I'm not trying to impress anyone, let alone you. Your only business model seems to be trying to part people from their money to invest in your schemes. You need some growing up to do before you start attacking others :2 cents:

JFK, care to elaborate?
My days of keeping track of the antics of two bit punks is long gone.

apparently, in underage fantasy land, the truth is invalid.:1orglaugh

Cross-sales are a GREAT opportunity for increasing revenues.

Why pre-checked though?

Provide something that entices the surfer to check the box and want the cross-sale; such as LightspeedCash.com does. They provide a quality product, and offer the cross-sale of another quality product which they allow you to view and browse beforehand and THEN check it if they want to accept the offer.

Cross-sales aren't manditory, but why do they make them Pre-checked? Why not leave them unchecked? Why not? Because surfers don't uncheck them, don't cancel, a % allow the rebill but cancel, and a % don't chargeback.

If they left them unchecked their revenues would go down because what they offer isn't worth what they charge (in their cross-sales).

Solution? Offer cross-sales surfers would want. You'll actually make more money because you'll retain them as well.

Matt

I made a proposal to JFK where I'd develop FubarWebmasters.com further by having a commenting system per picture, rating system, and ability for users to submit their own photos into convention areas for others to browse and comment on; create a community, in exchange for a % ownership.

The community would increase webmaster returns and create interactivity that doesn't currently exist on his site.

Good try 12clicks at trying to find dirt on me, but it just backfired.

Matt

What's your purpose of continuing to refer to underage?

Matt

I am stealing this expression and there is nothing you can do... that is funny as Hell :Buck:

if I want to try and find dirt on you I'll wait for the GFY search page to come back up and type in "Nysus + underage"

But please no cross sales on the join page :1orglaugh

It amazes me how some people on here continue to dig their grave.

Matt

You should choose your enemies more carefully.

Yikes, now I'm scared! your mom agree to co-sign the lawsuit?:1orglaugh

Cross-sales are fine, pre-checked cross-sales aren't honest - of course that is my opinion though others who are respected agree with me.

I'm not on a lone-crusade here - if you think I am, you need to wake up.

Matt

Keep joking, it makes you a bigger joke.

Matt

keep making threats, it makes you and your mom a bigger joke.:1orglaugh

If you knew who my friends are that support me, you'd realize I don't care who my enemies are. :)

Matt

LOL. Put your head on straight please if you want to participate in this thread.

Matt

Translation: the kids at school don't know who epoch is either.

How would you know what retains and makes money, how many years of experience managing adult webmaster programs do you have? Could you please post a number such as X.Y years of experience?

How would you know what % of CBs stem from consumer & webmaster fraud and what % is related to cross sales & unhappy consumers?

What do you actually do in this industry when you're not making yourself look like a complete moron fucking around with the CEO of a billion dollar company?

Nysus, seriosuly, I understand your point, but this thread really can make you enemies if anything.

Cross sales are part of this industry as for today, just as the whole recurring process is.

This is how we ( the industry ) make money now.

Surely, it's *theoretically* possible that cross sales or rebills will be f.e banned by the credit card companies in porn transations.
But then the WHOLE industry will have to change.

Nowadays, if an affiliate program decided to be suddenly far more surfer friendly, they would have to lower payouts and would lose webmasters and as a result make less money.

And everyone is here for the $$$$.

I don't have more knowledge than you, but this is my understanding of the situation. :2 cents:

your friends don't hold any weight if they can't process and why are they not posting to help your crusade?
I don't know you but I think Rick was right when he said choose your enemies carefully!
like I always say don't burn any bridges in this biz you never know when you will need them in the future.

It starts to get old when people think they know how you should run your business, I know I get tired of hearing it on the boards myself sometimes.
If you?re not happy with the business decisions companies make take action and start your own processing or sites that retain etc..
There is a reason why most processors have gone out of business and why ccbill and Paycom own probably over 80% of the market. Chris is a very intelligent man who I trust knows what he?s doing otherwise the company would have folded by now.

There is also a reason why 90% of the sponsors who have been in the business over 5 years all have basically the same thing. Until you have history with hard facts and numbers don?t presume you know or make assumptions
:2 cents:

Logic and common sense and information.

I know programs / webmasters will make more money at the POINT OF SALE by having pre-checked cross-sales, I'm not disputing that.

I'm attacking the morals of it.

Matt

Yup, I agree fully.

I'd prefer change though. I'd be happy if people that choose to play with their surfers / livelihood had less revenue from pre-checked cross-sales.

Pre-checked cross-sales being disallowed would force programs to produce higher and higher quality product which would increase their revenues.

It'll eventually happen. :)

Matt

Awesome - I'm glad that you're offering constructive criticism! :)

I agree with you as well.

I'm not presuming things.

As I have posted earlier, programs WILL make more revenue at the first POINT OF SALE if they have pre-checked cross-sales.

You can't say I'm making assumptions, it's fact, which is why everyone does it.

I'm questioning / attacking the morals behind it.

Edit: Who ever said my friends can't process for themselves? And why do people post or not post? Business. They don't want to burn bridges / business relationships. I however don't care about burning any bridges with people who don't care about the questionable moral practices of pre-checked cross-sales.

This crusade is simply to create awareness. Just because things are a certain way, doesn't mean they need to stay or will stay, and doesn't mean "just accept them" - of course anyone making large amounts of money off of it will of just "just accept them."

Matt

It's obvious you have no clue what makes programs money and what doesn't make programs money - both short- and longterm. Furthermore you have not the slightest idea of which US card regulations do allow what billing practices under what circumstances.

You assume things (high quality content makes more money, treat surfers like this and they will come back etc., opt-in cross sales make more money through higher recurring) based on what you *think* is correct. You have nothing to back up any of your claims.

You're a complete joke.

Nysus, I am not sure what you are hoping to accomplish in this thread. Chris posted to clear up some open issues in the other thread, he then took some time to answer questions while he could have directed questions to somebody else.

In any case, It is nice to see executives that take an active role when it comes to customer support; even though, it really is debatable if it is productive.

I have to agree with Rick, Matt.....we sometimes ask ourselves around my office "is this the hill we want to die on?"......I think you picked the wrong hill but that's your perrogative.

I just want to make one point.....you have made the basis of your argument morals which I, *personally*, think is baseless. At this point it is like an opinion and when you post your opinion you need to be ready for people to post theirs back. When you attack someone it should be with facts and not with opinions/morals because everyones morals/opinions are not necessarily the same as yours. I get emails and phone calls all the time telling me that I have NO MORALS because I host "all that pornographic stuff" and it is usualy followed by the caller telling me that I am going to "burn in hell". They do this because in their opinion it is morally wrong for any of us to be putting out Adult Entertainment Web Sites. So, who's morals are right and just? Mine? Theirs? Yours?

Now with that said, let me add that Chris Mallick is one of my best friends. I would rank him in the Top 5 Brightest Minds in our industry (and would be hard pressed not to make him Top 2). He is smart, innovative, and yes, profitable. If I were you I would take him up on his offer to meet.....if you would like me to be there I would happily be there. I have never had a single conversation with Chris where I did not learn something.....and you would too.

Oh, and by the way, I dont make any money off of cross sales....not a penny.

I like you, Matt...you know that....and I respect your right to say whatever you think....but ask yourself.....is this the hill you want to die on?



--T

:1orglaugh

I agree prechecked cross sales depend on the surfer not paying attention. Which is more often then not. Adult will always be this way because its the make the quick buck theory and no long term thinking.

Nice T ........ I was wondering if you were aware of what was going on ?

Checked crosssales are not cool. If I buy a toaster at Walmart and find out they also sold me a blender from Target on a pre checked cross sale, I missed, I call my CC compnay and charge back. I too enjoy the money i make so i am not sure I want it go away but long term this should be resolved.

OH stop please we all know what is morally right and wrong its not a opinion. Also I have a real problem with this idea we work in porn so that means we dont have to have morals and ethics. Business is business duping the customer is bad for business because a customer who has been burned by cross sales. Is a customer who may never join another site again. Once again no one thinks long term.

You're confusing business tactics of trying to look good infront of IBill clients with being active customer support. It's a clever swing on his part I must say. :)

Matt

I find it rather Ironic that One of the people Nysus refered to , who makes money with cross sells, was also asked to invest the same money in one of Nysuses infallable money making schemes.:1orglaugh

It's like it's always been - try to screw the users as fucking much as possible.

I agree with your morals.

:2 cents:

Why did you quote me to talk about him?

If people make the decision to dislike me because I'm moral - then I'm OKAY with that. So what, people know me as being moral and actually making a statement. I'd say that's a good thing - but that's just my perrogative. :)

As tony404 posted, your argument of morals being baseless and not mattering speaks volumes of whoever believes that.

AND - I'm not attacking anyone - I'm attacking pre-checked cross-sales. If people take offense to that then "that's their perrogative" but more so, it states that their morals are opposite of mine to the specific issue.

Once again, if people decide to dislike me because of taking this moral stand-point then that's their decision, as inappropriote as it may be.

Okay, I do respect what you say so I will think about taking up his offer to meet then and would be great to have your / other view points in the room, though I'd not want to go alone; would be slightly careless of me. :)

And not to question your friendship with him, but everyone knows that people befriend people who are in the same financial and mental capacity, which is why you're friends. :)

With the final comment, you're making the assumption that I'm going to be dying on a hill because of this.

If someone chooses to take my stance against pre-checked cross-sales personally, then that's their mistake, and then for me, it'd be an easy decision to not do business with them.

If you're wondering why this thread was started, it was because I did NOT expect the responses that the CEO of Epoch/PayCom made.

Tony - Do you respect what your friend said to me?

"Were you not held enough as a child?"

Even if it was sarcastic, it was meant as an attack, shallow, a stupid and pointless comment.

If anything he can own up and apologize. It was childish - and yes, I was shocked that it came from a company that I overall have only ever had good respect for, and only ever heard good things of.

Matt

Read his above posts and how he ignored my pointing out his idiocy in his attempt to attack me earlier.

He's just trying to look good to 'whoever.'

I'm sure they're all shooting the shit about me.

Matt

I don't think you're aware of what's going on.

How about you reply to my reply of your post?

Matt

How about you properly read what I post first before you reply? Thanks.

And - How about you ask someone other than myself (who may or may not like me) such as EscortBiz or SleazyDream what they think if treating surfers well with high-quality content will create higher recurring.

Even if they don't want to support me in this thread or otherwise, I've read their posts and can make a pretty good estimation of what their stance is.

Matt