What's the most joins you've seen or heard of a "teen" site doing on day # 1 ? ? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Ross · 10-10-2004, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EscortBiz
I now believe that most people on GFY make 200 bucks a week

I've always believed at least 80% of the members don't make much more than this.

chowda · 10-10-2004, 04:32 PM

50 joins.
lol

fris · 10-10-2004, 04:34 PM

i did 28 joins in 1 day off a gallery. that was my best.

whee · 10-10-2004, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by venus
thats why I would never use ccbill for anything, you cannot trust them.
They have no business what so ever telling anyone about any of their customers or anything about any of their customers.

How can you trust netbilling then... They could screw you over too, the same unknown factors.
Anyhow, netbilling seems quite ok, I actually still look for a decient cc provider for some projects of ours.
Netbilling Im not sure about.... :-) ?

xNetworx · 10-10-2004, 04:37 PM

5k joins in one day? That would have to be the world record if it was true.

Mutt · 10-10-2004, 04:39 PM

all you guys doubting Venus stick to doing what you do best - sig whoring and PlayStation.

Venus knows of what she speaks - she is one of the true pioneers, one of the original authentic amateur cam girls.

beemk · 10-10-2004, 04:40 PM

5000 isnt impossible with the right advertising. if the site is good you should be able to get almost 100 alone on the first day of the hun. if you think 70 is the highest number a site can get in 1 day you should go back to flipping burgers.

whee · 10-10-2004, 04:44 PM

Quote:

.... go back to flipping burgers.

Chokie... Candyflip... That's you?

Mutt · 10-10-2004, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by whee
How can you trust netbilling then... They could screw you over too, the same unknown factors.

idiot. she's with Netbilling because Netbilling isn't an IPSP(third party processor) - she's using her own merchant account, her money is hers, Netbilling can't get at it. A third party processor could easily skim if they wanted to.

slapass · 10-10-2004, 04:49 PM

5000 is imposible. If you bought every traffic source for that day and it worked out super but no has been that focused or we would have noticed don't you think?

100 from the hun and yuo just need 50 more sources like that.... oh yeah there are not fifty sources like that. Huge first day pops happen because of pre selling hype through free site news groups etc. We as marketers hear about who is hot. Anyone not know Teen kelly?

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 10-10-2004, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hunter_ST
Send a fraction of the 5,000 joins a day to my sites

This biz is full of smoke screen's dude...

Just don't let the stars in your eyes blind you. Only 2% of adult webmasters are overwelmingly succesful. Most everyone plays off like they got mad bling.

whee · 10-10-2004, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mutt
idiot. she's with Netbilling because Netbilling isn't an IPSP(third party processor) - she's using her own merchant account, her money is hers, Netbilling can't get at it. A third party processor could easily skim if they wanted to.

Goddamn fucktwat, no idiotism here. I wanted her answer not yours. I had a reason asking.

EscortBiz · 10-10-2004, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by slapass
5000 is imposible. If you bought every traffic source for that day and it worked out super but no has been that focused or we would have noticed don't you think?

100 from the hun and yuo just need 50 more sources like that.... oh yeah there are not fifty sources like that. Huge first day pops happen because of pre selling hype through free site news groups etc. We as marketers hear about who is hot. Anyone not know Teen kelly?

you have allot of learning to do ALLOT

Everyone here always thinks TGP's and SPAM and Exit brokers

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 10-10-2004, 05:02 PM

No one does 5k signups per day...

Who is on crack around here?

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 10-10-2004, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Silent Bob Jedi
I believe what you are saying is true.. This biz can make anyone a lot more then most could believe if you and all the people you work with are motivated, smart about how you are marketing your product and never put limits on what you think is possible.

I've seen a ugly fat girl make more then a lot of barely 18 hot chicks cause she knew how to get a fan base when she was pretty and not fat

Thats ridiculous.
Complete fucken morons get rich in this business. TOTAL fucking retards make it and have made it and they will continue to make it.

They are called smart after stealing from 3/4's of you hard working fuckers... Once the reality is spun its called "Smart" marketing.
And you folks love them for it, and willingly suck the cum seeping from there ass for more everyday.

whee · 10-10-2004, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ
Thats ridiculous.
Complete fucken morons get rich in this business. TOTAL fucking retards make it and have made it and they will continue to make it.

They are called smart after stealing from 3/4's of you hard working fuckers...
And you love them for it, and willingly suck the cum seeping from there ass for more.

LOL

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 10-10-2004, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by whee
LOL

Sad thing is...

Its true.

slapass · 10-10-2004, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EscortBiz
you have allot of learning to do ALLOT

Everyone here always thinks TGP's and SPAM and Exit brokers

Well you and I are on opposite ends of the business but I have seen yuor numbers( along time ago you posted them) and mine and I do not believe a single girl site is doing 5k for a day. The top single girl sites are doing that a month and that is after they have ramped up with a program blazing.

Talk to your ccBill rep and see if you are not his biggest client.

My offer stands give me a lunch date and I will fly to NY and pay for the restaurant of your choice just to chat.

Original Question: I do know of a single girl site that did about 200/day for a few days when she kicked off. It was told to me as a big deal.

bigdog · 10-10-2004, 05:45 PM

i say escortbiz is doing 1k signups a day

EscortBiz · 10-10-2004, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by slapass
Well you and I are on opposite ends of the business but I have seen yuor numbers( along time ago you posted them) and mine and I do not believe a single girl site is doing 5k for a day. The top single girl sites are doing that a month and that is after they have ramped up with a program blazing.

Talk to your ccBill rep and see if you are not his biggest client.

My offer stands give me a lunch date and I will fly to NY and pay for the restaurant of your choice just to chat.

Original Question: I do know of a single girl site that did about 200/day for a few days when she kicked off. It was told to me as a big deal.

well if its a new site and the owner is new guy on the block he wont do shit for a while

but im talking say someone who adding a new girl site and he has a huge track record with members the first day of its release it will do awesome, my members and many ther members of exclusive sites trusts us and join new sites (not all but many)

I am hungry now off to eat

SlutFinder · 10-10-2004, 05:54 PM

are you asking about 'a' 24 hour period OR the first '24' hour period of a new site..?

andrej_NDC · 10-10-2004, 06:15 PM

Its possible, for sure. Many people forget that there are also other possibilities to get traffic than to buy spots and adwords.

Dont think about offline marketing?

slapass · 10-10-2004, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EscortBiz
well if its a new site and the owner is new guy on the block he wont do shit for a while

but im talking say someone who adding a new girl site and he has a huge track record with members the first day of its release it will do awesome, my members and many ther members of exclusive sites trusts us and join new sites (not all but many)

I am hungry now off to eat

ok so cross marketing in a chain of sites. 5k still seems huge but I can bet teensforcash did something like that in the first few days.

pornguy · 10-10-2004, 06:38 PM

I think that it can be done, but I dont think that the traffic can be sustained,

I think that after a short whille it would drop off.

Melvin the Dude · 10-10-2004, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlutFinder
are you asking about 'a' 24 hour period OR the first '24' hour period of a new site..?

Well I've said it in 2 or 3 separate posts already and nobody seems to notice:

THE FIRST 24 HOURS!!!!

A NEW GIRL, not "a" 24 hour period of a girl that's been up for a year or two!

beemk · 10-10-2004, 09:05 PM

look at nasty dollars sites for example. i have a tgp i normally list hosted galleries on. if you list a good site you will get 1 or 2 signups. if ND releases a new site it gets 5 signups easy the first day with amazing ratios. of course later down the road it wont do that many signups in a day as it did the first day. but i could see them doing over 5k their first day easily.

Living For Today · 10-10-2004, 09:09 PM

5000 joins in the first 24 hours? if you say you have proof then i guess i believe you coz you are very reputable but geeez that is a hell of a lot of joins for one day.

Theo · 10-10-2004, 09:22 PM

5000 joins/day don't make the majority of the largest sponsors in the industry. Actually only very few can do that and not steadily. Maybe it was possible in 97, but not anymore.

Darkystar · 10-10-2004, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
5000 joins/day don't make the majority of the largest sponsors in the industry. Actually only very few can do that and not steadily. Maybe it was possible in 97, but not anymore.

yeah what i'm saying...some of the LARGEST sponsors everybody knows here who have the most of the traffic are barely making that many signups a day

as i said i highly doubt about that number (5k in 24 for a single site), but theoretically it's probably possible for just 1 day then it drops drastically, but constantly that's not possible for sure

Donny · 10-10-2004, 10:44 PM

There are many morons showing their ignorance in this thread. That's all I'm going to say.

Inde · 10-10-2004, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlienQ
Thats ridiculous.
Complete fucken morons get rich in this business. TOTAL fucking retards make it and have made it and they will continue to make it.

They are called smart after stealing from 3/4's of you hard working fuckers... Once the reality is spun its called "Smart" marketing.
And you folks love them for it, and willingly suck the cum seeping from there ass for more everyday.

you're killing me.....

Theo · 10-10-2004, 10:48 PM

I missed escortbiz example, that's possible especially if the owner gives a discount to existing members.

Theo · 10-10-2004, 10:54 PM

There's an internet marketing guy named John Reese that made over 500,000 in a single day when he released his latest marketing course. He was selling it for $997 (some dvd traffic courses) and used viral-marketing to achive it. All items were sold to webmasters from which a large number had already bought his previous courses.

PerfectionGirls · 10-10-2004, 11:31 PM

I have a few affiliates that can push 60-100 joins a day alone.

Depending on the traffic those numbers are not hard to hit at all.

I rocking site does about 80-110 a day... teen kelly use to push those and may still for all I know. Tawnee could push 130-150 a day back in her day and still does well. Jordan is about the 60-80 mark also.

However, there are the majority (80%) that do 5-20 a day at most and even some of the biggest teen solo site programs have those in their line up... dont let them foul you.

If you can get a solo site doing a steady 50 joins a day thats great. If you can get 5-7 solo sites in you revshare program that are doing that you are rocking.

We have a few sites right now rolling at about 80 a day and one doing far more then that. However, our mega site perfectiongirls out sells them all.

Solo sites are like singles on a record... you wont get rich with just one and you never know what the hit might be.

As for the first 24 hours.. the best day I had with a new site was 221 joins.

PerfectionGirls · 10-10-2004, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Silent Bob Jedi
I've heard a number around 700 for a NN site first day but won't say who but it came from a reliable ccbill co worker

Your number is right Bob. I know the site also. It was from an existing site and when the girl came of age she had a HUGE transfer of members to the new site. She also had a large member base in her old site.

That story is factual.

Morgan · 10-10-2004, 11:45 PM

well... i see some "70" figures...

haha.. i hope that's a "Per" affililiate assumption.

i used to do on average, 65 TRIAL s/u's per DAY with exploitedteens.com back in the day. Best part about it was that ALL the traffic was coming from 2 TINY ADS.

I have a teen site coming out in a couple weeks that is going to FUCKING KILL IT!!!

JulianSosa · 10-10-2004, 11:47 PM

15k plus. She was a teen when its was filmed

Xster · 10-10-2004, 11:49 PM

Alot of bigger players in this game do 30-70 PPS a day by themselves and just with a few high traffic TGPS. I have seen opt-in mailing lists crank in several hundred of PPS a day. But 5k sign ups can only be done within a program itself including all the webmasters promoting it (like ARS a year ago). Even to wonder if ONE PERSON can bring in 5k PPS a day (150,000 a month) isnt worth even wasting mental energy over it. So few people are doing that ALONE it doesnt matter. If you want to dream "what it would be like", keep dreaming it wont ever happen in this day in age unless you control a LARGE percentage of the industries/niches traffic.

JulianSosa · 10-10-2004, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ganjasaurus
well... i see some "70" figures...

haha.. i hope that's a "Per" affililiate assumption.

i used to do on average, 65 TRIAL s/u's per DAY with exploitedteens.com back in the day. Best part about it was that ALL the traffic was coming from 2 TINY ADS.

I have a teen site coming out in a couple weeks that is going to FUCKING KILL IT!!!

This is not back in the day. If you are running an affiliate program I am sure you see the numbers now days.
If you had an affiliate doing 10 joins a day I am sure you would be more than happy..

Xster · 10-10-2004, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darkystar
hm i highly doubt...I've seen stats of some of the largest programs. And not a single site of these programs came even close to that number of joins in 24 hour period.
VERY few really large programs are doing 5k joins/day

Everyone just read this persons post and drop this thread, he answered the question perfectly.

venus · 10-11-2004, 12:07 AM

You all are to focused on numbers, the only numbers that actually count is what you personally end up with to spend.

lets say, just for example, some big site gets 1000 joins a day, this is the only thing people focus on.

now lets look at how these numbers usually come out
signup break down:
*what % is trials and what is the cost of the trials
*what % of the trials cancel before rebill
*how much of that signup does the webmaster keep vs what he gives affiliate
*advertising costs involved?
*% to model or model fee's
*normal website bills.

So what I am saying, a person could appear to make a killing but after giving an affiliate 50-60% of each signup he/she only has 40-50% left to pay the rest of the bills and if its a site where the model gets a % of the profit then the webmaster makes even less and if most are trials at like 3-5$ , that does not go very far after its cut up. So saying someone gets 1000 signups does not mean much without knowing the webmasters actual profit, he damn well could be living in a 100$ a month apartment even tho you think he is making bank. Numbers are an illusion to make newbies think your the shit so they can send you traffic or worship the turd you drop in the toilet.

dont let big numbers fool you, there is allot of information you do not have - I do not know about you, but what counts to me is what I can put in my personal checking account and spend on anything I like.

TheDoc · 10-11-2004, 12:07 AM

Damn.. 5k join in one day, for one site is a lot.. Hell for the whole program it's still a shit load, even for the biggest programs. But then again, it's only for one day, good built up hype, a bonus day, lots of factors could make a site hit those numbers.

I think it would be hard with the current market to hit 5k joins in one day to one site, no mater what niche the site is.

These days.. If you aren't one of the major companies, 50-100 joins the first day is pretty good numbers for a new site. Some big companies have released sites that didn't get 50 joins the first day or the first week.

10-10-2004, 04:32 PM	#52
chowda Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Gooch city Posts: 9,527	50 joins. lol __________________ Someone finds you... 2007 PS: Nationalnet is the best host I've ever had. And i tried alot of them.

10-10-2004, 04:34 PM	#53
fris Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 55,372	i did 28 joins in 1 day off a gallery. that was my best. __________________ Since 1999: 69 Adult Industry awards for Best Hosting Company and professional excellence. WP Stuff

10-10-2004, 04:40 PM	#57
beemk CLICK HERE Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 20,829	5000 isnt impossible with the right advertising. if the site is good you should be able to get almost 100 alone on the first day of the hun. if you think 70 is the highest number a site can get in 1 day you should go back to flipping burgers. __________________ I host with Vacares

10-10-2004, 05:02 PM	#64
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	No one does 5k signups per day... Who is on crack around here? __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

10-10-2004, 05:54 PM	#71
SlutFinder Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 2,273	are you asking about 'a' 24 hour period OR the first '24' hour period of a new site..? __________________ Legit mailing and optin databases - Adult,Casino&Pharmacy. ICQ: 272-745-001 - EMail:[email protected] Adult payments allowed! on your site or between webmasters! www.YowCow.com

10-10-2004, 04:37 PM	#55
xNetworx So Fucking What Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Whore Island Posts: 14,445	5k joins in one day? That would have to be the world record if it was true.

10-10-2004, 04:39 PM	#56
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	all you guys doubting Venus stick to doing what you do best - sig whoring and PlayStation. Venus knows of what she speaks - she is one of the true pioneers, one of the original authentic amateur cam girls.

10-10-2004, 04:49 PM	#60
slapass Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 14,625	5000 is imposible. If you bought every traffic source for that day and it worked out super but no has been that focused or we would have noticed don't you think? 100 from the hun and yuo just need 50 more sources like that.... oh yeah there are not fifty sources like that. Huge first day pops happen because of pre selling hype through free site news groups etc. We as marketers hear about who is hot. Anyone not know Teen kelly?

10-10-2004, 05:45 PM	#69
bigdog Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 6,964	i say escortbiz is doing 1k signups a day

10-10-2004, 06:15 PM	#72
andrej_NDC Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 7,760	Its possible, for sure. Many people forget that there are also other possibilities to get traffic than to buy spots and adwords. Dont think about offline marketing?

10-10-2004, 06:38 PM	#74
pornguy Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Homeless Posts: 62,911	I think that it can be done, but I dont think that the traffic can be sustained, I think that after a short whille it would drop off. __________________ PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online! TChicks.com \| Angeles Cid \| Mariana Cordoba \| MAILERS WELCOME!

10-10-2004, 09:05 PM	#76
beemk CLICK HERE Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 20,829	look at nasty dollars sites for example. i have a tgp i normally list hosted galleries on. if you list a good site you will get 1 or 2 signups. if ND releases a new site it gets 5 signups easy the first day with amazing ratios. of course later down the road it wont do that many signups in a day as it did the first day. but i could see them doing over 5k their first day easily. __________________ I host with Vacares

10-10-2004, 09:09 PM	#77
Living For Today Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,970	5000 joins in the first 24 hours? if you say you have proof then i guess i believe you coz you are very reputable but geeez that is a hell of a lot of joins for one day.

10-10-2004, 09:22 PM	#78
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	5000 joins/day don't make the majority of the largest sponsors in the industry. Actually only very few can do that and not steadily. Maybe it was possible in 97, but not anymore.

10-10-2004, 10:44 PM	#80
Donny As you wish... Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 13,754	There are many morons showing their ignorance in this thread. That's all I'm going to say.

10-10-2004, 10:48 PM	#82
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	I missed escortbiz example, that's possible especially if the owner gives a discount to existing members.

10-10-2004, 10:54 PM	#83
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	There's an internet marketing guy named John Reese that made over 500,000 in a single day when he released his latest marketing course. He was selling it for $997 (some dvd traffic courses) and used viral-marketing to achive it. All items were sold to webmasters from which a large number had already bought his previous courses.

10-10-2004, 11:31 PM	#84
PerfectionGirls Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: MI Posts: 4,484	I have a few affiliates that can push 60-100 joins a day alone. Depending on the traffic those numbers are not hard to hit at all. I rocking site does about 80-110 a day... teen kelly use to push those and may still for all I know. Tawnee could push 130-150 a day back in her day and still does well. Jordan is about the 60-80 mark also. However, there are the majority (80%) that do 5-20 a day at most and even some of the biggest teen solo site programs have those in their line up... dont let them foul you. If you can get a solo site doing a steady 50 joins a day thats great. If you can get 5-7 solo sites in you revshare program that are doing that you are rocking. We have a few sites right now rolling at about 80 a day and one doing far more then that. However, our mega site perfectiongirls out sells them all. Solo sites are like singles on a record... you wont get rich with just one and you never know what the hit might be. As for the first 24 hours.. the best day I had with a new site was 221 joins. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60. Last edited by PerfectionGirls; 10-10-2004 at 11:34 PM..

10-10-2004, 11:45 PM	#86
Morgan Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: Corona Del Mar, CA Posts: 10,520	well... i see some "70" figures... haha.. i hope that's a "Per" affililiate assumption. i used to do on average, 65 TRIAL s/u's per DAY with exploitedteens.com back in the day. Best part about it was that ALL the traffic was coming from 2 TINY ADS. I have a teen site coming out in a couple weeks that is going to FUCKING KILL IT!!! __________________ PornstarPlatinum.com \| TransErotica.com

10-10-2004, 11:47 PM	#87
JulianSosa Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 3,042	15k plus. She was a teen when its was filmed

10-10-2004, 11:49 PM	#88
Xster Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 577	Alot of bigger players in this game do 30-70 PPS a day by themselves and just with a few high traffic TGPS. I have seen opt-in mailing lists crank in several hundred of PPS a day. But 5k sign ups can only be done within a program itself including all the webmasters promoting it (like ARS a year ago). Even to wonder if ONE PERSON can bring in 5k PPS a day (150,000 a month) isnt worth even wasting mental energy over it. So few people are doing that ALONE it doesnt matter. If you want to dream "what it would be like", keep dreaming it wont ever happen in this day in age unless you control a LARGE percentage of the industries/niches traffic.

10-11-2004, 12:07 AM	#91
venus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Phoenix, Az Posts: 3,112	You all are to focused on numbers, the only numbers that actually count is what you personally end up with to spend. lets say, just for example, some big site gets 1000 joins a day, this is the only thing people focus on. now lets look at how these numbers usually come out signup break down: what % is trials and what is the cost of the trials what % of the trials cancel before rebill how much of that signup does the webmaster keep vs what he gives affiliate advertising costs involved? % to model or model fee's normal website bills. So what I am saying, a person could appear to make a killing but after giving an affiliate 50-60% of each signup he/she only has 40-50% left to pay the rest of the bills and if its a site where the model gets a % of the profit then the webmaster makes even less and if most are trials at like 3-5$ , that does not go very far after its cut up. So saying someone gets 1000 signups does not mean much without knowing the webmasters actual profit, he damn well could be living in a 100$ a month apartment even tho you think he is making bank. Numbers are an illusion to make newbies think your the shit so they can send you traffic or worship the turd you drop in the toilet. dont let big numbers fool you, there is allot of information you do not have - I do not know about you, but what counts to me is what I can put in my personal checking account and spend on anything I like. __________________ Muscle/Fitness Adult Affiliate Program Since 1997 www.venuscash.com

10-11-2004, 12:07 AM	#92
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	Damn.. 5k join in one day, for one site is a lot.. Hell for the whole program it's still a shit load, even for the biggest programs. But then again, it's only for one day, good built up hype, a bonus day, lots of factors could make a site hit those numbers. I think it would be hard with the current market to hit 5k joins in one day to one site, no mater what niche the site is. These days.. If you aren't one of the major companies, 50-100 joins the first day is pretty good numbers for a new site. Some big companies have released sites that didn't get 50 joins the first day or the first week. __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation