Epoch

If you are planning on obtaining your own merchant account for adult 5967
processing then there are a few things that you should consider prior to
doing so.

If you are currently processing with a HRIPSP this processing could
be jepordized based upon the performance of your own merchant account.

If your account is out of compliance with the Visa / MC rules, you could be placed
on the TMF (terminated merchant file) you will then lose your ability to process with any HRIPSP.

How do you get placed on the TMF?

Most people will probably have this occur due to exceeding the Mastercard
chargeback thresholds.

THe Mastercard ratio is 1% with a minimum of 15 (fifteen) chargebacks!

If you exceed this ratio you will be fined extensively and will probably be placed on
the TMF file. Once on the TMF you will have to stop processing in your merchant account AND with your HRIPSP
and will be no longer able to accept credit card transactions for VISA and MC.

If you violate the VISA thresholds of 1% and 100 cbks you will also be placed
on the list. Due to the larger number of chargebacks required in the VISA program
most smaller programs will never reach this threshold number. Because the number of
chargebacks required for the MC program is only 15 almost every program will qualify.

When you process with a HRIPSP your ratios for Mastercard are not considered,
it is only the combined ratio of the HRIPSP that is reported to Mastercard (Unlike VISA).

The fine for a MC violation starts at $25,000 per month and escalates to $100,000 per month in subsequent months. Plus there
is an additional fine for each chargeback and sometimes for each credit.

Most people who are obtaining their own merchant account have no idea
about this rule and the stiff financial penalties associated with a Mastercard violation not to mention
the potential for losing your entire processing ability.

There are reasons why companies process with HRIPSPs and avoid their own merchant account.

Don't be falsey led into beleiving that individual merchant accounts are the wave of the future, they are not; they are the failure of the past!

Make sure you understand what you are signing when you are applying for your own merchant account!

READ, very carefully any such agreement, because once you go down that road, there may be no turning back.

Clay
EPOCH

baddog

I do chuckle when I hear people suggest getting their own merchant accounts right out the gate. If this was so easy, wouldn't everyone have one?

WiredGuy

I had no idea about this, thanks for the clarification.
WG

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Daymare

good info, but could also be viewed as propaganda

BigWebRev

Well said

Theo

thanks for scaring the adult webmasters

scoreman

WG take a look at what iBill is doing and you will see what this is all about.

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Shap

Hey Clay what's the bounty you guys have on Ibill's head? If you made it public then you could get others posting this stuff on your behalf. Would avoid you guys looking so desperate to put them out of business.


Oh and before you tell me to Go Fuck Myself the way Chris Mallcik did last week. Let me tell you that I'm one of your clients. I was forced into using Paycom (jettis sale and now ibill problems). I'm trying to get used to the idea. The problem is every few days you guys make a post that is really not needed. All these posts geared towards "educating" people, all happen right after ibill mentions what their solution is and it is the Paycom threat to anyone thinking of going along with the ibill solution. Why not give it a rest. Ibill is in enough shit as it is. The industry would be better served if you guys concentrated on your own business rather than worrying about ibill.

JFK

the guy is here to do business.......and You ?

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speakthetruth

STFU you tool

Epoch

Shap,

I never mentioned IBill.

I'm just trying to make sure that my clients don't unknowingly make a bad decision and jepordize their business based upon bad information.

Clay
EPOCH

scoreman

Well they certainly are consistent. They sorta remind me of the Bush team on how they stress "you know where we stand".

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AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

Merchant account is easy to get.

Putting it on the chopping is block hard.

I dunno, its tough call really. Depends on the business model.

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Shap

This was posted above and i was editing my post while you guys were replying.


Oh and before you tell me to Go Fuck Myself the way Chris Mallcik did last week. Let me tell you that I'm one of your clients. I was forced into using Paycom (jettis sale and now ibill problems). I'm trying to get used to the idea. The problem is every few days you guys make a post that is really not needed. All these posts geared towards "educating" people, all happen right after ibill mentions what their solution is and it is the Paycom threat to anyone thinking of going along with the ibill solution. Why not give it a rest. Ibill is in enough shit as it is. The industry would be better served if you guys concentrated on your own business rather than worrying about ibill.

Shap

Clay it just so happens this post comes right after ibill sends out their new contracts to people.

The same way the last paycom post came right after ibill started processing in the pac rim.

The posts are so transparent the least you guys could do is not play us for fools and say this isn't about ibill.

Shap

btw who is speakthetruth? It's easy to be mr tough guy behind an anonymous name. I'd like to see who that fool is.

Epoch

Shap,

I am focusing on my business.

Protecting my clients is my business.

Someone telling my clients they have to get their own merchant account is my business.

Educating my clients against potential disaster is protecting my business and the business of my clients.

Would you not agree.

Clay
EPOCH

Shoplifter

Theo

"If you violate the VISA thresholds of 1% and 100 cbks you will also be placed on the list."


Assume you have 1% CB rate and you reach 100 cbs how many transactions you have processed with VISA in a month? 10,000, that's 330 sales/day only with VISA.

Assume you have 1% CB rate and you reach 15 cbs how many transactions you have processed with MC in a month? 1500, that's 50 sales/day only with VISA.

I can see the majority of paysite owners (almost all with exceptions) doing way less than this # of sales. Right or wrong?

baddog

never mind

Shap

Clay, I understand you can stand by that. The truth is this is aimed directly at ibill and this post will definitely harm ibill. Don't you think it's also important that your clients be paid the money they are owed? And in order to get paid ibill is going to have to be given a chance to comeback from this setback. You claim to be helping your clients but in the end you are hurting them as much if not more. If they wanted advice you could send it by email and to paycom clients only. Instead this is a post made for the public and to many that don't even use paycom.

Epoch

What if you had 15 cbks and 100 sales? Your cbk ratio is 15%

15 cbks and 1000 sales = 1.5%

if you have 15 cbks you must have at least 1500 sales to be compliant


Clay
EPOCH

MickeyG

Rich

Well that's an unbiased post if I've ever seen one.

vicki

if site owners realized how much money they could KEEP in their pockets by having a merc acct in good standing ... smart ones would stand back and take a good hard look at their business model and WORK their butts off to keep cb's down .. they'd easily double profits

Epoch

Shap,

How is getting a merchant account setup for my client going to help them collect for past processing?

If my client gets in trouble with their own merchant account ie they exceed the MC or VISA cbk ratio then they will no longer be able to process with us or any other HRIPSP.

Sorry if I provided a little free information for non-clients please don't hold it against me.

Also has anyone checked to see who is a party to these merchant agreements? from what I hear it is only The Bank and a Company in Texas.

Where is the other company????????

Anyone?

Clay
EPOCH

stocktrader23

That's when you offer $1 per month memberships, $20 per year memberships, or another product. It would also be a good time to look into fixing your stupid chargeback ratios.

Your "protecting your customers" includes charging what 10 or 15% and holding reserves? How long do you guys hold reserves for because the only time I see people mention it is when they say they don't seem to ever get the reserves you hold.

Yes every good business should start out with 20 to 25% or more of their income being taken right off the top and the inability to move their customer list to a new processor to continue charges in case something happened.

Let's hear some straightshooting on this subject no?

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stocktrader23

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stocktrader23

By the way, some of them do. Ifriends works in cams, one of the most chargeback laden parts of the adult internet. However they manage to keep their own merchant account in good standing.

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JakeR

once you figure out what true interchange is for adult, you would never think about going 3rd party again.

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stocktrader23

What's funny is IPSP's take a huge chunk of millions of dollars in processed transactions every month yet they seem to have the shittiest customer service of all.

You would think something regarded as the "backbone of the industry" would act as such. Meh

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Tipsy

Unless it's changed recently, considering the billing practices of ifriends that's always amazed me. As you say though they are managing it.

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Aly-Python

It may be transparent to you, Shap, but it would be far more odd (and rather disappointing) to NOT see them jump in and say something right now.

Thanks for the info, Clay.

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Chris Mallick

Sorry Shap, et al? but I have to say this: Everybody needs to wake the fuck up!


IBill did not ?suffer a setback.?
They lost their Merchant Account.
They do not have another HRIPSP account and are no longer an HRIPSP.
This is not a ?setback? - this is a company that is OUT of an important line of their business, or so they stated in various public and court documents.

How can it be that iBill can ?Co sponsor? an account for webmasters and not have their own at Merrick?

What happened to their back up, contingency, doomsday plan?

How can it be that they sued their last bank and filed for an emergency Injunction 3 weeks ago stating they would be OUT OF BUSINESS without FDC, in a few days - and now ?We are porn again?? ?Get your own account? PLEASE!

There is no Visa billing or rebilling today; that is at least 50% of sales for most programs.

What is happening to the recurring Visa cardholder databases? Are these members lost forever?

How are programs that paid $35+ for a join going to recover costs if they can?t get a recurring billing?

I am stating public facts here. It is not propaganda; it is real news that adversely affects all of us and it needs to be discussed and thought about without some bullshit accusing us of marketing.

Maybe you are drinking the iBill Kool-Aid and refuse to believe what they have written in court and public documents and in fact on this very board. They are DONE in third party and they are asking webmasters to get a merchant account on a document that does not have their name on it. They are not releasing databases even when they say they can?t bill the Visa cards. WTF?

So you can stick your head in the sand all you want. You can sign an agreement that you have not read and may not understand the consequences of entering such an agreement. But when you do, you affect all of us. So at least allow for the discussion and an exchange of facts instead of hoping everything will be OK. It won?t unless people take the time to stay informed and to make choices based upon ALL of the facts.

This is an INDUSTRY. We are all CONNECTED. What happens to you, me, or them is IMPORTANT to all of us as a community. And it will be discussed, like it or not.

Lastly I will point out that I had hopes for iBill when they were in court. They lost, too bad for all of us. But now that they are out of our space, as an HRIPSP, I have to be concerned about OUR business. This is reality for us, and for you too, imho.

No go ahead, I know you want to lay into me. I may or may not reply.


C

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Theo

Sales don't fall from the sky, same goes for CBs. I doubt any 3rd party processor would keep a client that brings 15 CBs when doing 100 transactions. (needless to say you won't manage to get a merc. account with such low volume) Would you keep such client that brings 15% cbs? Let's not forget that registered IPSP provide VISA full info regarding each paysite, their sales and chargeback; so paysites are not really under the umbrella of a 3rd party processor like in the past. Getting a hripsp in states is like mission impossible. Webmaster's best choice is to look at Europe which is easier and the rates are different as well.

If you exceed the CB rate it means you are doing something wrong and you are doing it big time. I'll agree with you when someone looks to get a merchant account (especially a high risk) he should make sure to educate himself. It's not that simple, but it's not the impossible thing processors want to make it look. You know what's funny? I never saw anyone ever saying how the fines of visa and mastercard are applied on what scale and timeframe, but I've seen several times people saying if you exceed VISA's 1% cb rate (regardless the number of chargebacks) you are automatically put to TMF and you are fucked for life which is not true. Webmasters are not educated cause nobody bothered to give him the whole picture. The flow of info is always towards a specific direction. I can't debate you on adult processing, that's your field, but I can tell you as a non-biased webmaster what I see. I have said in the past I admire epoch for what has achived, but also I have my worries for where adult processing is going....

thanks

Rich

That's an extremely good question. Does anyone know which large PPS programs were using ibill as their primary?

imageman

I think Epoch and CCbill do a great job in a difficult industry but there is a plus side to having your own merchant account the obvious one is that the fees are far lower . But the most important one to me is you as the merchant have the right to dispute potential charge backs and you as the merchant control refunds. Admittedly there is also a lot of work involved in running your own account but with greater control over CB's a webmaster willing to run his company in a professional manner could have better results with their own account ?




.

tony286

Oh stop kissing his ass , its all so transparent all these we are just giving info . It sucks and how people think its ok . How would you like if your business was going to rough times and people under the mask of we are educating people kept taking shots at you . This behavior tells you alot about the ethics of a company. When Epoch had a delay in paying out people , you didnt see iBill or ccbill doing public service messages here.

tony286

Who asked you for your opinion , your motivation is clear so please stop trying to act like the patron saint of processing. You dont see ccbill behaving this way on this board.

stocktrader23

I wouldn't worry about the big programs being able to swing it. What would worry me are the small / midsize programs.

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Chris Mallick

No, iBill slammed our balls in a desk drawer; they did nothing to educate or inform. The big difference is we did not get out of this space, ever.

C

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stocktrader23

Are you still stuck on that "Ibill can't be hurt" mentality?

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"I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

scoreman

Technically this is true but you make it sound charitable when in fact your "hopes" were all so obviously not. C'mon why not just admit that iBill's turn of events was something that Paycom relishes and will at every possible opportunity capitalize on?

What you are doing is overall good for your business, I will admit that. What bothers me and I think others is that you always try to make it out like your really supportive of iBill and really truly hoping for the best for them. Riiight. That makes you look like a poser, you should stop that bullshit and just tell it like you really feel. You did that in your last post finally except for this last fake part.

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icedemon

You forgot to mention something Clay. It's only if these chargebacks over the 1% happen for a couple of months. If you go over the 1% / 15 Visa chargebacks for just one month, there are no fines and you will not be placed on a TMF. It's only after a couple of months when it's continuously over the 1%.

Epoch

Tony,

We are not talking about missing payments. We are talking about a company who has no other alternative but to insist that all of their clients get their own merchant account via an agreement that does not include them.

Has anyone read the agreement? Who are the parties to the agreement?
The Bank ...You the Merchant... And A Company in Texas.

Does this not concern anyone? The entity you are holding on to is not even a party to the agreement you are signing.

Our clients need to be informed, as they will be, before they are lead over the edge of the cliff.

Clay
EPOCH

Aly-Python

If you think I kiss ANYONE'S ass, you clearly don't know me. I suggest you keep personal attacks to the people you actually know.

This is business, tony, not a family picnic.

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tony286

I am not stuck on anything , I picked a team I will stay loyal to that team at this point. I dont live processor check to processor check. I dont know Chris , I hear goods things about him but if he is so sure ibill is going down the drain. Why not just sit back and let it happen, instead of taking shots it cheapens a image that always sounded pretty sterling.

tony286

If they are your clients they arent processing with iBill. Remember Chris made the statement a while ago you cant have iBill and Epoch ?

tony286

Your telling me its business ,they have my money not yours.

stocktrader23

It's time to look around for a liferaft dude.

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