Why I dont feel bad about using the dialer. - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Exxxotica · 07-25-2001, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by boneprone:
Im not an ass kisser, but the hun has a very strong point.

I have yet to remove the dialers from my site but unlike before I am understaning why so many tgp owners are against them.

Ive preached quality quality quality many times here at GFY, and have spoke out against popups, autobookmarkers, and exit consoles more than I can remember.

If the surfer truely is tricked into loading this dialer do doubt it is hurting, if not killing potential future buyers of porn... No Doubt..

But I guess Im in self denial right now assuming that the people who use my dialer are more impulsive rather than "tricked" to use my dialer. Im sure that a percentage of my surfers are tricked into using it, but Im trying to find the difference between this and joining an actual "normal" pay site where they are also "tricked" into the recurring monthly billing.

Surely most people never intend to be rebilled every month at 39.95 every month after paying only 4.95 for a trial.

If one finds using the dialer as wrong or a trick technique that destroys the trust the surfer has for future purchases, how does the dynamics of recurring billing not fall into this catagory? Did American Express have a legitamate complaint, or were they over reacting when they pulled out of the porn site arena saying that porn sites primary function is to "trick" the surfer into a cycle of unwanted monthy billing..

If we really wanted to make things perfect for the surfer, dont just get rid of the dialer get rid of recurring billing.

How would you all like that?
No more 30.00 per sign-up? It would go down to 5.00 or less. Partnership programs would not exist, or would not be worth the trouble, and the industry would not be nearly as rich as it is now.

Your dialer minutes must be low for the month or somthing.

jimmyf · 07-25-2001, 10:49 AM

Very well said Tam.

Jim

Tam · 07-25-2001, 10:56 AM

Hun.... no kidding....... I bet he'd feel he was getting his 15 minutes of fame as a result of his getting off....... LMAO

Ok here is the first part of my disclaimer, way before the technical crap that everyone gets tired of and just says to hell with it and clicks ok...... not saying I am better than anyone..... but just to let you know that we aren't ALL out to rip the surfer totally blind....... as you will see it is very clear they will be charged, and this is in the very top of our dialers:

"VARADOX COMMUNICATIONS CORPORATION ("Varadox")
DIALER SOFTWARE AGREEMENT

CAREFULLY READ THE FOLLOWING AGREEMENT. THE
SOFTWARE IS FOR USE SOLELY BY RESPONSIBLE ADULTS
OVER THE AGE OF 18 OR THE AGE OF CONSENT IN THE
JURISDICTION FROM WHICH YOU ARE DOWNLOADING THE
SOFTWARE. THERE WILL BE A PER MINUTE
CHARGE ASSOCIATED WITH EVERY USE OF THE
SOFTWARE OF:

USA - 4.99 USD
United - Kingdom 1.50 GBP
Germany - 3.53 DEM
All Others - Int'l Long Distance Applies

BY CLICKING ON THE "ACCEPT" BUTTON, YOU
ARE CONSENTING TO BE BOUND BY AND ARE BECOMING A
PARTY TO THIS AGREEMENT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO
ALL OF THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, CLICK THE "DO
NOT ACCEPT" BUTTON AND PROCEED NO FURTHER."

You have the Company Name, of which we never try and hide.......
Then you have the "you better damn well be an adult" thing, and then there is the costs..... very clear and very cut and dry.... and then they go off into this neverending disclaimer.... but always always we put the Company name and costs very close to the top of the dialer disclaimer we use.

So when I say that not all of us are crooked and dishonest, I mean it. We do our very best to see that if they are about to spend alot of damn money, then they know about it...... some of the costs are buried way down at the bottom of all that "boring shit" so no one ever gets there... we did our very best to put the most important points as close to the top as we could get them...... in an effort to make it as honest as we possibly can.

AND I totally agree with you... you have always put what you want on YOUR site.... and if I have something you don't want there, I just don't submit to you, as do I with some that don't want this or that..... I won't have anyone telling me how to run my sites and neither will I tell them how to run theirs..... it's ok to agree to disagree, but it is NOT ok to go and say I hate him because he doesn't believe in what I believe in.

Tam

------------------
May the Force Be With YOU!!
Up to $0.80 a minute!!Also taking broker apps!
You too can be Vectorized!!

The Hun · 07-25-2001, 11:05 AM

4.99 a minute... that's 120 USD for 25 minutes... phew...

The Hun · 07-25-2001, 11:06 AM

With a 4.75 discount that is...

Tam · 07-25-2001, 11:09 AM

Yeah but you look at some.. they charge up to $10 a minute and then they bury that at the bottom..... we are quite honest about what they pay.......

I wouldn't pay it either, but then I wouldn't pay $50 for a steak dinbner either, shit I could feed my kids for a week on that.... but people toss their cash out the door on some pretty strange things..........

Even I spend my money in what some thing are weird ways, but it's mine.......

My point here is, Hun, we don't bury or hide our costs to anyone..... surfer or otherwise........ would you agree with this?

Tam

------------------
May the Force Be With YOU!!
Up to $0.80 a minute!!Also taking broker apps!
You too can be Vectorized!!

[This message has been edited by Tam (edited 07-25-2001).]

wolfshade · 07-25-2001, 12:18 PM

Hun,

When you install a dialer of mine it tells you straight on teh first page what it costs.

Then it repeats that 3 times during the install. if after all that the surfer still uses it YOU CAN NOT POSSIBLY BLAME me for it or the dialercompany that made the thing.

Stupidity like that just BEGS to be rewarded and it does.

I agree you decide what goes on your site and what not but you came in to this thread with a very loud opinion about ethics which is fine also but then I deliver critique on your own rules. I mean if you can I can right?

And yes I am smarter then that where I not this would be a pissing match

BTW with investigating do you mean investigatingthe AVS or the submitter of that gallery? Because if it's the AVS you're doing it the wrong way around again in my opinion.

You see I am all for a BAN on unethical advertising on galleries I am AGAINS banning sponsors or sponsorprograms.

I think you should work it that way.

Wolfshade

------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

-=HUNGRYMAN=- · 07-25-2001, 12:32 PM

JESUS !!!
If anybody is stupid enough to pay $75 for 25 minutes of who knows what ... send ME your $75 and I will hook you up with 800 MINUTES of my VIDEOS ON DEMAND !!!

These are all the same commercially available movies you see on the shevles of you local adult movie store ...

Just my opinion ... but $75 for 25 mins is like those 30 minute "girl lying in the beach, with waves flowing over her thong" commercials, which state ONCE at the end of the 30 minute spot, that there is a $50 charge to call ....

But to really play Devil's Advocate ... you guys RUNNING somebody else's dialer, are JUST AS STUPID as that poor surfer !!!

If all you made from that $75 dollar call was $8 ... you need to take a business course or something ... you are making the person who owns the dialer rich ... while you make almost FUCK ALL !!!
WAKE UP !!!

I am going to reduce my 60% recurring commission on my affiliate program to 2% if that is the case !!!

------------------

A boneprone Family Member :D

The Hun · 07-25-2001, 12:40 PM

Wolf, we're investigating the 'free' that's advertised... the wording on that needs to be changed.

Exxxotica · 07-25-2001, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by -=HUNGRYMAN=-:
JESUS !!!
If anybody is stupid enough to pay $75 for 25 minutes of who knows what ... send ME your $75 and I will hook you up with 800 MINUTES of my VIDEOS ON DEMAND !!!

If all you made from that $75 dollar call was $8 ... you need to take a business course or something ... you are making the person who owns the dialer rich ... while you make almost FUCK ALL !!!
WAKE UP !!!

If you can provide an alternative pay per view type of set up that pays better than a dialer...I and another million dialer users would would switch instantly.

You must be using some new industry changing technology if you can provide streaming video to FREE sites and pay more than .35-.45 a minute.

You must be the "Hun" of streaming technology.

jonnax · 07-25-2001, 01:39 PM

Mr Hun,

In page http://www.thehun.net/webmaster/
you are pushing dialercompany (nocreditcard.com) for webmasters
why?

wolfshade · 07-25-2001, 03:14 PM

Hun,

Don't take this the wrong way as it is not meant to bash you in any way but I have to say this:

I frequent your pages often to check the galleries and possibly get some new ideas.

Those pages you are now investigating have been posted for months now and only recently you noticed?

With all due respect I find that a little hard to believe.

Wolfshade

------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

boneprone · 07-26-2001, 01:23 AM

Hypo · 07-26-2001, 04:17 AM

Exxxotica, the only reason you dont feel bad about using dialers is the same reason you dont feel bad about stealing songs off Napster - you have no morals. You probably also use hacked and cracked softare and steal content.

If you guys think anyone reads your 1000 word disclaimers, you must be imbeciles. If you really wanted to be honest, you would print the charge in clear bold type on the main software instead of hiding it in some disclaimer you know everyone is used to ignoring.

Your argument seems to be that stupid people need to be punished. I havent heard anything weaker than that. Being stupid is less of a sin than being a thief. In that case you guys ought to be paying up more than those guys who were stupid enough to download your leeching dialers.

Anyone who uses a dialer would probably be robbing and stealing from people if it were as easy as using a dialer. You know in your heart you are doing the wrong thing, you are only trying to convince yourself otherwise with your feeble arguments.

wolfshade · 07-26-2001, 04:36 AM

Hmm? c'mon bone speak up!

Say what ya mean and mean what ya say

Wolfshade

------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

wolfshade · 07-26-2001, 07:36 AM

Hypo:

A few facts:

FACT

In the first 3 lines on the terms of my dialer it says what it costs per minute.

FACT

It gets repeated 2 times after that(totalling 3)

FACT

The user has to click on agree to install it

FACT

I have customers using my dialers(surfers) that are very happy because the anonymity of the dialer provides them a sense of security and teh knowledge their CC information will not be spread online(It's childlike easy to get CC # and that's a fact too) They feel the added service is worth the charge.

So in a Nutshell I would say before you judge you should know what you are talking about.

Second

If you go to the store and buy a VCR don't read the warranty, break it and discover it's not within the warranty so you have to pay for the repairs. Who's at fault? You for not reading or the supplier?

If you get an insurance policy and don't read the fine print only to discover that when your house burns down by lightning it's not covered by it because there is a clause that says natural disasters are not included.

Who's at fault you for not reading or the insurance company?

Same thing goes for online stuff. We provide the tools to call in at a charge we seem fit to ask. we deliver the means to see the cost open and in plain view. It is the consumers CHOICE not to read or ignore the terms and we as webmasters can NOT be held accountable for that.

And that is basically why I feel that the position TGP owners have taken towards dialers is wrong.

Wolfshade

------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

The Hun · 07-27-2001, 01:45 AM

Pretty weak defends Wolf... First of all: dialers are NOT anonimous. A bill for the exact amount of minutes you called will be delivered to your house. If you run the dialer-server yourself you know that in the database of it there's the phonenumber of the person that called (that's a home phonenumber, so you know the exact location and name of the person, even his phonenumber, which is more than you can tell from a creditcard number). Not reading the "small print" is no excuse for dialers that rip people off. Why do you think it's called "small print". It's to stay on the legal side, but at the same time try to hide some things from people in the hope some would not read it. It's putting up a little sign on a streat saying "entering this will get you mugged"... is it fair to hit people that enter anyway for hitting 'em over the head with a club and robbing 'em blind for not reading the sign? Again, I'm not against dialers, and your dialer might change a reasonable sum of money. But when people have to pay 75 USD for a 25 minute call it's a rip-off. And THAT'S what this whole discussion is about!

wolfshade · 07-27-2001, 02:16 AM

Hun don't make me smack ya

Seriously you are dead wrong and therefor I ask you to read my reply again:

Quote:

FACT

In the first 3 lines on the terms of my dialer it says what it costs per minute.
(that means on the first screen they see in plain view!)

FACT

It gets repeated 2 times after that(totalling 3)

FACT

The user has to click on agree to install it

I would not call that fine print do ya? The phonerates are up in plain view not hidden somewhere below 100 lines of text. What part of those facts don't you understand?

Second

As for anonimity I was referring to the CC info. I do not know about you but I know at least 300!!! people that been screwed when entering their CC info to buy something online. Like I said It's childlike easy to get that info in fact if I wanted to I could reap 200 CC # within the hour!

With dialers you don't have that problem as that info is never disclosed.

Trust me when I say that gives some people(specialy the ones that experienced what I mentioned above) a REAL SENSE OF SECURITY

Now I wouldn't call this a weak defense I sure as hell will call this a true defense.

It's realy simple Hun the price is in plain view and if you dont like it don't use it. It is not up to you or me to determine what things should cost it's up to the consumer to decide wether he/she wants to pay it or not. There is no hidden cost here, but people do ignore terns and I truly feel that is their problem not ours.

Therefor I stick to my opinion TGP owners with a stand against dialers are wrong.

Just like the ones doing trades within their listings yet forbid blind links on a gallery

Or TGP's listing free programs that bill ya anyway for that matter

Have an opinion fine
Have a rule fine too

But practise what you preach and don't allow the one while banning the other

Wolfshade

------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

[This message has been edited by wolfshade (edited 07-27-2001).]

drumsicle · 07-27-2001, 02:32 AM

I don't even use dialers. Not yet anyway. But I think you do have point Wolfshade. I've known people with a lot of money that don't give a fuck what they spend as long as they get what they want.

Some people spend shitloads of money on Dom perignon and fine scotch. Not me, cause it doesn't mean anything to me. If I want alchohol I'll get some cheap beer.

Back in my younger days I would pay topdollar for the kind bud. Others thought I was crazy and would only get the cheap mexican shit.

What I'm trying to get at is things are worth what people are willing to pay for them.

$75 for 25 min. when they could pay $30 for a month of a paysite doesn't necessarily mean anything. People sell water two dollars a bottle. I can walk over to the sink and get all of the water I can stand to drink.

I think what's worse is that the customer pays $75 and the webmaster only makes $8

Just my $.02

wolfshade · 07-27-2001, 03:51 AM

Amen brother!

As far as teh 8 bucks go you have to take into account that maintaining the lines and equipment is very expensive though. it's not all profit(I wish!)

Wolfshade

------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

07-26-2001, 01:23 AM	#63
boneprone Hall Of Fame Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Portland Oregon USA Posts: 34,415	hmm

07-25-2001, 10:49 AM	#52
jimmyf OU812 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: California Posts: 12,651	Very well said Tam. Jim

07-25-2001, 10:56 AM	#53
Tam Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: In your face Posts: 8,488	Hun.... no kidding....... I bet he'd feel he was getting his 15 minutes of fame as a result of his getting off....... LMAO Ok here is the first part of my disclaimer, way before the technical crap that everyone gets tired of and just says to hell with it and clicks ok...... not saying I am better than anyone..... but just to let you know that we aren't ALL out to rip the surfer totally blind....... as you will see it is very clear they will be charged, and this is in the very top of our dialers: "VARADOX COMMUNICATIONS CORPORATION ("Varadox") DIALER SOFTWARE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY READ THE FOLLOWING AGREEMENT. THE SOFTWARE IS FOR USE SOLELY BY RESPONSIBLE ADULTS OVER THE AGE OF 18 OR THE AGE OF CONSENT IN THE JURISDICTION FROM WHICH YOU ARE DOWNLOADING THE SOFTWARE. THERE WILL BE A PER MINUTE CHARGE ASSOCIATED WITH EVERY USE OF THE SOFTWARE OF: USA - 4.99 USD United - Kingdom 1.50 GBP Germany - 3.53 DEM All Others - Int'l Long Distance Applies BY CLICKING ON THE "ACCEPT" BUTTON, YOU ARE CONSENTING TO BE BOUND BY AND ARE BECOMING A PARTY TO THIS AGREEMENT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO ALL OF THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, CLICK THE "DO NOT ACCEPT" BUTTON AND PROCEED NO FURTHER." You have the Company Name, of which we never try and hide....... Then you have the "you better damn well be an adult" thing, and then there is the costs..... very clear and very cut and dry.... and then they go off into this neverending disclaimer.... but always always we put the Company name and costs very close to the top of the dialer disclaimer we use. So when I say that not all of us are crooked and dishonest, I mean it. We do our very best to see that if they are about to spend alot of damn money, then they know about it...... some of the costs are buried way down at the bottom of all that "boring shit" so no one ever gets there... we did our very best to put the most important points as close to the top as we could get them...... in an effort to make it as honest as we possibly can. AND I totally agree with you... you have always put what you want on YOUR site.... and if I have something you don't want there, I just don't submit to you, as do I with some that don't want this or that..... I won't have anyone telling me how to run my sites and neither will I tell them how to run theirs..... it's ok to agree to disagree, but it is NOT ok to go and say I hate him because he doesn't believe in what I believe in. Tam ------------------ May the Force Be With YOU!! Up to $0.80 a minute!!Also taking broker apps! You too can be Vectorized!!

07-25-2001, 11:05 AM	#54
The Hun Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,207	4.99 a minute... that's 120 USD for 25 minutes... phew...

07-25-2001, 11:06 AM	#55
The Hun Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,207	With a 4.75 discount that is...

07-25-2001, 11:09 AM	#56
Tam Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: In your face Posts: 8,488	Yeah but you look at some.. they charge up to $10 a minute and then they bury that at the bottom..... we are quite honest about what they pay....... I wouldn't pay it either, but then I wouldn't pay $50 for a steak dinbner either, shit I could feed my kids for a week on that.... but people toss their cash out the door on some pretty strange things.......... Even I spend my money in what some thing are weird ways, but it's mine....... My point here is, Hun, we don't bury or hide our costs to anyone..... surfer or otherwise........ would you agree with this? Tam ------------------ May the Force Be With YOU!! Up to $0.80 a minute!!Also taking broker apps! You too can be Vectorized!! [This message has been edited by Tam (edited 07-25-2001).]

07-25-2001, 12:18 PM	#57
wolfshade Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: The right place Posts: 847	Hun, When you install a dialer of mine it tells you straight on teh first page what it costs. Then it repeats that 3 times during the install. if after all that the surfer still uses it YOU CAN NOT POSSIBLY BLAME me for it or the dialercompany that made the thing. Stupidity like that just BEGS to be rewarded and it does. I agree you decide what goes on your site and what not but you came in to this thread with a very loud opinion about ethics which is fine also but then I deliver critique on your own rules. I mean if you can I can right? And yes I am smarter then that where I not this would be a pissing match BTW with investigating do you mean investigatingthe AVS or the submitter of that gallery? Because if it's the AVS you're doing it the wrong way around again in my opinion. You see I am all for a BAN on unethical advertising on galleries I am AGAINS banning sponsors or sponsorprograms. I think you should work it that way. Wolfshade ------------------ Wolfshade's Moneymakers Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!! It's the choice of an Adult generation! ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

07-25-2001, 12:32 PM	#58
-=HUNGRYMAN=- Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Between your mamma's legs Posts: 4,753	JESUS !!! If anybody is stupid enough to pay $75 for 25 minutes of who knows what ... send ME your $75 and I will hook you up with 800 MINUTES of my VIDEOS ON DEMAND !!! These are all the same commercially available movies you see on the shevles of you local adult movie store ... Just my opinion ... but $75 for 25 mins is like those 30 minute "girl lying in the beach, with waves flowing over her thong" commercials, which state ONCE at the end of the 30 minute spot, that there is a $50 charge to call .... But to really play Devil's Advocate ... you guys RUNNING somebody else's dialer, are JUST AS STUPID as that poor surfer !!! If all you made from that $75 dollar call was $8 ... you need to take a business course or something ... you are making the person who owns the dialer rich ... while you make almost FUCK ALL !!! WAKE UP !!! I am going to reduce my 60% recurring commission on my affiliate program to 2% if that is the case !!! ------------------ A boneprone Family Member :D

07-25-2001, 12:40 PM	#59
The Hun Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,207	Wolf, we're investigating the 'free' that's advertised... the wording on that needs to be changed.

07-25-2001, 01:39 PM	#61
jonnax Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 187	Mr Hun, In page http://www.thehun.net/webmaster/ you are pushing dialercompany (nocreditcard.com) for webmasters why?

07-25-2001, 03:14 PM	#62
wolfshade Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: The right place Posts: 847	Hun, Don't take this the wrong way as it is not meant to bash you in any way but I have to say this: I frequent your pages often to check the galleries and possibly get some new ideas. Those pages you are now investigating have been posted for months now and only recently you noticed? With all due respect I find that a little hard to believe. Wolfshade ------------------ Wolfshade's Moneymakers Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!! It's the choice of an Adult generation! ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

07-26-2001, 04:17 AM	#64
Hypo So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 1,104	Exxxotica, the only reason you dont feel bad about using dialers is the same reason you dont feel bad about stealing songs off Napster - you have no morals. You probably also use hacked and cracked softare and steal content. If you guys think anyone reads your 1000 word disclaimers, you must be imbeciles. If you really wanted to be honest, you would print the charge in clear bold type on the main software instead of hiding it in some disclaimer you know everyone is used to ignoring. Your argument seems to be that stupid people need to be punished. I havent heard anything weaker than that. Being stupid is less of a sin than being a thief. In that case you guys ought to be paying up more than those guys who were stupid enough to download your leeching dialers. Anyone who uses a dialer would probably be robbing and stealing from people if it were as easy as using a dialer. You know in your heart you are doing the wrong thing, you are only trying to convince yourself otherwise with your feeble arguments.

07-26-2001, 04:36 AM	#65
wolfshade Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: The right place Posts: 847	Hmm? c'mon bone speak up! Say what ya mean and mean what ya say Wolfshade ------------------ Wolfshade's Moneymakers Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!! It's the choice of an Adult generation! ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

07-26-2001, 07:36 AM	#66
wolfshade Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: The right place Posts: 847	Hypo: A few facts: FACT In the first 3 lines on the terms of my dialer it says what it costs per minute. FACT It gets repeated 2 times after that(totalling 3) FACT The user has to click on agree to install it FACT I have customers using my dialers(surfers) that are very happy because the anonymity of the dialer provides them a sense of security and teh knowledge their CC information will not be spread online(It's childlike easy to get CC # and that's a fact too) They feel the added service is worth the charge. So in a Nutshell I would say before you judge you should know what you are talking about. Second If you go to the store and buy a VCR don't read the warranty, break it and discover it's not within the warranty so you have to pay for the repairs. Who's at fault? You for not reading or the supplier? If you get an insurance policy and don't read the fine print only to discover that when your house burns down by lightning it's not covered by it because there is a clause that says natural disasters are not included. Who's at fault you for not reading or the insurance company? Same thing goes for online stuff. We provide the tools to call in at a charge we seem fit to ask. we deliver the means to see the cost open and in plain view. It is the consumers CHOICE not to read or ignore the terms and we as webmasters can NOT be held accountable for that. And that is basically why I feel that the position TGP owners have taken towards dialers is wrong. Wolfshade ------------------ Wolfshade's Moneymakers Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!! It's the choice of an Adult generation! ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

07-27-2001, 01:45 AM	#67
The Hun Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,207	Pretty weak defends Wolf... First of all: dialers are NOT anonimous. A bill for the exact amount of minutes you called will be delivered to your house. If you run the dialer-server yourself you know that in the database of it there's the phonenumber of the person that called (that's a home phonenumber, so you know the exact location and name of the person, even his phonenumber, which is more than you can tell from a creditcard number). Not reading the "small print" is no excuse for dialers that rip people off. Why do you think it's called "small print". It's to stay on the legal side, but at the same time try to hide some things from people in the hope some would not read it. It's putting up a little sign on a streat saying "entering this will get you mugged"... is it fair to hit people that enter anyway for hitting 'em over the head with a club and robbing 'em blind for not reading the sign? Again, I'm not against dialers, and your dialer might change a reasonable sum of money. But when people have to pay 75 USD for a 25 minute call it's a rip-off. And THAT'S what this whole discussion is about!

07-27-2001, 02:32 AM	#69
drumsicle Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: St. Louis Posts: 1,049	I don't even use dialers. Not yet anyway. But I think you do have point Wolfshade. I've known people with a lot of money that don't give a fuck what they spend as long as they get what they want. Some people spend shitloads of money on Dom perignon and fine scotch. Not me, cause it doesn't mean anything to me. If I want alchohol I'll get some cheap beer. Back in my younger days I would pay topdollar for the kind bud. Others thought I was crazy and would only get the cheap mexican shit. What I'm trying to get at is things are worth what people are willing to pay for them. $75 for 25 min. when they could pay $30 for a month of a paysite doesn't necessarily mean anything. People sell water two dollars a bottle. I can walk over to the sink and get all of the water I can stand to drink. I think what's worse is that the customer pays $75 and the webmaster only makes $8 Just my $.02

07-27-2001, 03:51 AM	#70
wolfshade Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: The right place Posts: 847	Amen brother! As far as teh 8 bucks go you have to take into account that maintaining the lines and equipment is very expensive though. it's not all profit(I wish!) Wolfshade ------------------ Wolfshade's Moneymakers Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!! It's the choice of an Adult generation! ICQ#49873955 [email protected]