How much startup money is required? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

MetaMan · 12-25-2004, 05:15 PM

where do these people come from?

please see topic:

"how much can a 50k tgp make?"
thank you.

Mutt · 12-25-2004, 05:36 PM

most big affiliate programs are still running piece of shit paysites with maybe $5000 spent per site - most of it on a fancy front end. They'll come to GFY with their reps showing it off like it's some work of art and months in development and morons and ass kissers will ooh and aaah at the glorious piece of crap. And they'll talk about the hundreds of plugins inside in lieu of exclusive content but plugins are extremely cheap today, you can add a plugin to 50 Bozo Bucks sites for cheap. this biz is still about fucking over the customer, delivering a $2 dollar product for 35 bucks a month. and yes you could make the argument that NIKE and Coca Cola do the same. Except most NIKE wearers and Coke drinkers know the product and like it, even though they know the product itself is worth a small fraction of what they paid for it. The numbers of people running quality sites and programs is on the increase though.

Alex if you're paying $300 for a DVD license you are either 1)lying or 2)getting ripped off.

Shoplifter · 12-25-2004, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stev0

I think it's pretty safe to say that most pps programs dont shave... they'd get caught so quickly, and the word would spread like wildfire on the boards.

Recently I bought and set up a string of TGP's to send traffic to my own paysites. I didn't have enough galleries to fill out all the niches on the TGP's so I started to do some affiliate work so I would have galleries for all the niches on the TGP's.

Low and behold there is an astonishing disparity in the value of the traffic sent to my own sites compared to the same traffic sent to PPS programs. I could list my own galleries in the wrong categories and still beat the PPS programs by almost 10:1.

Most newbies here don't have a benchmark for their traffic so they really don't know if they are being cheated or not. Unless someone is caught red handed shaving no one raises a stink about shitty ratios and the ongoing shaving theft just becomes part of "the way the business works".

On another note I was recently able to examine the stats of a +- $1 million gross PPS program that was up for sale. What was the profit after payouts on this program if it was run cleanly? About $1500 per week, jack squat. I'm sure there are others here who saw this and know what I'm talking about.

GFY is a razzle dazzle pimphat wearing fucktard kind of place full of gullible newbies with limited math skills. And as long as it is PPS and shaving will thrive.

Tat2Jr · 12-25-2004, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofsam

but sites that have free content like platinumbucks... who supply videos and pictures.... wouldn't that be okay ?

I hope you're not talking about using sponsor's content in your paysite member's area. That's a huge mistake. You've got to have the rights to your content. Sponsor's give that free content (that was anything but free for them) to promote their sites, not help you build your own paysite.

Dalai lama · 12-25-2004, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetaMan

where do these people come from?

please see topic:

"how much can a 50k tgp make?"
thank you.

You're so right.

How about a 100k tgp btw

bigdog · 12-25-2004, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoplifter

Recently I bought and set up a string of TGP's to send traffic to my own paysites. I didn't have enough galleries to fill out all the niches on the TGP's so I started to do some affiliate work so I would have galleries for all the niches on the TGP's.

Low and behold there is an astonishing disparity in the value of the traffic sent to my own sites compared to the same traffic sent to PPS programs. I could list my own galleries in the wrong categories and still beat the PPS programs by almost 10:1.

Most newbies here don't have a benchmark for their traffic so they really don't know if they are being cheated or not. Unless someone is caught red handed shaving no one raises a stink about shitty ratios and the ongoing shaving theft just becomes part of "the way the business works".

On another note I was recently able to examine the stats of a +- $1 million gross PPS program that was up for sale. What was the profit after payouts on this program if it was run cleanly? About $1500 per week, jack squat. I'm sure there are others here who saw this and know what I'm talking about.

GFY is a razzle dazzle pimphat wearing fucktard kind of place full of gullible newbies with limited math skills. And as long as it is PPS and shaving will thrive.

did this pps program have trials?

Alex From San Diego · 12-25-2004, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadFidel

Alex:
"Programming: $1200.00
Jr Webmaster labor: $1000.00

Advertising for 1 month: $5000.00"

What is Jr Webmaster labor? Is it the kid you pay to get the coffee and donuts?

It's about knowledge that is not easily obtainable. No book nor company will tell you how it's done, for that's like giving away lotto numbers.
An open unknown project for $75k, and you have the balls to say they will make it back in 90 days?
Your numbers are so way off that I wish today was April 1st, so a least I could get a giggle.

How many sites have you started DeadFidel? My guess is zero.
Not only does he get coffee and donuts every morning for me, he also cleans every digital photo that comes in. He submits numerous galleries, he manages the content for the affiliates and an assortment of other tasks. If you read my posts, you would have noticed that I said we send 350 joins/day to our program and other sponsors....so yes, we can break even after 90 days. The difference between you and my company is I'm not running a few galleries out of moomy's house. We happen to run a fine tune business. My job is to market and crunch numbers. So giggle all you want. Someday when you take this business serious and not just dabble in it for a few six packs a week, you will understand.

UniversalPassLorence · 12-25-2004, 07:08 PM

It all depends on the quality of content, if it is exclusive or not, & how much content.

Alex From San Diego · 12-25-2004, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt

most big affiliate programs are still running piece of shit paysites with maybe $5000 spent per site - most of it on a fancy front end. They'll come to GFY with their reps showing it off like it's some work of art and months in development and morons and ass kissers will ooh and aaah at the glorious piece of crap. And they'll talk about the hundreds of plugins inside in lieu of exclusive content but plugins are extremely cheap today, you can add a plugin to 50 Bozo Bucks sites for cheap. this biz is still about fucking over the customer, delivering a $2 dollar product for 35 bucks a month. and yes you could make the argument that NIKE and Coca Cola do the same. Except most NIKE wearers and Coke drinkers know the product and like it, even though they know the product itself is worth a small fraction of what they paid for it. The numbers of people running quality sites and programs is on the increase though.

Alex if you're paying $300 for a DVD license you are either 1)lying or 2)getting ripped off.

Adult legal charges 280.00 for licensed DVD.....ok so I'm off 20 bucks...sorry.

bigdog · 12-25-2004, 07:17 PM

Alex if you were to open up a pps program how much could you afford to pay out per join?

PerfectionGirls · 12-25-2004, 07:43 PM

Quote:

most big affiliate programs are still running piece of shit paysites with maybe $5000 spent per site - most of it on a fancy front end. They'll come to GFY with their reps showing it off like it's some work of art and months in development and morons and ass kissers will ooh and aaah at the glorious piece of crap. And they'll talk about the hundreds of plugins inside in lieu of exclusive content but plugins are extremely cheap today, you can add a plugin to 50 Bozo Bucks sites for cheap. this biz is still about fucking over the customer, delivering a $2 dollar product for 35 bucks a month. and yes you could make the argument that NIKE and Coca Cola do the same. Except most NIKE wearers and Coke drinkers know the product and like it, even though they know the product itself is worth a small fraction of what they paid for it. The numbers of people running quality sites and programs is on the increase though.

I am always amased how people can form conclusions when they have never actually run a program or understand the TRUE day to day cost of its operation.

Your Coke example was kinda funny considering a 24 oz glass of fountain coke is not cost quite .01 for them to deliver to the customer. Yet we as an industry are kicked in the nuts if we try to turn a profit. I wont even get into paying out 60% of the profits to affiliates.

Youre a bright guy Mutt. Open a program and see if you can make that same statement after one year in the biz.

DeadFidel · 12-26-2004, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex From San Diego

Someday when you take this business serious and not just dabble in it for a few six packs a week, you will understand.

It better be expensive fucking beer.

bigdog · 12-26-2004, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadFidel

It better be expensive fucking beer.

nice stats

quiet · 12-26-2004, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoplifter

On another note I was recently able to examine the stats of a +- $1 million gross PPS program that was up for sale. What was the profit after payouts on this program if it was run cleanly? About $1500 per week, jack squat. I'm sure there are others here who saw this and know what I'm talking about.

those were very interesting to look at... :)

sonofsam · 12-26-2004, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadFidel

It better be expensive fucking beer.

owned....

Drake · 12-26-2004, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoplifter

On another note I was recently able to examine the stats of a +- $1 million gross PPS program that was up for sale. What was the profit after payouts on this program if it was run cleanly? About $1500 per week, jack squat. I'm sure there are others here who saw this and know what I'm talking about.

Interesting... has this program been sold yet? If so, how much did it go for and/or what is the asking price considering it does over $1mil in sales but only actually generates $1500 in profit? Slightly off topic but what would be a reasonable asking price for such a site?

Back to the topic, although I can't give any numbers because I've never owned a program, from what I'm reading, one needs to consider not only the cost involved in opening a paysite but also the period that it takes to recoup that investment. Alex stated around 90 days for him to break even on a $75k investment into a paysite. Before opening a site you have to ask yourself, do I have enough funds/traffic to keep me above water during those 90 days before I can begin reaping profits. At least that would be very important for me if I was considering opening a site. It would be a shame to have a great site open only to close it before turning a profit.

bigdog · 12-26-2004, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike33

Interesting... has this program been sold yet? If so, how much did it go for and/or what is the asking price considering it does over $1mil in sales but only actually generates $1500 in profit? Slightly off topic but what would be a reasonable asking price for such a site?

Back to the topic, although I can't give any numbers because I've never owned a program, from what I'm reading, one needs to consider not only the cost involved in opening a paysite but also the period that it takes to recoup that investment. Alex stated around 90 days for him to break even on a $75k investment into a paysite. Before opening a site you have to ask yourself, do I have enough funds/traffic to keep me above water during those 90 days before I can begin reaping profits. At least that would be very important for me if I was considering opening a site. It would be a shame to have a great site open only to close it before turning a profit.

i am also wondering what program it is, the only program i have seen for sale recenlty is cswcash

Alex From San Diego · 12-26-2004, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadFidel

It better be expensive fucking beer.

ok...so I see 80k for 6 months.....really doesn't mean to much to me not knowing your margins. Lets assume you are kicking ass and have 30% margins....that is really 24k for that period or approx 48k per year.

So you are arond the Coors Light level.....LOL

Wizzo · 12-26-2004, 09:55 AM

Truth is you can start a paysite for a little as $5-$10k but don't expect a whole lot in return, unless you can fully support it with traffic and joins yourself.

But most decent mid-range sites run $50k-$100k startup and it helps to have another $10k-$25k per month for the 1st 3-6months... At that point you should be able to sustain a site and maybe even see some profit...

scoreman · 12-26-2004, 10:01 AM

Starting up a quality site costs way more than $5k. The software and hardware alone will set you back more than that. While it is probably true that going on the cheap is possible here, you can only go live with a budget like this if your sweat equity is high and you are very skilled in programming, design and marketing. Very few can wear all those hats and yet to be lacking in any one area can mean failure if you are not smart enough to recognize your deficiencies and outsource or hire.

Scales of economy play a major role in site development. After you have a decent sized operation in play, launching a new site takes alot less time and money. Even with all the hardware, software and labor in place, just aquiring quality content doesnt that is adequate for a launch doesnt seem possible for $5k.

Wizzo · 12-26-2004, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoplifter

Recently I bought and set up a string of TGP's to send traffic to my own paysites. I didn't have enough galleries to fill out all the niches on the TGP's so I started to do some affiliate work so I would have galleries for all the niches on the TGP's.

Low and behold there is an astonishing disparity in the value of the traffic sent to my own sites compared to the same traffic sent to PPS programs. I could list my own galleries in the wrong categories and still beat the PPS programs by almost 10:1.

Most newbies here don't have a benchmark for their traffic so they really don't know if they are being cheated or not. Unless someone is caught red handed shaving no one raises a stink about shitty ratios and the ongoing shaving theft just becomes part of "the way the business works".

On another note I was recently able to examine the stats of a +- $1 million gross PPS program that was up for sale. What was the profit after payouts on this program if it was run cleanly? About $1500 per week, jack squat. I'm sure there are others here who saw this and know what I'm talking about.

GFY is a razzle dazzle pimphat wearing fucktard kind of place full of gullible newbies with limited math skills. And as long as it is PPS and shaving will thrive.

I would challenge you to try StiffyCash or Porn DVD Dollars which both have PPS options and I assure you that every signup your traffic generates will be credited to you...

TheEbonyFelony · 12-26-2004, 10:13 AM

the key is to develop your own in house traffic sources and not rely on others

DeadFidel · 12-26-2004, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex From San Diego

ok...so I see 80k for 6 months.....really doesn't mean to much to me not knowing your margins. Lets assume you are kicking ass and have 30% margins....that is really 24k for that period or approx 48k per year.

So you are arond the Coors Light level.....LOL

30%? Now that's really funny; that may be your margin, fairly comprehensible by the cost factors you find acceptable, but not mine. I shoot, write, promote, and maintain everything.
I only pay for design and bandwidth. I am far from being a player, (in this biz anyway) and that is a very small part of my income.

...and on a side note:
"The difference between you and my company is I'm not running a few galleries out of moomy's house"

"moomy's house" never looked this good.
MY PLACE

sweetcuties · 12-26-2004, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheEbonyFelony

the key is to develop your own in house traffic sources and not rely on others

Well said. If this is who I think it is, hit me up on icq

Drake · 12-26-2004, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex From San Diego

I'll also add, that if you have an inclination to offer PPS, don't. PPS with these ridiculous payouts of 30-45 per signup is BS. If you need more of an explanation of why PPS is BS, contact me on ICQ after the holidays and I'll show you.

Ya, ya, I know what a lot of people will say you make it up on exits, upsells, cross sales, cancelled members emails, email collectors etc...trust me when I say this, it isn't enough. There isn't enough to cover overhead such as lease, utilities, taxes, salaries etc...

It's really interesting to get insight from somebody 'in the know' as you are since you operate sites. In your opinion what should/would a true Per Signup Payout based on a) trials (ex. 4.95 trial) b) full membership (ex. $29.99 membership) based on what you know about the ability to pay without any BS involved?

Judging by the post I would assume that $20-$25 would be reasonable? I had worked out some numbers on this about a year ago to see if I could understand some of the payout structures. I came in the range of $20-$25. How does that sound to you?

Drake · 12-26-2004, 10:31 AM

double post

wyldblyss · 12-26-2004, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex From San Diego

Sure you can put a site together for 5k-7k but more than likely, it will fail.

Our breakdown for a solid exclusive paysite is this:

15 Scenes to launch at 1500.00/scene: $22,500.00

10 quality DVD's of the same niche at 300.00/DVD: $3000.00

Editing and encoding to include all promo content: $6250.00

Site design which includes 2 page tour, 2 FPA, 2 HPA, various banners, 3 Mailer ads, 2 video FHG templates, 2 pic FHG templates: $5000.00

Programming: $1200.00
Jr Webmaster labor: $1000.00

Advertising for 1 month: $5000.00

Total cost: $43,950.00

Now don't forget you need 4 scenes per month for updates which is a cost of about $7500.00/month every month.

I left out all the admin stuff because it varies but as you can see, to do it right, you better have around 75k for an exclusive site because it will take you around 90 days from launch just to break even and that is if it is a solid site.

Hope that helps. Good luck

Now that is about the best breakdown I have seen here yet.
People can save if they have the programming and web design skills.

Drake · 12-26-2004, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoreman

Starting up a quality site costs way more than $5k [only]if your sweat equity is high and you are very skilled in programming, design and marketing. Very few can wear all those hats...

Scales of economy play a major role in site development. After you have a decent sized operation in play, launching a new site takes alot less time and money.

Interesting... well, you have a decent sized operation today. How did you get started? Did you always have money to draw from or did you wear all the 'hats' in the beginning so to speak?

Forgive my curiosity, it's my nature

AkiraSS · 12-26-2004, 10:36 AM

Say you need:
10 paysite designs = 15k
200 dvd movies x $200 full license = $40k
hosting x $5k x 6 months prepaid = $30k
affiliate program script x 6 months = $8k (nats)
----
$100k or so if you want to start a more serious business.

Mr. Pat · 12-26-2004, 10:37 AM

5-10k needed

bigdog · 12-26-2004, 10:49 AM

sites can be done for 5k easlily if you just buy a bunch of dvd content like many companies are doing now

Shoplifter · 12-26-2004, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizzo

I would challenge you to try StiffyCash or Porn DVD Dollars which both have PPS options and I assure you that every signup your traffic generates will be credited to you...

I'll take a look at this for sure.

TheEbonyFelony · 12-26-2004, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetcuties

Well said. If this is who I think it is, hit me up on icq

its me man..im hitting you up now

Alice22 · 12-26-2004, 04:27 PM

15 000$ for an exlusive pay site

Pornwolf · 12-26-2004, 04:38 PM

Naah, easily $100,000 or more for an exclusive site. I know somebody who knows somebody's brother that spent $1million on an exclusive site. Now that's what you have to do if you really want to convert and make money.

Yeah right.

Jeezus guys, some of these numbers are crack smokeable.

PhotoGreggXXX · 12-26-2004, 06:05 PM

We've been in 3 positions on costs of starting a paysite
1. Produced exclusive content for a number of companies to start-up
2. Produced exclusive content for a number of companies to partner with us for start-up
3. Produced exclusive content for US to start some sites.

Costs:
1. SilverCash and TopBucks spend $25-40K just in content to start an exclusive reality site. I'm sure they already have their programming and scripts in place for the affiliates and members areas. They do budget extra $$$, not sure how much, for advertising and promotion of the sites. Think of the ads and parties you see when the big boys launch a new site.

TushyCash started out with cheaper content costs, about $10k, but keep rolling that over for more and more content to keep their niche customers coming back, my guess based on what they've ordered from us and other producers we know, about $150k just in content.

2. We've partnered with numerous companies. I know my cost to produce 25 hardcore reality episodes of BikiniHookups.com is $34k. That's talent costs, camera crew, editing, encoding, and general expenses, not including a breakdown of our fixed expenses. Gamma spent an unknown amount of dollars to build the site, integrate it into their system and promote it. We share the profits after affiliate payouts 50/50.

3. My own sites are niche related, costs are $50-$100 per scene, and we've started with 40-75 scenes per site. Designs were $750, software for numerous things was traded for custom or exclusive content, our cost about $3k, we already had our own servers and just bumped the bandwidth. Traffic budget is $5k a month and we're rolling over sales income into more traffic deals. Plan is to test with various traffic for 6 months, add a new site a month, then push for affiliates.

Bottom line is: A paysite, no matter how much or how little you put into the intial investment, IS NOT a get rich quick deal. It's a long term business committment that takes constant fine-tuning and work. Only those that have the persistence to test constantly, analyze results daily, and re-invest to make the project better, will make ANY profit.

Drake · 12-26-2004, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhotoGreggXXX

We've been in 3 positions on costs of starting a paysite
1. Produced exclusive content for a number of companies to start-up
2. Produced exclusive content for a number of companies to partner with us for start-up
3. Produced exclusive content for US to start some sites.

Costs:
1. SilverCash and TopBucks spend $25-40K just in content to start an exclusive reality site. I'm sure they already have their programming and scripts in place for the affiliates and members areas. They do budget extra $$$, not sure how much, for advertising and promotion of the sites. Think of the ads and parties you see when the big boys launch a new site.

TushyCash started out with cheaper content costs, about $10k, but keep rolling that over for more and more content to keep their niche customers coming back, my guess based on what they've ordered from us and other producers we know, about $150k just in content.

2. We've partnered with numerous companies. I know my cost to produce 25 hardcore reality episodes of BikiniHookups.com is $34k. That's talent costs, camera crew, editing, encoding, and general expenses, not including a breakdown of our fixed expenses. Gamma spent an unknown amount of dollars to build the site, integrate it into their system and promote it. We share the profits after affiliate payouts 50/50.

3. My own sites are niche related, costs are $50-$100 per scene, and we've started with 40-75 scenes per site. Designs were $750, software for numerous things was traded for custom or exclusive content, our cost about $3k, we already had our own servers and just bumped the bandwidth. Traffic budget is $5k a month and we're rolling over sales income into more traffic deals. Plan is to test with various traffic for 6 months, add a new site a month, then push for affiliates.

Bottom line is: A paysite, no matter how much or how little you put into the intial investment, IS NOT a get rich quick deal. It's a long term business committment that takes constant fine-tuning and work. Only those that have the persistence to test constantly, analyze results daily, and re-invest to make the project better, will make ANY profit.

Very insightful. Thanks!

Fatalspeed · 12-26-2004, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhotoGreggXXX

We've been in 3 positions on costs of starting a paysite
1. Produced exclusive content for a number of companies to start-up
2. Produced exclusive content for a number of companies to partner with us for start-up
3. Produced exclusive content for US to start some sites.

Costs:
1. SilverCash and TopBucks spend $25-40K just in content to start an exclusive reality site. I'm sure they already have their programming and scripts in place for the affiliates and members areas. They do budget extra $$$, not sure how much, for advertising and promotion of the sites. Think of the ads and parties you see when the big boys launch a new site.

TushyCash started out with cheaper content costs, about $10k, but keep rolling that over for more and more content to keep their niche customers coming back, my guess based on what they've ordered from us and other producers we know, about $150k just in content.

2. We've partnered with numerous companies. I know my cost to produce 25 hardcore reality episodes of BikiniHookups.com is $34k. That's talent costs, camera crew, editing, encoding, and general expenses, not including a breakdown of our fixed expenses. Gamma spent an unknown amount of dollars to build the site, integrate it into their system and promote it. We share the profits after affiliate payouts 50/50.

3. My own sites are niche related, costs are $50-$100 per scene, and we've started with 40-75 scenes per site. Designs were $750, software for numerous things was traded for custom or exclusive content, our cost about $3k, we already had our own servers and just bumped the bandwidth. Traffic budget is $5k a month and we're rolling over sales income into more traffic deals. Plan is to test with various traffic for 6 months, add a new site a month, then push for affiliates.

Bottom line is: A paysite, no matter how much or how little you put into the intial investment, IS NOT a get rich quick deal. It's a long term business committment that takes constant fine-tuning and work. Only those that have the persistence to test constantly, analyze results daily, and re-invest to make the project better, will make ANY profit.

nice!

Pornwolf · 12-26-2004, 06:18 PM

I like that Greg guy. Real numbers from top to bottom. Cheers PG

Alex From San Diego · 12-27-2004, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdog

Alex if you were to open up a pps program how much could you afford to pay out per join?

That is a good question. Prior to launching our program, I did a pretty extensive spreadsheet based on two programs with various payouts.
They were 60% revshare, PPS with 25.00, 30.00 and 35.00 payouts.

Consider these variables:

$3.95 trials
$34.95 full memberships
14% CC processing fees

Assume you have a 40% trial conversion to full memberships and each month 60% of those full memberships continue to rebill.

Lets evaluate how much 50 trials are worth.

50 trials less processing fees: $170.00

50 x 40%=20 full memberships: $600.00

Month 2 - 60% of those 20 will rebill which is 12: $360.00
Month 3 - 60% of those 12 will rebill which is 7.2: $216.00
Month 4 - 60% of those 7.2 will rebill which is 4.3: $129.60
Month 5 - 60% of those 4.3 will rebill which is 2.6: $77.76
Month 6 - 60% of those 2.6 will rebill which is 1.6: $46.66
Month 7 - 60% of those 1.6 will rebill which is .9: $27.99

Total dollars earned from those original 50 trials after 7 months: $1628.00

The value of those 50 trials is worth $1628.00/50 trials or $32.56 each

The question affiliates should ask, is what is the value of each trial not what is the value of each member.

If I was to pay $30.00 per join, I am left with $2.56 per join after 7 months.
Don't forget, that is $2.56 per join using the variables of 40% trial conversions and 60% of those continue to rebill each month.

So the question is, will $2.56 per join cover all the overhead costs of running a paysite? I think we know the answer is no. If the answer is no, then how can there be so many programs out there that offer these outrageous payouts of 30.00 - 45.00 per join?

Yes I know, I can earn dollars on exits, cross sales, upsells, email cancelled members...etc....I have figured that into my spreadsheet as well. So then that must mean these programs are making their income based on these other means of generating revenues. Hmmmm, really?....makes you scratch your head.

Theo · 12-27-2004, 06:16 AM

great post Alex. Let me add to that the average PPS doesnt do any email marketing at all and their upsales is a banner or text link. These exits must worth a lot these days .lol

Alex From San Diego · 12-27-2004, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul_Rebel

great post Alex. Let me add to that the average PPS doesnt do any email marketing at all and their upsales is a banner or text link. These exits must worth a lot these days .lol

If I add more exits and a few more banners in my members area, I too can maybe throw an extravaganza at the next internext....lol

bigdog · 12-27-2004, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex From San Diego

That is a good question. Prior to launching our program, I did a pretty extensive spreadsheet based on two programs with various payouts.
They were 60% revshare, PPS with 25.00, 30.00 and 35.00 payouts.

Consider these variables:

$3.95 trials
$34.95 full memberships
14% CC processing fees

Assume you have a 40% trial conversion to full memberships and each month 60% of those full memberships continue to rebill.

Lets evaluate how much 50 trials are worth.

50 trials less processing fees: $170.00

50 x 40%=20 full memberships: $600.00

Month 2 - 60% of those 20 will rebill which is 12: $360.00
Month 3 - 60% of those 12 will rebill which is 7.2: $216.00
Month 4 - 60% of those 7.2 will rebill which is 4.3: $129.60
Month 5 - 60% of those 4.3 will rebill which is 2.6: $77.76
Month 6 - 60% of those 2.6 will rebill which is 1.6: $46.66
Month 7 - 60% of those 1.6 will rebill which is .9: $27.99

Total dollars earned from those original 50 trials after 7 months: $1628.00

The value of those 50 trials is worth $1628.00/50 trials or $32.56 each

The question affiliates should ask, is what is the value of each trial not what is the value of each member.

If I was to pay $30.00 per join, I am left with $2.56 per join after 7 months.
Don't forget, that is $2.56 per join using the variables of 40% trial conversions and 60% of those continue to rebill each month.

So the question is, will $2.56 per join cover all the overhead costs of running a paysite? I think we know the answer is no. If the answer is no, then how can there be so many programs out there that offer these outrageous payouts of 30.00 - 45.00 per join?

Yes I know, I can earn dollars on exits, cross sales, upsells, email cancelled members...etc....I have figured that into my spreadsheet as well. So then that must mean these programs are making their income based on these other means of generating revenues. Hmmmm, really?....makes you scratch your head.

A 40% trial to monthly you are being very generous.

andrej_NDC · 12-27-2004, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex From San Diego

That is a good question. Prior to launching our program, I did a pretty extensive spreadsheet based on two programs with various payouts.
They were 60% revshare, PPS with 25.00, 30.00 and 35.00 payouts.

Consider these variables:

$3.95 trials
$34.95 full memberships
14% CC processing fees

Assume you have a 40% trial conversion to full memberships and each month 60% of those full memberships continue to rebill.

Lets evaluate how much 50 trials are worth.

50 trials less processing fees: $170.00

50 x 40%=20 full memberships: $600.00

Month 2 - 60% of those 20 will rebill which is 12: $360.00
Month 3 - 60% of those 12 will rebill which is 7.2: $216.00
Month 4 - 60% of those 7.2 will rebill which is 4.3: $129.60
Month 5 - 60% of those 4.3 will rebill which is 2.6: $77.76
Month 6 - 60% of those 2.6 will rebill which is 1.6: $46.66
Month 7 - 60% of those 1.6 will rebill which is .9: $27.99

Total dollars earned from those original 50 trials after 7 months: $1628.00

The value of those 50 trials is worth $1628.00/50 trials or $32.56 each

The question affiliates should ask, is what is the value of each trial not what is the value of each member.

If I was to pay $30.00 per join, I am left with $2.56 per join after 7 months.
Don't forget, that is $2.56 per join using the variables of 40% trial conversions and 60% of those continue to rebill each month.

So the question is, will $2.56 per join cover all the overhead costs of running a paysite? I think we know the answer is no. If the answer is no, then how can there be so many programs out there that offer these outrageous payouts of 30.00 - 45.00 per join?

Yes I know, I can earn dollars on exits, cross sales, upsells, email cancelled members...etc....I have figured that into my spreadsheet as well. So then that must mean these programs are making their income based on these other means of generating revenues. Hmmmm, really?....makes you scratch your head.

many sites who pay per SU have trials rebilling at $40, so it would look like
$170
$700

420
245
150
90
50
35
=
1860 / 50 = $37 + exits, usells, cross sales, mailings
So the result is, that a program with a good retention can easily pay high amount of $$$ per SU, programs with a bad retention...I dont know...

Theo · 12-27-2004, 06:34 AM

You cant have a guaranteed 40% to full membership on generic traffic coming from various sources no matter how good is your members area. It's not different from the way ifriends credit you future sales. They adapt the sales they credit you based on your traffic quality. Bottom line, nobody will pay you more than what your traffic worths.

andrej_NDC · 12-27-2004, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul_Rebel

You cant have a guaranteed 40% to full membership on generic traffic coming from various sources no matter how good is your members area. It's not different from the way ifriends credit you future sales. They adapt the sales they credit you based on your traffic quality. Bottom line, nobody will pay you more than what your traffic worths.

of course, its not that easy to have 40% trial to full conversions on all types of traffic, therefore I said, that programs with GOOD retention can pay per SU easily, others cant

Theo · 12-27-2004, 06:38 AM

maybe i should post some paysite passwords again like i did before christmas to see some of you what kind of content will retain at 60%

Alex From San Diego · 12-27-2004, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

many sites who pay per SU have trials rebilling at $40, so it would look like
$170
$700

420
245
150
90
50
35
=
1860 / 50 = $37 + exits, usells, cross sales, mailings
So the result is, that a program with a good retention can easily pay high amount of $$$ per SU, programs with a bad retention...I dont know...

Show me a program that 60% or more of their current members rebill month after month : ))

Even with a 40.00 membership fee + exits, upsells, cross sales, mailings, you still can't pay 35.00 PS....you might be able to get away with 20.00 PS

But you better have a 40% conversion and a 60% rebill at the minimum.

bigdog · 12-27-2004, 06:46 AM

i hear naughtyamerica does something like 40% trial to monthly rebill

Fake Nick · 12-27-2004, 06:46 AM

:costumed-

12-25-2004, 05:36 PM	#52
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	most big affiliate programs are still running piece of shit paysites with maybe $5000 spent per site - most of it on a fancy front end. They'll come to GFY with their reps showing it off like it's some work of art and months in development and morons and ass kissers will ooh and aaah at the glorious piece of crap. And they'll talk about the hundreds of plugins inside in lieu of exclusive content but plugins are extremely cheap today, you can add a plugin to 50 Bozo Bucks sites for cheap. this biz is still about fucking over the customer, delivering a $2 dollar product for 35 bucks a month. and yes you could make the argument that NIKE and Coca Cola do the same. Except most NIKE wearers and Coke drinkers know the product and like it, even though they know the product itself is worth a small fraction of what they paid for it. The numbers of people running quality sites and programs is on the increase though. Alex if you're paying $300 for a DVD license you are either 1)lying or 2)getting ripped off. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

12-25-2004, 07:08 PM	#58
UniversalPassLorence Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Califonia Posts: 3,721	It all depends on the quality of content, if it is exclusive or not, & how much content. __________________ $25.00 PPS for $1.00 Trial Making Webmasters Money Since 1997 ICQ: 305090349

12-26-2004, 09:55 AM	#69
Wizzo 2011 GFY Hall of Fame! Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Back in Texas! Posts: 15,224	Truth is you can start a paysite for a little as $5-$10k but don't expect a whole lot in return, unless you can fully support it with traffic and joins yourself. But most decent mid-range sites run $50k-$100k startup and it helps to have another $10k-$25k per month for the 1st 3-6months... At that point you should be able to sustain a site and maybe even see some profit... __________________ Looking for Opportunity!

12-26-2004, 10:01 AM	#70
scoreman Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 1,491	Starting up a quality site costs way more than $5k. The software and hardware alone will set you back more than that. While it is probably true that going on the cheap is possible here, you can only go live with a budget like this if your sweat equity is high and you are very skilled in programming, design and marketing. Very few can wear all those hats and yet to be lacking in any one area can mean failure if you are not smart enough to recognize your deficiencies and outsource or hire. Scales of economy play a major role in site development. After you have a decent sized operation in play, launching a new site takes alot less time and money. Even with all the hardware, software and labor in place, just aquiring quality content doesnt that is adequate for a launch doesnt seem possible for $5k. __________________

12-26-2004, 10:13 AM	#72
TheEbonyFelony Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: hidden village of the sand..TRAINING TO KILL NARUTO Posts: 1,964	the key is to develop your own in house traffic sources and not rely on others __________________ no you cannot know what im promoting you nosey fucks!

12-25-2004, 05:15 PM	#51
MetaMan I AM WEB 2.0 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,682	where do these people come from? please see topic: "how much can a 50k tgp make?" thank you.

12-25-2004, 07:17 PM	#60
bigdog Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 6,964	Alex if you were to open up a pps program how much could you afford to pay out per join?

12-26-2004, 10:31 AM	#76
Drake Hello world! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 12,508	double post

12-26-2004, 10:36 AM	#79
AkiraSS Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ICQ: 17630227 Posts: 2,988	Say you need: 10 paysite designs = 15k 200 dvd movies x $200 full license = $40k hosting x $5k x 6 months prepaid = $30k affiliate program script x 6 months = $8k (nats) ---- $100k or so if you want to start a more serious business.

12-26-2004, 10:37 AM	#80
Mr. Pat Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: seattle Posts: 547	5-10k needed __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60. Let me repeat... A 120 x 60 button and no more that 3 lines of DEFAULT SIZE AND COLOR text.

12-26-2004, 10:49 AM	#81
bigdog Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 6,964	sites can be done for 5k easlily if you just buy a bunch of dvd content like many companies are doing now

12-26-2004, 04:27 PM	#84
Alice22 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 907	15 000$ for an exlusive pay site

12-26-2004, 04:38 PM	#85
Pornwolf Drunk and Unruly Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 22,712	Naah, easily $100,000 or more for an exclusive site. I know somebody who knows somebody's brother that spent $1million on an exclusive site. Now that's what you have to do if you really want to convert and make money. Yeah right. Jeezus guys, some of these numbers are crack smokeable. __________________ I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade... Webair, bitches.

12-26-2004, 06:05 PM	#86
PhotoGreggXXX Confirmed User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,616	We've been in 3 positions on costs of starting a paysite 1. Produced exclusive content for a number of companies to start-up 2. Produced exclusive content for a number of companies to partner with us for start-up 3. Produced exclusive content for US to start some sites. Costs: 1. SilverCash and TopBucks spend $25-40K just in content to start an exclusive reality site. I'm sure they already have their programming and scripts in place for the affiliates and members areas. They do budget extra $$$, not sure how much, for advertising and promotion of the sites. Think of the ads and parties you see when the big boys launch a new site. TushyCash started out with cheaper content costs, about $10k, but keep rolling that over for more and more content to keep their niche customers coming back, my guess based on what they've ordered from us and other producers we know, about $150k just in content. 2. We've partnered with numerous companies. I know my cost to produce 25 hardcore reality episodes of BikiniHookups.com is $34k. That's talent costs, camera crew, editing, encoding, and general expenses, not including a breakdown of our fixed expenses. Gamma spent an unknown amount of dollars to build the site, integrate it into their system and promote it. We share the profits after affiliate payouts 50/50. 3. My own sites are niche related, costs are $50-$100 per scene, and we've started with 40-75 scenes per site. Designs were $750, software for numerous things was traded for custom or exclusive content, our cost about $3k, we already had our own servers and just bumped the bandwidth. Traffic budget is $5k a month and we're rolling over sales income into more traffic deals. Plan is to test with various traffic for 6 months, add a new site a month, then push for affiliates. Bottom line is: A paysite, no matter how much or how little you put into the intial investment, IS NOT a get rich quick deal. It's a long term business committment that takes constant fine-tuning and work. Only those that have the persistence to test constantly, analyze results daily, and re-invest to make the project better, will make ANY profit. __________________ PornPayouts! Tons of Exclusive new HI Dev Videos... Home of the WeDo Girls! e-mail: [email protected] ICQ - 138-053-157

12-26-2004, 06:18 PM	#89
Pornwolf Drunk and Unruly Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 22,712	I like that Greg guy. Real numbers from top to bottom. Cheers PG __________________ I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade... Webair, bitches.

12-27-2004, 06:16 AM	#91
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	great post Alex. Let me add to that the average PPS doesnt do any email marketing at all and their upsales is a banner or text link. These exits must worth a lot these days .lol

12-27-2004, 06:34 AM	#95
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	You cant have a guaranteed 40% to full membership on generic traffic coming from various sources no matter how good is your members area. It's not different from the way ifriends credit you future sales. They adapt the sales they credit you based on your traffic quality. Bottom line, nobody will pay you more than what your traffic worths.

12-27-2004, 06:38 AM	#97
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	maybe i should post some paysite passwords again like i did before christmas to see some of you what kind of content will retain at 60%

12-27-2004, 06:46 AM	#99
bigdog Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 6,964	i hear naughtyamerica does something like 40% trial to monthly rebill

12-27-2004, 06:46 AM	#100
Fake Nick So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: go troll goo! Posts: 7,708	:costumed-