richard

Just a little update, Varadox appear to be breaking a few more ICSTIS rules. ICSTIS being the regulating body in the UK for premium rate services.

1)

For all services, there must be a prominent and distinct display, for a suitable duration, of the call charges for the service prior to connection. For services designed for viewing on personal computers, ICSTIS expects to see a separate box containing a prominent display of call cost information (visible without any need to scroll down) in order to meet this requirement. Inclusion of the call cost information in any general terms and conditions alone will not satisfy this requirement.

Nope, no prominent display of call charge, i had to scroll down.

2)

A prominent and clear on-screen clock, or equivalent, which provides cumulative call cost information must be displayed on connection and for the duration of the service.

There is NO on screen clock, AT ALL.

3)
Internet content accessed using premium rate must not allow any further access to the worldwide web until the consumer disconnects from the premium rate service (often referred to as a "walled garden").

There is NO walled garden in place, i can surf any site i want using their dialer.

4)

A clear means of contacting the service provider or information provider must be available while using the service. This should remain visible or accessible (for example, through a help button) throughout the premium rate call.

Nope, nothing like this exists with Varadox dialers.

5)

The premium rate telephone number to be used must be displayed prior to connection to the service.

NOPE! no number whatsoever shown.

6)

The service must employ a system of PIN code access to enable parental control. PIN codes must not be published as part of any promotion.

Guess what? NO PIN protection in place on Varadox dialers.

7)

Prior to connection to the site, information about filtering content on any site accessed via premium rate must be provided. This information should include details alerting users to the fact that browser software may have proprietary filtering software installed which could be user-defined to block future access to the site. All information provided must be clear and prominent and not embedded amongst other terms and conditions relating to, for example, the warranty and copyright of downloaded dialler software

No mention of any filtering software that one could use to protect minors.

Wanna know another sneaky ass move they make? when dialing up, they hide the normal "two computers" you see in the taskbar flashing with data transfer, replacing it with their logo - which is very misleading.

The text on dialerheaven.com,

"Your site will be monitored for good business practice's and honesty towards your clients..."

seems very ironic.

Anyone from Varadox about to comment?

Tam

Richard, richard, richard...... when will you ever learn?

Hmmm....... I don't know what your problem is with me, you have set your sites on me for a very long time........ you TOLD me I'd be working for YOU someday and since I made you very clear on this you have done your level best to keep me from succeeding...... does it eat at you this bad that I have and you have yet to?

Does it keep you awake at night wondering how you can screw me over next? Does it bother you that people trust ME and they could give a rats ass whether you are here or not? Does it tear at your MANHOOD to know a woman has beaten you?

Does it also keep you awake wondering how this FEMALE has far surpassed anything you will ever accomplish?

It's no wonder you can't succeed in anything you do.......... you are too busy trying to ruin me..... well I can say this much to you, babe....... this is full of so many lies..... I can assure you that you have just made one HELL of a mistake and coming at ME will end up tearing you down, not me.

You see? I don't cheat or lie to anyone at all....... and this bothers you that I have succeeded withut resorting to YOUR games...... so keep playing your little game baby...... we shall see who is here in 5 years and who is not.

Why not go back to awi and play your little games over there........ you cannot stand the fact that with THIS here woman, you did not get your way.

Thanks,
Tam

------------------
May the Force Be With YOU!!
Up to $0.80 a minute!!Also taking broker apps!
You too can be Vectorized!!

SongRider

Ya just gotta love that little girl of mine*wink*

wolfshade

He doesn't do this on AWI because you can only do this on AWI when you pay Tim

Wolfshade


------------------
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richard

Tam,

This is nothing personal, and i know you are a well liked and respected webmistress and business woman.

However, what does Varadox have to say about my comments above? I'm not out to "ruin" anybody, nor am i jealous of you - with respect.

Yep, i have a vested interest in dialer topics, but only because its harder for me to compete when we use dialers that are 100% inline with ICSTIS guidelines, and where others appear to not be.

Someone else, tell me if i am somehow out of line here, and why.

candidpublishinginc

Tam,

I hate to say it. But Richard is right. Varadox dialers are not compliant with U.K. regulations.

A few weeks ago I mentioned this to you on ICQ. Nothing seemed to be done to remedy the problem.

The flip side of it is that you told me that your UK line provider did not require this. Since both of our companies are based in the U.S., I can understand how laws in other countries can sometimes be confusing.

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richard

As for my post being lies, i've just downloaded one of your dialers (actually looking for another company to see if they were compliant as it goes) and gone through each of the above points.

I'm downloading some "desktop capture" software now, see if i can't make my own home movie to show you my points.

Rich.

Tam

Thanks baby...

Wolfshade...... I was wondering the same thing.. why did he not slam me on his own board? Things that make ya go hmmmmmmmmm



Tam

------------------
May the Force Be With YOU!!
Up to $0.80 a minute!!Also taking broker apps!
You too can be Vectorized!!

wolfshade

Feels like I've been here before

Ain't Deja-vu a bitch?

Wolfshade


------------------
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richard

why did he not slam me on his own board? Things that make ya go hmmmmmmmmm

because i'm not out for a bashing, this is the overflow of another thread on dialer stuff.

If it makes you feel better, i'll post same on other boards?

Lets not make this personal Tam+Wolfshade, answer the above points, and lets be done with it.

monsieur man

Tam, if these points by richard are not true, why not tell us why, point by point how they are untrue. Or are you just trying to deflect attention from his points by trying to make it into a personal vendetta? He has valid points, let's hear your answers. This is the type of crap that gives dialers a bad name, all the other companies follow the rules, what makes you think you do not have to?

Tam

Ok so why'd ya bring this to Lensman's Board and not mine then Richard, if this was nothing personal? Why is this?

YOU know as well as I do this is a personal attack on me, you did it to me when I was with WebmasterCommerce and you are doing it to me now.

In fact a couple of hours ago on this thread here: http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ub...ML/007804.html

You tried once again to jump in my face about spamming when YOU did the same thing........ and this was a matter of hours ago....... so why now? Why ya gotta come at me now? Because I called youon YOUR own board? Hmm..... this is sooo not the first time you have come after me on any number of things........ so yeah it is personal, if it wasn't then why your PUBLIC fit? Hmmm.... answer this babe.......
http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ub...ML/003125.html

And here is perfect example of your GAMES that you say are NOT personal.... you edit MY posts at AWI to make me look like a spammer.... and then attack me for spamming.... so YOU tell me where you get off saying this is nothing personal.

You will get your answers, monsieur man, but you will get them from Higher ups than me..... I have paged them and they will be here soon...... so just sit tight baby. MY thing here is on a personal note with richard because this is what he has set out to do.
------------------
May the Force Be With YOU!!
Up to $0.80 a minute!!Also taking broker apps!
You too can be Vectorized!!

[This message has been edited by Tam (edited 08-06-2001).]

wolfshade

Rich my buddy

A few questions if I may:

You call this an update

Who are you updating? This is not a dialer board, that's mine Unless offcourse you want to use this thread to make your dialers look good?

And the fact that most people that are anybody in the adult biz frequent here and AWI is left out more and more wouldn't have anything to do with it?

In fact isn't this the same type of post that Tim goes bananas about when I post a thing like this on AWI?(Which I don't, as I respect my colleagues in the dialer bizz )

Now I was having just a bit of fun, but since you want to pull me and Tam as the regular reply to your posts, fine lets go.

Oh and bring Tim too I'd like a clash with him on a thread he can't close

Wolfshade


------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

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richard

Ok so why'd ya bring this to Lensman's Board and not mine then Richard

Because this thread: http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/...ML/006532.html (of which i was posting on related matters) was getting big, and off topic.

?

Next.

monsieur man

Wolfshade, your missing the point, Tam's dialer is breaking the law in the UK, plain and simple, according to what Richard is saying. I have not downloaded and looked at the dialer, but Tam has not denied any of his points. Are you going to answer his accusations point by point Tam?

wolfshade

Monsieur man,

I am not arguing about that. Simply because I do not know. I do not own Varadox, and I do not use their dialer(yet anyway) so I can't possibly tell you wether it's true or not.

I can however smell a motive for posting this other then that so called "update" Rich called it to begin with.

This bugs me because he shuts posts like this down on AWI, yet posts them here.

That's my point.

A practise what you preach kinda thing.

With the above being said I would like to add the following:

IMHO this is not an update but an attack on a competing dialer.

Wether or not it is true is not my concern. It simply is not his call to make. because:

1) he is not a lawyer
2) Has no business with the company he is accusing.

Therefor (again IMHO) only the motive I decribed above remains as a reason for posting this thread.

After reading the thread he refers to I strongly believe that thread didn't get the attention he wanted and therefor posted it as a new.

So in a nutshell

No I don't have an opinion on the topic(at this point I have not enough information)

Yes I do have an opinion on the motive this thread was posted with.
And have stated it.

Wolfshade


------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

Tam

To the best of our knowledge ICSTIS is not part of any governmental body, but rather is an industry-appointed advisory group that presents suggested codes of conduct and methods of practice to the dialer industry.

Though ICSTIS clearly states on their website, and in their documentation, the code of practice that dialer companies are expected to follow according to their own arbitrary guidelines, what is not clear is either the authority under which they operate, nor the concise penalties for failure to comply with those arbitrary standards.

Varadox is, to the best of our knowledge, in full compliance with the legal standards set forth by governmental regulatory bodies and lawmaking entities in the countries and municipalities effected by Varadox service. In addition, Varadox service providers have in no way indicated that failure to comply with the ICSTIS code of practice would be a violation of law. We will continue to work closely with our service providers to ensure that Varadox remains in compliance with the law.

Varadox is grateful for the opportunity to address your concerns. We will forward your comments and suggestions to our attorneys for review as part of our ongoing commitment to compliance.

Varadox Communications Corp.

------------------
May the Force Be With YOU!!
Up to $0.80 a minute!!Also taking broker apps!
You too can be Vectorized!!

Theo

can dialers of 60kb have so much functions? ops i forgot, they're not written in visual basic This reminds me old home computers where in 48kb you had a full adventure game with graphics! The british law sounds very good and protects UK citizens which is possitive, such efforts should be followed from other countries to and might have as a result to save the upcoming "death" of dialers.

By the way,can you imagine a virus programmer to build a virus-dialer that will autoconnect without showing anything while you work your computer, you're sleeping or you're out? This would be a real nightmare.

mukoh

tam. Email me at [email protected] i was trying to signup for your dialer a few days ago, and can't enter british columbia, i am in Canada.

mukoh

oops tam nevermind, i got it.

Snickster

Well is the ICSTIS part of the government or not? That to me seems interesting. Their site really is vague, as Varadox's "public statement" seems to infer.

Richard: If your real complaint was unfair competition then you would resell for Varadox and get the competitive edge, instead of pulling your underoos all up in your crack about it. Everyone knows this is a personal attack and has nothing to do with dialers.

Just calling them like I see them.

[This message has been edited by Snickster (edited 08-06-2001).]

Kimmykim

Boy, this is ugly. I've known Richard online for quite some time, and I've not known him to pull dirty tricks or make personal attacks on people, especially not in the guise of something else.

I've also known Tam for quite some time, and she's a very good friend to me, and I was a bit surprised by the tone of her answer as well as the words, since she's not prone to flying off the handle unprovoked.

If this is something personal then I'd think that the two are adult enough to work it out privately -- and if it's a discussion about what's allowed and what's not in the UK regarding dialers then let's see the discussion follow itself to a conclusion...

Anyone promoting dialers certainly deserves and I would think, wants, to have as much information about all the products that are out there and the liability they may face for using them, as well as the general liabilities of the dialer industry itself.

Sometimes it is funny to see people piss around at each other, sometimes it doesn't have the least merit, even for 'smiles' value.

Techie Media

First of all, I dont know this Richard guy, but it seems hes a real shit stirrer if you ask me. Now from my research this ICSTIS is not any type of Government agency. Rather just a group of dingbats making up some rules for dialer providers to go by, (Please correct me if I'am mistaken). Veradox is a hell of a good company, and The owner is nothing but an honest guy, running a great program. Richard if this isnt a personnal attack on Tam, then it's a really shitty way to conduct professional business.. It's people like you that just start shit in public for no reason at all. Whats the point???

Kimmy you were typing at the same time..LOL.. Everything Kimmy said is totally right, Tam is a hell of a good friend to me and Most everyone on the net that knows her. This attack is totall bull hookie... If the accusations against Veradox are true by "Legal" standards, then I'am sure they will be addressed and corrected ASAP. If there not true, then all you did Richard is try to start some shit for some good people.


------------------
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[This message has been edited by Lightning (edited 08-06-2001).]

Rivux

Regardless of what Richards intentions are, he raised valid points, and all Tam did, was dance around them like Ricky Martin at a Gay Pride Parade.

Even if this UK body isnt able to legally inforce anything, even if all they can do is suggest guidelines. The question is, why arent dialer companies following them? Not just yours Tam, but every single one of them. Why would a company not follow guidelines that make sense and would benefit the user. Why? Well because then it might cut in to their all mighty profit, and we wouldnt want something like that to happen, now would we.

I am interested in hearing not only from Tam, who I must say I have registered with in the past. But from all dialer companies. Why would you not follow these guidelines? I have doubts though if anyone has the balls to respond.

just my 2 cents

Snickster

Besides, Richard, your dialers may be in compliance, but your advertising, promotion and distribution of it is not.

ICSTIS Website:
"3.4.1 The service provider must ensure that the charge for calls to each service is clearly stated in all promotions. Prices must be noted in the form of a numerical price per minute, inclusive of VAT, or the total maximum cost to the consumer of the complete message or service."

The price must be clearly stated in ALL promotions. Hmmm.. that would mean no autodownloads, no blind links, no Active-X, etc. Since you are so compliant I guess you'll be e-mailing all your webmasters tonite to tell them of this small change.

Wait.. here's another one. LOL

"3.2.1 Services and promotional material must not:

a contain material indicating violence, sadism or cruelty, or be of a repulsive or horrible nature,

b involve the use of foul language."

I wonder what we'll find if we check your webmaster's sites for foul language?

Of course, that might increase the gap yet again between you and competitors, but we know how eager you are to comply with the rules.

Techie Media

Snickster, Now that was some good investigative work....I'am laughing so hard now I'am getting a cramp in my side...LOLLOL...Good find my friend...

SNOW

This is comedy Ladies and Gentleman..

[email protected]

-=HUNGRYMAN=-

ok .... here is my update ... LOL

and I will go on the record as 100 % UNBIASED to Richard, Wolfshade, or Tam (how can you not love a girl with nipples that should be registered as concealed weapons?)

We have, I think, established the fact that the dialer that Tam uses is NOT ICSTIS compliant ... even the dialer owner blatently admits that ...

Now we have to move on to the next issue here... is ICSTIS a government appointed agency ... or are they somebody who decided to earn "good samaritan" points by trying to play God with the dialer owners ??

I am neither FOR or AGAINST the use of dialers ... Have I used them on my sites ? Yes. I believe that the CAVEAT EMPTOR responsabilities fall upon the end user (the surfer) ... If you do not see rates per minute, or active clock or whatever ... very good chances that you will be paying more than you wish to ...

We are webmasters ... not babysitters !!
Yes there are a few people operating dialers that are just OUTRIGHT IMMORAL ... (and I beleive they all know who they are, without me having to haze them ...), but it is NOT my responsability when a surfer gets his $300 (or 500 or even more) phone bill when he visited my site 'X' number of times over the past month ... the little bastard should have just paid $30 for a membership ... or if he has no credit card ... he should have learned the first time ... to be a more concious consumer ... anything you purchase "on time", be it a sex site membership or twenty ... dialer minutes ... or even a fucking pair of new shoes for that matter ... know the price of what you are buying, and realize that the "payment fairy" will not take care of it for you ...you WILL eventually have to pay for it ...

It is not MY fault that Joe Surfer was thinking with the wrong head when he logged onto my dialer ... 'I WAS HORNY' is no more an excuse than 'I WAS DRUNK' is to somebody trying to explain why they killed the cute little 4 year old girl who lives next door to them !!!

If you make the concious decision to have 6 Martinis during a business lunch, then YES, you deserve to rot in jail when you kill somebody ... likewise, if you make the concious decision to use whatever dialer to access your porn, you are responsible for the phone bill that results !!

YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS !!! Not ME, nor TAM, nor anybody else for that matter ! I am SICK AND FUCKING TIRED of all the whining about who is using what dialer.

My grandfather once told me ... if you have to ASK the price, you probably cannot afford it. I guess this is why Fords have the sticker price attached to the passenger window ... Has anybody ever seen the sticker price on the window of a FERRARI ??? Nuff said.

BTW ... the dialers I use are very "up front" about their charges ... but that was MY CHOICE ...

------------------
A boneprone Family Member

[This message has been edited by -=HUNGRYMAN=- (edited 08-06-2001).]

Kimmykim

ROFL, the Ricky Martin comment made the whole thread worth it!!!!

Rivux

I agree with hungryman on this one, that we have to move away from a pissing match about who uses what dialer.

This is from the ICSTIS website

"The Independent Committee for the Supervision of Standards of Telephone Information Services (ICSTIS) is the regulatory body for the premium rate telecommunications industry. "

As well

"This Code applies to all premium rate services which are accessed by a customer in the United Kingdom, whether those services are provided from within the United Kingdom or from abroad and whether the service provider is situated within the United Kingdom or abroad. "

Those 2 statements I think clear up 2 of the questions that were asked, unless I am reading them completely wrong.

So if they are a regulating body, then why are companies not adhering to their rules? And "because we havent been caught yet" isnt a good answer. Why would a company blatantly and knowingly break the law?

Just wondering

-=HUNGRYMAN=-

Cmon Rivux ... admit it ... you are only agreeing with me because I just shot you free software .... LMMFAO



------------------
A boneprone Family Member :D

Rivux

well ok you got me

keep shooting me software and I will go along with anything

-=HUNGRYMAN=-

This is for the less articulate amongst us:

CAVEAT EMPTOR: Latin for "buyer beware." This rule generally applies to all sales between individuals. It gives the buyer full responsibility for determining the quality of the goods in question. The seller generally has no duty to offer warranties or to disclose defects in the goods.



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A boneprone Family Member :D

-=HUNGRYMAN=-

Rivux just made me a 50% partner !!!

(HERE COMES PHOTOSHOP !!!!) LMFAO



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A boneprone Family Member :D

Kimmykim

Ooh caveat emptor's all fine and dandy til the FTC steps in and starts talking about misleading consumers... and I'm sure most all civilized countries have their own version of the FTC

Rivux

I dont think people should worry about the FTC or any other body if they do what is best for the customer. What ever happened to keep the customer happy and customer service being number 1. The FTC and any other body wouldnt get involved if businesses didnt screw over customers time and time again.

Keep the customer in mind at all times and there wouldnt be any problems.

-=HUNGRYMAN=-

KK ... I agree with you ... some dialers deserve to be shut down ... but my point is that as webmasters, we should not be held liable for the concious decisions of our surfers ... It is not like webmasters are FORCEFEEDING the dialers to the surfers ...(OK, a few are, and they deserve to be dealt with ...)Surfers are given a choice ... it is called the CANCEL button !!!

So by your theories ... we should place a 100% ban on ALL ALCOHOL ... that would put an end to people being killed by drunk drivers, right ??

Making handguns illegal will stop people from getting shot, right??? (Wait a minute ... HANDGUNS ARE ILLEGAL here in Canada !!!)

While we are at it ... let's make castration (OWWWWCH!!) manditory for all male babies ... that will prevent unwanted teen pregnancies, right ??

"My ... how simplistic life becomes, wearing these rose-colored glasses !!!" Hungryman exclaims, while looking a whole helluva lot like Woody Harrelson in Natural Born Killers.


Let's get back on topic here ... VARADOX is not MISLEADING the surfer ... they are not promising the surfer that if they press this button, that they will get access to the "Never before seen Britney Spears-Christina Aguilera lesbian video footage"

Do you ever go into a store and buy ???? (let's say new shoes), without finding out how much they cost ?? If so ... I have a something for sale (see http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/...ML/006634.html ), that I will let you have ... just give me your credit card number !!!

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A boneprone Family Member



[This message has been edited by -=HUNGRYMAN=- (edited 08-07-2001).]

richard

Good morning

As i now understand it, you could obtain a premium rate number for a standard "recorded" voice service, without requiring an ICSTIS certificate.

There are few, if any at all service providers who are not signed up with ICSTIS, which basically means that you have to follow their guidelines.

If you operate a uk PRS, or advertise to a UK audience, you have to follow their guidelines, end of story - the DO have the power to shut you off.

As dialers go, in my opinion there's is a particularly nasty one - considering it hides the two computers in the taskbar showing that you are connected.

Richard.

Snickster

Richard, you were doing so well with your mouth shut. You have yet to answer the areas of your own failed compliance. Anyone reading the website can see that the ICSTIS is only a regulatory body by it's own making.

Again, for those who are a little slow, like Richard, the moron who gave birth to this turd of a topic:

1. ICSTIS is not affiliated with ANY government body. This means that their rules are NOT law, and they possess no authority of law.

2. The only way they impose sanctions is by strong-arming the sheep who already signed up for their crap into NOT doing business with the non-compliant company. Sort of like extortion, with a little blackballing thrown in for good measure.

If it isn't law, and they have no auhtority outside of their voluntary membership, then why SHOULD Varadox comply?

Comms_god

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

You obviously do not know anything about this so why pass on dangerously comments that will result in one residing factor:

WEBMASTERS YOU WILL NOT GET PAID BE WARNED

ICSTIS can shut down a telephone number with 2 minutes notice. The person who supplied the number can also be banned from operating.
BIG DEAL!! you reply but I bet Varadox have the same UK phone number in every dialer so lets say they get away with shafting the UK surfers for the first couple of months by which time their dialers will be on a lot of computers all over the world bringing a lot of recurring revenue for the webmasters.

When ICSTIS see that dialer they will kill the phone number forever and the telco will not not get paid for the outstanding minutes so neither will Varadox and neither will WEBMASTERS

(don't worry ICSTIS will find out UK surfers know how to complain as soon as one gets a high phonebill they will be busted)

This applies for any Europeanm domestic route just like any business if you give a people a reason not to pay you they will not compliance is vitally important if you want to stay around and get paid.

richard

Snickster:

If it isn't law, and they have no auhtority outside of their voluntary membership, then why SHOULD Varadox comply

Did you not know the line provider in the UK that gives Varadox their UK numbers, is registered with ICSTIS?

lol

Snickster

That's fine, Richard. They are registered. You still haven't addressed your own failed compliance.

And is ICSTIS a government body? Yes or no? Why does everyone keep hedging around this issue? If they aren't a government body then what gives them the authority to levy fines and sanctions?

And of course you are going to argue for compliance, Richard. You have already grabbed your ankles for the powers that be.

Gemini

It appears from reading their site thoroughly that they are like the states PUCO organizations. Sort of a board of experts that are paid by the privates - phone companies in this case but do have authority. They themselves can't file charges but they take it to the proper authorities to straighten out problems and actually levy charges or fines etc.

And they being experts make the rules that the government may or may not listen to but most of the time they do. (In the PUCO's cases)

And the ICSTIS CEO is an ex Brit cabinet member? Ouch!

<font color="#606060">



[This message has been edited by Gemini (edited 08-07-2001).]

richard

http://www.oftel.gov.uk/ind_info/numbering/prs0900.htm

read a little about the relationship between icstis and the government there.

3.10 Promotions in non-print media

Promotions transmitted by radio, television, teletext, telephone, facsimile, Internet or any other form of communication must observe the provisions of this Code in the manner most reasonable and appropriate to the technology employed.

One assumes that a dialer listing the price in the software is reasonable and appropriate.

For services designed for viewing on personal computers, ICSTIS expects to see a separate box containing a prominent display of call cost information (visible without any need to scroll down) in order to meet this requirement

Richard.

btw Snickster, what sites do you run? and are you related somehoe to Inside over on AWI boards? Why do you feel you have to be annonymous when you post?

Snickster

What do you care who I am? It seems that hardly matters, except to divert attention. I am not a webmaster. I am a professional technical witness for criminal cases involving computers.

Richard, are you saying emphatically that the dialer released by Varadox is in violation of the law? Because if that claim was found to be untrue and your post somehow effected the ability of Varadox to do business, you would be exposing yourself to a whole range of ramifications. Not to mention that your reseller agreement may qualify as representation, which would hold your dialer provider responsible for your comments as well.

Are you saying that Varadox is breaking the law?

richard

nope.

They are, (and this is undisputable), breaking ICSTIS regulations. Their line provider is "registered" (or whatever the terminology is) with ICSTIS - and is bound by their decisions - ICSTIS could at any stage terminate the number, fine/ban the line provider (which in turn could result in the line provider taking action against Varadox to recover the fine?).

Which could potentially all lead to future problems for webmasters down the road - cetainly from losing minutes if the UK number is "turned off".

I'm not picking a fight, just want to know what the situation is. I just find it unfair that other companies have to compete against a company that is breaking icstis rules.

I guess there is not much else to say here? Just gotta wait and see what happens i suppose.

Nice to meet you though Snickster, technical witness sounds an interesting job, hit me up on icq, i'd like to learn more about that .

wiZd0m

This is the <best> board to come and drown fishes, you should have known that by now, LOL

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wiZd0m

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Snickster

Okay, so let me get this straight. This non-governmental non-profit agency made up of industry appointed persons and paid by industry dollars (pounds?) is a completely unbiased authority? I think not.

They are funded by members. Sort of like a protection scheme.

Compliance is voluntary, but you can be sanctioned for not complying. Doesn't sound so voluntary, does it? Sort of like strong-arm tactics.

Sanctions include participating members refusing you service. Kind of like "blackballing", a violation of trade practice in most of the free world.

Sanctions also include fines that must be paid before your service through it's members is restored. Sort of like extortion.

What's next? Kneecapping webmasters who use the word FREE?

Comms_god

Premium Rate Service for Newbies Part 1

Network Opperator - A public telecomunications operator, listed under Annex II as such and reconised as such by ICTSIS.

Service Provider - A company that contracts for a PRS service with a Network Opperator (Normaly the guy with the modems).

Information Provider - A company who provides service over a Service Providers system.

The Network Operator pays a leviy to ICTSIS (I think about 0.6p per minute)

The Service Provider is 100% responsable for implmenting the ICTSIS code of conduct

ICTSIS is a industry self regulation body, who have been granted powers by the Government to police the PRS business.

They can ban people operating , cut off phone numbers and stop you getting paid.
They also publish a letter every month listing all the people who broke the rules so other operators know not to deal with them.

If you break the rules a few times you get banned simple as that

TheRegulator

The ICSTIS Code of Practice also applies to international services which can be accessed by callers in the UK.