Free trip to LA to sit face-to-face to you ? AND have it video taped?

I'm down!

I *LOVE* industry ego's

nysus- nice smoke screen trying to debate cross-sells instead of admitting you were just purely offended and over reacted. you push people's buttons and then they might just say something that bugs you.

you assume all surfers are incredibly stupid? the terms and conditions check box is Not pre-checked. The whole process requires affirmative action and the majority of people who purchase pre-checked cross sells use their user/pwd at the purchased site. surfers are more skeptical and less stupid than you give them credit for imho.

A lot rings true in your post.

While I don't think all surfers are incredibly stupid, I think a lot of them are when it comes to our business and the purchase of an online membership. From day one, I have always told my people that you have to design our sites with the the least intelligent surfer in mind. It sucks, but in this business, you really do have to cater to the lowest common denominator.

While you are technically correct that a majority of people use the u/p on pre-checked cross sells, I personally have found that it is a slight majority. We did an analysis of two sites that used pre-check cross sells about a year and a half ago...while this study was in no means sicentific..here is what we found:

61% of pre-checked cross sell u/p's were used. To me, the important figure is NOT that 61% were used, but that 39% were never used.

Of the 61% that were used, the average time between join and cancel was 4 days.

The scariest part of our study? We asked SEVERAL sites if we could do this analysis and there were only TWO that even had the ability to look at this, most didn't have a clue.

It is my opinion that the practice of pre-checked cross sells is similair to the car dealer adding under carriage rust protection without specifically spelling that out at time of purchase.

Just my opinion. I also think that I should make clear that I don't believe that all companies who use pre-checked cross sells are out to con the consumer. Many have excellent customer service and a no questions asked refund policy. The sad truth is that there are quite a few who are using it as an easy way to fuck the consumer. I was at a site the other day that didn't even have a box, simply small fine print that told them that if they didnt cancel the bonus memberships, they would be charged $39.95 a month. If I remember correctly, they were getting BONUS memberships at 3 other sites. If they didn't cancel within 24 hours, their first month charge was in excess of $125 on a $19.95 join. Now that should be illegal. If I remember the site, I will post it here.

My two cents.

>I was at a site the other day that didn't even have a box, simply small fine print that told them that if they didnt cancel the bonus memberships, they would be charged $39.95 a month. If I remember correctly, they were getting BONUS memberships at 3 other sites. If they didn't cancel within 24 hours, their first month charge was in excess of $125 on a $19.95 join. Now that should be illegal. If I remember the site, I will post it here.


That is bad :( and going to far. On the other hand a pre checked cross sale that is easily identifiable isn't the worst of what is going on..... this is hurting no one expect the ones too lazy to read terms and conditions.

Matt,

I wouldn't be debating something this hard especially if I encouraged it.

"Of course I'm going to be around and benefitting from pre-checked cross-sales, most everyone in this industry currently is.

So of I'm going to make money through them while I need to I will because it is a means to an end."


But at the same time you have said:


"Throughout the rest of this thread I have been questioning the morals of pre-checked cross-sales. I don't agree with them"

"Exploitation isn't ethical, yet it happens, and it's quite common, doesn't mean it's the best thing."


If they are that bad, practice what you preach. When you say you participate in cross sales, is it because you have no other choice?

I respect people that say what they do and do what they say. If you are so determined that they are so bad be an example, and make changes and maybe others will follow. (I wouldn't be pinpointing someone like Chris though on an industry standard no matter how bad my feelings got hurt)

:2 cents:

If it was something really bad like CP or something similiar, I would no matter who it was, but not over something like cross sells.

:2 cents:

Nysus... honestly... lighten up... your moral crusade makes you sound like John Ash*roft.... btw .. Chris' quote would make a great for a great sig line :)

:1orglaugh True!

You are a fool, who probably works in a cubical in a office. What do you do? All the big players on this board are very clear what their businesses are. They dont hide and call everyone children which is the first sign of a child. If you were once a big player it was luck you were in the right place at the right time because if you were the real deal you wouldnt be going back and forth with us little people. never talking any business just here to bust balls.

Very good point :thumbsup

morals vs business

I think morals should be used to make more money

that's what business is all about, it has nothing to do with morals, it has to do with how much you can make and how much power you can weild.

The power and profit ultimately come from the consumer, so you run your business in a way that allows you to profit the most, and keep profiting on a consistant basis.

If your "business morals" aren't right.. it will show in your profits.

Do I agree that unchecked cross sales are immoral? First you have to tell me what the profit margin is compared to checked cross sales, taking into account charge backs.

Bringing your own morals and emotion into business are foolish.. considering how other people's morals affect your business is wise

Been a long day. I'll make one long ass reply tomorrow sometime, all will be cleared..

G'night all.

Matt

did he answer the question ?? :Graucho

I had some dealings with them over something, and let me tell you they are a 100% class act. The person was (don't know if she want's her name posted) was very very professional, I can't say enough good about them. :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

son, small brained xclowns like yourself aren't the people I talk business with.
As I've explained to you before, thinking that my success and your lack there of is based on luck only identifies why you are where you are and I'm where I am.:1orglaugh


oh, and I'm not hiding from anyone. There's not a big player in this biz who doesn't know what I do.
sad for you you've admitted to not knowing what I do.:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh ... um... you might be a tiny bit off there, darling.

...still... :1orglaugh