell few servers and the loadbalancer ... i cant use it anymore ...

... blllaaaaahhhhhhh
ok now fun mode [off]
Cold Fusion is nice ... but nothing for big systems.
i test it with a sun E-450 (full load)
10K ora query's 8K select 1K update 1 K insert:
CF 26,5 sec.
PHP 24,4 sec.
C 9,3 sec.
PIKE 18,2 sec.

... so long



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"Shock your systemadministration! Read manual-pages!"

awechen

Active Server Problems ?



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"Shock your systemadministration! Read manual-pages!"

TheFLY

What is Java 2? Is it cool? Maybe I should go to the Sun site and check it out?

I personally dislike OOP -- I feel like it takes control away from me... in any case I think it's good for a new programmer to understand why OOP is necessary in the first place... then they may be less likely to use it ;)

I'm pretty sure that OOP does not produce more efficient programs -- as you have a lot of useless code that is in place with the intent of making the programming process simpler... but in reality only very large systems benefit from OOP's "ease of use" -- how many people are really building objects from scratch? I'd guess that most programmers today use other people's objects -- you spend all your time leaning to jump through someone elses hoops to get something done -- and you end up with a lot of code that is completely unnecessary -- I'd rather solve the problems myself. Reinventing the wheel is not only more fun but your code is more efficient and is focused on the task at hand. When you need to make changes to your program -- you won't be spending so much time reading somebody else's sloppy, cryptic, or incomplete documentation.


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Rivux

This is bullshit. How did you write your queries? Did you use views, stored procedures or cfqueries? Most of your queries shouldnt be done by scripts, they should be done by the database server, they can do it much more efficiently. So stop throwing around garbage numbers. Some people may actually believe you.

As well, You dont use Cold Fusion for everything, you would be an idiot if you did. For things that CF isnt great at, large string parsing for example, you would use perl or c, but thru CF.

I am sure that someone could write some nice sites in perl or php. But I doubt it could be done as quickly or efficiently as something that was written in CF.

One last thing, I dont care if its in cf, asp or perl. If you dont know how to program properly, then whatever you write will turn out like shit.

HQ

this is a good thread.

give some examples of languages based on the projects at hand. for example, what would u use to write...

a normal tracker?
a traffic trading tracker?
a front-end (upload) to a free-host?

etc...

u'd be surprised at what u can do with perl for how simple it is.

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awechen

u work with oracle ?

ok show me one high traffic side that use CF ?
btw the performance test was for project big site that sells book's i think u know which site i mean ..

ok i think GFY is not the right place to fight on server perfomance and database query's ..
hit me on ICQ if u like ... also i can show u the test scrip's ...

but later .. now i go to my birthday party


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"Shock your systemadministration! Read manual-pages!"

awechen

a normal tracker?
- logging into a file. and resolve with shell (awk / perl) scripts via crontab the put the data into a database.

a traffic trading tracker?
PHP/Perl/ or CF *g*
a front-end (upload) to a free-host?
PHP



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"Shock your systemadministration! Read manual-pages!"

Rivux

The answer to this one isnt simply about which technology is better. When decisions are made about which language to use for a site, perfomance is an issue, but so is cost, availability of developers and time.

Cold Fusion has really only been around since about 96, and most of the large websites out there started around that time or not long after. So CF was never a real choice for them.

But a company who is starting today from scratch on a website would be best off choosing CF.

If people are interested on who is using it, you can find that info at Ben Forta's site.
http://forta.com/cf/using/

Jer

PHP

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aleck

C -> C++ -> Perl -> PHP -> any other shit

only such way

btw mod_perl is pretty fast

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Theo

jesus_module also

Lane

start with php to learn the OOP language basics. you can also play with perl.
move on to C++ to apply what you have a learned so far on a *real* programming language. Java is fine too.
next thing, learn about the computer system. operating systems, data and memory management, networking, IPC etc... then start using C to use the real power


and also, real programmers use pointers

Lane

Lane

...if you think you can go further, use assembly language

its your own funeral

Theo

char *lane

Rivux

k, things are just going downhill now

[Labret]

Hello World

rollin

i push about
15 gigs of b/w a day through an asp script with no problems...

code haterz

Dopy

My partner is an ex 8086 assembly programmer and its now about as useful as a chocolate kettle unless you want to work with boring embedded stuff.

PHP and Perl are simple to learn and the most useful for your online and offline scripting work. It is also of great benefit to learn a little unix while working yourself through perl and PHP. If you are thinking about a future in serious online data handling then C is a must. And don't forget Java, a few lines of code browser side can be very useful at times.