Why I dont feel bad about using the dialer.
 

This morning I checked my dialer stats.
Some sorry guy stayed on there for 25 minutes! Thats a $75 dollar charge to his phone bill for some shitty porn.

Do I feel bad? Nope! The way I see it...is that the guy was too cheap to purchase a real membership to one of the paysites I sponsor.

Im sure the pervert had a hardon, and was too lazy to pull out his credit card. He probably thought he was going to get some free porn or something.

For $70 he could have had a membership to a quality site for several months. Not only would it have benefited him, but I would have made more money that way. At .35 a minute, I only made $8 off the guy.

Too bad for him, and too bad for me.
I guess you only get out what you put in.

im with you on that one .

another point is if you didnt show him dialers were a scam someone else would have . so u might aswell be the one getting paid

0.35 a min ??? what dialer you use ???
why not use the JesusDialer ? - that way you wouldn't be sorry that the guy used dialer instead of a sign-up http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/wink.gif

I am using the Jesus Dialer.
However, I and all other testers are only being paid .35 a minute because of the beta testing.

When the dialer is released to the general public, .45 will be the standard rate for all USA and International calls.

if i got charge 75$ on my fucking phone bill i'll go nuts and kill that dialer program.

Hey exxotica and that's without mentioning the freeloaders that don't give a dman that you have to pay an arm and a leg for the Bandwidth, webspace and content you feed them on your galleries.

I say smack the freeloaders whenever ya can http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/biggrin.gif

Wolfshade


------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

Sorry, but what a bunch of bullshit... Normally I don't "slander" like this, but the guy wasn't too lazy to grab his creditcard, he most likely SIMPLY DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS GOING TO COST HIM 75 BUCKS... Really, it's real people using the Internet, and NOBODY in their right mind will pay 75 bucks for 25 minutes KNOWING they can get a whole month access for 39 or something. The guy will go nuts when he gets his bill...

Sorry to butt in here... but these paysites have disclaimers and adhere to them, if the surfer doesn't read the rules then they are not held responsible so why should a dialer be held to any different standards?

This double standard thing beteen dialers and paysites is really getting out of hand. One charges more than the other, so what?

They ALL, when it comes down to it, have disclaimers and I see no difference in one from the other except they methods of payment and the cost of the service. The disclaimer is there for a reason and it is not my job nor yours to see they read it, we put it there and it becomes THEIR jobs to read it.

Just MY 2 cents worth...... http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif



------------------
May the Force Be With YOU!!
Up to $0.80 a minute!!Also taking broker apps!
You too can be Vectorized!!

The Hun: I just looked at your site clicked on one of your avertisers banners and got a full page add for a dialer. You might not push dialers yourself but you do have advertisers that do.

Then maybee next time he will read things a bit closer...(if he can read) and maybee this will be a lesson for him to pay for some fuckin porn.

no matter what, a horny guy isnt going to read a 1 page disclaimer with a hard on. Tough shit for the being a male. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

We are working on a dialer program that will fix this scenario and will totally kick ass......when you add a disclaimer in 4pt print it is being tricky, no one can say otherwise.....

No, his mom and dad are gonna flip when they get the phone bill... lol

No that is the excuse they are gonna try and hand ME whenever they call me and say that they didn't do this........ and yes, WE handle those calls in house too..... and it's not been near as bad as you would think. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/tongue.gif

Tam

------------------
May the Force Be With YOU!!
Up to $0.80 a minute!!Also taking broker apps!
You too can be Vectorized!!

So your the one I talked to Tam.

thehun does like not dialers one little
bit and I think you could talk to him until
your blue in the face and not change his mind
one iota

Am sure thehun your endeavors as to dialers
are not being wasted.

What I need to know though how in the hell do you protect someone that is dumber than a ROCK because that's what they are if they use a dialer.

I would not put one on my pages for a long time, but thought surly people are not that dumb. They are and it's not
that they don't know the consequence they do.

So they can go to one of my page's and just
dial and dial until there little heart is
100% content.

People have to be responsible for there actions. But there are Ohhh so many people that do not think they should.

Jim

When you objectify someone you can do anything to them. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/frown.gif

When you have a credit card you should take the responsibility for the use of it.
But I think 75$ for 25min. is SICK.
It's just SICK.
Okay you can't blame anyone because it's in the disclaimer but everybody knows that nobody reads them.
Normal paysites make it very clear how much it will cost you.
Most dialers hide the real costs.

In my eyes the dialers will be gone from the internet soon if it goes on like this.

My 75$

My dialer stats were on zero for a couple of days, and yesterday I logged in, guess what:
60.08 min long call from Germany!
LOL! What the hell did that guy do??
A Nympho perhaps? http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/biggrin.gif


------------------
I want Jenna's Heartbreaker Tattoo closeup.
1024x768 and that's final!

Some dialer programs ruin a paying customer for the honest folks. Who can blame a person that has been burned by a scam for NOT whipping out his credit card again when an honest paysite comes along?

Okay, I tried to open a dialer program when they first came out, but due to internal problems, it just didn't work back then, but I gotta say, and I think there's a lot of people that feel this way...

<RANT>
WHY THE FUCK DO I HAVE TO PROTECT THE SURFER?!?!? That jerk is out at these free sites getting all the free porn he can jerk off to, and I don't have a problem with any of the freesites,they serve a very good purpose, but since when am I responsible for some idiot who doesn't read the rules? Now if the dialer said it was free like they used to, I could understand that, that's fucked up, but you have to say okay like 3 times before it works...

I think it's rediculous that some people in this industry think it our responsibility to coddle the surfer like he was our own kid. If mommy and daddy didn't give him enough damn sense to read the fine print, then it's his and his wallets damn problem.

Am I being rediculous? Who cares if he's pissed? If he gets on one of those chat lines for 4.95 a minute late one night while he's alone, and talks to some chick, and jerks off for an hour, is it her fault?

The problem with society is that nobody takes any damn responsobility for their own actions anymore. They blame shit on their childhoods, society, hell we even get blamed because we peddle porn. It's about time we stood up and said "By fucking God I am the dumbfuck that even though it said 7.95 a minute, THREE TIMES, I still clicked okay THREE TIMES, and now I gotta come up with 75 bucks to pay for it! because it's the right thing to do."

Sorry, but this discussion has been going on way too long, with the same lame arguments, and it's time it ended, because if used right, dialers can be a very good product and resource for addition income from outside the US.
</RANT>

PEACE!

------------------
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Ass Kicking Adult Website Design

Hun,

First of all you are expresing an opinion that's not slander IMHO http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/wink.gif

But since you decided to join in on this thread maybe we can have a meaningful discussion on this topic?

My take on the matter is this:

Just like a few days ago I asked yoru opinion about my new nodialer proggy and you said you would not accept ads for it on galleries.

This is a simular thing. Upon install of a dialer or my nodialer for that matter people are presented with a full set of terms of agreement which they must accept in order for the install to go through.

So I ask again where is the dialer/nodialer at fault? It explains clearly what it does, and what it costs(in the case of the nodialer it says it ads bookmarks)

Now when signing up for a site using your CC you also get a full set of terms. If the surfer does not read it and then complains because he didn't cancel after one month s got rebilled it's the company at fault?

Realy except for the amount charged I see no difference.

I think it's not to much to ask of a surfer to read the bloody terms they are not there to make the site look good they are there for a reason: to inform the customer of what he/she is doing.

Please explain to me where my way of thinking is at fault?

Wolfshade


------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

pensfan,

Amen your right on the mark.
I agree with you 100%, we have at least
two generation's, the parents and the kids
that do not think they are reasonable for there actions.

Shit in the USA for years now in the schools
if Johnnie doesn't feel good about his grade
all he has to do is complain and he'll get a better one.

I understand though alot of people
just can not or will not hear of it.

That people are reasonable for there actions.

thehun you need to give up webmastering and go into some kind of charity work, you'd be very good at it. Heck with the success you've
had with the yellowpages am sure all the world would be reading about your good deed's

Oh well, I'll not bother submitting to thehun
again.

Jim




[This message has been edited by jimmyf (edited 07-24-2001).]

you may not feel bad..

that guys that gonna find out the the surprising the $70 dollar charged to his credit card is gonna do a WHOIS on your DOMAIN and he gonna get you! It could happen http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

tony

A whois will reveal that I live in France.

Anyways...he should feel good about helping out a hardworking Adult Webmaster.

lol.. i was kidding man http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

bandwidth cost money.. these freeloaders must need to know!

good job http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by whoreans (edited 07-24-2001).]

Hm..
I guess a buck can make one justify about anything.
Everyone knows it's SCAM but everyone says it's all right cause there were TERMS on the page.

What a bullshit.

Hmmm...

I'm trying to see the scam here... Surfer downloads software to access porn because he doesn't have a credit card, or doesn't want anyone to know he's doing it, surfer says I don't care that it costs me 6.95 a minute, I want some action! Surfer clicks okay to ALL the warnings, enjoys his porn, jerks off, and falls asleep. Gets his bill, and says OOOOOH They scammed me! It's all bullshit, and whether it's an outrageous price or not, doesn't matter, because at the time he or she agreed to the terms. Man what a scam!

------------------
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Ass Kicking Adult Website Design

I don't use dialers myself, but just my 2 cents here: $75 for 25 minutes ain't bad. Unless Exxxotica's got his math wrong, that's cheaper than most phone sex lines.

Sure they'd get a lot better deal if they bought a membership somewhere but I don't know if that's our responsibility to explain.

[This message has been edited by Warphead (edited 07-24-2001).]

OK I just visitied The Hun's Yellow pages and I have a question:


After viewing a few galleries I came to one promoting the "Napster of porn" Promising lots and lots of free porn content and takes you to an Freenet pass signup form.

Well everybody knows that with a FNP pass you get a trial membership and will be billed so it's not realy free.

Now I on the other hand advertise a program on my galleries that promises free porn, delivers free porn and ads a few bookmarks, but informs the user of this before installing.

How can you justify listing a scam like that and then talking like this about dialers?

Am I missing something or is this a clear double standard?

I once received an email from you about a gallery saying no misleading ads please but I see that Napster of porn thingy at least 20 times on your site.

Therefor I am going to ask you the same question I asked Zilla a while ago:

Don't the rules apply to everytbody Hun? or are some more equal then others?

Sure I understand running a site the size yours has is hard. And therefor some bad seeds can slip throuh the cracks, but 20 times? Therefor I think my arguments are valid and I am very interested to hear your reply.

My 2 cents a minute

Wolfshade


------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

P.S. Let's not turn this into a bash The Hun/TGP's thread because I would like this to be a true discussion not a pissing match.

Wolfshade


------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

pensfan and jimmyf,
You are both right on. Nothing is anybody's fault anymore, it's always "the other guy" or "society" or "environment" or the best one "TV"'s fault for whatever horrendous behavior little Johnny or little Suzie (or even the bigger versions of both) exhibit.
Schools don't teach anything worthwhile, either. 2 things on TV from when I first moved to California a year and a half ago still stick with me and gnaw at me. The first was a commercial that was touting some kind of political "victory for the children" that said since so many kids were unable to pass high school, they lowered the standards for graduation. The second was one pleading "with people" about how we needed to make it easier for illegal immigrants to sneak into our country because they were now "having" to risk their lives to sneak over here. When I was a kid, you were held accountable for every little thing you did and your parents actually expected you to learn something at school. I blame the government for this overall decline by making it neccessary for both parents to work full time (or single parents work 2 jobs) leaving their children to be raised by babysitters and/or the TV, and most importantly for being in control of what the youth of today (and yesterday and tomorrow) are being taught in the schools. We are raising a nation of idiots who have no idea what the 4th of July is about, that the US was ever at war with Germany and Japan, or can even FIND the US on a map! The big thing that they know nothing about, though, is the Constitution. When the citizens don't know their rights, how can they be expected to fight for them? Especially against the government.

What's that got to do with a fucking dialer? LOL!

SR... 100% right

Exxx, you wrote: "Then maybee next time he will read things a bit closer...(if he can read) and maybee this will be a lesson for him to pay for some fuckin porn."... There won't be a next time. You took 75 USD from this guy and he will NEVER pay for online porn again.

People indeed have to be protected. An honest business will always work best in the long run. People don't mind spending money if they get their money's worth. And that trust has to be built up. Once that has been accomplished I'm sure people will spend way more than 75 USD on-line. Might be over a pretty long time-span. But you can be assured that Exxxotica turned this visitor into the "freeloader" that everybody seems to be so scared off. You're ruining your own business people!!

Pensfan: "WHY THE FUCK DO I HAVE TO PROTECT THE SURFER?!?!? That jerk is out at these free sites getting all the free porn he can jerk off to, and I don't have a problem with any of the freesites,they serve a very good purpose, but since when am I responsible for some idiot who doesn't read the rules? Now if the dialer said it was free like they used to, I could understand that, that's fucked up, but you have to say okay like 3 times before it works..."

Bullshit. Where do you think to long-term members come from?! One little piece of math: I'd much rather take 1 cent from every surfer in the world then 75 USD for anybody who doesn't read disclaimers. Everybody knows 25 minutes of view porn for 75 USD is a rip-off. I hear people use the disclaimer to justify ripping people off. Honestly, how many of you read the disclaimer MicroSoft showed when you installed windows?! Nobody, I'm sure. 75 USD for 25 minutes is ripping someone off and turning him into someone that is NEVER going to pay again and most likely telling his friends what happened. THAT'S the reason why so many people complain sales are down. People are ripped off. We're running businesses here. Try to treat people the way you would like to be treated. People are not afraid to pay, why else would I still make money from bannersales. But when people are ripped off they will never pay again.

Ok,

2 things:

1) Why are you dodging my questions as you didn't answer 1 of em?

2) If I analise your post I can't help but wonder why you keep posting free AVS galleries as they kill the surfers trust also(at least the way you see it, I have a different opinion) I mean offering a free service and then billing them anyway for a trial membership and pray they forget to cancell should not be to honest in your book also? Yet I see galleries listed like that all the time on the Yellow pages.

Therefor I think it is save to asume that by listing that type of ads on galleries you help killing this business just as much as the next guy, only you're killing the CC business(the word CHARGEBACK comes to mind)

Please do comment as like I said before do not intend to pick on you or bash you. But I do feel it is important to have discussions like this.

Impatiently waiting for your reply,

Wolfshade


------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

Im not an ass kisser, but the hun has a very strong point.

I have yet to remove the dialers from my site but unlike before I am understaning why so many tgp owners are against them.

Ive preached quality quality quality many times here at GFY, and have spoke out against popups, autobookmarkers, and exit consoles more than I can remember.

If the surfer truely is tricked into loading this dialer do doubt it is hurting, if not killing potential future buyers of porn... No Doubt..

But I guess Im in self denial right now assuming that the people who use my dialer are more impulsive rather than "tricked" to use my dialer. Im sure that a percentage of my surfers are tricked into using it, but Im trying to find the difference between this and joining an actual "normal" pay site where they are also "tricked" into the recurring monthly billing.

Surely most people never intend to be rebilled every month at 39.95 every month after paying only 4.95 for a trial.


If one finds using the dialer as wrong or a trick technique that destroys the trust the surfer has for future purchases, how does the dynamics of recurring billing not fall into this catagory? Did American Express have a legitamate complaint, or were they over reacting when they pulled out of the porn site arena saying that porn sites primary function is to "trick" the surfer into a cycle of unwanted monthy billing..

If we really wanted to make things perfect for the surfer, dont just get rid of the dialer get rid of recurring billing.

How would you all like that?
No more 30.00 per sign-up? It would go down to 5.00 or less. Partnership programs would not exist, or would not be worth the trouble, and the industry would not be nearly as rich as it is now.

Aw C'mon hun respond I would realy like this discussion it would be meaningfull http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/wink.gif

Wolfshade


------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

Again, and I don't want to get into some stupid pissing match, because that's not my style, but why do I have to worry about whether a surfer reads the disclaimer or not? Sales are not down because of the dialer, sales are down because every jackoff and his brother(me and my brother included) think they're gonna get into this business, see women naked, and make a fortune in a month, so they give away an assload of FREE pictures, because they have no clue how to SELL a surfer, their bandwidth goes through the roof, and then they get the bright idea, HEY let's open a paysite! Now you have 80,000 paysites, which may have great designs(thanks to guys like me) but the inside is CRAP, and the surfers join, see the crap inside, and then they are leary of joining paysites.

I admit there are a lot of questionable ways to promote the dialer, but how can you seriously say that because you didn't read the disclaimer that it's not your fault? Do you think Microsoft would give you back your money, or pay compensation, if their disclaimer said this program will blow up your computer, fuck you in the ass, and make your wife divorce you, and you said oh I never read disclaimers! You tricked me! What's the purpose in a disclaimer anyways?

But hey that's just my opinion, and I know from experience that it will probably not change anyone elses.

Later!

------------------
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Ass Kicking Adult Website Design

Pensfan I agree completely.

In fact I totally agree that TGP's and other traffic resources should make it a rule that dialerads are only allowed if advertised as any other type of sponsor(E.G. textlinks/banners, buttons etc...) but to ban dialers as a whole is just stupid and wrong IMHO.

As for the other statements and opinions expressed here you can find my thoughts on it here: http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/...ML/006076.html

Wolfshade


Wolfshade

------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

[This message has been edited by wolfshade (edited 07-25-2001).]

Ok I'll say this again.

thehun does like not dialers one little
bit and I think you could talk to him until
your blue in the face and not change his mind
one iota.

Ok unless I read wrong thehun
does not think.

That people are reasonable for there actions.

Jim

Jimmy I would lik ethe chance to go into discussion with him(I don't see blue in the face easy http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/wink.gif ) But he keeps dodging my (IMHO valid) questions.

Wolfshade


------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

wolfshade,

thehun has what's commonly referred to
as R/C. IMHO http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/wink.gif

R/C = Resistance to Change, you see this more in us older people's. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/biggrin.gif http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/biggrin.gif

I thought he was in his late 20s or early 30s.
I wasn't aware he was my age or older. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/biggrin.gif

Jim

Resistance to change should not blind people for the truth

Make a dialer and ya get whacked for the charges.

Make a free proggy and you get Whacked for the bookmarks.

There is no pleasing em!

Wolfshade


------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

I gotta comment on one thing...

"There won't be a next time. You took 75 USD from this guy and he will NEVER pay for online porn again"

Who's to say that this person won't buy a membership? He most likely got the dialer from a free site, so maybe next time he will feel safer buying a membership? I mean surfers might get the idea if they buy from a company that they won't be screwed.

TheMan

if you did not feel bad you would not be asking us! just so we can say its o.k you robed some dum guy

How many times did any of you buy something at a store that once ripped you off. How many of you are pushing sponsors that have ripped you off in the past? How many off you are pushing sponsors that are known to rip people off (like cyberthrill casino's for example). Non. Why not? 'cause you feel ripped off.

Wolfshade, I thought you were smarter. First of all you're asking about another program that is advertised on galleries listed by me. That was not the question. One bad thing doesn't make another right. After your mail here I decided not to write about this here, but to take action. We're working on this problem with FAP. And before blacklisting 'em I want to see if things can be worked out. Just as with the dialers.

Free porn didn't kill this industry. If this were true nobody would click on my banners and nobody would sign up. And then nobody would buy bannerspots on my site, I wouldn't make money and I would go broke in a heartbeat. Well, the way things are going I won't go broke. Why? Don't know. But not because free porn doesn't allow room for paid sites.

A dialer downloaded that charges 75 dollars for a 25 minute call will make the caller feel ripped off. Simple as that. I would feel ripped off. For 75 dollars you can get an layed in a whorehouse. Condoms included. It's a rediculous rate for a 25 minute visit to a paysite. An honest dialer would have cut access after 20-30 bucks with a prompt saying it would be cheaper to sign up by credit card now. I'm not flat against dialers. I'm flat against ripping people off. A dialer can be PERFECT for previews. If a paysite doesn't deliver what they offer you don't have to sign up. In the Netherlands dialers charge 75 cents maximum. Still NoCreditcard has numbers in the Nethernads. Club Seventeen seems to be doing great with their liveshows through the dialer. At 75 cents a minute. Very fair price. Not a rip-off. And a perfect solution for on-line payments.

I think it's kind of sad to see people insinuate I would be against change and dialers altogether. One thing: someone who doesn't change doesn't hold on in this industry for 8 years. 'nuf said about that.

Dialers are no problem. AVS's are no problem (though an AVS that gives away "free" passes which is a 3 day preview deserves investigating, which is going on right now).

Any company that doesn't deliver what it promises, or overcharges what they deliver will go broke. Doesn't matter if it's the real world or the Internet, it will go broke. I am 100% certain (and I think nobody in their right mind could argue with this) that any paysite would rather hear 'emselves mention in some bartalk about their good content (and it happens) instead of being in a similar talk about a 75 dollar charge for 25 minutes access... And there are dialers that charge even more...

Good porn costs money. Better porn costs more money. But no on-line porn is justified at 75 dollars for 25 minutes, which is what my comments were about. Give people what they expect. Charge people a fair amount for what they're getting. THAT will make you money in the long run.

I agree with that!!
Of course all paysites use some tricks to make extra bucks.
But some sites charge just an insane amount of money.
40$ to have a month access to good porn for a whole month isn't bad.
75$ for 25 minutes is as bad as it can be.

How would you feel if you enter a bar and the bartender offers you a beer and tells you it's free.
And when you leave the bar there's a guy stopping you and tells you you have to pay 25$ for the beer.
It's on the signs he says.

Ok I'll be the nitwit to stand up and say I read the MS Disclaimer.... I read ALL disclaimers.... if you've ever been near me when I am setting up a new program, it takes me forever because I always read those damn things. I do it with everything I buy anywhere. LOL

Hun.. let me just say this straight up before I go any further....... I admire your convictions and your steadfast beliefs and the fact that you don't change your views or opinions because of anyone or anything. That is a very admirable trait in anyone, and I love ya for it. So don't think for one minute that I am bashing you or saying you are wrong..... one is never wrong for thier beliefs and the ability to stand up for them.

Ok having said this, and I have some pretty strong beliefs on this as well, and I am not going to be swayed. I used to feel the same way you did, babe.... I hated the damn things and nothing or no one was about to change my mind for no amount of money. BUT I worked and worked and sweated and worked even harder and no matter what I did, all I was doing was giving this porn away and not making a damn dime off of it. I am not as big as you so I can't sell adspace or be happy with 1 cent from every surfer who visits my site, if I did that, I'd still be unable to pay my bills with just my sites alone...... I don't have near the traffic on ANY of my sites combined to do that. SOOOO, I have to make it where I can so I can pay my bills.

I don't market things as free like some if they aren't indeed free..... I don't post the costs no, but neither do you, I'd be willing to bet...... It's not our job to tell them how much it costs, it's theirs to ask how much it is going to cost them. I don't walk into a store and just buy something without first asking how much it costs... if I do then this is my own stupidity and not the stores, right?

Neither do I hide behind my disclaimer..... I give them the tools, if they choose not to use these tools then how am I at fault for their not using them? I can't be all things to all people...... however, I don't lie and cheat them either...... I tried to run a cj site once and I felt bad about the popups because I hate the damn things myself so I shut it down.

I totally believe and agree that we have to take some responsibility, but at what point does THEIR responsibility come into this? They are adults, and if they aren't then they have parents who are and it's that parent's responsibility to take in teaching their kids right from wrong..... am I right here?

If everyone that had a product to sell worried about the buyer then no one would ever make a dime...... and I sincerely believe this.... we can take responsibility only so far and the rest is up to the buyer here...... I think it's called Buyer Beware......

That guy that paid the $75 for the 25 minutes of pleasure? No one has asked him if he was ok with it...... maybe he was, who knows? Or maybe he wasn't!! At any rate, it was HIS choice to make, not ours. We make our own choices in life and who am I to tell him his choices are right or wrong, just it is not my place to tell you that the choices you yourself make are wrong. At the same I make my own choices. I choose to sell dialers, you don't. It's all cool, I respect you for your decisions not to and I would hope you respect my decisions to sell them.

Yeah yeah yeah.... I am shutting up now. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

Tam

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May the Force Be With YOU!!
Up to $0.80 a minute!!Also taking broker apps!
You too can be Vectorized!!

SR.... it's those ones that tell you it's going to be free that piss me off....... and I don't care if the Hun himself signed up with me........ ok we all know he won't.... I use him as an example because he has more traffic than anyone I know...... but say he signed up with me.... and I caught him selling MY dialer as free, I'd shut his ass down in a New York Minute..... I am not one to say, "Well you are huge and make me tons of cash, ok you can use the word free" I have seen people do this and I frankly don't care if you are GOD, if you are "selling" my dialer as free, I'll have your ass shut down, and trust me, I am so into every site my dialer is run on...... if I see it, they are down........ and I also don't let them keep running it til I make some cash, they are shut down NOW!!!!

I was once asked if I thought someone should be shut down because they produce alot of minutes and are using the word free, and I told them hell YES!!!!!! That is blatant lying and cheating and while they represent MY company, it will NOT be tolerated. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/wink.gif

And like it or not, anyone using my dialer is representing my company and I want it run as such.... honestly... it may cost them a fortune but it is honest, we don't buy into lying and cheating at all.

Tam

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May the Force Be With YOU!!
Up to $0.80 a minute!!Also taking broker apps!
You too can be Vectorized!!

Tam, valid points. You will never hear may say to anybody that he can't use dialers. That's everybody's own decision. I do however have control over what is listed on my site... But you already know that ;-)

I am very stong with my opinion on these things though. Especially when it comes to unfair amounts of money. 25 minutes charged at 75 USD is a high price. Indeed in this particular case the guy knew what he was paying. But I think it's not a blind bet to doubt that (funny to realise this guy has no idea what discussions his 25 minute call had). If dialers were clear about what they'd cost I wouldn't object at all. If a paysite wants to charge 100 USD for access to their site for a month and it's clear that people have to pay the 100 USD the throught of not liking it wouldn't even occur to me. In an honest world I would assume that site has exceptionally good content. With the name the Internet is starting to have (and you hear that everywhere) many people would think it's a rip-off...