FTC serves Signup4cash at Internext - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

xlogger · 01-11-2005, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nismo

Wow. I just turned on CNN Headline News and the first story I see is this one. This shit is gonna be huge and most likely the first of many.

its fucking on CNN!??

TKoProductions · 01-11-2005, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyflip

Well...that, or the fact that the owners were on this board a few days ago calling this nothing but lies and saying that all was well in Signup4CashLand.

I think I like my reason better.....but yours is a pretty good one too!

(actually, I think you're probably right; the fact that they got caught in a lie fuels the inferno)

Nismo · 01-11-2005, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKoProductions

dayum, this thread's exploding, i better get my sig placement in quick!

the only reason that this topic is attracting as much attention as it has, is because of the large percentage of folks in this industry that spam themself.

truth = sad

That's because it's an easy way to clear $1mil a year, easy, especially with adult sites. Who's going to turn down that money? A pornographer?

Nismo · 01-11-2005, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xlogger

its fucking on CNN!??

It was on CNN Headline News & MSNBC

Manowar · 01-11-2005, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xlogger

its fucking on CNN!??

You thought it wouldnt be ?

ytcracker · 01-11-2005, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyflip

Maybe not anymore, but they played a big role in the entire operation. I don't think a change in management is going to cover them here.

The business was directly associated with what was going on. They will be caught up in all this whether you think they will or not.

well in all actuality its just because the commonality in corporate officers

youll see what i mean soon enough reflected was sold not just repositioned or reorganized

xlogger · 01-11-2005, 11:40 AM

So what do you think will happen to these guys? Do you think they will server jail time or just pay a huge fee?

candyflip · 01-11-2005, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ytcracker

well in all actuality its just because the commonality in corporate officers

youll see what i mean soon enough reflected was sold not just repositioned or reorganized

Right...BUT, they were part of the operation and "problem" that the FTC has filed the complaint against.

I was a Signup4Cash affiliate and they set me up with hosting on Reflected servers. That's the link and that's all there needs to be.

You've dealt with the Gov't before right? You know they don't like to leave anyone out of the loop

TKoProductions · 01-11-2005, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nismo

That's because it's an easy way to clear $1mil a year, easy, especially with adult sites. Who's going to turn down that money? A pornographer?

Signup4Cash, or I should say its "old management" was hitting AOL HARDCORE for the past 3 years. And it wasn't no affiliates. I know this for a fact. You're bound to draw attention when you mess with the big boys. When I saw the coverage and penetration that they had, I knew it was only a matter of time.

Loadie · 01-11-2005, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKoProductions

dayum, this thread's exploding, i better get my sig placement in quick!

the only reason that this topic is attracting as much attention as it has, is because of the large percentage of folks in this industry that spam themself.

truth = sad

i sense some truth to your statement.

Nismo · 01-11-2005, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKoProductions

Signup4Cash, or I should say its "old management" was hitting AOL HARDCORE for the past 3 years. And it wasn't no affiliates. I know this for a fact. You're bound to draw attention when you mess with the big boys. When I saw the coverage and penetration that they had, I knew it was only a matter of time.

Yup. I know more than you think. In all honestly, I can't believe they lasted this long.

erehwon · 01-11-2005, 11:50 AM

Get used to this, its the begining of the end...

Drake · 01-11-2005, 11:50 AM

Nothing is wrong with "Spam" as long as the Can-Spam Law is followed. They allegedly weren't following it.

andrej_NDC · 01-11-2005, 11:51 AM

When Vegas Playa started the first thread, it was full of S4C asskissers, who told how great and honest the crew is. Where are those people now?

tranza · 01-11-2005, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradM

TKoProductions · 01-11-2005, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loadie

i sense some truth to your statement.

It's amazing to see whos ears perk up when you're at a convention and you drop innuendoes that only people of the underground would have reason to know about.

It's quite interesting.

ytcracker · 01-11-2005, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

When Vegas Playa started the first thread, it was full of S4C asskissers, who told how great and honest the crew is. Where are those people now?

theyre still my boys

antis are fuckin gay

i dont even spam anymore but they are seriously a bunch of jobless losers who think they are batman

they shut down my site all the time for no reason its seriously retarded

Rui · 01-11-2005, 11:52 AM

Wish things like this happend to many more sponsors that come to my mind....

lol shit happens eh..

Rui · 01-11-2005, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erehwon

Get used to this, its the begining of the end...

I'm all for the end of more spammers, I don't see why don't you understand how great this sort of actions is for our industry...

SmokeyTheBear · 01-11-2005, 11:58 AM

I notice it says * emails must contain valid physical postal address ??

I never noticed that part of the can spam act ..

Anyways this is only breaking news for those not involved. Those involved knew it was coming

LadyMischief · 01-11-2005, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradM

?Spammers beware. We are on the side of parents and kids to protect their ability to filter out sexually-explicit e-mails.?

Hear that guys? Start using proper subjects.

Exactly.. How fucking hard is it so put "sexually explicit" in the subject line? How many sales are they really going to loose if they actually subject themselves to filters.. not any morethan they are losing now. And this simple "oversight" is going to end up with people either jailed, or subjected to heavy fines. It could have all been avoided had they actually adhered to the law. Retards.

xlogger · 01-11-2005, 12:00 PM

fucking antis!!

FightThisPatent · 01-11-2005, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

I notice it says * emails must contain valid physical postal address ??

I never noticed that part of the can spam act ..

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/canspam.htm

last bullet point under "what the law requires"

Fight the Details, Details, Details!

vicki · 01-11-2005, 12:10 PM

IMHO that was a booming loud statement the feds made by showing up at the convention.
It would be totally different if they serves via knocking on individual doors, by crashing the most popular show in the industry they have made their plans clear.
And notice how its been spread to all the media types.

the climate has been changing for years not but NOW you can SMELL it!!!

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 01-11-2005, 12:13 PM

less spam = More traffic to pass around.
This is a good thing and should be done more often

People come to us regardless, the more prosecutions the better for everyone.

MickeyG · 01-11-2005, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

Exactly.. How fucking hard is it so put "sexually explicit" in the subject line? How many sales are they really going to loose if they actually subject themselves to filters.. not any morethan they are losing now. And this simple "oversight" is going to end up with people either jailed, or subjected to heavy fines. It could have all been avoided had they actually adhered to the law. Retards.

by adding the SEXUALLY-EXPLICIT tagline into your subject you will lose an extremely large percentage of your mailings, even if it was opt-in.

I guess they were more focused on the rewards rather then the risk

FightThisPatent · 01-11-2005, 12:14 PM

AVN article with some additional news items (interviews):
http://www.avnonline.com/index.php?P...tent_ID=212513

Fight the Reading!

vicki · 01-11-2005, 12:15 PM

Alien

although I'm on the side of stopping spam .. this is more than it appears imho

bdld · 01-11-2005, 12:17 PM

the rules were pretty clear, they willingly chose not to follow them. they dug their own grave.

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 01-11-2005, 12:17 PM

We know how these things play out though.

They make millions get a slap on the wrist end of show.
Done and then they come back with a new outfit. Maybe I am gettin bored of this business, its always the same.

Rich · 01-11-2005, 12:18 PM

LadyMischief · 01-11-2005, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickeyG

by adding the SEXUALLY-EXPLICIT tagline into your subject you will lose an extremely large percentage of your mailings, even if it was opt-in.

I guess they were more focused on the rewards rather then the risk

Yeah, but is the reward worth the risk? All thats being accomplished is a further drawing of negative attention to our industry, and outright violating laws isn't going to make those extra signups that were "lost" come back. It's just going to make them a moot point, because you can't spend lots of money behind bars, or if the government seizes your assets.

DeanCapture · 01-11-2005, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

AVN article with some additional news items (interviews):
http://www.avnonline.com/index.php?P...tent_ID=212513

Fight the Reading!

I love this line.....

?If you?re using a business model that recruits others to market your Website, you are strictly liable under the CAN SPAM Act for those third parties,? Harrington said. ?It?s not just the people who push the button to send the spam that can be held liable.?

hydro · 01-11-2005, 12:21 PM

looks like they got busted because the outgoing emails on the pay per email program didnt have the right subject. Not because they were using darkmailer + proxies

Cyndalie · 01-11-2005, 12:24 PM

Looks like they named the billing agent as well. Man, one affiliate could take out the program, hosting, billing, and potentially, content providers and any link partners the site may have. Wow.

vicki · 01-11-2005, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

LOL you said it toots

anyone interested in getting consulting on canadian incorporations? lol

FightThisPatent · 01-11-2005, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

?If you?re using a business model that recruits others to market your Website, you are strictly liable under the CAN SPAM Act for those third parties,? Harrington said. ?It?s not just the people who push the button to send the spam that can be held liable.?

If your TOS does not allow for spamming by affiliates, one quick way to check is look at your weblogs.

look for affiliate ID links that have no referers.

Links from email or newsgroups will have no referers (like type-ins), and should give the sponsor an indication of which of their affiliates are spamming since the affiliate ID will be in the link.

Fight the Spotlight!

FightThisPatent · 01-11-2005, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vicki

LOL you said it toots

anyone interested in getting consulting on canadian incorporations? lol

Being incorporated in canada is not the only step to take... it's like moving offshore, you have to COMPLETELY move offshore.

No US-based assets, no credit card processing in the US, no banking relations to the US, no hosting, etc.

Any kind of US connection can be targetted while your corporation is outside of the US.

And depending how big of a case, there could be foreign government co-operation.

Fight the No where to run!

DeanCapture · 01-11-2005, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

Links from email or newsgroups will have no referers (like type-ins), and should give the sponsor an indication of which of their affiliates are spamming since the affiliate ID will be in the link.

Most sponsors don't give a fuck if their affilites are spamming anyways. As long as the money continues to roll in .... the spamming is overlooked. I applaud the FTC for taking some action against spammers, their sponsors, their hosting and billing companies. Hopefully all these clowns will get the message and tighten up their programs.

There's plenty of business to be had without resorting to spamming

xlogger · 01-11-2005, 12:38 PM

damn this is a kick in the nut rite here man.

LA Mike · 01-11-2005, 12:38 PM

Its simple.. Dont break the law dont get in trouble. I would never mail or let my affiliates mail without following the canspam act. And all those guys doing Spy Ware will be next. Why screw around. Its not worth it

kingfoo1 · 01-11-2005, 12:42 PM

can-spam laws are pretty simple. follow them and there are no issues

vicki · 01-11-2005, 12:47 PM

Whats strange to me is that alot of the webmasters don't see this for what it really IS.

This isn't simply about spamming people, read between the lines.
The industries peaches are being squeezed in all directions.

From spamming, to content, to processing and more!

Persius · 01-11-2005, 12:50 PM

very interesting indeed

vicki · 01-11-2005, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

Being incorporated in canada is not the only step to take... it's like moving offshore, you have to COMPLETELY move offshore.

No US-based assets, no credit card processing in the US, no banking relations to the US, no hosting, etc.

Any kind of US connection can be targetted while your corporation is outside of the US.

And depending how big of a case, there could be foreign government co-operation.

Fight the No where to run!

Well I have offshore merchant accounts available and can assist with info on becoming incorporated in Canada .. the hosting is simple .. the rest would be up to them lol

FightThisPatent · 01-11-2005, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

Most sponsors don't give a fuck if their affilites are spamming anyways. As long as the money continues to roll in .... the spamming is overlooked.

Most sponsors have it in their TOS about no spamming, no newsgroups, etc... but as you have observed, if signups are coming in and chargebacks are fairly low, then who's bothering to look at weblogs to see if the traffic is from email or not.

Another reason that sponsors should be monitoring their weblogs is because some of affiliates are actually cp website operators who use pay programs to fund their operations.

They send out cp spam with instructions for people to click on an affiliate link (many times in email so there will be no refererer, or from a shell affiliate website). Once the person joins, they are told to email the username/pass to the cp operator who will log into the paysite to verify. Once they have confirmed, then they email the cp seeker the user/pass to get into the cp website.

If sponsors looked at their logons and saw that a new user/pass logged on only 1 time, it should give them something to suspect. I have heard pay programs say that it's not uncommon for someone to log in once and then not again.. but in reality, why would someone pay $19.95/month and logon only ONCE within hours/day of first signing up and not doing so again?

What i have described above is a different problem, but similar circumstances... sponsors will be increasingly more liable for actions of affiliates and having a hands-off approach could turn into a hands on the wall stance.

Monitoring your affiliates and your weblogs proactively will be increasingly more important. Additional dollars spent to do this monitoring may end up coming out of affiliate program commissions, as paysites may join other programs that are reducing payouts in order to deal with various business expenses.

Fight the Soapbox!

FightThisPatent · 01-11-2005, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vicki

the rest would be up to them lol

ya, the part about having no US-assets (land, bank accounts, etc) may be the hardest for most to give-up. if you go offshore, go all the way, unless you know some good attorneys that can structure layers upon layers of shell corporations such that you could be living nextdoor to a federal prosecutor that he couldn't touch you.

This kind of "invisibility" takes alot of money, so it's not for the faint at heart.

Fight the Cloak and Daggers!

jimmyf · 01-11-2005, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeNoga

This really blows for those that were served, their legal bills are going to be astronomical.

yep wonder when they are going 2 go after the pill spammers

jimmyf · 01-11-2005, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyflip

Because Donnie claimed that he was nothing more than a disgruntled employee, so Lensmen shut him down.

Hopefully Lens will see this and straighten things out. Like reopening the threads as TDF said above.

I hope so also

TheEbonyFelony · 01-11-2005, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAMike

Its simple.. Dont break the law dont get in trouble. I would never mail or let my affiliates mail without following the canspam act. And all those guys doing Spy Ware will be next. Why screw around. Its not worth it

i agree 100 percent

01-11-2005, 11:40 AM	#57
xlogger Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: NY Posts: 9,507	So what do you think will happen to these guys? Do you think they will server jail time or just pay a huge fee? __________________ ---------- XLOGGER [REFLECTED] [OH]

01-11-2005, 11:50 AM	#62
erehwon Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: A secure undisclosed location... Posts: 3,759	Get used to this, its the begining of the end... __________________ Money NEVER $leep$...

01-11-2005, 11:58 AM	#70
SmokeyTheBear ►SouthOfHeaven Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: PlanetEarth MyBoardRank: GerbilMaster My-Penis-Size: extralarge MyWeapon: Computer Posts: 28,609	I notice it says * emails must contain valid physical postal address ?? I never noticed that part of the can spam act .. Anyways this is only breaking news for those not involved. Those involved knew it was coming __________________ hatisblack at yahoo.com

01-11-2005, 12:00 PM	#72
xlogger Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: NY Posts: 9,507	fucking antis!! __________________ ---------- XLOGGER [REFLECTED] [OH]

01-11-2005, 12:10 PM	#74
vicki Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Deep in the heart o' Texas Posts: 1,478	IMHO that was a booming loud statement the feds made by showing up at the convention. It would be totally different if they serves via knocking on individual doors, by crashing the most popular show in the industry they have made their plans clear. And notice how its been spread to all the media types. the climate has been changing for years not but NOW you can SMELL it!!! __________________ If at first you do succeed - try to hide your astonishment. HR merchant accounts from 3.45% solid biz since 98 victoriakozub AT gmail.com skype: victoria.kozub \| ICQ: 74296746 Last edited by vicki; 01-11-2005 at 12:11 PM..

01-11-2005, 11:50 AM	#63
Drake Hello world! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 12,508	Nothing is wrong with "Spam" as long as the Can-Spam Law is followed. They allegedly weren't following it.

01-11-2005, 11:51 AM	#64
andrej_NDC Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 7,760	When Vegas Playa started the first thread, it was full of S4C asskissers, who told how great and honest the crew is. Where are those people now?

01-11-2005, 11:52 AM	#68
Rui web Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: On icq: 85-483-060 Posts: 9,533	Wish things like this happend to many more sponsors that come to my mind.... lol shit happens eh..

01-11-2005, 12:13 PM	#75
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	less spam = More traffic to pass around. This is a good thing and should be done more often People come to us regardless, the more prosecutions the better for everyone. __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

01-11-2005, 12:14 PM	#77
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	AVN article with some additional news items (interviews): http://www.avnonline.com/index.php?P...tent_ID=212513 Fight the Reading! __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957

01-11-2005, 12:15 PM	#78
vicki Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Deep in the heart o' Texas Posts: 1,478	Alien although I'm on the side of stopping spam .. this is more than it appears imho __________________ If at first you do succeed - try to hide your astonishment. HR merchant accounts from 3.45% solid biz since 98 victoriakozub AT gmail.com skype: victoria.kozub \| ICQ: 74296746

01-11-2005, 12:17 PM	#79
bdld $100,000 Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 11,452	the rules were pretty clear, they willingly chose not to follow them. they dug their own grave.

01-11-2005, 12:18 PM	#81
Rich So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,486

01-11-2005, 12:21 PM	#84
hydro Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Dirty 3rd Posts: 4,216	looks like they got busted because the outgoing emails on the pay per email program didnt have the right subject. Not because they were using darkmailer + proxies

01-11-2005, 12:24 PM	#85
Cyndalie Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Cherry Hill, NJ Posts: 3,615	Looks like they named the billing agent as well. Man, one affiliate could take out the program, hosting, billing, and potentially, content providers and any link partners the site may have. Wow.

01-11-2005, 12:38 PM	#90
xlogger Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: NY Posts: 9,507	damn this is a kick in the nut rite here man. __________________ ---------- XLOGGER [REFLECTED] [OH]

01-11-2005, 12:38 PM	#91
LA Mike Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 3,056	Its simple.. Dont break the law dont get in trouble. I would never mail or let my affiliates mail without following the canspam act. And all those guys doing Spy Ware will be next. Why screw around. Its not worth it

01-11-2005, 12:42 PM	#92
kingfoo1 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 19	can-spam laws are pretty simple. follow them and there are no issues

01-11-2005, 12:47 PM	#93
vicki Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Deep in the heart o' Texas Posts: 1,478	Whats strange to me is that alot of the webmasters don't see this for what it really IS. This isn't simply about spamming people, read between the lines. The industries peaches are being squeezed in all directions. From spamming, to content, to processing and more! __________________ If at first you do succeed - try to hide your astonishment. HR merchant accounts from 3.45% solid biz since 98 victoriakozub AT gmail.com skype: victoria.kozub \| ICQ: 74296746

01-11-2005, 12:50 PM	#94
Persius Tap into MOBILE! Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Hollywood Posts: 11,779	very interesting indeed