Dare I say...Is the adult internet becoming saturated by too many programs?

[MetaformX]

Alot of people are complaining of poor conversions this month and on the surface, conversions seem to be on the decline as a whole...so the question is, do you think the adult internet is becoming oversaturated?

There is no doubt that there is a saturation point for any industry...Are we inching towards that point? Or do we still have alot of room before that happens? Does the industry have room for so many new programs that seem to be popping up on a daily basis?

[polish_aristocrat]

Most new programs aren't innovative at all and in fact they aren't even worth to be looked at.

But I said most, so ocassionaly still a new program emerges that offers something slightly new and is solid.

And IMO the reason for shitty conversions are more educated surfers and the endless amounts of free porn.

[MetaMan]

there is tons of room to grow, certain niches are saturated to shit, so i dont know what people are complaining about when they get low conversions, the true players that continue to innovate and adapt will always be around. im sick of all the new programs and yes 90% are all the same.

[Mr Pock]

Hum.. Just take some looks around there are some great programs around. You just have to be able to promote them. See here :P

[bigdog]

There a lot of new programs, but most are not offering any different pricing models are content. Everyone is buying dvd content and becoming a sponsor now.

[Sly]

Does this mean you won't be launching Studio Cash?

[Furious_Female]

Originally posted by polish_aristocrat
Most new programs aren't innovative at all and in fact they aren't even worth to be looked at.

But I said most, so ocassionaly still a new program emerges that offers something slightly new and is solid.

And IMO the reason for shitty conversions are more educated surfers and the endless amounts of free porn.

Amen!

I'd also like to add that some sponsors have REALLY awful members areas... to the point where I won't promote a site if the members' area sucks because I fear chargebacks, complaints etc and I don't feel good when people get ripped off. I believe at $40-$50 rebills, they should get their money's worth.

The current pattern seems to be:
Surfer wants to become a webmaster so they can quit their day job and look at naked girls all day and then eventually open their own site. WHY? How many sites/programs do we need? Why does everyone think they are going to make more money than the next person, when they are just copying the same things over and over.

The internet is saturated with too much free porn, too many webmasters and yes, surfers are a LOT smarter than they were 5 years ago. You think they are smart now, wait until the next generation.

Everyone wants to make a quick buck or 2, but very few are planning long term. Seems like everyone wants to be a spammer these days and/or own their own sites/programs. Blah blah blah.

Too many chiefs, not enough indians.

[pxxx]

Originally posted by polish_aristocrat
Most new programs aren't innovative at all and in fact they aren't even worth to be looked at.

But I said most, so ocassionaly still a new program emerges that offers something slightly new and is solid.

And IMO the reason for shitty conversions are more educated surfers and the endless amounts of free porn.

You took the words out of my mouth.

[Probono]

To quote the authority, Chicken Little, the sky is falling.

The vanilla porn industry is a big pie that is growing more slowly than the number of sites, free and pay, being added daily. There is a lot to be earned but spread by the 80/20 rule.

The past was innovation, the future is innovation.


So damn it innovate!!!

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally posted by Furious_Female
Amen!

That being said, we will probably also launch our first paysite and program, in about 3 months.

But I can assure you, that the site won't go live, until I am confident it has the potential to become one of the best retaining paysites on the web... and no, I am not exaggerating.

[bigdog]

Originally posted by Furious_Female
Amen!

I'd also like to add that some sponsors have REALLY awful members areas... to the point where I won't promote a site if the members' area sucks because I fear chargebacks, complaints etc and I don't feel good when people get ripped off. I believe at $40-$50 rebills, they should get their money's worth.

The current pattern seems to be:
Surfer wants to become a webmaster so they can quit their day job and look at naked girls all day and then eventually open their own site. WHY? How many sites/programs do we need? Why does everyone think they are going to make more money than the next person, when they are just copying the same things over and over.

The internet is saturated with too much free porn, too many webmasters and yes, surfers are a LOT smarter than they were 5 years ago. You think they are smart now, wait until the next generation.

Everyone wants to make a quick buck or 2, but very few are planning long term. Seems like everyone wants to be a spammer these days and/or own their own sites/programs. Blah blah blah.

Too many chiefs, not enough indians.

Good point, they come out with the same shit everyone else has, and then to top it off they only offer revshare,and then they wonder why the can't get any affiliates.

[Spunky]

there is room for a lot more differant niches but then they would be saturated as well

[MetaformX]

Originally posted by Sly
Does this mean you won't be launching Studio Cash?

No, I am definetly launching StudioCash. I am just kind of baffled by the fact that there is so many people putting a few crappy sites together and putting out a program that looks and acts like everyone else out there, and I am wondering, how much more saturation can the market handle?

[Sly]

Originally posted by MetaformX
No, I am definetly launching StudioCash. I am just kind of baffled by the fact that there is so many people putting a few crappy sites together and putting out a program that looks and acts like everyone else out there, and I am wondering, how much more saturation can the market handle?

I think thats more stupidity than actual saturation. They think by throwing together a couple paysites with content that everybody else has will make the affiliates flock. I don't think there's anything at all wrong with those paysites, but the person who opens them needs to realize that in order to really make money you need your own traffic source. Depending on affiliates is a huge mistake that many seem to make.

With that said, I've been seeing other programs cutting out updates in order to finance the building of new sites. They want to become a 25-30 site paysite empire real quick. I hate that.

A good, SOLID program has regular updates for every site in their network. That is quality. And that is what will last.

[EscortBiz]

well you really cant count programs with a bunch of bullshit tours leading to BS members area

As far as new programs with real exclusive content well very few new ones in 04

The rest non exclusive are not going to last long the cycle they have is simple, start the program spend money, lose money try to make a bullshit content about their bullshit sites, lose again, place a banner on a message board, lose again and bamn they make an annoncment they have to leave because they are marrying donold trumps doughter or they make no annoncement they just leave with their tail between their legs

spelling erros galore im in a hurry

[European Lee]

What you people seem to be missing is the fact that most affiliate programs have opened to benefit themselves, the reality of it is that 90% or more of these affiliate programs couldnt care less about you as an affiliate.

All they want is your traffic.

Beleive it or not, the cookie cutter business model from early '99 onwards is still one of the most profitable business models that an affiliate program can market.. instant traffic in a wide reach of niches for as little work as possible.

Recurring memberships are not the be all and end all of an affiliate program, trading the traffic that you send to the programs paysites effectively is what will mean the success or failure of any specific program in the longhaul.

If you happen to make a sale or two in the process of sending your traffic to an affiliate program good for you but the reality of it is, that is second place to the ultimate goal of the program.. to make money for themselves.. by any means possible.

Why do you think PPS programs have so many consoles? For every 100 hits you send them.. a minimum of 20% of those hits get sent to a different affiliate program making the program money and not the webmaster.. its a pure numbers game.. he [or she] who has the most traffic, make the most money.. for themselves.

Regards,

Lee

[MetaformX]

Originally posted by Sly
I think thats more stupidity than actual saturation. They think by throwing together a couple paysites with content that everybody else has will make the affiliates flock. I don't think there's anything at all wrong with those paysites, but the person who opens them needs to realize that in order to really make money you need your own traffic source. Depending on affiliates is a huge mistake that many seem to make.

With that said, I've been seeing other programs cutting out updates in order to finance the building of new sites. They want to become a 25-30 site paysite empire real quick. I hate that.

A good, SOLID program has regular updates for every site in their network. That is quality. And that is what will last.

Your right on...The way I look at it is you can be part of the pack and follow or you can innovate and lead. I don't understand why so many want to follow.

[Martin]

I had a couple of really bad days the last few days.. Things are slowly getting better now but for the most part I don't see a decline at all.

[studio]

Originally posted by Sly
A good, SOLID program has regular updates for every site in their network. That is quality. And that is what will last.

Sly, Very well said, But the funny thing is webmasters don't seem to care... When I decided to open a paysite it was because I was already shooting exclusive content for some of the best sites on the net. So I built up content over 3 years before I opened pineapplepink. I do 3 updates a week, plus the 11 plug in site my members enjoy also up date once a week.

But webmasters are blind to that... Most are looking for the quick buck. $40 to $100 per sign up. Then they piss and moan about shaving and shit.

Look at the programs that are really kicking ass and putting out a quality product. They are 50/50 Rev. share! because they know what it costs to do it right. When all the dust settles, the sites that do it right will survive... and the rest will parish.

I can tell you that pineapplepink will be there, because I shoot content to make a living and my site pineapplepink will continue to get better every week.

[69pornlinks]

no, because most won't last past a year....out of how many programs opened within the last 18 months how many are still around

[DTK]

Originally posted by 69pornlinks
no, because most won't last past a year....out of how many programs opened within the last 18 months how many are still around

PIBCash is still kicking ass

[NoCarrier]

Originally posted by Mr Pock
Hum.. Just take some looks around there are some great programs around. You just have to be able to promote them. See here :P

There's nothing innovative with fake incest sites, that's just sick. Go to hell.

[iwantchixx]

i think that it is becomming slightly saturated with programs all pushing the same types of sites but in the whole picture i say bring it on. Not all will survive. Most new programs won't be here a year from now.

[latinasojourn]

as some have said the surfer has already seen everything.

there is only so much innovative, original content.

the affiliate model is all fluff---the surfer understands now that the 30-50/month monthly membership is a 50% marketing fee.

so he goes with the smaller boutique site that has original content for 19.95/mo.

create original content, and the surfer will signup.

[bigdog]

Originally posted by studio
Sly, Very well said, But the funny thing is webmasters don't seem to care... When I decided to open a paysite it was because I was already shooting exclusive content for some of the best sites on the net. So I built up content over 3 years before I opened pineapplepink. I do 3 updates a week, plus the 11 plug in site my members enjoy also up date once a week.

But webmasters are blind to that... Most are looking for the quick buck. $40 to $100 per sign up. Then they piss and moan about shaving and shit.

Look at the programs that are really kicking ass and putting out a quality product. They are 50/50 Rev. share! because they know what it costs to do it right. When all the dust settles, the sites that do it right will survive... and the rest will parish.

I can tell you that pineapplepink will be there, because I shoot content to make a living and my site pineapplepink will continue to get better every week.

Most webmasters like pps. The only revshares i promote are usally for niches where i can't find a decent pps sponsor.Even if i am getting shaved i still wind up making more money with pps programs then revshare

[Babagirls]

Originally posted by polish_aristocrat
And IMO the reason for shitty conversions are more educated surfers and the endless amounts of free porn.

100% agreed.

[JSA Matt]

never

[Steve_NCH]

Interesting thread, nice to find it amongst all the 'would you hit it' ones.

I agree we are now seeing the ramifications of too much free porn. Most TGPs and free sites offer enough explicit pics to get a lot of surfers off.

The programs that survive will be the ones that offer the surfer either original content they can't find at other sites, or give the surfer a genuinely good members area that delivers what they signed up for - not a few generic plug-ins and some tired old pics.

[European Lee]

Originally posted by Steve_NCH
The programs that survive will be the ones that offer the surfer either original content they can't find at other sites, or give the surfer a genuinely good members area that delivers what they signed up for

No.

The programs that survive will be the ones that have the best traffic maximization strategy.

Just becase the average webmaster thinks the best way for a program to keep making money is to keep their surfers recurring, that doesnt mean that is the best way for a program to make money.

FACT - Every PPS sponsor that has a member which reccurs past the first month LOSES money on what they have paid the affiliate, $50 for a $3 trial just doesnt work mathematically, no matter how you play with the figures.

Have you seen the inside of ANY of the larger PPS paysites? They are nothing but plug in content and perhaps 12 sets of images if the member is lucky.

What does this tell you? The answer is simple, they dont care whether or not a surfer retains.. all they care about is that as an affiliate, you keep sending them traffic so they can profit from it on their exit chains.

Quality, original content has nothing to do with making sure a surfer retains on the PPS business model.. its to make sure that you as a webmaster continues to send traffic to the sponsors sites whilst they make the real money putting that content on DVDs in real bricks and mortar stores.

Regards,

Lee

[jayeff]

Originally posted by Steve_NCH
I agree we are now seeing the ramifications of too much free porn. Most TGPs and free sites offer enough explicit pics to get a lot of surfers off.

The programs that survive will be the ones that offer the surfer either original content they can't find at other sites, or give the surfer a genuinely good members area that delivers what they signed up for - not a few generic plug-ins and some tired old pics.

Your answer is contradictory: if surfers are satisfied by volumes of low-quality porn, where is the demand for quality porn to come from that will allow sites which deliver it to survive?

If there were no free porn or even markedly less (neither of which is a reasonable expectation anyway), selling might be easier for a while. But the vast majority of surfers who are satisfied with what is available for free, are not, - except in our imaginations - potential customers for sites charging $20-$40 and up every month.

European Lee has it right. That explanation is why most affiliates and the few site owners who are genuinely interested in retaining members, have a totally different point of view from the majority of sponsors, including most of the biggest and best-known. That is why these industry names keep churning out the same old rubbish, despite years of people forecasting that the day is done for sites of this kind.

The logic for supporting such sponsors is extremely poor. We not only sell despite their efforts, but disillusioned surfers become much harder sales targets next time around. Unfortunately there are too few really solid sites offering affiliate programs for us all to promote them. The ones using the model EL describes maintain the highest public profiles via boards like this, offer the highest payouts, and basically press all the right buttons to keep affiliates signing up. And albeit based mainly on past performance, they also have among the best reputations as money earners, so we look them to bring back the "good old days".

Nor would I forecast their imminent demise, although the writing is on the wall. These programs used to thrive for years, but nowadays new ones tend to fizzle rather than spark, and even that only briefly. There is frequently only a few months between one version of a program and the next, or the program simply withers as it becomes obvious that the sponsor has turned his attention to other things.

One reason it still works at all, is that with this model, individual affiliates are going to feel any downturn a long time before the program owners do. 2000 is commonly talked about as the year when the boom ended for affiliates and my guess would be that the program operators didn't start to feel any pinch until 2003. They are probably still able to deal with it fairly well, although the cost of sales must be steadily climbing.

Although the decline of this marketing model can only be good for the industry in the long run, short-term it will be painful. It isn't easy to completely reinvent yourself and it is very difficult to turn away from something which has served you so well, even when reason says it is the right thing to do. Yet while these programs remain dominant, it will be difficult for others to get a foothold. Thus we are seeing lots of people starting to run their own sites, but very few putting any serious effort into appealing to affiliates.

The rules of supply and demand should ensure that in another couple of years there will be enough strong new programs to replace those which are declining. But during the transition many affiliates are going to find it very hard to maintain a strong portfolio.

[XSAXS]

Every pornmaster should vanquish the word FREE from his/her vocabulary. If we could all get rid of the word FREE, then it wouldn't take long for surfers to figure out that quality porn is worth paying for.

[XSAXS]

Originally posted by jayeff
Your answer is contradictory: if surfers are satisfied by volumes of low-quality porn, where is the demand for quality porn to come from that will allow sites which deliver it to survive?

If there were no free porn or even markedly less (neither of which is a reasonable expectation anyway), selling might be easier for a while. But the vast majority of surfers who are satisfied with what is available for free, are not, - except in our imaginations - potential customers for sites charging $20-$40 and up every month.

European Lee has it right. That explanation is why most affiliates and the few site owners who are genuinely interested in retaining members, have a totally different point of view from the majority of sponsors, including most of the biggest and best-known. That is why these industry names keep churning out the same old rubbish, despite years of people forecasting that the day is done for sites of this kind.

The logic for supporting such sponsors is extremely poor. We not only sell despite their efforts, but disillusioned surfers become much harder sales targets next time around. Unfortunately there are too few really solid sites offering affiliate programs for us all to promote them. The ones using the model EL describes maintain the highest public profiles via boards like this, offer the highest payouts, and basically press all the right buttons to keep affiliates signing up. And albeit based mainly on past performance, they also have among the best reputations as money earners, so we look them to bring back the "good old days".

Nor would I forecast their imminent demise, although the writing is on the wall. These programs used to thrive for years, but nowadays new ones tend to fizzle rather than spark, and even that only briefly. There is frequently only a few months between one version of a program and the next, or the program simply withers as it becomes obvious that the sponsor has turned his attention to other things.

One reason it still works at all, is that with this model, individual affiliates are going to feel any downturn a long time before the program owners do. 2000 is commonly talked about as the year when the boom ended for affiliates and my guess would be that the program operators didn't start to feel any pinch until 2003. They are probably still able to deal with it fairly well, although the cost of sales must be steadily climbing.

Although the decline of this marketing model can only be good for the industry in the long run, short-term it will be painful. It isn't easy to completely reinvent yourself and it is very difficult to turn away from something which has served you so well, even when reason says it is the right thing to do. Yet while these programs remain dominant, it will be difficult for others to get a foothold. Thus we are seeing lots of people starting to run their own sites, but very few putting any serious effort into appealing to affiliates.

The rules of supply and demand should ensure that in another couple of years there will be enough strong new programs to replace those which are declining. But during the transition many affiliates are going to find it very hard to maintain a strong portfolio.

For a guy from Kansas...that's one amazing (and I believe accurate) post!

BTW...no offense about being from Kansas. I was born there, and now I'm in "misery"...the state to your east.

[Manowar]

Originally posted by polish_aristocrat
Most new programs aren't innovative at all and in fact they aren't even worth to be looked at.

But I said most, so ocassionaly still a new program emerges that offers something slightly new and is solid.

And IMO the reason for shitty conversions are more educated surfers and the endless amounts of free porn.

Yep, but if you have a quality product - it will sell and retain.

[jayeff]

Originally posted by XSAXS
..no offense about being from Kansas.

No offense taken, if only because I was born in the north of England and spent most of my life in London

[bigdog]

finally a good thread on gfy

[Matt_WildCash]

Originally posted by European Lee
What you people seem to be missing is the fact that most affiliate programs have opened to benefit themselves, the reality of it is that 90% or more of these affiliate programs couldnt care less about you as an affiliate.

All they want is your traffic.

Beleive it or not, the cookie cutter business model from early '99 onwards is still one of the most profitable business models that an affiliate program can market.. instant traffic in a wide reach of niches for as little work as possible.

Recurring memberships are not the be all and end all of an affiliate program, trading the traffic that you send to the programs paysites effectively is what will mean the success or failure of any specific program in the longhaul.

If you happen to make a sale or two in the process of sending your traffic to an affiliate program good for you but the reality of it is, that is second place to the ultimate goal of the program.. to make money for themselves.. by any means possible.

Why do you think PPS programs have so many consoles? For every 100 hits you send them.. a minimum of 20% of those hits get sent to a different affiliate program making the program money and not the webmaster.. its a pure numbers game.. he [or she] who has the most traffic, make the most money.. for themselves.

Regards,

Lee

Yes of course we open our programs to benifit ourselfs, we are not running our affilate programs for charity you know. The good ones are the ones that make the affialte a huge amount of money for the traffic they send. Conversions is what its all about and helping the affilates make as much money as possible and giving them the tools to do it.

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally posted by latinasojourn


the affiliate model is all fluff---the surfer understands now that the 30-50/month monthly membership is a 50% marketing fee.

I am not so sure that many surfers are aware of how this business works. IMO most probably aren't.

[Matt_WildCash]

Oh btw, this industry hasn't hit its breaking point by anymeans. Do we se sponsor programs dieing off every month? NOPE, we see most of them growing and building more sites, more content and free hosting now available to all affilates. Being a sponsor isn't easy right now as it requires that you do everything under the sun for the affilate and pay them 90% of the money thats made, but its worth it in the end if you can convert well and retain those affiates and make enough for your own program along the way.

[jayeff]

Originally posted by Driven
...Do we se sponsor programs dieing off every month? NOPE, we see most of them growing and building more sites, more content and free hosting now available to all affilates. Being a sponsor isn't easy right now as it requires that you do everything under the sun for the affilate and pay them 90% of the money thats made...

You don't see sponsors dieing off every month, but you do see sponsors' programs dieing off every month. And most of the sites you see the long-established sponsors building don't represent growth at all. Their purpose is solely to try to rekindle some interest among affiliates and surfers.

Like a post to which I responded earlier, yours is contradicting itself. If the growth you describe were indeed going on, established sponsors wouldn't need to be doing "everything under the sun for the affiliate". The reality is that when some well-known programs started publishing their top earners recently, many people were shocked at how low the numbers were. Nor let's forget that many of the "bonus" features which have appeared in the last couple of years are ultimately more effective as traffic control measures than as benefits for affiliates.

The only thing I will agree with is that being a sponsor now isn't easy, at least if you are trying to build a program backed by solid sites which don't jerk around either affiliates or surfers. You have to convince surfers you aren't another waste of money and affiliates they can earn more even if the payouts are lower. You have to know you aren't going to get rich quick, which is presumably the main reason most keep going the "traditional" route. Most newcomers will fail, but at least they can dream of their first Lambo in six months...

[studio]

Here is what you are all missing... Look at the really successful programs... Like say atkcash, karups program, I feel it would be safe to say they are the leader in that sector of the market...

They are a Rev. Share Programs... 50/50 These guys damn near invented the affiliate model. They know and understand 50/50 is fair for all... and they understand that their program needs the 50% in order to continue providing the members a quality product.

So if your in this business to make a living... promote the sites that are in it for the long hall...

Sites like:

ATK
Karups
Pineapplepink
teenflood
sapphic erotica

Forget all the pie in the sky payouts... Push your traffic to soulid sites and work consistant and hard... and You will make money....

[bigdog]

Originally posted by studio
Here is what you are all missing... Look at the really successful programs... Like say atkcash, karups program, I feel it would be safe to say they are the leader in that sector of the market...

They are a Rev. Share Programs... 50/50 These guys damn near invented the affiliate model. They know and understand 50/50 is fair for all... and they understand that their program needs the 50% in order to continue providing the members a quality product.

So if your in this business to make a living... promote the sites that are in it for the long hall...

Sites like:

ATK
Karups
Pineapplepink
teenflood
sapphic erotica

Forget all the pie in the sky payouts... Push your traffic to soulid sites and work consistant and hard... and You will make money....

a lot of those sites are nice, but honestly nowadays you can find similar content for free on tgps. There is too much free quality porn out there

[bret]

Originally posted by studio
Here is what you are all missing... Look at the really successful programs... Like say atkcash, karups program, I feel it would be safe to say they are the leader in that sector of the market...

They are a Rev. Share Programs... 50/50 These guys damn near invented the affiliate model. They know and understand 50/50 is fair for all... and they understand that their program needs the 50% in order to continue providing the members a quality product.

bullshit. they chose 50/50 because it sounds good. there is no magic to the pricing and payout scales of paysites.

[bret]

Originally posted by bigdog
a lot of those sites are nice, but honestly nowadays you can find similar content for free on tgps. There is too much free quality porn out there

if you wouldnt buy your own product, dont expect others too either.

[pussyluver]

Originally posted by XSAXS
For a guy from Kansas...that's one amazing (and I believe accurate) post!

BTW...no offense about being from Kansas. I was born there, and now I'm in "misery"...the state to your east.

Not many adult webmasters in MO - St. Louis here.

[BVF]

Originally posted by latinasojourn

the affiliate model is all fluff---the surfer understands now that the 30-50/month monthly membership is a 50% marketing fee.

so he goes with the smaller boutique site that has original content for 19.95/mo.

create original content, and the surfer will signup.

Exactly. So all of you should check my sig and help me push these crackheads to the next level. I give my members what they're looking for and nobody else out there is giving it to them like I am.