AOLGuy

Just had my first no-show model in quite awhile. Was batting 1000 for almost a year with girls that I booked showing up. Granted, I've made it a point to only book firm shoots with models I thought were 100% serious.

I'm also noticing lately more and more girls who email and express interest, send pics, exchange emails, seem into it, then drop the ball. It can be frustrating at any point, especially when you don't know who to take seriously and you've invested time.

For those that shoot - do you think there is any worth in setting up an industry directory of flakes? It could require registration to browse, but it would let you easily post info and comments plus search for any prospects who contact you.

I'm sure a good # of girls flake one time then abandon the idea of modeling entirely, but a fair portion are wishy-washy enough to abuse a few of us before throwing in the towel. LOL

LadyMischief

Generally what I do is send them a bill for studio time, etc. They either show up on time from then on, or they never call back, either case you are one up.

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AOLGuy

Part of the reason the no-show today was unexpected is that I only had her day job phone #, and the last I spoke to her was Wednesday to confirm.

If I had a cell phone contact and hadn't gotten ahold of her this morning, I'd have known for sure it was a flake situation and not even come into the office.

imageman

Its annoying but sadly part of the business here in California.
You also have the so called agents who send out images of models and when you call or write to book them you get no replies. Its a flaky industry which is a surprise as they stand to make $500 to $800 for a few hours work. Seems like easy money.

Our photography site is doing a list of modeling agents and managers who flake or don't reply to phone calls and e-mails. This we hope will warn both talent and photographers not to work with them. We may add flaky models to that list as well. It sure would save us all a lot of wasted time and money ?

I personally talk to a lot of photographers here in CA and we all warn each other of talent that flakes.


.

AOLGuy

For pure function, I'd love a list online with email addresses that I could cross-reference and know if a possible model was full of shit.

A seperate or cross-referenced list by state or area code with a first name and the pics they submitted for consideration would also be great directory for prospects to avoid.

I don't deal with agents, so thankfully that isn't a problem!

NoHassleSteve

Tell them ahead of time that no-show models can get black-listed and end up only getting gigs doing double anal or getting pissed on by men old enough to be their grandfather.

That way, they either show up...
or they'll be prepared to pay the penalty.

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AOLGuy

Since fear is what usually keeps them away in the first place, I doubt that'd work to make motivate. LOL

And since most think they won't bother pursuing any other gigs, that is why they never bother to call and let you know they are backing out.

I deal with a lot of first-timers. Professional industry models seem to flake due to higher paying gigs, hangovers, and sleeping off crank binges. That's a whole seperate issue to combat!

NoHassleSteve

I know... I know. I was just kidding.

A more serious approach would be to deal with their suitcase
pimps. That way, the guy with weed money or new chrome
rims for his Kia hanging in the balance will make sure she shows up.

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fulcrumstudio

You're all welmome to use this domain that I own.

xxxmodelsthatflake.com

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Red Ezra

As a fellow photog, I feel your pain - believe me when i say it is a hundred times worse for me with a lighting full crew and location money flying out the window when some stupid and selfish hooker flakes - compounded into that is the scripts I have to do for adult xxx features - which in most cases means multiple days for the talent - I can't go into it but I have been screwed pretty bad sometimes - I get upset even thinking about it. It costs real money and that's fucked - there has to be an answer - I agree and I welcome any ideas.

I came across one photogs answer to this - it's actually pretty entertaining - I have thought about doing the same thing myself - but fortunately, I have not had that bad of a flake yet for a still shoot. He calls it the shitlist.

Check it out - the guy is Kelly Lind - he does some pretty cool pics too:

http://www.kellylind.com/code/shitlist.html

UnclePecker

AOLGuy

I have to say that his shitlist approach is brilliant.

I'd love to do something similar, but can imagine how crazy one of the first-time amateurs I shoot might go. Of course, I guess I could put on the page that I'd gladly remove their name and whatever anecdote if they wrote an apology for flaking in the first place with a good explanation why. LOL

fl_prn_str

Something like this perhaps?


http://www.industryblacklist.com/

fl_prn_str

Almost forgot-

http://www.ksexradio.com/shows/thewa...flakelist.html

AOLGuy

I checked that site awhile back and remember not finding any matches. I'd almost prefer a browsable listing. And the site's registration process and design seems to hinder photographers contributing much info to it.

What I really want is a blacklist page that shows up in Google searches. I run every model's email, name, and phone through there and normally find some pretty interesting stuff. LOL

Neal

Like the idea of the directory...

We have problems in the UK both from independant and agency models...

Not sure what the answer is - bring back hanging..????

Maybe it's just one of those things that is irritating but we just have to deal with....

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AOLGuy

I can't speak for every photographer, but the emotional response ranges from rejection to annoyance to anger.

I think when the flake happens I'd like to be able to feel vindicated with some sort of retribution for them wasting my time.

If there were a basic page to post info on, I think it'd only be fair that the negative posting would only be taken down with a personal email apology and explanation.

It would be the classy thing for a flakey model to do.

fl_prn_str

Personally I give them 2 chances then....since time is money I charge them a $30 deposit. If they appear for the shoot it is returned. Otherwise it is forfeited as a flake fee.

On the other hand I hear from a fair share of models that there are "flakey" photographers as well....in this industry today anyone with a digital camera can proclaim that they are a top "pro" photographer.

So I guess you have to take the good with the bad.........

Then again for all of the flakes in general......karma is a bitch.

PhotoGreggXXX

The whole 'flake' thing and listing girls, agents, producers is dangerous and does nobody any good.

I've had some of my super talent, always show up early, etc, flake on another producer because they got bad vibes from them.

I've had another producers, 'best talent ever' flake on me once or twice, then worked like troopers for tons of scenes.

Everyone has a bad day, off day, even me...rarely though

If you're going to make a list, make an 'at-a-girl' list, with positive responses about talent that:
-show up on time
-show up ready to go with a sweet attitude
-know how to perform like they like it
-can scream, talk dirty and fuck the guy silly

That's a list that seems more productive to me. All the negative bullshit doesn't do anyone any good.

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AOLGuy

We're a secretive industry Gregg--if a girl does particularly well, we keep that secret all to ourselves!

And if someone is a professional and has a bad day, that's far different than someone who outright flakes on work. If you get a bad vibe, make up an excuse and just cancel via email! A professional model should be able to do that at least.

I think there are a few hundred wannabe's at any given time though wasting all of our time here in California though...

Red Ezra

I have thought about this alot actually - word of mouth is the best way to get back at someone - you post something and you become the asshole - seems like a waste of time to try and break someone's back because they are a worthless piece of shit one day or a fucking lamer loser fag mother fucking son of a bithes assholes....but - you know what I'm trying say.

AOLGuy

It might be a sadistic streak, but I'd get an odd satisfaction out of a flake wannabe model one day doing a Google for her name or email and finding some posting that she set up a paid porn shoot but flaked...

...I think I'd get the apology I wanted pretty fast to take it down.


As for word of mouth, it makes sense if you work with professional models and current girls in the porn biz. I deal with far less attitude from much more pleasant first-time amateurs. Sigh, but the flake factor can be brutal.

AOLGuy

...to follow up that thought.

Yes, I'm aware what libel and slander are, but if it's true and I simply used the emails or IMs then it wouldn't apply.

More questionable is whether or not it would constitute violation of privacy or harassment, but if it were simple and not graphic or derogatory I don't think either would hold.

Would a boyfriend or father beat the living crap out of me for posting such a thing? I'd give it decent odds of happening. LOL