VIP, who the fuck are you to think you can say ANYTHING to Rose?
If her and hun have a problem, so be it.
You, however, should keep your mouth shut. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

Hun, glad to see you around here. I see once again a decent honest topic is turning into another pissing match. It amazes me how Everytime a thread starts, no matter what the subject is, some people want to turn it into a debate.

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Smile and Be Happy

Lightning Free Hosting

12clicks you are right, but still this thread is not about me, you, Hun or Rose is it?


And who "the fuck" I am can mean your not doing your homework before you start shooting...
Maybe you just shot a good friend http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/wink.gif

What is your opinion on pop-ups?

I hate pop-ups. as soon as they start i am too busy shutting them down to bother reading them as i don't (want to) know how many are going to load.
No pop-ups ever on my pages, sometimes my mates cruise my pages to see if there is anything new there (like pics of my ex's!) and i know that they hate the damn things too.
If some one has a 56k modem (most of the UK) it just slows the page load.

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There is no such language as English{United States} dammit!!

Wow, when the Hun posts, people listen.

Maybe he'll win the longest thread prize this week. Do you suppose he owns a DVD player yet? http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

ps I started posting galleries to The Hun 2 weeks ago and hopefully I'll see one listed within a few weeks. I want to see my stat counters sing.

VIP, I only have 2 friends from the netherlands. Hun and wolfshade. Which one are you? http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

haha, the hun is a big boy, he doesn't need your help with Rose. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

lightning, this is the same old story now 3 years old. too much content vs too much advertising.
We should all learn where our own happy medium is. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

VIP, also, you don't get to be a friend UNTIL I shoot you.
ask brad, lens, hun, etc. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

"you don't get to be a friend UNTIL I shoot you. ask brad, lens, hun, etc" -is this some type of gay prison lingo? http://www.plauder-smilies.de/yellows/sad.gif

VIP

Ok so we have gone slightly off topic ? welcome to discussion boards.

I see that you have quoted my earlier post and gone beyond its original meaning which is fine as long as you fully understand the point I was trying to put across, maybe you don?t. And as for the way I do business, the proof is in the eating my friend.

I work for a pay-site operator, nothing big just a few sites with original teen content. The bulk of my job is to market the site front end and find new member by whatever methods I see fit.

When a guy enters one of my sites he gets two things ?

1. A clean trouble free environment to look at some very hot sample content.
2. The feeling that there?s a real person running the show.


If this guy looks at our content and leaves, I am 80% sure that if he is a potential purchaser of porn he will come back later for a second look, my samples and ultra clean site ensure this. Anyone who knows this business will know what I mean by the ?must have factor? It?s that one picture in a thousand that makes the guy whip out his dick and shoot his fat, he just has to have more. If I can?t give him that picture today, I will sure as hell try and give it to him later.
I have been selling porn (my body included) on and off the net for almost 9 years and know exactly what men want.

To me the Hun is just another name but I will say this, his site gives me the feeling that a human being is running the show and not just some get rich quick click junkie, this usually means a bookmark for me. As for him stealing in the earlier days, its call robbing the rich to pay the poor when start-up cash is tight, most do it , few admit to it.

I do not rely on the mainstream TGP/LIST traffic for business so its unfair for me to be over critical of their methods, all I can say from experience is that surfers don?t like being jerked around, they are often not very computer literate and become very frustrated when too many things happen at once. Remember, you people know all the alt-F4 and quick click tricks, just spare a though for the 50 YO guys who don?t, and remember he probably has disposable income at hand.

There are some very immature people in this business, and to them its all a big jerk off game that brings a few dollars each month. Hopefully one day as internet technology matures the system will clean itself up and leave the smart money to do its job effectively.

Finally, a message to all Americans. Please don?t forget that not all countries are used to the cold heavy weight marketing techniques employed in the US.

Hun,
I agree that popups are hell, and don't bother with them, but some of my sponsors use them and that does not sit well with me, so when you have your list of good sponsors who don't do it i will definately check it out. I have always respected you, and I believe everyone does even if they disagree with you, and it's not just because you get such massive traffic.

Thanks 12clicks http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif
OK Topic=CONSOLES OR NOT
Personally I dont like them.
Do I use them?
Yes and No.
On my regular sites,AVS sites no I dont and
never did.
On my Top list and CJ site Yes I do.
Why ? Because they work on these sites.
Easy and simple.

Susan

Finally, a message to all Americans. Please don?t forget that not all countries are used to the cold heavy weight marketing techniques employed in the US.

Yes I agree,but lets not forget 90%
people who spend money on the net are from
North America.But I hope the rest of the world will catch up. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

This is a topic I feel strongly about.

Pop-ups SUCK! They are bad business in most ways. On the other hand, They make up for a lot of income some lose to other parts of this biz, free sites, TGPs, etc. There has to be an even ground and by reading this thread and about a 100 others, nobody has the answer, it's just a matter of opinion. I've already posted numerous times on my feelings on freeloaders. Fuck Them. They should get what they can get and deal with us trying to pay for them getting what their getting. Paysites and Sponsors, totally different story. Stop trying to make our lives harder...pretty please http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif?

Susan, good points.

Warphead, very good points.

Mindwaste, if you offer them an option to kill pop-ups, who will ever see them? you think anyone will ever opt to have pop-ups?

VIP, nice, effective analogy.

HQ, alot of good points. I don't feel like that. I'm just like you and a lot do...network with those that you feel are honest webmasters and fuck stats, uniques etc.... and conversions will come back 10 fold in the long run (notice I said long run LOL).

Lightning, I think that was the point, wasn't it? A debate does not equate to a pissing match. It is for the good of our biz and to all of us to hear differing points of views and decide where we stand or to help us figure out where we stand. If someone posts a thread that everyone agrees to, that in my, humble opinion, is often a waste of time, or JUST for fun. Boards were set up to get info(or maybe to have fun or get to know each other). There is a number of different ways to do this. One of which is a good ol' fashioned debate http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif.

My bottom line is I hate pop-ups and I'm an adult webmaster, think about how our consumers feel. At the same time there is a need for them in certain circumstances, I would list the specific circumstances, but shit, you all know so I won't waste time. I personally do not use them, but, if I am losing money consistently on a site, I will not think twice about selling my exit traffic, if need be. I hope I never have to, and keeping my shit as clean as I do, if my sponsors take the, what I deem as greedy or the easy road, that pisses me off. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/mad.gif

April

Oh BTW, alot of us are bitchin at each other and we know damn well that is the newbies or the ones in it for the short run or teenagers with no jobs and too much time on their hands, for the most part, that do us the most damage as far as how our consumers respond to us. Pop-Ups, blind links, Site descriptions that don't follow through, etc.

I sense a new thread LOL.

Good post April.
And believe me almost every sponsor uses
exit console,I see nothing wrong with this unless it's endless pop up hell.
ARS is great sponsor I use them and love them.Yes they use exit consoles and those
consoles work.About 30 % of my sales
come from their consoles.
So baning anyone sponsor who use them
is just ridiculous.Sponsors need to make money to stay in the game and those pop us
help them.

[This message has been edited by Rose (edited 03-31-2001).]

You guys just love the Hun. I'm getting pictures of Joseph Stalin and Chairman Mao in my head. You guys fall in line like sheep when Comrade Hun speaks. But ask yourself this: If the Hun was giving it to you up the ass would he have the common courtesy to give you a reach-around?



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http://www.sweetjimmy.com/



[This message has been edited by sweetjimmy (edited 03-31-2001).]

Thanks Rose.

Sweetjimmy, did I say fuck shit about the Hun? Ooooh Boy, nobody has tried my patience more than you ove the last couple of months, than my ex did for years. What's your real name? Are you sure you're not originally from Oregon, because god-damn if you don't sound like the same damn arrogant, stubborn bastard that knocked me up LOL.

lol ... "reach-around"

April, your so right, I love to offer my help and opinions in any constructive debate, I just hate when they get turned into a pissing match..
All your comments are excellent. And Rose, How the heck are you babe.. Havent talked to you in a long time, hit me on icq http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

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Smile and Be Happy

Lightning Free Hosting

You just proved my point by defending your god so quickly. I bet you wouldn't even have the balls to tell the hun you don't like the color yellow.

I hope the hun is happy with his prize for longest thread this week. He's probably hard up for money and needs one.

Lightning, you spineless automaton, I wonder why you would spring to the huns defence. Surely your doing it out of the goodness of your own heart and not because he sends you millions of hits.

Hey I'm sorry I just call em like I see them. And right now I'm seeing alot of brown nosing and ass kissing.

hey the hun if u dont want your dvd player.. send it over to me http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif i wouldnt mind getting a dvd player..

"I'm not touching this one with a forty foot pole"

-Chef South Park

Oh yeah, I forgot to put in my two cents about the subject of this stupid thread.

I say fuck the surfer. It's all about the bottom line and the bottom line is to get the fucken money. Get the money by any means necessary. I don't care if your robbing senile pensioners of their life savings it's all about the Benjamins.

If you people think dialers are ethical what the fuck could you possibly have against pop-ups? I'm sure Amateur Pages couldn't pay you that sweet 4 cents a click if they didn't have those pop-ups.

And what is this about "I hate it when these threads turn into a pissing match?" Did you read your address box? It says GOFUCKYOURSELF.COM for fucks sakes. This place has been getting pretty lame I think I'm gonna go watch Springer.

Yeah man , "Fuck the surfer"
Are you planning on staying in this business for a long time?
Some of us do ... and thinking "fuck the surfer" isnt the way to go . Maybe it was , 3 years ago . Not anymore

GFY

Sweetjimmy, First of all I didnt enter any opinion on this thread at all. I just commented on the fact that I like to help people as much as I can, in a professional manner, such as a good debate. And I cannot stand when ignorant people turn a good thread or discussion into a pissing match.
My thoughts on The Hun's rules or any other tgp for that matter, are not based on my personnal opinions, but rather those opinions of the many webmasters that host with us. They are the ones that like Hun's and other tgp's traffic. My personnal feelings and opinions in this matter are really irrevelent to the business decision that we at Lightning Free have to make.

I hope this helped shed some light on your worthless and un called for attack on me.

OK now "Go Fuck Yourself"

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Smile and Be Happy

Lightning Free Hosting

user sweetjimmy,

if you lack the necessary vocabulary to express your thoughts in a civilised and rational manner you should at least refrain yourself from posting vulgarity.
It's not by making personal attacks on other businessman that you will get your point across.
All you manage to do with your confrontational behaviour is to discredit yourself and any valid point you might want to bring to the discussion.

regards,
Thunder

All I have to say is I definately learn something each time I come to this board..Alot of good points were made.There are alot of very experienced people here.And a hello to patrick and everyone here as well.

Yeah pissing matches suck...

SNOW
vipdialer.com

Still talking about the endless pop-up consoles when you click a banner?

I know I'm not clicking on any ARS banners anymore when using a cable modem...

I wonder why the FTC is looking at you guys in the US, anything to do with the way the surfer is being fucked?

And we want to be taken serious?

I agree with Jimmy that dialers do the same thing as those pop-ups.

I also know that pop-ups means more direct sales for some of you.

It has all got to do with how much of these agressive ways of marketing we are going to use in the future before the FTC says to all of you, Go Fuck Yourself...
Pop-ups can be effective when you set short term goals and dialers are a good alternative billing method if you tell the end user the rate he is about to pay...

BTW we dutch sold New York (first known as New Amsterdam) to the english, including Harlem. I wonder why http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/wink.gif

Ever heard of Heineken, Shell, Philips, Ahold or Unilever. Marketing is more than making money, as much as possible, in one day...

I think most answers speak for themselves. I see people here bringing a point across and I see people here bashing others for not agreeing with them, or bashing others for agreeing with someone they don't agree with. So far I didn't hear an awful lot of positive arguments for consoles. The only one I did see was "I get 30% from my revenue from consoles". Good point. But I wonder how many sales you would get that click, but don't sign up right away. Especially newbies want to see options. They don't know what's around. So they click a banner. Might think "that's nice" but click back. That person might very well sign up later. But if they're trapped in a loop of consoles they might not click any banners at all.

Funny to see how people are comparing me with dictators. People that lower themselves to remarks like that clearly don't have any better defences. I'm not telling people what to do, simple. I don't run the Internet. The Internet will survive even if I wouldn't be here. So how am I in the position to dictate? I do know I'm making money. And I do know have been doing that for quite some time and I don't think I'll stop very soon. So I must be doing something right huh? The good thing about an honest income is that is lasts. I don't have to worry about traffic every day 'cause I know that as long as I keep treating my visitors with the upmost respect that they'll be back some day.

I started this thread in order to get a discussion going. That worked. I know I send a lot of traffic to paysites. If not through my own sites then indirectly throught the 80 galleries that are listed every day. I don't like telling people what sponsors they can't use. It would be great if those sponsors would have figured out non-annoying ways of getting traffic themselves. There are a few sponsors eligable to be blacklisted. Those are pretty big sponsors (ARS, Join4free, sweetloads, Babylon-X, CyberErotica, to name a few). All these programs have been making webmasters a lot of money. And they proved to be reliable when it comes to paying out their webmasters. And I have a lot of respect for that. The simplest solution would be a separate sponsor program that doesn't pop up a list of consoles. And that can be done very easily by sending traffic to a different URL. I could adapt my bot so it would tell people that the sponsor is good, but that they need to change their URL to one that doesn't pop up the loop of consoles. I think it would be a big shame to entirly blacklist these programs.

So, I'm open for this dialog. And I really hope the sponsors will go for this. I know I can send the traffic to justify the extra work. Some sponsors have done things like these already (truecelebs for instance), which is great. That sponsor can make money the way they want. And I don't have problems sending them traffic as long as I'm sure that my visitors are not trapped in a loop of consoles. That's the solution I like to see in the near future.

Wow this is a great thread, finally got the time to read it all.

Ok I got many thoughts bare with me.

1. I'm pretty sure the browser "Opera" has already implemented popup disable features and target override features.
There is demand for this to be written into Mozilla/Netscape, so that will proably come around eventually. IE on the other hand, will probably never remove the popups. First of all it's very difficult to disable Javascript in IE and IE is weird they do a lot of messed up error corrections, that just make people bad coders.

2. As a surfer I personally don't like pop up windows.

3. As a webmaster I barely use them, and never abuse them.

4. A lot of you had good points. The one about pop ups not respecting the surfer. That's was good.
Some people may be agreeing but not realise it.
I agree with sweetjimmy where he said fuck the surfer. I think what he ment was fuck a surfer that doesn't pay for porn. And respect the surfer, I agree with that too. I think that if someone is just in search of free porn then you shouldn't be concerned with their surfing experience, but when you pay for porn you shouldn't see pop ups in the members section (it does happen).

If you go to a restaurant, try the food (eat 25% percent of the meal) then leave and not pay. The owner is going to take a fuck you attitude, even if he's a great business man and a nice person.
But if you go in an pay for a meal he is going to treat you like a king. Or at least he should.

5. I think Susan said something about the ?must have factor? girl. That's a great way to sell porn. But it sadens me that we have to resort to those tactics. Because as a guy, I know it shouldn't be that hard to sell porn. When it comes to naked woman we are an easy sale. Making us get a crush on a girl before paying for porn, is a great way to sell porn, but it marks a sad state of this industry.

6. This board is great, because all of use having our own opinion is great, but this industry is like the oil industry. What one company does effects everybody else.
If I open up a gas station and start giving regular gas away for free, but charge for premium. A lot of people are going to go out of business.
If I open up a pay porn site and start giving out free memberships. It's going to be hard for many webmasters to convert their pay sites.
Free access to full porn sites is already happening. I mean most trial sign ups are a great deal, people should be able to risk $3 on a porn site to see if they like it.
But free, a lot of people just sign up then cancel.
I'm not saying that not giving away free pics is the solution (although I've held this thought for a few weeks). But discretion is needed.
I could make an argument that free hosting harms the porn biz (what's up Lightning, don't take offense). Because a lot of newbies post a lot of free pics and sometimes without sponsors. And they sometimes don't own the content and they post to TGPs. I'm not wiz when it comes to TGP's but if they are great for making sales then why do people want to use free hosting to post their pics?


7. Everything The Hun mentioned that is not available for free, but available in pay sites. I've seen all that for free, high quality too. Unfortunately I can't find any exact urls at this moment http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif


8. Most surfers still use dial up connections to the internet, so the biggest format they demand as far as porn goes is images. Most people don't want to wait 2 hours to blow their load. So I've spent nights thinking about how so much free pictures on the net effects sales overall.
I don't think it's harder to make money in the porn industry now from 5 years ago because there are more webmasters, I mean there are more surfers too. I think free porn is too easy to get.

When I first got the internet, a long time ago, when I wasn't old enough to view or pay for porn, I used to search and search hard. And I think I would have paid for porn if I had a credit card at that time. Now that I'm a webmaster, I can find more free porn than I care to spend time looking at. I'm no longer an ideal customer.

9. What about these full page pop ups. I hate those, they are crazy, I would never sign up to a site that consumed my whole screen. (Netscape users dont know what Im talking about).

10. This bizness is about sales, not clicks not 3 cents per blind. About sales.
I used to think it was about clicks, till I got ripped by a bunch of click companies (same ones most people got fucked by).
When thinking should we use pop ups, it's all about what will get more sales. Today and Tomorrow.

11. Sponsors with pop ups, isn't very good.
Cybererotica drives me nutts with theirs.
I think if they popped up 1 console, with links to all their niches that would be cool.


12. The Hun, I like free porn so don't get offended by the stuff i've said.
Lightning, free hosting is what got me started in the biz, so aint against that either.

What sweetjimmy said about Stalin and Mao is actually a very important thing, not that I think the Hun is either. But a lot of people have a tendency to bow to people in power instead of question them. And since the people in power have the most opportunity to do good and to do harm, it's always best to questions and evaluate.


13. If I think of anything else, it will be in the next post http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

Peace,
Pete Dogg


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Daily Naked Free Auto Updating Top Referrer Lists

[This message has been edited by Pete Dogg (edited 04-01-2001).]

Pete, don't worry, I'm not easily offended ;-)... About the high quality images/movies/chat you found. I'm pretty sure that if I would link that it would go out of business simply because the bandwidth it takes is not affordable outside of a paysite.

Your examples are nice, but I don't agree fully. They're close though. I was in a mall in Florida (sawgrass it was I think) and at the food-court they gave me enough samples to be considered a small meal. I bought at the place with the best sample. And porn can be better compared to cars, not gas. And 175,000 dollar cars still sell although there are cars availble for 10,000 and less. I am still convinced that what a paysite can offer can not be equalled by a free site. And that's good. 'cause after all this business in indeed about sales. There's nothing wrong with making money on the web. It's just the way some people are forcing their stuff on people that starts to bother me.

Yes this business is about sales not clicks.
But some people think otherwise.All they check is counters.It's easy to get 100 000
worthless hits.But not easy to get 10 000
good hits.I agree there is too much free stuff on the net.
Only people who pay for porn are newbie surfers.More experienced will not pay for it.

Saying there's too much free porn on the web is like saying there's too much free oxygen for people to breathe. Free porn will be there. But the high quality will still be limited to paysites simply 'cause bandwidth is unaffordable for high quality with no access fee.

But that was not the point of this thread. Paysites need to make it clear what they offer. Niche, new pics, no commerce, movies, series, chat, live cams, but they don't need consoles to do that. I'm still waiting for a sponsor that does use a loop of exit consoles to contribute to this discussion. I offered a solution a couple of posts back...

I dont think that anyone from ARS will come here. If they wanna pop up consoles they will do it, it's about their bottom line
not about your opinion

Just like the time they removed the entrapment and dropped me an e-mail so I could take 'em of the blacklist, right? Stop being an ass Rose. I have a lot of respect for ARS. And I'm not trying to tell them what to do, I'm trying to get to a solution that works for everybody. That is constructive. But it seems that might be a term unknown to you. Please stay out of this discussion if you can only see black and white. What would you think works better for an advertiser. Being blacklisted or being suggested as a good sponsor with an alternative program? You do the math.

LOL
So why did they put consoles back in?
Maybe we should meet for a lunch Hun.
I'll be in Amsterdam in 2 months.

I said they removed the entrapment. That is not back at ARS. I don't see any reason to meet. You seem to have no respect at all for people that don't share your opinion. Fine with me, but I doubt I want to waste a day on that. Sorry

LOL
I'll survive..
I have lots of respect for others.
You dont know me.
It's democracy,everyone is entitled to their
opinions.But every time you post it's only I ban ARS or I ban Porncity.Personally I dont care cause I dont post to your TGP.
And this is only my opinion,if you allow me
"Sites like yours do more damage to this industry than some pop ups,They educate
surfers that there is everything for free
on the net"
And yes you can get free video, free feeds
and almost anything pay site offers on the net if you look.If you want to find it you will.
This is my opinion.

I think that I made this industry a lot of money instead of costing it too much... Sites like mine are inevidable. And judging by the amount of advertising inquiries that come in every day people must be making money Rose. So your opinion that my site only does bad for the industry (of course you're entitled to your own opinion) is not based on the numbers I have here. Looking at those numbers people make money. Most advertisers renew their banners on my page. And why would 75,000 people click on a banner every day if they found everything they want for free. A paysite that offers the same quality that can be found on the web for free is indeed hurt by the free porn. But why make people pay for what they can find for free.

Indeed, there are free chats and livecams out there, but I'm pretty sure that if they submit to my site and get listed that they'll be out of business pretty quick.

Is pay tv hurt by the public channels? Are exclusive restaurants hurt by McDonnalds? Are sweet hotels hurt by youth hostels? Is volkswagen hurt by Ferrari? I don't think so. Quality has it's price. If paysites would agree with what you say, why would they have invented affiliate programs? Those programs are made to traffic into money. Affiliate programs would be absolutely worthless without sites like mine. 'cause without galleries and linksites paysites are limited to search-engine advertising and adds in printed media. And you know as well as I do that those don't do affiliates.

If we'd close all free sites today what will happen then? Search-engines would make a lot of money. So people would start building search-engines and link-sites or some other directory of what's out there. Simply 'cause traffic means being able to send traffic over to a sponsor, which means making money. So soon advertisers will start giving free previews away. And soon they will start giving free content to create the most goodwill and the highest amount of impressions on their banners in order to make sales. But isn't that exactly what is happening right now? The way things are going right now is inevidable. Saying that free content is costing paysites revenue is naive.

If there's no previews on the web anymore people would start putting their own pictures on the web (like what happened 8 years ago when I started). I think amateurpages would be one of first to see an oppertunity there. And they would be right. This market is a little more complicated then "what's avaible for free can't be sold anymore". It's about telling people what's out there. Giving people options. And trying to please the customer so eventually he'll pay and stay. 'cause the real money is in recurring sales. I know this market very well Rose, I looked at it from more than just my side.

Hun
You are entitled to your opinion.Free stuff
is here to stay I know.As I stated in some other post sites like yours could be great tool,but unfortunately is not.Free stuff should be just tease and not 30 extreme
hardcore penetration.Me personally I think
that stuff shouldnt be for free at all.
Oh well. I am off to spend some time with my son.They changed to summer time last nite
and it always seems to screw your day.
You guys in Europe had it done last week,right?
Good luck to you Hun and no hard feelings http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif
It's nothing personal.